DART+ (DART Expansion)

CatInABox

namloc1980 wrote: »

Who's the Junior Minister for Keeping an eye on the Greens Road policy?

Hildeguarde Naughton.

Personally, I don't think that too much will change, apart from a massive increase in spending on active transport projects, first on the planning side and later on the actual implementation.

Tomrota

CatInABox wrote: »

Hildeguarde Naughton.

Personally, I don't think that too much will change, apart from a massive increase in spending on active transport projects, first on the planning side and later on the actual implementation.

So DART underground could be back on the table?

CatInABox

Tomrota wrote: »

So DART underground could be back on the table?

No, not really, at least not in a way that'd change anything. Metrolink, BusConnects, Finglas Luas, CMATS, the new BusConnects for the regional cities, they'll all be a higher priority in my opinion.

They'll probably start looking at plans for DU again though, but that would have happened as Metrolink came to a close design wise anyway, at least in my opinion.

ncounties

Based on the progress so far, when do we think we'd see DART services at Drumcondra?

cgcsb

ncounties wrote: »

Based on the progress so far, when do we think we'd see DART services at Drumcondra?

2372.

No seriously this won't happen the project is being managed by CIE so forget about it. The trains might become hybrid though.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

2372.

No seriously this won't happen the project is being managed by CIE so forget about it. The trains might become hybrid though.

What a stupid glib comment.

Pretty much every investment project that Irish Rail has carried out in recent years has been delivered on time and within budget.

The problem isn’t at project management or delivery stage, it’s at the political level.

People need to move on from this kind of nonsense.

Carawaystick

ncounties wrote: »

With DART expansion, would it be feasible that a station could be introduced at Ballybough road? With the development potential of the area, and the fact that it would be located >1km than any other station, this would, to me at least, appear to make sense.

Building an entrance to Connolly at Seville place would be a very quick win, to allow access to all lines served from Connolly. Its a half a mile walk from the north end of P7 to the street 40m away. Also connecting the north end of platforms saves a long walk from the inside platforms to P6/7.

Sam Russell

Carawaystick wrote: »

Building an entrance to Connolly at Seville place would be a very quick win, to allow access to all lines served from Connolly. Its a half a mile walk from the north end of P7 to the street 40m away. Also connecting the north end of platforms saves a long walk from the inside platforms to P6/7.

Sounds like a good proposal, along with opening the entrance from Amien St. That was supposed to be open some time ago, but still closed.

cgcsb

LXFlyer wrote: »

What a stupid glib comment.

Pretty much every investment project that Irish Rail has carried out in recent years has been delivered on time and within budget.

The problem isn’t at project management or delivery stage, it’s at the political level.

People need to move on from this kind of nonsense.

Like the 2hour Dublin to Cork journey that was going to be coming in circa 2018 thanks to track replacement. Ended up just not happening. No more said about it. They still will not schedule a train between Dublin and Belfast to arrive in either city by 9am. That's before you consider the bridge a that they let literally fall into the sea.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

Like the 2hour Dublin to Cork journey that was going to be coming in circa 2018 thanks to track replacement. Ended up just not happening. No more said about it. They still will not schedule a train between Dublin and Belfast to arrive in either city by 9am. That's before younger into the bridge a that they let literally fall into the sea.

The Cork track bed was found to need greater work than originally thought necessary due to the pounding from the Class 201 locomotives - there is going to be a complete relay taking place - the track bed work is ongoing. The level crossings south of Limerick Junction are currently being eliminated, and the down platform at Limerick Junction is in place..

The ballast cleaning work needed to be done - the relay will deliver far longer term benefits.

I’m not sure what the Dublin/Belfast schedule has to do with capital investment being delivered - neither company has committed to a pre-9 am arrival prior to now. I’m not sure what relevance that has to projects such as DART expansion being delivered? Realistically for that to happen more trains would be required - you’re only going to have one path per hour.

We all know that the Malahide Viaduct collapse shouldn’t have happened, and it was a disgrace, but plenty of capital investment projects have been delivered.

cgcsb

LXFlyer wrote: »

The Cork track bed was found to need greater work than originally thought necessary due to the pounding from the Class 201 locomotives - there is going to be a complete relay taking place - the track bed work is ongoing. The level crossings south of Limerick Junction are currently being eliminated, and the down platform at Limerick Junction is in place..

Have you an inside source because I can't actually see anywhere on the internet where they explain this folly to the tax payer.

LXFlyer wrote: »

I’m not sure what the Dublin/Belfast schedule has to do with capital investment being delivered - neither company has committed to a pre-9 am arrival prior to now. I’m not sure what relevance that has to projects such as DART expansion being delivered? Realistically for that to happen more trains would be required - you’re only going to have one path per hour.

