How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

average_runner

jrosen wrote: »

Schools need to reach out to parents to let them know what their school is doing, what they can do within the guidelines. Some schools can adhere better than others simply down to size/school building etc.

Then parents can make a decision on what they want to do, send their kids back or not. The guidelines have been published and unless parents are sticking their head under a rock they cant for one second have thought their kids were covid safe in schools. Sure we are not covid safe anywhere.

Each school can only do so much.

Most of the schools where we are have reached out already and told the parents the plans.


Schools are limited to what they can do, but kids education need to go ahead also. This will be a testing time for all and a learning one

Schools could adapt to teaching kids just maths and english, everything else is minor. So maybe do half days on those subjects

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

Schools could adapt to teaching kids just maths and english, everything else is minor. So maybe do half days on those subjects

I know some schools where the opposite approach is being considered. No English or Maths until after Halloween.

Bananaleaf

Stateofyou wrote: »

I have actually read them many times and downloaded them and it remains a permanently open doc on my laptop, but thanks. Not sure what reason you have to comment as such.

Apologies. I assumed you hadn't read them. My mistake.

I only meant my comment as an explanation as to why I wasn't immediately linking them to my post. It honestly wasn't meant to be snide and I wasn't offering to link the document as some kind of a passive agressive gesture. I totally understand that many wouldn't have the time to read 40odd pages of the document and that doesn't mean they don't care about their children, it just means they are busy.

I can't make too much comment about why schools haven't been in touch with parents as my own principal is yet to even be in contact with me! But, to be fair to my principal he is a bloody hard worker and we all know that the only reason he isn't telling us what is going on is because he hasn't yet found a workable solution himself.

I totally understand your frustration. I think though if schools were honest with parents, there would be a rebellion! That is not to say there is immediate cause for one, it just means that they aren't sure how it is going to work. The truth is that we won't really know for sure until we are all back.

Once again I apologise if I made you feel like I was attacking you. There have definitely been some hairy moments on this thread but there have also been great examples of parents and teachers coming together to discuss common concerns. I wouldn't wish to discourage anyone from posting in here because I think we are all really going to need one another in the coming weeks.

Stateofyou

average_runner wrote: »

Most of the schools where we are have reached out already and told the parents the plans.


Schools are limited to what they can do, but kids education need to go ahead also. This will be a testing time for all and a learning one

Schools could adapt to teaching kids just maths and english, everything else is minor. So maybe do half days on those subjects

According only to parents I have spoken to, those schools in my area have not yet communicated whatsoever. The overwhelming response on this thread is the same.

Yes, kids education needs to go ahead. So where are the plans from DES to provide an online/tv curriculum for students. This is a massive, massive fail.

Stateofyou

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Apologies. I assumed you hadn't read them. My mistake.

I only meant my comment as an explanation as to why I wasn't immediately linking them to my post. It honestly wasn't meant to be snide and I wasn't offering to link the document as some kind of a passive agressive gesture. I totally understand that many wouldn't have the time to read 40odd pages of the document and that doesn't mean they don't care about their children, it just means they are busy.

I can't make too much comment about why schools haven't been in touch with parents as my own principal is yet to even be in contact with me! But, to be fair to my principal he is a bloody hard worker and we all know that the only reason he isn't telling us what is going on is because he hasn't yet found a workable solution himself.

I totally understand your frustration. I think though if schools were honest with parents, there would be a rebellion! That is not to say there is immediate cause for one, it just means that they aren't sure how it is going to work. The truth is that we won't really know for sure until we are all back.

Once again I apologise if I made you feel like I was attacking you. There have definitely been some hairy moments on this thread but there have also been great examples of parents and teachers coming together to discuss common concerns. I wouldn't wish to discourage anyone from posting in here because I think we are all really going to need one another in the coming weeks.

No worries, appreciate the reply!
I think what we do need here may well be a rebellion though. Teachers need to be safe. Our children need to be safe. None of us want to be or have our kids be the guinea pigs. We've seen examples of what works and what doesn't all over the world now. We know better and it's a disgrace that the DES/gov't haven't done better.
I would love nothing more than to see parents and teachers and schools sticking together on this and demanding better for us all!

Bananaleaf

This is a version of what I sent to TUI and dept of Ed. I also sent this to my principal in a more specific format, which was with my own school situation in mind. It essentially highlights a lot of the questions that the roadmap brought up for me. As I said, the most commitment I got from anyone was "that's noted, thanks."

