Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

caveat emptor · 07-08-2020 08:56AM

If we were to introduce fines for breaking quarantine / refusing a test.
How much should that fine be?

Germany up to 25000 euro
New York 10000
Italy 2500

Germany sounds extreme but someone who booked a holiday in January is effectively incentivised to go.
Airport open and flights running so no chance of a refund.
All you need is one person to shut down a meat packing plant.
Nobody is going to tell their employer they are going to Spain because they'd have quarantine.

So what should the amount be bearing in mind this could jeopardise the country's food supply?

https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1291601893077200896?s=20

Boggles · 07-08-2020 08:56AM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Now from Monday anyone who doesn’t wear a totally unnecessary mask will be treated like a leper and be stared out of it and intimidated because of the fear that’s been put in people

Good.

is_that_so · 07-08-2020 08:58AM

wadacrack wrote: »

Yea theirs a lag as seen in Australia and Hong Kong. It will change in a few weeks, Symtoms and more serious disease for some will develop.Its highly likely to be spreading asymptomatically in the community . Impossible to pick up every case.

Australia messed up and Hong Kong got complacent, given its population density. We have 4 large clusters of concern for now, which are being managed. Health messages are being ramped up for greater vigilance. There may be some cases in the community but they are low, thanks to our own vigilance.

07-08-2020 08:59AM

wadacrack wrote: »

Theirs a lag with symptoms too, so possibly lot more asymptomatic transmission occuring than is being picked. Cases look like they could be very high in two weeks. 100-150 daily could be the rate os transmission. People seem to be forgetting its a very serious virus. 20% need hospitalization. Maybe lower now but nothing has changed since March. The hope is that their are not as many vulnerable people to pick it up. Hopefully some truth to the T Cell theories.

Big change since March is we are now detecting lots of asymptomatic cases. In March a large portion of people with symptoms were not being detected

YFlyer · 07-08-2020 09:00AM

mean gene wrote: »

Where are they supposed to isolate all these people who live together

Do they not have overflow areas if the situation got bad according to projections in March?

07-08-2020 09:00AM

kenmc wrote: »

Covid 19 compliance officer is not an official "thing", likely created by the construction industry as they were the first of the reopenings and were putting structure into place prior to the HSA return to work guidelines bring published.

In these guidelines, there is a "lead worker representative" role defined, responsible for ensuring that the company is implementing their part of the guidelines to keep the workers safe, and liasing between workers and employer.

So being a Nazi is not a prerequisite for the role then?

The Unbearables · 07-08-2020 09:06AM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

It’s not the Black Death that the government and NPHET would lead you to believe.

Yes dangerous to certain age groups and compromised people but the fact is and backed up by the numbers

People actually recover from this and continue to live

Shocking really that well over 24000 people have actually recovered :eek:

Yes recovered. But now we’re stuck in a state of scaremongering and fear with the way this thing is being handled by government,NPHET and the media.

Now from Monday anyone who doesn’t wear a totally unnecessary mask will be treated like a leper and be stared out of it and intimidated because of the fear that’s been put in people

If they continue it’s going to take a generation for people to recover from this fear.

Play your part, wear a mask.

caveat emptor · 07-08-2020 09:09AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Australia messed up and Hong Kong got complacent, given its population density. We have 4 large clusters of concern for now, which are being managed. Health messages are being ramped up for greater vigilance. There may be some cases in the community but they are low, thanks to our own vigilance.

Not quite true. Fair play to Dr Glynn for explaining basic epidemiology and that these cases are not in bubbles. A fact most don't seem to grasp around here.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1291437948832034831?s=20

The Unbearables · 07-08-2020 09:09AM

completedit wrote: »

As someone who actively disobeyed Govt. Rules( I went away for a weekend and didn't quarantine when back) I do care. However, instead of quarantining, I wore a mask in the proper places, I kept my movements to a minimum. However, if I had to do something or wanted to do something I went. I went for pints one night outside in a beer garden. I assessed the risk and made my own informed decision about the best course of action.

The reality is this is going to be with us for a long time to come.

It's people like you I worry about the most.

hetuzozaho · 07-08-2020 09:17AM

completedit wrote: »

As someone who actively disobeyed Govt. Rules( I went away for a weekend and didn't quarantine when back) I do care. However, instead of quarantining, I wore a mask in the proper places, I kept my movements to a minimum. However, if I had to do something or wanted to do something I went. I went for pints one night outside in a beer garden. I assessed the risk and made my own informed decision about the best course of action.

The reality is this is going to be with us for a long time to come.