It demonstrates organisational ability. If you are the company tasked with operating the intercity rail network and you fail to deliver a pre-9am connection between the 2 biggest cities. That is an utter failure. It simply would not be tolerated in any other European country. Can you imagine that anywhere else? Try telling the tax payers of Denmark that they'll not be able to get between Odnese and Copenhagen for a 9am meeting by train and they'll have drive instead.

LXFlyer wrote: »

We all know that the Malahide Viaduct collapse shouldn’t have happened, and it was a disgrace, but plenty of capital investment projects have been delivered.

It's beyond a disgrace especially when it was inspected only a few weeks before the incident and the recommendations from the report marked 'urgent' were ignored.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

Have you an inside source because I can't actually see anywhere on the internet where they explain this folly to the tax payer.



It demonstrates organisational ability. If you are the company tasked with operating the intercity rail network and you fail to deliver a pre-9am connection between the 2 biggest cities. That is an utter failure. It simply would not be tolerated in any other European country. Can you imagine that anywhere else? Try telling the tax payers of Denmark that they'll not be able to get between Odnese and Copenhagen for a 9am meeting by train and they'll have drive instead.


It's beyond a disgrace especially when it was inspected only a few weeks before the incident and the recommendations from the report marked 'urgent' were ignored.

None of this stuff has anything to do with DART expansion and the ability to deliver it.

You're just going off on tangents, ignoring the fact that various other projects including all of the line re-signalling projects, trackwork changes etc. have been delivered on time.

DART expansion is the most likely of the rail projects to be delivered, and frankly it has to be delivered. We don't have a choice.

cgcsb

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it delivered. Can't see it happening though. The delivery date for all elements of DART Expansion (excl undergound) is 2027 and we're nowhere near putting the wires up and closing crossings on any part of it, so at this point it's safe to say it won't be entirely delivered by 2027. I've no doubt we'll get hybrid train sets branded as DART before then at an increased frequency but I doubt the project will get much further than that by 2027. Eelctrification to Maynooth was also included in the National Transport Integrated Implementation Plan 2013-2018, but was never done.

D.L.R.

cgcsb wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it delivered. Can't see it happening though. The delivery date for all elements of DART Expansion (excl undergound) is 2027 and we're nowhere near putting the wires up and closing crossings on any part of it, so at this point it's safe to say it won't be entirely delivered by 2027. I've no doubt we'll get hybrid train sets branded as DART before then at an increased frequency but I doubt the project will get much further than that by 2027. Eelctrification to Maynooth was also included in the National Transport Integrated Implementation Plan 2013-2018, but was never done.

Its snails pace stuff. The state isn't serious about rail. They've been waffling on about the city centre resignalling program for 10 years and its still not done. Kildare Rail project still not done. Metro South cancelled. Level crossing program still not done. We'll close Merrion Gates ahhh but not right now.

Does anyone seriously think they can organise a project like Dart Underground?

LXFlyer

D.L.R. wrote: »

Its snails pace stuff. The state isn't serious about rail. They've been waffling on about the city centre resignalling program for 10 years and its still not done. Kildare Rail project still not done. Metro South cancelled. Level crossing program still not done. We'll close Merrion Gates ahhh but not right now.

Does anyone seriously think they can organise a project like Dart Underground?

Again the issue is a political one. That’s where the delays are happening.

The projects are deliverable - but they need the political will to do so. That’s when you hit the brick wall that is the civil service.

Incidentally, as I understand it, the final phase of the city centre resignalling project which is Connolly Station is due to be commissioned this Autumn. The signals are, I believe, physically in place.

The Kildare route project was delivered. Anything between Heuston and the quad-tracking always fell under DART underground (now DART expansion), as it depended upon where the tunnel portals were going to be located (Inchicore or Heuston).

D.L.R.

LXFlyer wrote: »

Again the issue is a political one. That’s where the delays are happening.

The projects are deliverable - but they need the political will to do so. That’s when you hit the brick wall that is the civil service.

Incidentally, as I understand it, the final phase of the city centre resignalling project which is Connolly Station is due to be commissioned this Autumn.

That's good news, but it should have been delivered 5 years ago.

Projects like DU don't just need political will, they need political DETERMINATION, because they're not easy and will always encounter push back. The state always seems to fold on the slightest public objection. Look at Metrolink - a sewer pipe and a level crossing scuppered the entire Southern half of the project. Pathetic!

More backbone required.

cgcsb

D.L.R. wrote: »

Its snails pace stuff. The state isn't serious about rail. They've been waffling on about the city centre resignalling program for 10 years and its still not done. Kildare Rail project still not done. Metro South cancelled. Level crossing program still not done. We'll close Merrion Gates ahhh but not right now.

