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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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    #6362
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    SeanW wrote: »
    They would need to call it "DORSH" for that :D but alas I cannot think of an acronym that would fit

    Dublin Overground Railway Serving Howth.

    Joking aside, can we get back on topic.


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    #6363
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,372 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Kildare Line Engineering Consultants tender awarded to Atkins/TYPSA/TUC

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/233056


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    #6364
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Anyone know whether the Pearse roof works were completed by July as scheduled, or delayed due to covid? As usual Irish Rail providing no information.

    Cheers.


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    #6365
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Fully complete ahead of schedule


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    #6366
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Anyone know whether the Pearse roof works were completed by July as scheduled, or delayed due to covid? As usual Irish Rail providing no information.

    Cheers.

    Yes. It is finished. Here's some photographs from Rail Scene Ireland. It looks brilliant. The guys who did the work for IÉ did a terrific job.

    i-NgvJRp5-XL.jpg

    i-4F6v8FN-XL.jpg


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    #6367
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,289 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The presser about the Kildare line design project specifically mentions 1.5kV DC - it had been suggested here that 25kV AC was going to be used with new units being dual mode.


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    #6368
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    L1011 wrote: »
    The presser about the Kildare line design project specifically mentions 1.5kV DC - it had been suggested here that 25kV AC was going to be used with new units being dual mode.

    Yeah, pretty sure that was me thinking that was a possibility, but I also said it was almost certainly the way I was reading it :pac:

    Regardless, it's great to see movement on this.


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    #6369
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    Can I ask what difference does it make? I'm not good when it comes to electrics.


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    #6370
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    ncounties wrote: »
    Can I ask what difference does it make? I'm not good when it comes to electrics.

    The higher the voltage, the fewer substations needed, but the more bridge clearance needed.


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    #6371
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,690 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Does this tender include any new stations for the line?


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    #6372
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,289 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    ncounties wrote: »
    Can I ask what difference does it make? I'm not good when it comes to electrics.

    Additionally to what Sam said, 1500V DC is now an old technology and not always in the standard set of supported power modes for a manufacturer - 25kV AC is much more common. It could have been cheaper in future to get 25kV AC units -but its not that likely the existing DART will ever be changed.
    AngryLips wrote: »
    Does this tender include any new stations for the line?

    One at Kylemore Road was in the original spec, its not in the presser but I'd expect its still there.

    Glasnevin detailed design (for the non-Metrolink bits) is probably part of the Maynooth line design, which is already awarded - someone probably knows better info on that.

    Cabra is still on the cards long-term but not initially it'd seem.


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    #6373
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    From what I can assume on this bit of news (about DART Plus) is that the NTA now has to do a new advertising campaign on what this project is about once it gets implemented for any Irish rail passengers intending to use this new service in Dublin. I would also say that when rail passengers are out there using the new bi-mode railcars that are planned to be purchased by the operator for this project. This new ad campaign will be there to fully explain it's benefits to the public at large while at the same time it would be making progress to build the infrastructure to support it & eventually begin to run it's new services on Dublin's rail network.

    I only read this information only within the last week or so as it took me by surprise. I would say that because it had been proposed by IÉ to call it DART U instead of DART Underground a few years ago. But that name never took off because of delays from the Irish government to delay the project because they said they couldn't afford to build it. You then had these numerous redesigns by the NTA that was going to shorten it down to have that turnback facility ending at Pearse Station only.

    That stupid redesign exercise was regarded a complete joke in the public eye's in my opinion because it would never been able to deliver on the promised benefits & capacity enhancements of the DART service while it connected all of the major rail lines in Dublin except with leaving the Dublin - Belfast line out of the picture altogether with no underground tunnel available to get the train from either Drogheda or Howth to the other side of the city. To leave that part of the DART line out to fend for itself while it was left to run expanded rail services to Drogheda on it's existing rail infrastructure with no proper thought of how they couldn't cope with running the trains properly into the future with running more rail services was short-sighted & not properly thought out by the people involved in designing the project.

