DART+ (DART Expansion)

Citizen Six

New timetable has also caused confusion with Maynooth services now going to Grand Canal Dock. People mix up Docklands and Grand Canal Dock, and end up on the wrong train.

I overheard one man arguing with a driver, at Docklands, telling him that the train is supposed to go to Connolly and Pearse after Docklands, and he was on one that did that the day before. Drivers also making announcements at Broom Bridge, that the train is for Docklands, and multiple people then bolting for the doors.

antimatterx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122591285#Comment_122591285

The new timetable has been nothing but a disaster in my experience.

Paul2019

"Disaster" is a strong word. 😯

antimatterx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122591415#Comment_122591415

I haven't had one train on time from the Northside and I use the train daily. For the first week they were coming 5 minutes later (the old time) now they're coming 10 minutes later.

The city center was fine unless yesterday. The Dart home was 20 minutes late then traveled at a snails pace. It's a disaster!!!

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122591522#Comment_122591522

Where were you travelling home to onthe dart? What’s the reason for the delay?

antimatterx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122591565#Comment_122591565

I was on the Malahide train. I don't know the reason.

kalych

Same thing on the 8am and 5pm Maynooth services last week. They announced it was due to 'operational issues'.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122591589#Comment_122591589

The live map is worth looking at in these situations. It'll show you what's ahead, and if it's delayed, knocking on to your train.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122591966#Comment_122591966

Operational issues basically covers anything that can happen, including timetable mess ups.

antimatterx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122592764#Comment_122592764

I really don't care what the reason is though. A delayed train is a delayed train and the last two weeks have been horrendous.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122592810#Comment_122592810

If you don't care, then just sit down, and shut up. It'll be worked out in about a month.

PlatformNine

Someone mentioning the station made me think, what actually is the plan with Docklands station? A lot of the D+ website talks about relocating or replacing it with Spencer Dock station and route map doesn't show the station but the RO still shows both stations. Does relocating/replacing mean they are mothballing or removing Docklands station (or maybe turning it into sidings)? Or does it mean they are just sending the services to Spencer Dock and keeping Docklands for services that can't fit into Connolly or Spencer Dock?

antimatterx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122592861#Comment_122592861

I care that it was late, not why it was late.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593047#Comment_122593047

So complain to Irish Rail.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122591095#Comment_122591095

Just discovered that the Toronto streetcars are set up like this, and are numbered 501 to 512 along with the relevant destination (i.e. 510 - Spadina). For the 6 night-time streetcar services they use 3xx instead.

cgcsb

The option to JR DART+West will expire by tomorrow night and what I'm hearing is that there are no plans by anyone to do so. Cross your fingers yall

antimatterx

I see Cian O'Callaghan of the Social Democrats is coming out against the plan and had a petition. Not surprising given he lives in Howth however does he not realise that this will result in a better service.

A more frequent serving that's serving many more stations than present is more important than a few stations losing direct rail service. He's lost me giving him any preference at the next election.

cgcsb

Soc dems promised something different but reverted to nimbyism a long time ago.

The howth thing is rooted in plain old classism, it ought to be roundly ignored.

antimatterx

More frequent trains up the Drogheda line would suit me tbh. I have quite a few friends who live north of Malahide now on that line and it's a pain coming home at the weekend.

The last train on a Saturday is usually 22:15 which means I need to leave the pub or house by 9:30 at the latest. A few more before midnight towards the city would be splendid.

subpar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577391#Comment_122577391

6 Trains per hour to and from Howth will result in the level crossings being closed for approx 35 mins per hour during peak times which will result in total gridlock on the roads

antimatterx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122602262#Comment_122602262

The alternative is that all these commuters on the Dart hop into a car and it's even more congested.

I will agree that Irish Rail are far too cautious with the level crossings. The go down well before they need to.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122602262#Comment_122602262

How will there be total gridlock if the gates are open nearly half the time, and it won’t be that number every hour?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122602283#Comment_122602283

There have been more than enough safety incidents with the level crossings that all should be closed permanently.

expectationlost

the howth shuttle will come in on the centre platform … its on the way home ppl will have to use stairs/lift

antimatterx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122602657#Comment_122602657

The hardship 😉

antimatterx

Ideally yeah. It would be great if the track went under / over ground instead. However that's not happening anytime soon (if ever)!

Citizen Six

Can we lash that 13 billion from Apple into more Dart+? Speed it up a bit. Maybe split it with Metrolink?

