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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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  • #1442
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    gabeeg wrote: »
    Is anyone aware of another country that has significantly better plans in place?

    Yes, Mexico and also some states within the US. My kids' previous school has a 3 tiered approach. Fully in school with social distancing/health guidelines implemented. Blended learning which is partly in during the week, partly out. And fully online developed curriculum. Tablets were purchased and loaned out where needed including funds for home wifi bills. According to friends still in the US who live in the next big city (we used to be in a suburb) they are requiring a fully online curriculum for the first 3 months and then a phased return with the same 3 options.
    I believe Israel have made some great changes, S. Africa, Denmark and Finland as well. Going to google that now actually.


  • #1443
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Just to note when looking at other countries, maybe their rates of infection were lower to begin with, contributing to the success? Just read this morning that Ireland's infection rate now is higher per 100,000 than the UK....

    Denmark

    When children ages 2-12 returned to school, they were sectioned off into “micro groups” of twelve. These groups—also known as “protective bubbles”—arrive to school at staggered times, eat lunch separately and have their own zones in the playground. All students are required to wash their hands every two hours but do not have to wear face masks. Desks are divided two meters apart, all education material must be cleaned twice a day and when possible, classes are held outside. Parents are not allowed on school property.

    The measures implemented so far appear to have been successful: since schools reopened, there have been no increased cases, according to official government data. As of May 18, children ages 12-16 have returned to secondary schools following similar protocols.

    Other countries who followed similar measures—such as Germany, Finland and Norway—have also avoided significant spikes in the number of new COVID-19 cases.

    South Korea

    Where the intensity of academic studies is infamous and 12-hour school days are commonplace, its planned reopening of schools was delayed five times, finally beginning a phased reboot beginning with high-school seniors on May 20, more than two months after the originally touted date. Afterwards, some 1.8 million high-school freshmen, middle-school juniors and older elementary school kids were also due to return to class on June 3. But a resurgence of cases around Seoul—where some students were found to be infected—prompted hundreds of schools to delay reopening or close once again only days after returning to class.

    At present, schools have temperature checks at school entrances and require students to wear masks, socially distance and frequently wash their hands. Some schools are having students come in on alternate days while others have adopted a hybrid in-class and online approach to lessons.

    “We have to sit alone in classes and at lunch, whereas before we could sit together at lunch at a table for two,” says Kim Hyun-soo, 12, a 6th grader girl at Yangjin Elementary School in Seoul. “The school even distributed mask and hand sanitizers to all students on the first day.”

    Israel

    While Israeli children initially followed the “bubble model” when they returned to school on May 3, limitations on class sizes were lifted two weeks later. During a heatwave, children were even permitted to leave their masks at home.

    By June 3, the Israeli government was forced to close down schools after 2,026 students, teachers and staff had tested positive for COVID-19. 28,147 students were placed under quarantine due to possible exposure to the virus, according to the education ministry. At one single school, there were over 130 cases.
    Nationwide, the numbers of coronavirus cases went up from 50 new cases a day to approximately 1,500 per day within a month of schools reopening. Government data revealed that schools were the second-highest places of infection for the month of June.

    Israel’s top public health official, Siegal Sadetzki, stepped down in protest of the government’s handling of the pandemic, citing specifically their strategy for school reopening. “Much of the source of the second wave stems from the opening of the education system in a way that was not adapted to corona and mass-gatherings,” Sadetzki said in a Facebook post.

    Moving forward, Israel’s education ministry has announced it will be using a different model for reopening schools in the fall that will be based on local rates of infection rather than a nationwide approach.
    (This article is dated Jul 20 so Israel's new plan is probably published by now)

    https://time.com/5868098/schools-reopening-coronavirus-denmark-south-korea-israel/


  • #1444
    Murple
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Murple


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Above my pay grade to be the one imparting that sort of news. The guidelines allow what I'm planning on doing, instead of individual pods you just consider the class bubble like a big pod. The document really is a steaming pile of cow dung.

    Reality is that Leo told the nation yesterday that every child, in every pod, in every bubble, in every school and on all school transport are at risk.

    But at the same time told them that schools are low risk environments.
    Because it makes sense that buildings full of large groups of people in very close proximity to each other for hours every day would be low risk environments.


  • #1445
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    For children who cannot go to school, is there a plan ?


  • #1446
    channaigh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭channaigh


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    For children who cannot go to school, is there a plan ?

    I have a high risk child met with the principal of the school and was told that they would be in a pod with their own class of 30 kids. There is no plan


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  • #1447
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    For children who cannot go to school, is there a plan ?

    From the DES? No. Your school itself though should be putting something together in the absence of any direction from the dept.


  • #1448
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,445 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    For children who cannot go to school, is there a plan ?

    Department have more or less ignored them. Up to schools to provide for only those that fall into the very high risk category from within existing staff resources. Now if a family chooses to keep kids at home and they don't fit in that category then our understanding of the guidelines is that they don't have to be catered for. That's harsh but 99% of schools don't have the staffing resources to cater for those that willingly choose to stay at home.