    That's my two cents.


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    #6374
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,802 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    L1011 wrote: »
    The presser about the Kildare line design project specifically mentions 1.5kV DC - it had been suggested here that 25kV AC was going to be used with new units being dual mode.

    Is there a link for this? I'd like to read more but I don't anything when googling.


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    #6375
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,802 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    I only read this information only within the last week or so as it took me by surprise. I would say that because it had been proposed by IÉ to call it DART U instead of DART Underground a few years ago. But that name never took off because of delays from the Irish government to delay the project because they said they couldn't afford to build it. You then had these numerous redesigns by the NTA that was going to shorten it down to have that turnback facility ending at Pearse Station only.

    That stupid redesign exercise was regarded a complete joke in the public eye's in my opinion because it would never been able to deliver on the promised benefits & capacity enhancements of the DART service while it connected all of the major rail lines in Dublin except with leaving the Dublin - Belfast line out of the picture altogether with no underground tunnel available to get the train from either Drogheda or Howth to the other side of the city. To leave that part of the DART line out to fend for itself while it was left to run expanded rail services to Drogheda on it's existing rail infrastructure with no proper thought of how they couldn't cope with running the trains properly into the future with running more rail services was short-sighted & not properly thought out by the people involved in designing the project.

    That's my two cents.

    Pretty sure the project has only officially been known as DART Underground, DART U is just shorthand used on the internet.

    What is happening now is the non-tunnel elements of the project. These really should have started earlier rather than everything being piled into a single project which was too big/complicated/expensive. Getting the non-tunnel elements done now we make the tunnel more likely to happen in future, a chunk of the cost will have already been expended so the tunnel project will cost less but still deliver all the same benefits. The tunnel needs a redesign due to the big SSG interchange station not being provided under Metro as originally intended. Also, if quad-tracking is extended to Heuston under DART+, the tunnel can then surface at Heuston rather than extending to Inchicore.


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    #6376
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,690 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    L1011 wrote: »
    One at Kylemore Road was in the original spec, its not in the presser but I'd expect its still there.

    Glasnevin detailed design (for the non-Metrolink bits) is probably part of the Maynooth line design, which is already awarded - someone probably knows better info on that.

    Cabra is still on the cards long-term but not initially it'd seem.


    Disappointing that there's no station for Inchicore or for a stop at Heuston for Connolly bound services.


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    #6377
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The higher the voltage, the fewer substations needed, but the more bridge clearance needed.

    Would any bridges need to be raised ?


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    #6378
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    L1011 wrote: »
    Additionally to what Sam said, 1500V DC is now an old technology and not always in the standard set of supported power modes for a manufacturer - 25kV AC is much more common. It could have been cheaper in future to get 25kV AC units -but its not that likely the existing DART will ever be changed.



    One at Kylemore Road was in the original spec, its not in the presser but I'd expect its still there.

    Glasnevin detailed design (for the non-Metrolink bits) is probably part of the Maynooth line design, which is already awarded - someone probably knows better info on that.

    Cabra is still on the cards long-term but not initially it'd seem.

    Is Heuston West gone?


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    #6379
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I think that people are putting carts before horses here.

    The detailed plans have yet to be published - only the high level brochure.

    Let’s wait and see before concluding whether the stations such as Cabra and Heuston West aren’t happening.


  • Options
    #6380
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Would any bridges need to be raised ?

    They had to raise bridges when the Dart was put in originally (or lowre the track bed). They may have to raise bridges (almost certainly) so lets hope they raise them high enough to allow for the extra clearance required for 25 kv.


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    #6381
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Is there a link for this? I'd like to read more but I don't anything when googling.

    Is this it?


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    #6382
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Disappointing that there's no station for Inchicore or for a stop at Heuston for Connolly bound services.
    roadmaster wrote: »
    Is Heuston West gone?
    LXFlyer wrote: »
    I think that people are putting carts before horses here.

