How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

kingbhome · 12-08-2020 07:23PM

Can someone give me an update on where we're at with kids going back to school. What measures will be in place and what happens if a teacher suspects a child to have covid19 symptoms.

Stevieluvsye · 12-08-2020 07:33PM

kingbhome wrote: »

Can someone give me an update on where we're at with kids going back to school. What measures will be in place and what happens if a teacher suspects a child to have covid19 symptoms.

If you have kids you must be one fcuking laid back person

lulublue22 · 12-08-2020 07:38PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The DES are making a distinction between " high risk" and "very high risk." For staff, you must be "very high risk" to work from home, so I'd imagine for children who are to stay at home and receive some form of home tuition ( by who?) it's the same.

They are working off HSE guidelines which are at risk , high risk and very high risk. The gov have provided for children in the 3rd category to be catered for at local level by existing staff. As of now there is no provision other than a return to school for the at risk and high risk groups.

Murple · 12-08-2020 07:49PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

They are working off HSE guidelines which are at risk , high risk and very high risk. The gov have provided for children in the 3rd category to be catered for at local level by existing staff. As of now there is no provision other than a return to school for the at risk and high risk groups.

Nit picking I know but the government have not provided for children in the 3rd category. They have instructed that a group of students with specific needs, a group that didn’t exist before, to be catered for from existing staff. They haven’t seen how many children are involved, how many are in each school, what their individual requirements are etc. but just told schools deal with it. That is not ‘providing for‘ in my book.

Previous to this, students with long term illnesses or conditions that prevented them attending school could apply for home tuition. That to me is providing for. Why is this not happening now?

lulublue22 · 12-08-2020 07:56PM

Murple wrote: »

Nit picking I know but the government have not provided for children in the 3rd category. They have instructed that a group of students with specific needs, a group that didn’t exist before, to be catered for from existing staff. They haven’t seen how many children are involved, how many are in each school, what their individual requirements are etc. but just told schools deal with it. That is not ‘providing for‘ in my book.

Previous to this, students with long term illnesses or conditions that prevented them attending school could apply for home tuition. That to me is providing for. Why is this not happening now?

Definitely nit picking

Yes it will be an absolute CF. Existing staff I would hazard a guess will be SET. So SET will have their regular children , substitution for absent class teachers and some form of online learning for children in the very high risk category. The net result is that SET will be pulled and dragged and with no one getting the educational input they need. I would also think that the gov are not providing for these children under home tuition as only for covid they would be able to attend school.

kingbhome · 12-08-2020 08:14PM

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

If you have kids you must be one fcuking laid back person

I do however I have switched off all this covid19 stuff for awhile as I had other personal issues to deal with. Now I'm needing an update on it to know what is going on with it.

Stevieluvsye · 12-08-2020 08:16PM

kingbhome wrote: »

I do however I have switched off all this covid19 stuff for awhile as I had other personal issues to deal with. Now I'm needing an update on it to know what is going on with it.

I'd suggest contacting the school to see what protocols they have put in place and any other questions concerning you. Do not take advice off anyone here anyway as i don't think it's a one size fits all approach

kingbhome · 12-08-2020 08:23PM

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

I'd suggest contacting the school to see what protocols they have put in place and any other questions concerning you. Do not take advice off anyone here anyway as i don't think it's a one size fits all approach

Is there not guidelines for nationwide?.

Stevieluvsye · 12-08-2020 08:26PM

kingbhome wrote: »

Is there not guidelines for nationwide?.

I think there are, think i saw them here on one of the many threads, i'm sure someone else will share it for you or maybe google it

Queried · 12-08-2020 08:35PM

kingbhome wrote: »

Is there not guidelines for nationwide?.

Hey kingbhome,

All the documentation that the government have published regarding the reopening of schools can be found at the link below. Hope that helps!

https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/a128d-back-to-school/?referrer=http://www.gov.ie/backtoschool/

morebabies · 12-08-2020 08:50PM

"Asked if schools will have to shut once a Covid-19 case has been diagnosed, Dr. Glynn said the HSE will do a risk assessment and contact trace.

"There will not be a blanket approach. It may need to happen that a school closes, but the hope would be that in the main, it would only be children in close contacts with a case who might have to restrict their movements." "

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2020/08/12/clusters-virtually-inevitable-when-schools-reopen-acting-cmo/

As someone in a much earlier post pointed out, tracing will be almost impossible once the schools reopen. My 4 children (if I send them back) will be mixing with a total of 1200 children and teachers , you'll have their family members, their workplaces, their siblings potentially in other large schools. And I live in a semi rural area.