Does anyone seriously think they can organise a project like Dart Underground?

That's what I'm saying, if the politics won't allow closure of merrion gates then politics won't allow DART expansion, at least not as extensive as the planned works are. My prediction is that Hybrid trains will be branded as DART as a 'temporary' measure and then it'll be forgotten about. In 2027, if there is a frequent electric DART service covering all commuter routes, anyone feel free to quote this post and tell me I was wrong.

Sam Russell

cgcsb wrote: »

That's what I'm saying, if the politics won't allow closure of merrion gates then politics won't allow DART expansion, at least not as extensive as the planned works are. My prediction is that Hybrid trains will be branded as DART as a 'temporary' measure and then it'll be forgotten about. In 2027, if there is a frequent electric DART service covering all commuter routes, anyone feel free to quote this post and tell me I was wrong.

The Merrion Gates was not a stand alone project and was not even part of a Dart project. It was part of a cycling initiative and failed because of the requirement to take a few metres of front gardens on the Merrion Road to provide bus lane and cycle lanes.

It was a clever solution using back to back car parks to cross the line. It could be resuscitated, but I would prefer it to be an underpass than a bridge.

L1011

Sam Russell wrote: »

Sounds like a good proposal, along with opening the entrance from Amien St. That was supposed to be open some time ago, but still closed.

I don't believe there was any solid proposal to reopen it. Various people have called for it but nothing from Irish Rail

They are currently proposing - DCC planning file 2848/20 - to permanently remove it from use by converting it to offices.

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

I don't believe there was any solid proposal to reopen it. Various people have called for it but nothing from Irish Rail

They are currently proposing - DCC planning file 2848/20 - to permanently remove it from use by converting it to offices.

The various anti-social behaviour events that happened there over the years, and there were an awful lot of them, some quite serious (and this was when it was actually staffed), I suspect militate against that second entrance to Connolly.

As you say there has never been a formal proposal to re-open that entrance, only suggestions here, and it's now earmarked for offices.

ncounties

Where exactly on Amien Street would this entrance be?

LXFlyer

ncounties wrote: »

Where exactly on Amien Street would this entrance be?

The building is still there - just beyond the overbridge.

MJohnston

The under construction Connolly Quarter SHD will include a direct link to Connolly Station:

Rulmeq

LXFlyer wrote: »

The building is still there - just beyond the overbridge.

This one? https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3524693,-6.2492025,3a,19.3y,87.25h,90.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFRLJocXEKQSH74XsqVdAag!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

LXFlyer

That's it.

L1011

LXFlyer wrote: »

The various anti-social behaviour events that happened there over the years, and there were an awful lot of them, some quite serious (and this was when it was actually staffed), I suspect militate against that second entrance to Connolly.

As you say there has never been a formal proposal to re-open that entrance, only suggestions here, and it's now earmarked for offices.

Were those not primarily related to it having a public toilet right inside the door, which basically became an unsupervised, uncontrolled injection centre?

Fixing the problems rather than moving them elsewhere / cutting off ones nose is the proper thing to do.

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

Were those not primarily related to it having a public toilet right inside the door, which basically became an unsupervised, uncontrolled injection centre?

Fixing the problems rather than moving them elsewhere / cutting off ones nose is the proper thing to do.

No. Several serious assaults on staff as I understand it.

The main station allows for better supervision and is that bit further away from the street to deter the local protagonists.

L1011

LXFlyer wrote: »

No. Several serious assaults on staff as I understand it.

The main station allows for better supervision and is that bit further away from the street to deter the local protagonists.

The area has been dragged somewhat upmarket since (Foley Street building and so on) and I would realistically expect it to be completely unstaffed like the secondary entrances to Tara and Pearse these days. TVMs and a barrier line.

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

The area has been dragged somewhat upmarket since (Foley Street building and so on) and I would realistically expect it to be completely unstaffed like the secondary entrances to Tara and Pearse these days. TVMs and a barrier line.

I’m afraid that you’re rather mistaken as it certainly has not been dragged upmarket to the degree you imagine.

I work very close to that building normally, and frankly Amiens Street and the surrounds is as bad as it ever was in terms of on-street drug dealing and anti-social behaviour.

I am also not sure that my three work colleagues who were mugged on separate occasions in the last 12 months on that street would agree with your rather rose-tinted assessment.

It is still far from “upmarket”. Sure there are some new offices but there’s a lot of social problems in that area. It is safe to say that I've seen things from my office window that you would be highly unlikely to see around the secondary entrances to Tara and Pearse. It is eye opening to say the least!

It’s a moot discussion in any case as that entrance is not going to reopen.

L1011

Worked in the area for two years - found the pigeons under the bridges more of a risk than any of the people; but I was usually away by 5:30.