Citizen Six

..

expectationlost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122602923#Comment_122602923

???

antimatterx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122602923#Comment_122602923

How does that work? You still need to go over a platform to get to the oher.

expectationlost

Green Party David Healy is against the Howth shuttle too (aswell as Cian O'Callaghan SD, look at his meeting crowd https://www.facebook.com/ocallaghancian/posts/pfbid02cq9N8kRvRXCwU817zZdBuomGCFr1srjme4wYmbDEzaUe8nFtQAQ8XWYudiNuZPwHl?cft[0]=AZXxXOGN-Y3dSDBamPkFtdhw0tSDcnQOVPHRQJABaitqVcu_d9-KEebL-beJe9jDF3Ao0nhOFUUmQIRfU9C_jNAn-BQtRMrnwDxuBLarpKVmRYWwbc_OVAXxql1aTWroVJs1yCEyknmH4ZL5zHgxZIHyUpz-_crsLLFfxIv2dJeMEWk1BdV4V-s0w7rJr2l211GzHFP_Qt5pAPd-L2HFBrzw&tn=%2CO%2CP-R )

https://davidhealy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Dart-plus-north-david-healy-22me23.pdf

Criticising the lack of specifics on what actually will occur, suggest not operating the shuttle in the evening.

(wants an underpass under Howth Junction built, and points out the station was re-built illegally without planing permission)

https://davidhealy.com/?p=1432

https://davidhealy.com/?p=1647

https://davidhealy.com/?p=1765

Minister Eamon Ryan has directed his Department to liaise with the National Transport Office and Iarnród Éireann to ensure that the recommendations from JASPERS (the European Investment Bank’s evaluation unit) for a review of the Howth Junction transfer proposal are implemented.

See this letter for details.

Dear David,
Thank you for discussing the Dart + Coastal North project with me, in particular the
provision of infrastructure to enable transfers at Howth Junction. I understand the concerns of the communities which rely on Howth, Sutton and Bayside stations, as well as of the tourism interests in Howth, all emphasising the importance of the direct rail service.
The review of the DART+ Coastal North project by JASPERS (EIB) recommended as follows:
"Further analysis and public consultations should be made on the ideal operating model for DART+CN, in particular whether or not to enforce transfer at Howth Junction for Howth route trains (with the overall operational consequences this implies). The latter may depend on the potential to ensure an attractive, secure transfer environment at this location. In relation to this, we recommend to seek an independent external design opinion for the Howth Junction upgrade project, and to address residual public and other stakeholder concerns regarding the reduction or elimination of direct services on the Howth branch."
I have asked my Department to follow up to ensure the implementation of this
recommendation by NTA and Iarnród Éireann.
Yours sincerely,
Eamon Ryan T.D.
Minister for Transport

Aoibhinn Tormey FG (who now lives in Sutton Park previously Howth) is wants to protect direct Dart route to Howth according to leaflet in the door last week.

Cathal Haughey FF who lists his address as Feltrim is also strongly against the loss of the direct Dart to Howth

https://www.facebook.com/Cathal.Haughey2/posts/pfbid0Txz6o3gEw1yJEDDMdxQcFNR9W1vj3ArU1muGKhEEk1mQSHYLd9KWgUbtVrUKzRn7l?cft[0]=AZVjTYfHJCNqOScWf8RF1Pabz_u1lxn_MI5jetMP9WsG3tjmyteV_tqXMVs-g1_WZ1AEJ3kwCnwzEKGvhICEZlKjQSQHOh5L1zvh6dB2YR_Xdq93_D6hQZsAN7dVYCh4zxR5x_QiBF7v0f1Ozqwk4XpmYIJpIM4iz39uezQNq8zERH0kKRif7AP1DjsS_TpQxp-AGHB5g9G5bFSIze2qw5wv&tn=%2CO%2CP-R

Cllr. Mícheál Mac Donncha - Sinn Féin who lives in Kilbarrack has highlighted locals concerns about the shuttle service and the Howth Junction station.