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114169400&postcount=26

Edited to add that this is post primary.

ginoginelli

I really feel this is like masks all over again. We are being straight up lied to. We are being told that kids are not as infectious as adults and schools are a low risk when in fact there are recent studies showing the exact opposite to be true.

The whole plan and approach to this is a complete and utter shambles.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I know some schools where the opposite approach is being considered. No English or Maths until after Halloween.

What will they do till then?

wirelessdude01

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I totally understand your frustration. I think though if schools were honest with parents, there would be a rebellion! That is not to say there is immediate cause for one, it just means that they aren't sure how it is going to work. The truth is that we won't really know for sure until we are all back.

.

It will take a very brave school to come right out and say what we all feel, this is utter gutter. Take for instance primary school one in a parish comes out and says we can't do x, y and z. School two in the same parish spies a chance to get some new enrollments and makes some announcement along of the lines that we think the guidelines are great and we are open for business. Both schools are open but one is taking advantage of the honesty of the other. This is exactly what would happen.

average_runner

ginoginelli wrote: »

I really feel this is like masks all over again. We are being straight up lied to. We are being told that kids are not as infectious as adults and schools are a low risk when in fact there are recent studies showing the exact opposite to be true.

The whole plan and approach to this is a complete and utter shambles.

Depends what you read. No one really knows. Schools in Germany had more issues with the teachers than kids.


Time will tell

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

What will they do till then?

All the other subjects that pretty much got ignored during lockdown. Department have expressly asked for additional emphasis to be put on for example SPHE and PE.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

It will take a very brave school to come right out and say what we all feel, this is utter gutter. Take for instance primary school one in a parish comes out and says we can't do x, y and z. School two in the same parish spies a chance to get some new enrollments and makes some announcement along of the lines that we think the guidelines are great and we are open for business. Both schools are open but one is taking advantage of the honesty of the other. This is exactly what would happen.

But if school 2 can do it and can take more, then that is a good thing. School 1 might be able to cope with a lower number?

jrosen

ginoginelli wrote: »

I really feel this is like masks all over again. We are being straight up lied to. We are being told that kids are not as infectious as adults and schools are a low risk when in fact there are recent studies showing the exact opposite to be true.

The whole plan and approach to this is a complete and utter shambles.

Its an ever evolving situation.

Bananaleaf

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

It will take a very brave school to come right out and say what we all feel, this is utter gutter. Take for instance primary school one in a parish comes out and says we can't do x, y and z. School two in the same parish spies a chance to get some new enrollments and makes some announcement along of the lines that we think the guidelines are great and we are open for business. Both schools are open but one is taking advantage of the honesty of the other. This is exactly what would happen.

It takes a very brave principal to do anything nowadays. There is a reason a lot of them are being appointed at a younger age and with less experience in management roles than in you would have seen before...

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

All the other subjects that pretty much got ignored during lockdown. Department have expressly asked for additional emphasis to be put on for example SPHE and PE.

PE is important but I find most teachers don't have a clue when it comes to it in my daughters school.



I can understand SPHE approach, our kids schools are going to run through march-june of last term in Sept and then move on from there.

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

But if school 2 can do it and can take more, then that is a good thing. School 1 might be able to cope with a lower number?

School one could cope fine but are being honest about issues. School two are just being opportunists about an enrollment grab.

wirelessdude01

One thing that came up for discussion recently for us was how to approach the issue of families/children who will have been aboard within 14 days of returning to school or families who go abroad during the school year. Advice from the department is that we cannot refuse them. Bloody absurd if you ask me.

Stateofyou

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

It will take a very brave school to come right out and say what we all feel, this is utter gutter. Take for instance primary school one in a parish comes out and says we can't do x, y and z. School two in the same parish spies a chance to get some new enrollments and makes some announcement along of the lines that we think the guidelines are great and we are open for business. Both schools are open but one is taking advantage of the honesty of the other. This is exactly what would happen.

Hey, wondering if the unions can get involved here in a very specific way? I can understand some school principles/BOM's not wanting to step forward alone; can unions direct each/all school principles to inform parents of the realities?

Can schools really accept all the new enrollments which would push them over into unsafe guidelines though? If that would make class sizes too large then to accommodate, seems that shouldn't be approved.

Stateofyou

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

One thing that came up for discussion recently for us was how to approach the issue of families/children who will have been aboard within 14 days of returning to school or families who go abroad during the school year. Advice from the department is that we cannot refuse them. Bloody absurd if you ask me.

