DART+ (DART Expansion)

MJohnston

Anyway...

I don’t think a new Naas DART station is a bad idea, but it definitely doesn’t need to go into the town centre.

What Naas needs imo is something like the Dunboyne M3 Parkway station - massive park and ride well connected to a major motorway, somewhat outside of the town itself. Maybe just to the west of Sallins.

The main issue is always going to be the 7km of green fields between Kill and Rathcoole. One could argue that there could be enough usage from park and riders from Kildare town and Newbridge, but that’s a fair distance for a hypothetical DART to travel without anywhere worth stopping.

BonnieSituation

ncounties wrote: »

The Main Street. Yes. No (What does that matter?). The fact that it is an expansive town at present, is exactly why we need to tackle it. We don't need even more urban sprawl on the island, which promotes the use of vehicles. And there's plenty of space. Within 85-200m (which ever way you like to look at it) of the Main St there is green fields, all the way to the existing line.
Extend a DART there, create a development plan that involves denser housing and office space close to the Main Street and you'd could transform the town.

Wait, you're suggesting we build "brand new track"?

Get out!

Where do you think this is, Victorian Ireland?

---

I had the pleasure of heading from the Harbour to Sallins for about a year back in 2017 and yeah, i can only imagine the joy of getting on a town centre train station.

But you see, this is Ireland, so let's not try.

A train station within a couple of minutes walk of main Street with a regular service to Dublin would transform the town. And would make it a viable place to live and disincentivise the awful sprawl that is the norm.

That's what transport hubs do the world over to deny that is just bizarre.

BonnieSituation

MJohnston wrote: »

Anyway...

I don’t think a new Naas DART station is a bad idea, but it definitely doesn’t need to go into the town centre.

What Naas needs imo is something like the Dunboyne M3 Parkway station - massive park and ride well connected to a major motorway, somewhat outside of the town itself. Maybe just to the west of Sallins.

The main issue is always going to be the 7km of green fields between Kill and Rathcoole. One could argue that there could be enough usage from park and riders from Kildare town and Newbridge, but that’s a fair distance for a hypothetical DART to travel without anywhere worth stopping.

Again it would be typical of us not to think about adding a station there and making it a local hub.

Unfortunately the train line goes where it goes, but use that to your advantage. Regular local bus services to join Celbridge, Newcastle, Rathcoole, Kill and "New Station" would again boost the business case for expanding the service.

Though, look at how they have handled Kishoge thus far. Imagine if thousands of people actually lived within 15min walk of it and on a bus route to boot they might actually open it and let them use it... Oh... Wait...

ncounties

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Wait, you're suggesting we build "brand new track"?

Get out!

Where do you think this is, Victorian Ireland?

---

I had the pleasure of heading from the Harbour to Sallins for about a year back in 2017 and yeah, i can only imagine the joy of getting on a town centre train station.

But you see, this is Ireland, so let's not try.

A train station within a couple of minutes walk of main Street with a regular service to Dublin would transform the town. And would make it a viable place to live and disincentivise the awful sprawl that is the norm.

That's what transport hubs do the world over to deny that is just bizarre.

Ah sure isn't this the reason we have the infrastructure we do in this country. If you look at satellite imagery of Naas, there is clear sprawl towards the NE where it's "best" infrastructure to Dublin is. You'd hope soon, local planning would stop this continued sprawl, and want the NW to be developed. When/if that happens, the relatively simple access for rail to [what could be] the heart of the town [again] would be lost.

But sure, 14km of additional electrified line, and three km of new track across green fields is just pure crazy talk, and additionally what the hell would I know, I only have a Transport Planning Degree (albeit I don't work in the field) and I'm posting on a forum that is supposed to welcome and discuss "outside the box" thinking.

MJohnston wrote:

What Naas needs imo is something like the Dunboyne M3 Parkway station - massive park and ride well connected to a major motorway, somewhat outside of the town itself. Maybe just to the west of Sallins.

The main issue is always going to be the 7km of green fields between Kill and Rathcoole. One could argue that there could be enough usage from park and riders from Kildare town and Newbridge, but that’s a fair distance for a hypothetical DART to travel without anywhere worth stopping.

I definitely agree that this would be beneficial to the town as well, and alone would be beneficial to the town, but I'd prefer for both new stations to be added. I also appreciate the point over distance, but longer term, I am sure other towns and villages will develop along the line, and the opportunity for additional stations will be there, but in the meantime, the lack of stopping would make the DART even more competitive with car based transport.

But anyway, it probably won't happen... Naas will continue to sprawl NE-ward, and the M7/N7 will be continually upgraded over the next 20/30 years until it is six lanes in each direction, and everyone will be scratching their head wondering why there is still congestion.

cgcsb

I'd much rather 3 or 4 bus corridors were built in naas including one to Sallins with frequent local bus services on all routes and the Sallins route being free to use.

riddlinrussell

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd much rather 3 or 4 bus corridors were built in naas including one to Sallins with frequent local bus services on all routes and the Sallins route being free to use.

I think this is the most viable way forward.

If rail were to be reinstated to Naas, its hard to see where the route would go to still reach the centre. But 'if' it were ever to happen, I'd say Naas town should be the end of the Dart route, link in east of Sallins to 4 track into the city, meanwhile Sallins becomes the 'long distance' station, itself or Celbridge being the last stop to Heuston, and outward stoppers either allowing access to all outward routes or being timed to allow easy transfer to an intercity at Newbridge or Kildare without an hours wait.

