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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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Comments

  • #3722
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    So teachers lives are more important than mine?

    I've worked all through this pandemic.

    Someone has to or else we all die rapidly.

    No we don't


  • #3723
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    So teachers lives are more important than mine?

    I've worked all through this pandemic.

    Someone has to or else we all die rapidly.

    Yeah you keep saying this. did your workplace instigate proper ppe and protection whether you availed of it or not?

    ETA in relation to my life being more important than yours, we have been on holidays and if you were in my place with dubious badly written guidelines and being told yes it is high risk but imperative you would feel the same.


  • #3724
    Elliejo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 157 ✭✭Elliejo


    i_surge wrote: »
    So the people with intelligence are complicit in enabling the stupidity of it.

    That is exactly my problem here.

    No. The people with intelligence are going ahead with a plan that is not of their making or liking, and are going to let those who concocted it take the flak if/when it fails. It is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Teachers and school staff just can't win.


  • #3725
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Elliejo wrote: »
    No. The people with intelligence are going ahead with a plan that is not of their making or liking, and are going to let those who concocted it take the flak if/when it fails. It is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Teachers and school staff just can't win.

    I have heard that a few times to many here already. Damned if you don't try imo

    Anyway I appreciate the difficulty in what I'm saying but equally I can't fathom how strike action is such an impossible option. The plan is either tenable or it is not and I think we mostly agree there are gaping holes in it.


  • #3726
    Sunday Sunday
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭Sunday Sunday


    i_surge wrote: »
    Anything that forces a redesign of the very poor back to school plan and actually borrowed from best practices learned from the successes and failures elsewhere. Something with at least a veneer of biology to it.

    Not an exercise in semantics about pods and a national guilt trip about "having to do this and that".

    So nothing tangible or specific then, just a vague force them to redesign the plan?

    What do you think would improve the plan yourself?


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  • #3727
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Some interesting stats

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1297217292070256641


  • #3728
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    combat14 wrote: »
    hard to believe dail wont reopen till after schools now

    the whole country needs a boost of political confidence at this stage with covid numbers rocketing up again

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0822/1160727-dail-to-be-recalled/

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1297218316227026944


    should come back sooner


  • #3729
    Sunday Sunday
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭Sunday Sunday


    khalessi wrote: »
    Some interesting stats

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1297217292070256641

    Interesting, I wonder is this down to known clusters or changes in behaviour patterns as a result of reduced attitude to risk?

    Saw a lot more people meeting up the last couple of weeks.


  • #3730
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    https://twitter.com/hynesalan/status/1297103030354161664

    So the reason high risk is ignored in the Irish population not just teachers, is that they need the workforce to provide continuity of work. So even if you are high risk you are fodder for the machine in all jobs not just teaching.


  • #3731
    Scoondal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    khalessi wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1297218316227026944


    should come back sooner

    But but a few people died last week.
    You are selfish.
    We're all in this together.
    13 people positive in 7 days in Cork!!
    It's just terrible
    what kind of person are you ?
    WHERE IS YOUR MASK ?


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  • #3732
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Scoondal wrote: »
    But but a few people died last week.
    You are selfish.
    We're all in this together.
    13 people positive in 7 days in Cork!!
    It's just terrible
    what kind of person are you ?
    WHERE IS YOUR MASK ?

    What are you on about?


  • #3733
    Scoondal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Scoondal


    khalessi wrote: »
    What are you on about?

    That's what some people say. They are totally consumed with fear.
    Such people exist. I know them. I am trying to show the ridiculousness of this now. More people are dying of flu in August 2020.


  • #3734
    Sunday Sunday
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭Sunday Sunday


    Scoondal wrote: »
    That's what some people say. They are totally consumed with fear.
    Such people exist. I know them. I am trying to show the ridiculousness of this now. More people are dying of flu in August 2020.

    This year hospital admissions for flu is about 4.5k, it's around 3.5k for Covid-19 patients.

    However we've had about 11k flu cases compared to 27k covid cases. Plus the deaths from covid so far this year are over 10 times more than from flu.

    The last couple of months has seen a shift and we've had much lower deaths from covid but that could be down to the demographic of people who are contracting it now.

    There's a whole quarter of the year to go so averages might change. Unlikely that flu deaths will exceed covid when figures are taken over the course of the whole year.


  • #3735
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    khalessi wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/hynesalan/status/1297103030354161664

    So the reason high risk is ignored in the Irish population not just teachers, is that they need the workforce to provide continuity of work. So even if you are high risk you are fodder for the machine in all jobs not just teaching.

    Absenteeism is going to be rife.

    I know one secondary school who has informed parents that there may be students sent home due to no teacher or substitute being available.


  • #3736
    Oranage2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Blondini wrote: »
    Absenteeism is going to be rife.