Bananaleaf · 12-08-2020 09:46PM

kingbhome wrote: »

Can someone give me an update on where we're at with kids going back to school. What measures will be in place and what happens if a teacher suspects a child to have covid19 symptoms.

I guess you are wondering about the specific issue you had a while back of someone taking your child's temperature without you being present or "pulling them aside" if they have "any suspicion of anything"

You wont find answers to either of these in the government-issued guidelines. They are not specific enough for that so you will have to contact your child's school directly and see what their policy on it will be.

For what its worth re: the temp checking I would say that if your child is in a very large school they won't be temp checking. The cost of buying the machines would be too high. Also they are not thermometers or anything like that, they are contact less and scan the forehead to detect temp.

i_surge · 12-08-2020 10:05PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

The cost of buying the machines would be too high..

The human cost of not buying them is higher.

wirelessdude01 · 12-08-2020 10:17PM

i_surge wrote: »

The human cost of not buying them is higher.

In case you hadn't realised, the government/department don't care.

Bananaleaf · 12-08-2020 10:38PM

i_surge wrote: »

The human cost of not buying them is higher.

Oh I couldn't agree more. But I'm just being realistic.

I also remember that in the case of the creche in Navan, the kids who ended up having Covid didn't have a temperature out of the norm according to their temp checker.

I thought to myself when I heard that, that schools (especially big ones who would have to purchase quite a few units) are not going to spend on something that they believe might not even be that effective.

i_surge · 12-08-2020 10:39PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

In case you hadn't realised, the government/department don't care.

So go on strike and don't be complicit.

History Queen · 12-08-2020 10:46PM

i_surge wrote: »

So go on strike and don't be complicit.

Wait... what?! Teachers being urged to go on strike now??? Mind blown.

Bananaleaf · 12-08-2020 10:49PM

i_surge wrote: »

So go on strike and don't be complicit.

See, this is difficult. I'm not saying you don't have a point, but at this moment in time, teachers can't really strike because none of us know what we are striking against.

One way of looking at the roadmap is that it is sh1te. Another way of looking at it (if you're in government) is that it's a work of art - it is so spectacularly vague that there isn't a teacher in the country that knows exactly what they are going back to (that I'm aware of) until their principal tells them.

Schools are so so so different, that a one-size fits all approach is never going to work for schools UNLESS that one-size fits all is the implementation of the 2m/1m distance. They can't offer this so striking will ultimately get us nowhere.

Bad and all as the roadmap is, it is already giving us everything the government can afford (probably moreso in terms of time/space than money, but possibly both)

Bananaleaf · 12-08-2020 10:50PM

History Queen wrote: »

Wait... what?! Teachers being urged to go on strike now??? Mind blown.

And after a 6 month holiday no less :pac:

Just joking - if we can't laugh we'll just be crying!!

i_surge · 12-08-2020 10:50PM

History Queen wrote: »

Wait... what?! Teachers being urged to go on strike now??? Mind blown.

If the working conditions aren't safe, why not?

i_surge · 12-08-2020 10:53PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

See, this is difficult. I'm not saying you don't have a point, but at this moment in time, teachers can't really strike because none of us know what we are striking against.

One way of looking at the roadmap is that it is sh1te. Another way of looking at it (if you're in government) is that it's a work of art - it is so spectacularly vague that there isn't a teacher in the country that knows exactly what they are going back to (that I'm aware of) until their principal tells them.

Schools are so so so different, that a one-size fits all approach is never going to work for schools UNLESS that one-size fits all is the implementation of the 2m/1m distance. They can't offer this so striking will ultimately get us nowhere.

Bad and all as the roadmap is, it is already giving us everything the government can afford (probably moreso in terms of time/space than money, but possibly both)

Couldn't disagree more. Every school is unique, that is why you need a set of sound principles to work to and design around. That is the job of the HSE and DOE. What I have heard here is a series of contradictions and obvious pitfalls in response to the "artful" vagueness.

Not acceptable.

History Queen · 12-08-2020 10:53PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

And after a 6 month holiday no less :pac:

Just joking - if we can't laugh we'll just be crying!!

Ya I know Bananaleaf! Sorry @isurge, I wasn't digging at you at all, but after months of being treated appallingly by some, and years of being sneered at when we did take up the picket line, I can't help but wonder what the media spin and public reaction to a strike would be.

wirelessdude01 · 12-08-2020 10:54PM

i_surge wrote: »

So go on strike and don't be complicit.