Totally absurd! My neighbours went to their family home in another EU country earlier this summer and they were both instructed to stay home the next 2 weeks before being allowed back into work.

wirelessdude01

Stateofyou wrote: »

Hey, wondering if the unions can get involved here in a very specific way? I can understand some school principles/BOM's not wanting to step forward alone; can unions direct each/all school principles to inform parents of the realities?

.

Unions really have zero influence on the running of schools.

wirelessdude01

Stateofyou wrote: »

Totally absurd! My neighbours went to their family home in another EU country earlier this summer and they were both instructed to stay home the next 2 weeks before being allowed back into work.

Schools cannot insist if what a principal I know who enquired was told.

Murple

average_runner wrote: »

Scotland are doing the same thing so hopefully they show us the way/mistakes before the kids are back here.


Pods in classes in primary school is a silly idea, cause most of the kids in that class will be in sports together, playing with each other etc, so for primary school, one class should be a pod.

Oh no! A class can’t be a pod! It must be called a bubble as this offers a magic level of protection.
(The definition of a pod is a group of 4-6 children shoved together, elbow to elbow and facing each other around their desks because the room is too small to allow them to be spread out. )

khalessi

Murple wrote: »

Oh no! A class can’t be a pod! It must be called a bubble as this offers a magic level of protection.
(The definition of a pod is a group of 4-6 children shoved together, elbow to elbow and facing each other around their desks because the room is too small to allow them to be spread out. )

The gas thing about the pod/ bubble and the 1 metre distance, is the distance is measured belly button to belly button, note each child on plan is a dot, only way to make em fit.

Murple

Stateofyou wrote: »

Hey, wondering if the unions can get involved here in a very specific way? I can understand some school principles/BOM's not wanting to step forward alone; can unions direct each/all school principles to inform parents of the realities?

Can schools really accept all the new enrollments which would push them over into unsafe guidelines though? If that would make class sizes too large then to accommodate, seems that shouldn't be approved.

The unions won’t do this. Have you noticed the almost complete absence of comment from them since the plan was published?

Stateofyou

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Unions really have zero influence on the running of schools.

Okay, so who has the influence/deciding factor here?

I think principles can just decide to speak up to parents, honestly.

I don't think the fears of enrolments leaving to another school coping better under the guidelines can be realised. Because then the school who was able to meet the criteria will no longer be able to if they accepted a slew of new enrolments. So then why would parents move from one unworkable environment to another.

Peter Flynt

ginoginelli wrote: »

I really feel this is like masks all over again. We are being straight up lied to. We are being told that kids are not as infectious as adults and schools are a low risk when in fact there are recent studies showing the exact opposite to be true.

The whole plan and approach to this is a complete and utter shambles.

The plan is to get teachers/students back to schools full time.
Give them a few bob to buy some hand sanitizer, put up a few signs & maybe employ one extra teacher.
After that there is no plan.

gabeeg

Is anyone aware of another country that has significantly better plans in place?

Peter Flynt

gabeeg wrote: »

Is anyone aware of another country that has significantly better plans in place?

In fairness many countries have similar plans but they have the infrastructure in place to deal with a viral pandemic. We think we can similar plans as them (Germany, UK) without consequence. Well we can't. There will be outbreaks, as Varadkar has stated, but this is the price of capitalism.

The whole point of reopening schools fully is to get economies fully reopened.

At the back of it all is a sort of head-in-the-sand approach in that the virus, like Trump has stated, will just go away.

Hopefully it will.
If it doesn't many will get sick....or worse.

khalessi

gabeeg wrote: »

Is anyone aware of another country that has significantly better plans in place?

Well any country that took their kids back in smaller groups like Denmark max 10 per class or phased reopening. All along we kept getting Denmark as a demonstration of how to open schools but we ignored it. Kinda like how the Dept have a gra for Finish education yet take on everything that has been tried and dumped in UK.

And after Leo saying he expects clusters in school and said something along the lines of, will it be the school or principal's fault? Probably not.

That expectation of clusters and subtle shift of blame would have me questioning the TDs.

Murple

average_runner wrote: »

But if school 2 can do it and can take more, then that is a good thing. School 1 might be able to cope with a lower number?

If school 1 take a lower number, that may result in the loss of teacher the following year which may result in the amalgamation of classes which raises the number in classrooms which worsens the problem.
At one stage in my previous school, our numbers fell and we were one below the required number so the following September we had to amalgamate 2 small classes into one class of 38. It would have been over 40 but several parents moved their children out of the school when they heard. Other parents in other classes got spooked and we lost more pupils so the following year the same happened, teacher lost and another large class of 36. The intake of junior infants had to increase to compensate for losses in older classes so we had a class of over 30. Far from ideal.