Surely going for pints instead of quarantining is just bad risk assessment!

caveat emptor · 07-08-2020 09:17AM

completedit wrote: »

As someone who actively disobeyed Govt. Rules( I went away for a weekend and didn't quarantine when back) I do care. However, instead of quarantining, I wore a mask in the proper places, I kept my movements to a minimum. However, if I had to do something or wanted to do something I went. I went for pints one night outside in a beer garden. I assessed the risk and made my own informed decision about the best course of action.

The reality is this is going to be with us for a long time to come.

Defo troll but if you were real.

Did you ever hear of Mary Mallon? Lovely lady. She even had a nickname.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon

kenmc · 07-08-2020 09:23AM

Deleted User wrote: »

So being a Nazi is not a prerequisite for the role then?

Not mentioned in my training anyway

Pitch n Putt · 07-08-2020 09:24AM

John O.Groats wrote: »

With the rise in new cases mask wearing is now actually more important than it would have been at anytime since March/April had it been made mandatory at that stage. That is the reality no matter how much you want to deny it.

Beg to differ March/April &May were peak transmission period.

But we didn’t have enough masks in the country so surprisingly enough it wasn’t mandatory and we were told that the evidence was inconclusive regarding mask wearing.

They are making it up as they go along.

Masks now provide a false sense of security for some and even signs that mask wearing may be contributing to improper distancing and hand sanitising

Wolf359f · 07-08-2020 09:25AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Not quite true. Fair play to Dr Glynn for explaining basic epidemiology and that these cases are not in bubbles. A fact most don't seem to grasp around here.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1291437948832034831?s=20

I think professor Nolan's analogy of a Reservoir of infections was a good way to describe it. He did also mention, although the R0 was high in clusters, it was much lower in the community, so any cases that escape the clusters, should grow at the lower R0 number.
Most certainly a critical week going forward.

seamus · 07-08-2020 09:27AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Big change since March is we are now detecting lots of asymptomatic cases. In March a large portion of people with symptoms were not being detected

This is what people need to remember. Everything is different between now and March/April. We understand the virus better, our tests turn around in less than 24 hours, not 3 days. Hygiene measures are everywhere, mask compliance is good and growing. Practically all of our new cases we can now trace, they're not community transmission.

There isn't a huge amount that we need to do to get this back under control. My main concern is that public messaging is a bit fudged. There's a large cohort who seem to think that going back to work in the office is fine without any real changes. That meeting 5 of their mates indoors is low risk, there's no need for distancing, masks or hand washing.

This all went a bit askew after we entered phase 3. Messaging got confused, people thought that it was suddenly safe to have everyone around for dinner, to have sleepovers with all the kids, to go to house parties.

With the 80+ cases expected to be announced tonight, we need Martin to come out with clearer messaging. 50 of your mates in a house party is not OK. 10 is not OK, assuming that they all come from different houses. Even if you only have 2 mates over, you should be sitting 2m away from eachother and have windows and doors open.

This virus hasn't gone away. You're not suddenly less likely to catch it, we're just a lot better at finding out who probably has it.

Pitch n Putt · 07-08-2020 09:31AM

The Unbearables wrote: »

Play your part, wear a mask.

No evidence masks work.

Face coverings made from all sorts of material giving people false sense of security around others.

Very bad decision in reality unless you can provide a standard of mask or fabric that should be used.

You could wear a sieve on your face and everyone would think your no risk as you have your face covered.

Herein lies the problems with masks and face coverings

petes · 07-08-2020 09:33AM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

No evidence masks work.

Face coverings made from all sorts of material giving people false sense of security around others.

Very bad decision in reality unless you can provide a standard of mask or fabric that should be used.

You could wear a sieve on your face and everyone would think your no risk as you have your face covered.

Herein lies the problems with masks and face coverings

Any evidence that they don't?

Pitch n Putt · 07-08-2020 09:38AM

petes wrote: »

Any evidence that they don't?

Same as the evidence that they do really

There is none.

Dr Cillian De Gascun a virologist and advisor to NPHET has reservations about there effectiveness

thelad95 · 07-08-2020 09:38AM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

It’s not the Black Death that the government and NPHET would lead you to believe.

Yes dangerous to certain age groups and compromised people but the fact is and backed up by the numbers

People actually recover from this and continue to live

Shocking really that well over 24000 people have actually recovered :eek:

Yes recovered. But now we’re stuck in a state of scaremongering and fear with the way this thing is being handled by government,NPHET and the media.

Now from Monday anyone who doesn’t wear a totally unnecessary mask will be treated like a leper and be stared out of it and intimidated because of the fear that’s been put in people

If they continue it’s going to take a generation for people to recover from this fear.

Ah lad what are you basing any of this on? This is like something you would read in February or March when the reality of the situation hadn't hit yet and nonsense like this could be excused.

