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Masks

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Comments

  • #8072
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    I am extremly dubious that what you say is true.

    Regardless the real originating culprit... are the people not wearing masks in breach of the law of the land.
    If someone reports to a bus driver that a passenger is smoking or drinking or doing drugs on a bus, it takes some degree of jobsworth braindead myopia to blame the person making the report.
    Ditto for not wearing a mask.

    There are no medical exemptions for smoking or doing drugs on buses. How is a bus driver or passenger supposed to know who's medically exempt. The law says masks are mandatory on public transport and in shops unless you have a medical exemption or are under 13.

    There are no exemptions for smoking or doing drugs. Also some bus drivers will tell the passenger that they have to point the person out who is smoking to the guards when they arrive. They are not allowed get out of the cab.


  • #8073
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    The driver and shop staff have the right to refuse service.

    Nor are they allowed discriminate based on disability


  • #8074
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    As a shop owner has no basis for judging a persons medical condition I would have thought it down to the non-mask wearer to demonstrate their exemption.


  • #8075
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,083 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    GT89 wrote: »
    Nor are they allowed discriminate based on disability

    They dont just let anyone in with a dog though. So obviously they are allowed to apply rules.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #8076
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    They dont just let anyone in with a dog though. So obviously they are allowed to apply rules.

    Not if it's a guide dog. They are allowed apply rules so long as they don't discriminate. They can't refuse people with mecical exemption for not wearing a mask for the same reason they can't say travellers are not allowed in.


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  • #8077
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,083 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    GT89 wrote: »
    Not if it's a guide dog. They are allowed apply rules so long as they don't discriminate. They can't people with mecical exemptions to wearing a mask are not allowed in for the same reason they can't say travellers are not allowed in.

    How do you know its a guide dog... You are making a determination there and applying a rule.
    A medical exemption from wearing a masks isnt a disability strictly speaking so may not be grounds for discrimination challenge.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #8078
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    How do you know its a guide dog... You are making a determination there.

    They are clearly marked. Are you suggesting that people exempt from wearing masks wear a badge or have a bell around their neck.


  • #8079
    timetogo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 892 ✭✭✭timetogo1


    No: I don't care enough
    GT89 wrote: »
    Not if it's a guide dog. They are allowed apply rules so long as they don't discriminate. They can't people with mecical exemptions to wearing a mask are not allowed in for the same reason they can't say travellers are not allowed in.

    Is that true though? If masks are to reduce risk to others (as the government and health officials say) and you can't wear one, you're a bigger risk to me than a mask wearer. So if I had a shop I wouldn't want you near me as I've severe asthma (but able to wear a mask to protect others).


  • #8080
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,083 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    GT89 wrote: »
    They are clearly marked. Are you suggesting that people exempt from wearing masks wear a badge or have a bell around their neck.

    Are you???

    Any dog can have a bell on it or a badge... still not an answer really. You are making a decision.

    Some sort of more transparent mechanism for exemptions may be needed if there is widespread abuse of the rules.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #8081
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes: homemade
    GT89 wrote: »
    Nor are they allowed discriminate based on ildisability

    No. And nobody said they should. It's easy for somebody to show they are exempt.

    But you keep fighting the fight, good man. Those of us who give a toss about others will just put up with the mild inconvenience of a face covering. You just want to argue for the sake of it. And bigger fools us for falling for it.


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  • #8082
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,243 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes: homemade
    timetogo1 wrote: »
    Is that true though? If masks are to reduce risk (as the government and doctors say) and you can't wear one, you're a bigger risk to me than a mask wearer. So if I had a shop I wouldn't want you near me as I've severe asthma (but able to wear a mask to protect others).

    Don't get caught up in his trawling for exemptions. Those who are exempt are a small minority and any people I know who are will wear a visor as opposed to a cloth covering. There will be people with disabilities who would not be able to wear a covering but we will manage with that.


  • #8083
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,594 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Yes: homemade
    bodhrandude wrote: »
    What I want to know is why masks are not being issued free by our government.

    Food isn't being issued for free either.

    Nor is clothing.


  • #8084
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Sanitiser isn’t being issued for free.

    Condoms which reduce the spread of other infections aren’t free either.

    Why would anyone think that masks could be in any way free for the general public.


  • #8085
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,083 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Sanitiser isn’t being issued for free.
    Condoms which reduce the spread of other infections aren’t free either.
    Why would anyone think that masks could be in any way free for the general public.

    Free mask distribution has happened in several other countries / cities / transport operators so its not unprecedented.

    Some countries set a maximum price in pharmacies.

    Plus shops hospitals etc have public sanitiser dispenser units.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #8086
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Free mask distribution has happened in several other countries / cities / transport operators so its not unprecedented.

    Some countries set a maximum price in pharmacies.

    Has it happened in first world countries where mask availability is good or in developing countries? I think it would be a good idea but am wary of how long it is sustainable for and also, I think that even when the virus is controlled, mask usage should become more widespread on public transport etc to reduce other virus transmissions.

    Definitely a good idea having a rrp for the price as I have seen some crazy prices.


  • #8087
    bodhrandude
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,904 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    Yes: surgical
    joeguevara wrote: »
    Sanitiser isn’t being issued for free.

    Condoms which reduce the spread of other infections aren’t free either.

    Why would anyone think that masks could be in any way free for the general public.

    Yes it is, push button ones in shops, well i haven't seen a coin slot in one yet.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • #8088
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    bodhrandude wrote: »
    Yes it is, push button ones in shops, well i haven't seen a coin slot in one yet.

    I meant free personal bottles but yes I take your point.


  • #8089
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,083 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Has it happened in first world countries where mask availability is good or in developing countries? I think it would be a good idea but am wary of how long it is sustainable for and also, I think that even when the virus is controlled, mask usage should become more widespread on public transport etc to reduce other virus transmissions.
    Definitely a good idea having a rrp for the price as I have seen some crazy prices.