  • #1449
    Murple
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Murple


    The department have said that very high risk children who must stay at home should be catered for out of a schools existing staffing i.e. no resources being made available, spread what you have even thinner.
    They have also said all other children (presumably including high risk and those living in a household with a very high risk person) should go to school.
    They haven’t made it clear whether a school has any obligation to support students who are not in the very high risk category, or in any risk category beyond being human, but whose parents choose to keep at home.


  • #1450
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Department have more or less ignored them. Up to schools to provide for only those that fall into the very high risk category from within existing staff resources. Now if a family chooses to keep kids at home and they don't fit in that category then our understanding of the guidelines is that they don't have to be catered for. That's harsh but 99% of schools don't have the staffing resources to cater for those that willingly choose to stay at home.

    Disgraceful. If we are not satisfied with the plan and it feels unsafe come time to return, my kids will be homeschooled by myself. Not ideal but I have their books, and with apps/internet I'm confident I can manage to teach a basic primary school curriculum and supplement with other life lessons. This morning my kid had a question about magnets so we watched a video and did a little experiment. Rinse repeat. Studies show, socially speaking, kids are not necessarily disadvantaged and in fact may avoid certain negatives to school life. It will be difficult to juggle with work but doable. They won't be facing the leaving cert any time soon so that's the route we're going if it comes to it.
    Not every family or even most? could make it work and not having a back up online plan is ridiculous. Closures, sickness, high risk, and quarantine is going to happen so it would be needed anyway. We should be protesting this pure bare minimum lazy approach.


  • #1451
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    channaigh wrote: »
    I have a high risk child met with the principal of the school and was told that they would be in a pod with their own class of 30 kids. There is no plan

    TBF the dep have only put forward that very high risk children will be catered for at local level.( and at that only from existing staffing levels) The very high risk category is quite narrow and will only apply to a very small minority of children. Local schools would not have the resources to cater for the high risk category and the dep have made absolutely no provision for that group or the at risk group. This is not a reflection on the school but another indicator of the agh sure be grand attitude of the gov. Unfortunately I can see a lot of local schools getting flack for this.


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  • #1452
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    How can you formally apply to home school your kids ?
    We are not quite at that decision yet but I would like to know the procedure.
    Neither if us are Teachers but Husband is confident that between the 2 of us we could do it if necessary although obviously not ideal.


  • #1453
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    How can you formally apply to home school your kids ?
    We are not quite at that decision yet but I would like to know the procedure.
    Neither if us are Teachers but Husband is confident that between the 2 of us we could do it if necessary although obviously not ideal.

    Honest answer I don’t know but if it was me I would keep the child on the school roll rather than withdraw from the school. I would then work away from the class books and supplement from various other resources. After 20 days absence TUSLA is notified but in my experience nothing ever really cones out of it. You could talk to your local EWO outlining your plans and let the school know that your child will be returning once you feel its safe.


  • #1454
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    Honest answer I don’t know but if it was me I would keep the child on the school roll rather than withdraw from the school. I would then work away from the class books and supplement from various other resources. After 20 days absence TUSLA is notified but in my experience nothing ever really cones out of it. You could talk to your local EWO outlining your plans and let the school know that your child will be returning once you feel its safe.

    We are not at the point of removing either child yet. But it may come to it. So, I just wants to know the criteria and procedure.


  • #1455
    combat14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭combat14


    just saw someone today mention that the laois, kildare and offaly lockdown is likely to be as effective as having a peeing section in the local swimming pool ..

    Leo Varadkar warns there will be coronavirus outbreaks in schools when they reopen

    Mr Varadkar braced the country for infections in schools and colleges


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/leo-varadkar-warns-coronavirus-outbreaks-18754601.amp


  • #1456
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    We are not at the point of removing either child yet. But it may come to it. So, I just wants to know the criteria and procedure.

    I understand but if it was me I would do this informally unless you plan to homeschool indefinitely. There seems to be good progress being made re vaccines and while it is still a fair bit down the line we may be in a better place this time next year. Doing it informally may save you the hassle of trying to re - enroll your children in school again. If you google homeschool Ireland it may give you a better insight. As far as I know there is a set home school curriculum.


  • #1457
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    How can you formally apply to home school your kids ?
    We are not quite at that decision yet but I would like to know the procedure.
    Neither if us are Teachers but Husband is confident that between the 2 of us we could do it if necessary although obviously not ideal.


    The Home Education Network could have advice on that.
    https://www.henireland.org/

    I was looking at their website a while ago, interesting.

    I always loved that idea but not financially viable for me.


  • #1458
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    I understand but if it was me I would do this informally unless you plan to homeschool indefinitely. There seems to be good progress being made re vaccines and while it is still a fair bit down the line we may be in a better place this time next year. Doing it informally may save you the hassle of trying to re - enroll your children in school again. If you google homeschool Ireland it may give you a better insight. As far as I know there is a set home school curriculum.