In your expert opinion, what are you classifying as recovered? A significant minority of those people have had long term effects and the fact is science hasn't caught up yet with either the short or long term effects of this could be. A number of studies have shown extremely alarming markers in terms of blood pressure and heart rate in young and healthy people long after infection. It's not for any government to base policy on the high level assumption that this only affects old and vulnerable people. A number of governments were tending towards that approach back in March (namely our near neighbours) until they had thousands of deaths on their hands of people not in that category including healthcare workers.

Also, NPHET and the government are not necessarily in the business of unnecessary fear mongering. You do realize that the restrictions and recommendations from the government are in direct contradiction to their aims of taking in as much tax as possible? They love the VAT from pubs, from airlines, from foreign tourists with bigger credit cards than common sense.

If you were to bother to read any minutes from NPHET meetings you would see that many of them went on well into the early hours and even after all that deliberating not every action is taken on board and implemented by the government.

Many visitors to Italy have said you are utterly castigated if you are not wearing a mask in public, and rightly so. We are just lucky here that we never had a situation where doctors had to decide if a patient (not necessarily an old and vulnerable one) could be given a chance to survive. It wasn't long before coffins were being stockpiled in churches and the army had to be called in to move them. They are collectively suffering post traumatic stress as a nation. So, just wear a bloody mask or we could end up there ourselves someday.

niallo27 · 07-08-2020 09:43AM

thelad95 wrote: »

Ah lad what are you basing any of this on? This is like something you would read in February or March when the reality of the situation hadn't hit yet and nonsense like this could be excused.

In your expert opinion, what are you classifying as recovered? A significant minority of those people have had long term effects and the fact is science hasn't caught up yet with either the short or long term effects of this could be. A number of studies have shown extremely alarming markers in terms of blood pressure and heart rate in young and healthy people long after infection. It's not for any government to base policy on the high level assumption that this only affects old and vulnerable people. A number of governments were tending towards that approach back in March (namely our near neighbours) until they had thousands of deaths on their hands of people not in that category including healthcare workers.

Also, NPHET and the government are not necessarily in the business of unnecessary fear mongering. You do realize that the restrictions and recommendations from the government are in direct contradiction to their aims of taking in as much tax as possible? They love the VAT from pubs, from airlines, from foreign tourists with bigger credit cards than common sense.

If you were to bother to read any minutes from NPHET meetings you would see that many of them went on well into the early hours and even after all that deliberating not every action is taken on board and implemented by the government.

Many visitors to Italy have said you are utterly castigated if you are not wearing a mask in public, and rightly so. We are just lucky here that we never had a situation where doctors had to decide if a patient (not necessarily an old and vulnerable one) could be given a chance to survive. It wasn't long before coffins were being stockpiled in churches and the army had to be called in to move them. They are collectively suffering post traumatic stress as a nation. So, just wear a bloody mask or we could end up there ourselves someday.

This keeps getting brought up, how can they know about long term affects when they probably only had the virus a few months ago. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have no adverse affects after it but we continue to concentrate on the few.

thelad95 · 07-08-2020 09:46AM

niallo27 wrote: »

This keeps getting brought up, how can they know about long term affects when they probably only had the virus a few months ago. There are hundreds of thousands of people who have no adverse affects after it but we continue to concentrate on the few.

Do you want governments to take some sort of biological gamble and say there's no long term effects at all, when there's evidence beginning to mount to the contrary?

petes · 07-08-2020 09:48AM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Same as the evidence that they do really

There is none.

Dr Cillian De Gascun a virologist and advisor to NPHET has reservations about there effectiveness

Seems extremely strange to say there is no evidence either way, none whatsoever?

Yes, reservations about there effectiveness, not that there is no evidence either way.

niallo27 · 07-08-2020 09:51AM

thelad95 wrote: »

Do you want governments to take some sort of biological gamble and say there's no long term effects at all, when there's evidence beginning to mount to the contrary?

That's not my point, several posters have talked about long term affects as being fact when nobody knows. I am just pointing out that hundreds of thousands of people have completely recovered. There could be people reading comments here absolutely terrified of long term affects here, thinking if they get this disease if it doesnt kill them now it will kill them in 6 months or leave them unable to breathe. We just need a bit of balance.

Boggles · 07-08-2020 09:52AM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Same as the evidence that they do really

There is none.

I have seen no evidence either way, so I have decided they don't work.

#science

antodeco · 07-08-2020 09:53AM

petes wrote: »

Seems extremely strange to say there is no evidence either way, none whatsoever?

Yes, reservations about there effectiveness, not that there is no evidence either way.

Exactly. How I see it is, not wearing a mask, guarantees no additional protection to others.

Wearing a mask might offer protection to others.

It as simple as, do nothing things will always remain the same, do something different, things may change

07-08-2020 09:54AM

Strumms wrote: »

It’s almost like ‘the perfect disease’. Pure sci-fi stuff. It’s like being in a fûckin grim early 1990’s sci-fi film.