    I know one secondary school who has informed parents that there may be students sent home due to no teacher or substitute being available.

    It will be so easy too, call the gp say you've Covid like symptoms, tell the school you're ill and waiting for the covid test.


  • #3737
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    It will be so easy too, call the gp say you've Covid like symptoms, tell the school you're ill and waiting for the covid test.

    In theory, this could be repeated ad nauseam.

    People deemed "high risk" forced to return to questionable conditions will end badly.


  • #3738
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Blondini wrote: »
    Absenteeism is going to be rife.

    I know one secondary school who has informed parents that there may be students sent home due to no teacher or substitute being available.

    My children's school told us the same


  • #3739
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Scoondal wrote: »
    That's what some people say. They are totally consumed with fear.
    Such people exist. I know them. I am trying to show the ridiculousness of this now. More people are dying of flu in August 2020.

    Great they are not on here. People re concerned but not consumed wth fear. Should i randomly add a conversation with a neighbour wih no context?
    The nunbers I am looking at involve the children as we should be told them at the NPHET meetings as part of breakdown considering kids are now involved what with schools reopening next week.


  • #3740
    isup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭isup


    Blondini wrote: »
    In theory, this could be repeated ad nauseam.

    People deemed "high risk" forced to return to questionable conditions will end badly.

    It is unacceptable that high risk teachers and high risk students are told it's ok to be indoors with 30 people for 5 hours . Not wearing masks or distancing in the primary setting . And that's not to mention family members.


  • #3741
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Sunday Sunday wrote: »
    This year hospital admissions for flu is about 4.5k, it's around 3.5k for Covid-19 patients.

    However we've had about 11k flu cases compared to 27k covid cases. Plus the deaths from covid so far this year are over 10 times more than from flu.

    The last couple of months has seen a shift and we've had much lower deaths from covid but that could be down to the demographic of people who are contracting it now.

    There's a whole quarter of the year to go so averages might change. Unlikely that flu deaths will exceed covid when figures are taken over the course of the whole year.

    Pneumonia killed well over 1000 this year in Ireland, as it does every year

    Which in most cases started as a flu

    Your figures ignore that


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  • #3742
    Millem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    We got information from my son’s primary school on Friday. There will be staggered start/end times and staggered breaks.
    I presume kids will lose 30 mins of the school day as I am guessing the teachers’ day doesn’t extend.

    Looking closely at what is happening in Berlin at the minute.


  • #3743
    youandme13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 372 ✭✭youandme13


    Millem wrote: »
    We got information from my son’s primary school on Friday. There will be staggered start/end times and staggered breaks.
    I presume kids will lose 30 mins of the school day as I am guessing the teachers’ day doesn’t extend.

    Looking closely at what is happening in Berlin at the minute.


    My sons school the same got an email last week. Staggered times by only 10 mins (arrive either 830-840 or 840-850) which is nothing considering there are nearly 2 thousand children in his primary school. Apart from that, its leave the books in school no mention of uniforms / tracksuits either.


  • #3744
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    smellyoldboot wrote: »
    Our one put up "work" once a week(with a note saying don't do it if you don't want to) , often at lunchtime on Monday and answered emails erratically; ie we made sure to contact during school hours only, you might get a reply at 11 at night or the day after if at all.

    The work was done, never seen, no contact beyond those erratic, curt email replies.

    Thankfully the SNA at least kept in contact with regular zoom calls.

    Not all of your profession always paint themselves in a good light tbh.

    There’s a poster on the thread who openly admitted that she did nothing during the lockdown. She blamed the other teachers on her staff. I suggest you have this conversation with her.


  • #3745
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Still haven't got an answer from anyone on why a teacher's strike is a bad idea, and what the fears/concerns are over that. Could anyone answer?

    Here's a link to the home education network addressing this sh*tshow in regards to lack of remote learning plan:
    https://www.henireland.org/what-is-home-education/education_options/

    "Here at HEN we have seen a significant increase in enquiries about home-education both from a legal and practical perspective. Whilst we are unable to offer legal or medical advice regarding the decision to return to school, we can offer some guidance and support. If you are concerned about returning to school, we suggest the following:

    COMMUNICATE
    If you haven’t already done so, contact your school to express your concerns and find out what new measures will be in place. Most schools seem to be informing parents of these measures and requirements in the run-up to the commencement of term. This information may be sufficient to put your mind at rest.

    REQUEST ONLINE LEARNING
    While the Department of Education have put much emphasis on social distancing and hygiene measures in schools, there has been little talk of online learning as an option for the school year ahead. Many schools managed to get online learning up and running to some degree during lock-down; this may still be an option for some children and, presumably will be implemented in the event of school closures or another lockdown.
    You may be able to come to an arrangement with your school/principal. Failing that, contact the Department of Education and make your requirements known; if enough people do so, the need for online learning will have to be addressed.