    I understand. But wonder if we would draw Tusla upon us if informal. Would be wary of that.


  • #1459
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    khalessi wrote: »
    The Home Education Network could have advice on that.
    https://www.henireland.org/

    I was looking at their website a while ago, interesting.

    I always loved that idea but not financially viable for me.

    Thanks for the link. Will have a read.


  • #1460
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    According only to parents I have spoken to, those schools in my area have not yet communicated whatsoever. The overwhelming response on this thread is the same.

    Yes, kids education needs to go ahead. So where are the plans from DES to provide an online/tv curriculum for students. This is a massive, massive fail.

    I 100% agree with everything you have said here.

    I have not heard anything from my kids school yet. They are scheduled to open in 2 weeks time as per the calander sent to us in June. I have no idea if they are still sticking with this opening date or what new procedures are in place. We are totally in the dark

    I am so angry that the DES have not planned for at home learning. In my opinion it is a given that schools will have to close again at some stage. To not plan for this is a huge mistake.


  • #1461
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    I understand. But wonder if we would draw Tusla upon us if informal. Would be wary of that.

    You could try and talk to your local EWO - Educational Welfare Officer and outline your concerns and what you intend to do. You may be able to google or your school will know who that is.

    ETA - try and get a meeting with the school principal. Outline your concerns and see what he/ she thinks and what would be the best way forward.


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  • #1462
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    I understand. But wonder if we would draw Tusla upon us if informal. Would be wary of that.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/the_irish_education_system/home_education.html


  • #1463
    Murple
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Murple


    combat14 wrote: »
    just saw someone today mention that the laois, kildare and offaly lockdown is likely to be as effective as having a peeing section in the local swimming pool ..

    Replace “Laois, Kildare and Offaly lockdown” with “pod system in classrooms”. Just about sums it up.


  • #1464
    jrosen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭jrosen


    combat14 wrote: »
    just saw someone today mention that the laois, kildare and offaly lockdown is likely to be as effective as having a peeing section in the local swimming pool ..

    I would think this to be true. Considering the lock down still allows for sports, shopping and non essential trips to beautify oneself.

    These counties are commuter counties. They are filled with with people who reside there but who often work and socialize in other counties. Particularly Dublin


  • #1465
    Stevieluvsye
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    jrosen wrote: »
    combat14 wrote: »
    just saw someone today mention that the laois, kildare and offaly lockdown is likely to be as effective as having a peeing section in the local swimming pool ..

    I would think this to be true. Considering the lock down still allows for sports, shopping and non essential trips to beautify oneself.

    These counties are commuter counties. They are filled with with people who reside there but who often work and socialize in other counties. Particularly Dublin

    Wife was stopped this morning in Kildare - Off to work gaurd, off ye go says guard. She was actually going to work but it's pointless anyway.


  • #1466
    am_zarathustra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    I understand but if it was me I would do this informally unless you plan to homeschool indefinitely. There seems to be good progress being made re vaccines and while it is still a fair bit down the line we may be in a better place this time next year. Doing it informally may save you the hassle of trying to re - enroll your children in school again. If you google homeschool Ireland it may give you a better insight. As far as I know there is a set home school curriculum.

    I'd say the chances of an EWO officer following up on a genuine case of some attempting to home school are slim to none. Half our kids miss 20 days, fairly often for completely spurious reasons, nothing ever happens. One case went to court and that took forever and the kids might have been running an illegal online business on top of never coming to school


  • #1467
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Do people think Tulsa are going to come after you if you keep kids off school, just let school know what Leo said today that outbreaks will happen in schools and say your not risking your kids life


  • #1468
    bettyoleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭bettyoleary


    Just on my local radio station today NP read outr a face book post from a group of girls that said"We wont be wearing masks and will give teachers hell" Wow


  • #1469
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    HSE just confirmed the changing of uniform is not one of their recommendations or needed.

    Will.schools notify all parents of one case in the school?


  • #1470
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    am_zarathustra wrote: »
    I'd say the chances of an EWO officer following up on a genuine case of some attempting to home school are slim to none. Half our kids miss 20 days, fairly often for completely spurious reasons, nothing ever happens. One case went to court and that took forever and the kids might have been running an illegal online business on top of never coming to school

    I totally agree but at the same time no one can say for definite what would happen. ( and its grand for an anonymous online poster to say you’re grand TUSLA will do nothing as it doesn’t p affect them) If the poster is concerned re TUSLA than a chat with the EWO might help put her mind at ease. If I was in that position I wouldn’t be factoring TUSLA into it at all based on my experience of children who have missed well over 40 days of the school year.


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  • #1471
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    channaigh wrote: »
    I have a high risk child met with the principal of the school and was told that they would be in a pod with their own class of 30 kids. There is no plan
    The DES are making a distinction between " high risk" and "very high risk." For staff, you must be "very high risk" to work from home, so I'd imagine for children who are to stay at home and receive some form of home tuition ( by who?) it's the same.


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