https://www.facebook.com/MacDonnchaSF/posts/pfbid0c1rkHTAmiEEHqEajGJUytcoM3MSGC31t8M8CsoDR169dkq5iKgnZMUkhWVGmwheil?cft[0]=AZWWOrJ2h6YkAnLpsJEo-BJ3Ex46OOdAxzL69vyg8s0Bvtca3lIMd85D5kEn2BGw_gY92H9A7uPqQ-t6e7AHHj50nv-GK8mOW2btxR7XvO7YxzEk7g_Evw0oSRQtSdWQgvP5I4juVHjv3-2eS6UFjAAIOwSLyuBsRgXi63DeV8jG0Y09OaqU2B-Hy_CtewXgrQfzUDKDhGqVAgyHwmTVjiG6&tn=%2CO%2CP-R

Aontu local rep Margarernt McGovern opposes shuttle plan https://tfk.thefreekick.com/t/the-official-tfk-local-and-european-elections-thread-2024/38794/223?page=12 although James Morris is the Aontu DBN candidate

antimatterx

Healy is also a Howth resident.

It's amazing how they are against a progressive change because it effects them.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122602912#Comment_122602912

I see people saying spend it on transport, housing etc. We're already not short of money, it's the bloody planning system holding these things up.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122602968#Comment_122602968

Only way around would be a rebuild to make it like Greenford Station in West London, but i don't see this happening.

cgcsb

I'm hearing now at least 3 JRs lodged. One from a car dealership in Ashtown, one from a haulage company in Ashtown and another mystery. 2 years added to timelines now.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122602262#Comment_122602262

I've never understood why the gates stay down for long.

If you're stupid enough to try and drive/walk through a level crossing while the gates are coming down, and get hit by a train… that's on you.

I've often been at Sutton and the gates have been down for approx 5 minutes before the trains arrives, it's excessive, 1 minute is enough.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605598#Comment_122605598

I really hope that's not true! Where did you hear that?

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604350#Comment_122604350

There's been a few people on Newstalk and other stations that have said the country desperately needs a department/minister of Infrastructure.

There are to many entities involved and no centralized point of control with the power to give the others a kick up the h*le.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604044#Comment_122604044

I think the Howth Shuttle is a terrible idea, I know for a fact that that main problem around Howth Junction is the switches there are very old and are prone to failure. When that happens trains going on the northern line are goosed. The idea is to leave the leave the points pointing to the northern line 99% of the time and if a failure does occur it wont effect anything to much.

Leapfrogging slower trains is possible at Clongriffin. The bottle neck is Connolly, and there is very little that can be easily done to improve it.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605598#Comment_122605598

Lodging a JR does not equal a hearing being granted.

The courts could yet refuse them.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605710#Comment_122605710

How long does that still delay everything at a minimum?

antimatterx

Jesus, the solution to their issues is to remove a Dart service. The 7:31 Dart from Clongriffin to Bray is gone from Monday. It's busy enough with the services they do run.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605671#Comment_122605671

"I know for a fact that that main problem around Howth Junction is the switches there are very old and are prone to failure. When that happens trains going on the northern line are goosed. The idea is to leave the leave the points pointing to the northern line 99% of the time and if a failure does occur it wont effect anything to much."

That may be true now, but it will have zero bearing on service patterns after DART+… in the middle of a multi-year rework of every rail corridor approaching Dublin, including re-signalling and electrifying the Northern Line, and at a time when all the specialist rail laying and maintenance teams are there on the ground, IÉ are not just going to leave a critical set of worn-out switches in place.

There is nothing to prevent direct Howth services being run in addition to shuttles. The throughput diagrams that are published are for peak hours only: outside of peak times, it could make sense to revert to a mix of Howth and Drogheda services from Connolly. These are all things that will be decided when the lines are up and running - people getting angry about them now are wasting their time: no change of services will be considered without ridership figures.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605710#Comment_122605710

Depending on the courts to deny a JR is a long shot, I'd think. The courts accepted the review from that Malahide road woman, and she didn't even go in with any representation at all, so I'd say they'll all get into the review.

prunudo

is there a reason people leave objections and/or JR till the 11th hour or is it just to be spiteful.

Thunder87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122606026#Comment_122606026

Are there any plans to upgrade Howth Junction station as part of the works? If it's going to be a forced interchange station then as a minimum it should at least have covered platforms

spillit67

The system just does not work anymore.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122606201#Comment_122606201

Solicitors generally take their sweet time on everything.

Other than that, there might be some last minute negotiation before one is launched.

Flinty997

What's JR?

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122606397#Comment_122606397

Judicial review, basically the means through which someone can sue to make the courts consider a planning application

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122606405#Comment_122606405

Cheers