    The detailed plans have yet to be published - only the high level brochure.

    Let’s wait and see before concluding whether the stations such as Cabra and Heuston West aren’t happening.

    Absolutely LXFlyer.

    I looked at the brochure earlier. They've only put on some indicative stations so they're not blank lines.


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    #6383
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Is there a link for this? I'd like to read more but I don't anything when googling.

    https://www.railwaygazette.com/infrastructure/kildare-line-expansion-project-contract-awarded/57107.article
    roadmaster wrote: »
    Is Heuston West gone?

    It's looking like Heuston West is Kylemore.


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    #6384
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    From the tenders:

    Hazelhatch:
    • Completition of 4 tracking from Parkwest into Heuston Station.
    • Electrification and re-signalling of the Kildare Line from Hazelhatch to Heuston and through the Phoenix park tunnel to the west side of Glasnevin junction.
    • Structural works associated with the 4-tracking and renewal of the South Circular Road, Memorial Road, Sarsfield Road, Kylemore Road and Le Fanu Road bridges.
    • Development of a new station at Kylemore.
    • Realignment works to accommodate segregation of DART and Intercity.
    • Any upgrade works with Phoenix Park Tunnel.
    • Passive provision for development of DART underground at a later date.

    Maynooth:
    • Remodelling Connolly Station and Docklands Station to increase capacity.
    • Modifications at key junction approaching Connolly/Docklands Station from north and west to
    support increased services and flexibility.
    • Elimination of level crossings on the Maynooth Line and provision of alternative new bridges, as
    appropriate, for pedestrians, cyclists and vehicles.
    • Electrification and power supply to support the projected capacity increases.
    • Signalling and telecommunications infrastructure to support the projected capacity increases.
    • Provision of a new train depot.
    • Infrastructure modifications to facilitate overall project.
    • Integration of DART Expansion with MetroLink and other public transport schemes.


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    #6385
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Peregrine wrote: »
    From the tenders:

    Hazelhatch:

    • Passive provision for development of DART underground at a later date.

    That's all important.


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    #6386
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Peregrine wrote: »
    https://www.railwaygazette.com/infrastructure/kildare-line-expansion-project-contract-awarded/57107.article

    It's looking like Heuston West is Kylemore.

    Heuston West is not Kylemore. It is an additional station planned to be built just before the Phoenix Park Tunnel (provide a platform 11 opposite platform 10).


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    #6387
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,802 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Heuston West is not Kylemore. It is an additional station planned to be built just before the Phoenix Park Tunnel (provide a platform 11 opposite platform 10).

    I thought Heuston West was intended to be Chapelizod Bypass/SCR junction? That way it is actually accessible for passengers in Kilmainham and Islandbridge and could be used by daytrippers to Kilmainham Gaol, IMMA, War Memorial Gardens, etc. It would also be a good interchange point allowing DART users change to a commuter service into Heuston before the DART heads to the PPT.


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    #6388
    Rulmeq
    Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    Just out of curiosity, is there room for a link from the PPT into Heuston itself?


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    #6389
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Is this it?

    From that document:
    Kildare Line:
    Bridge reconstructions arising from corridor widening and electrical clearances, as necessary


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    #6390
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Rulmeq wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, is there room for a link from the PPT into Heuston itself?

    Not really and it’s not on any plan.

    It isn’t needed.


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    #6391
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    I thought Heuston West was intended to be Chapelizod Bypass/SCR junction? That way it is actually accessible for passengers in Kilmainham and Islandbridge and could be used by daytrippers to Kilmainham Gaol, IMMA, War Memorial Gardens, etc. It would also be a good interchange point allowing DART users change to a commuter service into Heuston before the DART heads to the PPT.

    I don’t think there’s enough space there for a station, and I also think that it would be highly unlikely to be served by Heuston terminators - you’re only going to fit a two platform station in that area.

    I understood it that it would be further east with access through Clancy Quay.

    But again, no detail has been published for any of this.

    We need to see concrete plans first!


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