    ‘Schools will have the discretion to manage and redistribute their teaching support resources in order to best
    meet the learning needs of students with complex medical needs who may not be able to return to school at
    the end of August because public health guidelines indicate they are at “very high risk”’ – Citizens Information

    Our advice for parents who ultimately want their children to return to school, is to first and foremost work with the school and ask them what support they can provide your child during this time."

    I have reached out to my kids principal to ask what support we can have if we do not send our children back. Crickets so far.


  • #3746
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    irishblessing wrote: »

    I have reached out to my kids principal to ask what support we can have if we do not send our children back. Crickets so far.

    Unless they fall into the extremely narrow 'very high risk' category then you can expect ZERO support. All staff and students in the 'high risk' category are expected to attend as per normal.


  • #3747
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    irishblessing wrote: »
    Still haven't got an answer from anyone on why a teacher's strike is a bad idea, and what the fears/concerns are over that. Could anyone answer?

    Here's a link to the home education network addressing this sh*tshow in regards to lack of remote learning plan:
    https://www.henireland.org/what-is-home-education/education_options/

    "Here at HEN we have seen a significant increase in enquiries about home-education both from a legal and practical perspective. Whilst we are unable to offer legal or medical advice regarding the decision to return to school, we can offer some guidance and support. If you are concerned about returning to school, we suggest the following:

    COMMUNICATE
    If you haven’t already done so, contact your school to express your concerns and find out what new measures will be in place. Most schools seem to be informing parents of these measures and requirements in the run-up to the commencement of term. This information may be sufficient to put your mind at rest.

    REQUEST ONLINE LEARNING
    While the Department of Education have put much emphasis on social distancing and hygiene measures in schools, there has been little talk of online learning as an option for the school year ahead. Many schools managed to get online learning up and running to some degree during lock-down; this may still be an option for some children and, presumably will be implemented in the event of school closures or another lockdown.
    You may be able to come to an arrangement with your school/principal. Failing that, contact the Department of Education and make your requirements known; if enough people do so, the need for online learning will have to be addressed.

    ‘Schools will have the discretion to manage and redistribute their teaching support resources in order to best
    meet the learning needs of students with complex medical needs who may not be able to return to school at
    the end of August because public health guidelines indicate they are at “very high risk”’ – Citizens Information

    Our advice for parents who ultimately want their children to return to school, is to first and foremost work with the school and ask them what support they can provide your child during this time."

    I have reached out to my kids principal to ask what support we can have if we do not send our children back. Crickets so far.


    According to dep guidelines unless your child falls into the very high risk category- which is quite narrowly defined then there is no support available as those in the at risk and at high risks are expected to return to school.

    I also think the last statement by the homeschool network is slightly misleading - schools are expected to accommodate children from the at very high risk group from existing resources. Which may affect any accommodation that the school can effectively offer. Essentially the same staffing level but an additional cohort of children to accommodate.


  • #3748
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    irishblessing wrote: »
    Still haven't got an answer from anyone on why a teacher's strike is a bad idea, and what the fears/concerns are over that. Could anyone answer?
    Why do you imagine that withdrawal of labour is a good thing here? It shows a lack of ability to communicate effectively and an utter failure to provide input. In terms of what everyone is now supposed to be working on, it's a real dereliction of duty. Teacher strikes tend to be bad for them as it pits them against the rest of the country, especially parents.


  • #3749
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    irishblessing wrote: »
    I have reached out to my kids principal to ask what support we can have if we do not send our children back. Crickets so far.

    Schools have been told to prepare for a full reopening. If you choose to keep your children at home ( unless they are in the very high risk category) their education becomes your responsibility. You have to register with Tusla for homeschooling and communicate with them , not the school.


  • #3750
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    Ryan, WHO, on school reopening. Maybe they'll listen to him?
    "but wearing a mask is not an alternative to physical distancing, it's not an alternative to hand washing, & it's not an alternative to decompressing class size."

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GHS/status/1296890031110488067


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  • #3751
    Millem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    youandme13 wrote: »
    My sons school the same got an email last week. Staggered times by only 10 mins (arrive either 830-840 or 840-850) which is nothing considering there are nearly 2 thousand children in his primary school. Apart from that, its leave the books in school no mention of uniforms / tracksuits either.

    Ours is 8.45 or 9.00 or 9.15 for the first few days then it changes again !!!

    We were told rotate between uniform and tracksuit if you can’t wash/dry.

    Also need school pencil case. We will be given a list next week on what to buy.
    We usually just pay money to the school for stationary.


This discussion has been closed.
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