    Mexico, Turkey, Washington State (to those on welfare), train operator in Sweden... there may be more but they were first search hits.

    I thought we should have done something similar to Washington State eg free pack when medical card prescription dispensed. As a sort of kickstarter / promo campaign.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #8090
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Mexico, Turkey, Washington State (to those on welfare), train operator in Sweden... there may be more but they were first search hits.

    I thought we should have done something similar to Washington State eg free pack when medical card prescription dispensed. As a sort of kickstarter / promo campaign.

    That would have been a great idea.


  • #8091
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,202 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    No: other
    Luxembourg sent out a pack of 5 disposable masks in the post to every family. I've seen the likes of Spain and Italy giving them out at busy transport hubs. Good idea to start the habit imo.


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  • #8092
    bodhrandude
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,904 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    Yes: surgical
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Mexico, Turkey, Washington State (to those on welfare), train operator in Sweden... there may be more but they were first search hits.

    I thought we should have done something similar to Washington State eg free pack when medical card prescription dispensed. As a sort of kickstarter / promo campaign.

    Add to that list quite a few Asian countries, South Korea, Singapore, China and Taiwan among others.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • #8093
    SchrodingersCat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭SchrodingersCat


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I've a letter exempting me from 'masking up'. The Gardai have zero right to question me on my health, they can ask me to wear one, i'll show them my exemption letter. Although I haven't seen a garda on a bus yet, and i've been getting 4 a day since the whole thing started. I doubt they're gonna start swarming buses now.

    If this is a letter from your mother it will hold no water with the Gardai.


  • #8094
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Anyone that thinks Gardai have zero right to question you on your health is obviously getting their information from an armchair expert. Specific exemption letters will be requried to be provided to a person who asks such as secuirty, shopkeeper, owner of premises etc. If they are not satisfied and you continue to refuse to wear a mask or leave the premises the Gardai can be contacted. As breach of the Legislation is a criminal offence, the Garda have full examination and inspection rights. Equality Law or Data Protection does not trump that. Proof will be required as to the physical or emotional disability that prohibits the person from wearing a mask. Any false or misleading information is of itself a separate offence. There appears to be one serious loop hole for all of this but Ill be fcucked if Im going to give anyone that little piece of advice.


  • #8095
    ginoginelli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    Yes: surgical
    Other countries are issuing a exempt card for people who cant wear one. They can simply hang it around their neck when travelling.

    Hopefully bring it in here.


  • #8096
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    ginoginelli wrote: »
    Other countries are issuing a exempt card for people who cant wear one. They can simply hang it around their neck when travelling.

    Hopefully bring it in here.

    I have seen something like that in the UK but the card is created by a Hidden Disability charity rather with a sunflower lanyard rather than an official one and there is no requirement to get one. I haven't seen any official state card and don't know if appetite would be there.


  • #8097
    Seanachai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Fair points re: the process side of things.

    For a lot of people, it's an inconvenience, but some gentle 'nudges' and social peer pressure will be enough for them to get on board.

    But there's a certain cohort who do need 'manners' put on them and unfortunately they don't respond to the above gentle measures and that's why law enforcement and a strong response from retailers is needed.

    That cohort are certain to be found in the ranks of the non-mask wearers.
    They are the kind of people who think rules don't apply to them, whether it's masks, litter laws, parking laws, driving laws, dog fouling laws, laws on where you can smoke etc
    And if that cohort are let away with it, you'll gradually see the other 'lot of people' come to the conclusion they shouldn't bother either.

    I wear a mask in the supermarket only because I think I'd be on shakey ground legally if a fine was imposed, I'll wait and see if any challenges arise. I don't think everybody who has issues with mask wearing is just being anti-social. I think they're a folly and also dehumanising, I hate litter and I've posted on here before about the dogs**t situation in Dublin.


  • #8098
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-face-masks-increase-risk-infection-doctor-jenny-harries-a9396811.html?fbclid=IwAR0xh1f5j5WuZub64B88E8rdPuBLP-ZOukHVwoyq5Q7llQVXXzEQjusHGIw

    Masks may actually increase risk of infection.


  • #8099
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-face-masks-increase-risk-infection-doctor-jenny-harries-a9396811.html?fbclid=IwAR0xh1f5j5WuZub64B88E8rdPuBLP-ZOukHVwoyq5Q7llQVXXzEQjusHGIw

    Masks may actually increase risk of infection.

    That was from the 12th of March.


  • #8100
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    No: other
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-face-masks-increase-risk-infection-doctor-jenny-harries-a9396811.html?fbclid=IwAR0xh1f5j5WuZub64B88E8rdPuBLP-ZOukHVwoyq5Q7llQVXXzEQjusHGIw

    Masks may actually increase risk of infection.


    Masks may actually increase risk of infection if not used properly is what the article says.

    Why leave out that important detail from your comment?


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  • #8101
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Sconsey wrote: »
    Masks may actually increase risk of infection if not used properly is what the article says.

    Why leave out that important detail from your comment?

    See this shows that posters such as the person who quoted this are disingenuous.

    Firstly it is from 12th March when advice has changed due to knowing more.

    But a couple of points:
      it outlined that it was based on people only having one mask and not washing it
        or people leaving it down on infected surfaces
          or people who dont wash their hands and handle the mask and then put it on again.

          It basically is an article that says 'if you are a grubby fcucker who doesn't wash their hands and reuses masks over and over and over, put them down on dirty surfaces etc then they can cause infection'. This is not what was put forward by the poster. Next he will say not to use condoms (if you are going to use the same one over and over and over - this bit in brackets won't be mentioned).


        This discussion has been closed.
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