As if. Parents need to be the ones making the noise. We don't get listened to.

Bananaleaf · 12-08-2020 11:10PM

i_surge wrote: »

Couldn't disagree more. Every school is unique, that is why you need a set of sound principles to work to and design around. That is the job of the HSE and DOE. What I have heard here is a series of contradictions and obvious pitfalls in response to the "artful" vagueness.

Not acceptable.

You're right it isnt acceptable. I agree with you. But if you look at all of the pointing out of contradictions and pitfalls, you will see that they are all things that would be solved or at least helped if social distancing could be practiced.

This is essentially the problem. All the other vagueness only exists because they can't provide us the means to social distance. Something that they themselves outline on page 12 of the post primary roadmap as being the key to keeping Covid out of schools. Another contradiction, I know.

i_surge · 12-08-2020 11:16PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

You're right it isnt acceptable. I agree with you. But if you look at all of the pointing out of contradictions and pitfalls, you will see that they are all things that would be solved or at least helped if social distancing could be practiced.

This is essentially the problem. All the other vagueness only exists because they can't provide us the means to social distance. Something that they themselves outline on page 12 of the post primary roadmap as being the key to keeping Covid out of schools. Another contradiction, I know.

Some form of rotation to limit numbers? Huge lack of creativity going on here.

Assign 1 weeks of homework, self directed learning and then 1 week class presence??? That would half the risk. Might drive something that looks like a true education, self directed work is the one biggest skills for life.

There are always solutions that don't involve accepting bull****.

Bananaleaf · 12-08-2020 11:17PM

Also, I'm not saying that this is what should inform our decision to strike or not, but there are quite a number of people who believe that the children in schools are not at any risk and that teachers just need to rise to the occasion just like the nurses, bus drivers, gardai and everyone else who kept working did. Some with that view are teachers themselves.

And then it comes back to this - what are we actually going to strike for? The only think that we know for sure will work is the one thing they can't give us.

i_surge · 12-08-2020 11:19PM

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Also, I'm not saying that this is what should inform our decision to strike or not, but there are quite a number of people who believe that the children in schools are not at any risk and that teachers just need to rise to the occasion just like the nurses, bus drivers, gardai and everyone else who kept working did. Some with that view are teachers themselves.

And then it comes back to this - what are we actually going to strike for? The only think that we know for sure will work is the one thing they can't give us.

That is the problem, science isn't driving decision making...there is a spectrum of belief from the true to the simply false.

Bobtheman · 12-08-2020 11:26PM

I have utter faith in the government. After all we have a great health service and decent housing.
It's just a dirty lie that leo said the LC would go ahead by hook or by crook as normal in June.
It's a dirty lie that Joe McHugh's plan to have the leaving in August was also thrown out.

It's also a total untruth that only 4 weeks was given for a total refit.
Jesus these tablets are great....

Bananaleaf · 12-08-2020 11:27PM

i_surge wrote: »

Some form of rotation to limit numbers? Huge lack of creativity going on here.

Assign 1 weeks of homework, self directed learning and then 1 week class presence??? That would half the risk. Might drive something that looks like a true education, self directed work is the one biggest skills for life.

There are always solutions that don't involve accepting bull****.

Now, this is interesting. I could be very wrong on this, but as far as I am aware, schools have the power to make those local arrangements. I say this because I know of one school who is doing some form of blended learning. Can detail the specifics if anyone interested, but to keep this as concise as possible I won't for now.

The only reason I can think of re: why this is not a nationwide plan is that I'm guessing the boards of management would have to be in agreement (parents are on BOMs so they would have a say) that this model would work.

Thing about it is though, I'd imagine that if it is possible for a school to do half and half, but some just don't, the whole country isn't going to go out on strike because some teachers somewhere are not happy with the policy that their school designed.

Full disclosure: I'm just a teacher, have no management or post holding experience (don't ever want it either!) so I'm just going on the roadmap and my experience of seeing other circulars/policies being implemented over the years.

jrosen · 12-08-2020 11:27PM

Not everyone with covid presents with a temp and not everyone with a temp has covid. I cant see there being mass temp checks at school. Its time consuming plus it puts the responsibly on the teacher and the school to ok a student to be there. From a liability perspective alone I think its a bad idea.

There was never going to be a one size fits all and when suggestions were made weeks back that individual schools/staff come up with plans as they knew their schools and students best it was shot down because the dept had to make the decisions.

Schools will go back with all pupils because there is no plan B.

This has been going on since March. Like predicted it would all be last minute, last minute plans and last minute issues.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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