Well designed spikes added by the Chinese military. Pity they didnt have better safety protocols.

thelad95 · 07-08-2020 09:54AM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Same as the evidence that they do really

There is none.

Dr Cillian De Gascun a virologist and advisor to NPHET has reservations about there effectiveness

He has reservations about their effectiveness because he knows people won't wear them properly. The amount of half arsed and improper usage I see on a daily basis is alarming.

HSE need to send out education pamphlets ASAP.

As I've said previously a lot of people mean well enough to wear one but it's nearly counterproductive of they can't be worn properly.

cadaliac · 07-08-2020 09:55AM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Beg to differ March/April &May were peak transmission period.

But we didn’t have enough masks in the country so surprisingly enough it wasn’t mandatory and we were told that the evidence was inconclusive regarding mask wearing.

They are making it up as they go along.

Masks now provide a false sense of security for some and even signs that mask wearing may be contributing to improper distancing and hand sanitising

What do you not get about wearing a mask? You have already pointed out correctly why they were not mandatory in April / March. Now we have the supplies and it will be mandatory from Monday in the necessary places.
It's fairly simple and you are either a troll or someone who will just not listen to the reasoning why.

John O.Groats · 07-08-2020 10:00AM

seamus wrote: »

This is what people need to remember. Everything is different between now and March/April. We understand the virus better, our tests turn around in less than 24 hours, not 3 days. Hygiene measures are everywhere, mask compliance is good and growing. Practically all of our new cases we can now trace, they're not community transmission.

There isn't a huge amount that we need to do to get this back under control. My main concern is that public messaging is a bit fudged. There's a large cohort who seem to think that going back to work in the office is fine without any real changes. That meeting 5 of their mates indoors is low risk, there's no need for distancing, masks or hand washing.

This all went a bit askew after we entered phase 3. Messaging got confused, people thought that it was suddenly safe to have everyone around for dinner, to have sleepovers with all the kids, to go to house parties.

With the 80+ cases expected to be announced tonight, we need Martin to come out with clearer messaging. 50 of your mates in a house party is not OK. 10 is not OK, assuming that they all come from different houses. Even if you only have 2 mates over, you should be sitting 2m away from eachother and have windows and doors open.

This virus hasn't gone away. You're not suddenly less likely to catch it, we're just a lot better at finding out who probably has it.

For all the criticism of Leo and Simon Harris over the last few months they did get this message across clearly even if a significant minority ignored them. MM and Donnelly should learn from them and do the same.

Pitch n Putt · 07-08-2020 10:00AM

thelad95 wrote: »

Ah lad what are you basing any of this on? This is like something you would read in February or March when the reality of the situation hadn't hit yet and nonsense like this could be excused.

In your expert opinion, what are you classifying as recovered? A significant minority of those people have had long term effects and the fact is science hasn't caught up yet with either the short or long term effects of this could be. A number of studies have shown extremely alarming markers in terms of blood pressure and heart rate in young and healthy people long after infection. It's not for any government to base policy on the high level assumption that this only affects old and vulnerable people. A number of governments were tending towards that approach back in March (namely our near neighbours) until they had thousands of deaths on their hands of people not in that category including healthcare workers.

Also, NPHET and the government are not necessarily in the business of unnecessary fear mongering. You do realize that the restrictions and recommendations from the government are in direct contradiction to their aims of taking in as much tax as possible? They love the VAT from pubs, from airlines, from foreign tourists with bigger credit cards than common sense.

If you were to bother to read any minutes from NPHET meetings you would see that many of them went on well into the early hours and even after all that deliberating not every action is taken on board and implemented by the government.

Many visitors to Italy have said you are utterly castigated if you are not wearing a mask in public, and rightly so. We are just lucky here that we never had a situation where doctors had to decide if a patient (not necessarily an old and vulnerable one) could be given a chance to survive. It wasn't long before coffins were being stockpiled in churches and the army had to be called in to move them. They are collectively suffering post traumatic stress as a nation. So, just wear a bloody mask or we could end up there ourselves someday.

No expert opinion but classified as recovered is of all the cases on this island 24000 plus people didn’t actually die once they contracted the virus.

RIP to all those we lost , some unnecessarily so by very poor decision making by NPHET and CMO regarding nursing homes.

If were to follow your logic of long term effects there will be no one ever classed as recovered as every ailment a person who contracted covid has for the rest of their lives will be attributed to covid 19.

What will the effect of improper medical screening be in 12-18 months time. ?
More people will be lost because of this that covid 19.

The government wouldn’t make a decision to save their lives and are solely going on NPHET advice. This leaves them an out and someone else to blame if things go pear shaped.

Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

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