EDIT: I think it was proposed before, but a better alternative to a 'Central' Naas Station might be a Dart Spur going to Johnstown/Junction 9 roundabout, the old factory site there would provide the basis for ample park and ride capacity and the spur route could pass pretty much unimpeded from there to meet the main line. Your biggest issue is getting under/over the Motorway. Plus its already naturally on the bus routes from Naas to Dublin

Kevtherev1

I meant to post about Kishoge station recently. On google streetview it set summer 2019 you can see the construction work happening.


Drove past kishoge train station 10 days ago. The work is complete with all access roads and large car park completed, ready to open. It really looked great.

Tomrota

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I think this is the most viable way forward.

If rail were to be reinstated to Naas, its hard to see where the route would go to still reach the centre. But 'if' it were ever to happen, I'd say Naas town should be the end of the Dart route, link in east of Sallins to 4 track into the city, meanwhile Sallins becomes the 'long distance' station, itself or Celbridge being the last stop to Heuston, and outward stoppers either allowing access to all outward routes or being timed to allow easy transfer to an intercity at Newbridge or Kildare without an hours wait.

EDIT: I think it was proposed before, but a better alternative to a 'Central' Naas Station might be a Dart Spur going to Johnstown/Junction 9 roundabout, the old factory site there would provide the basis for ample park and ride capacity and the spur route could pass pretty much unimpeded from there to meet the main line. Your biggest issue is getting under/over the Motorway. Plus its already naturally on the bus routes from Naas to Dublin

https://ibb.co/9v7tyNM
This would be best, and it would relieve some serious amounts of traffic on the N7 and going to Dublin.

Despite Naas’ population explosion, the area will end up not being included in DART expansion, isn’t included in BusConnects (or any integrated fare system), currently doesn’t have LEAP cap/LEAP 90 integration, and the public bus services it does have aren’t great. For example the 126 or 139 doesn’t allow connections so someone going from Johnstown to Maynooth must pay two full fares there and two full fares back.

And that’s why the N7 is packed to complete capacity, Naas will continue to be forgotten, and I can’t see public transport improving in the Naas area over the next decade at all. And that’s despite the thousands of houses being built there too. Most people have only one option- a car. What a beautiful town with such bad political representation.

Grandeeod

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Wait, you're suggesting we build "brand new track"?

Get out!

Where do you think this is, Victorian Ireland?

---

I had the pleasure of heading from the Harbour to Sallins for about a year back in 2017 and yeah, i can only imagine the joy of getting on a town centre train station.

But you see, this is Ireland, so let's not try.

A train station within a couple of minutes walk of main Street with a regular service to Dublin would transform the town. And would make it a viable place to live and disincentivise the awful sprawl that is the norm.

That's what transport hubs do the world over to deny that is just bizarre.

Hang on a second Bonnie. You are seriously suggesting that a station within a couple of minutes walk from Naas main street would transform the town? Maybe in 1990, but not now. No room and no point. All this populace talk about sprawl and transport hubs, does not and will not make Naas relevant at this stage. Its too late. A P&R west of Sallins on the existing line with feeder buses too, combined with DART extension could be a runner. I lived in Naas for 25 years and saw all the mistakes been made year after year. These are mistakes that can't be undone like so many similar towns across the country. If there's money to be spent with DART Expansion, don't waste it on a spur to Naas.

EDIT - As I said below to the poster that proposed the idea, I don't want to derail the thread and it could maybe be a discussion in a different thread as its not part of DART expansion.

Grandeeod

ncounties wrote: »

But sure, 14km of additional electrified line, and three km of new track across green fields is just pure crazy talk, and additionally what the hell would I know, I only have a Transport Planning Degree (albeit I don't work in the field) and I'm posting on a forum that is supposed to welcome and discuss "outside the box" thinking.

I don't wish to have any kind of row with you, but your Transport Planning Degree regardless of you not working in the field, does not qualify you to be right about the Naas area. Its speculative and I apologise for being a bit blunt towards your suggestion earlier in the thread. This particular thread is not about "thinking outside the box". Its about DART expansion as proposed. I have often been directed towards other threads or starting my own if my opinion is not thread relevant.

ncounties

Grandeeod wrote: »

I don't wish to have any kind of row with you, but your Transport Planning Degree regardless of you not working in the field, does not qualify you to be right about the Naas area. Its speculative and I apologise for being a bit blunt towards your suggestion earlier in the thread. This particular thread is not about "thinking outside the box". Its about DART expansion as proposed. I have often been directed towards other threads or starting my own if my opinion is not thread relevant.

The only reason I brought it up is because you post in the most aggressive manner and try to imply that everyone else’s opinion is null and void. Yes the thread is about expansion and my post is about how the current expansion proposals should go further. I’m no longer going to interact with you, and I hope you appreciate that. Good bye.

L1011

Ann Graham told KCC (as in the full council) this morning that the Maynooth line public consultation period is "shortly"

Peregrine

L1011 wrote: »

Ann Graham told KCC this morning that the Maynooth line public consultation period is "shortly"

I was going to ask what the delay was. Last month, it was supposed to be in July. Maybe they pushed it out to facilitate Luas Finglas.

BonnieSituation

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

I meant to post about Kishoge station recently. On google streetview it set summer 2019 you can see the construction work happening.


Drove past kishoge train station 10 days ago. The work is complete with all access roads and large car park completed, ready to open. It really looked great.

I'm really glad I live in Islandbridge now. :rolleyes:

loyatemu

I see from the Fingluas consultation the Dart expansion is now called "Dart+"

Niall Finnegan

loyatemu wrote: »

I see from the Fingluas consultation the Dart expansion is now called "Dart+"

Hopefully this means there's some upcoming news on the project

cgcsb

great another rebranding, any chance of it being built.

Shedite27

https://www.luasfinglas.ie/#/map
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057866432&page=14

LeinsterDub

Niall Finnegan wrote: »

Hopefully this means there's some upcoming news on the project

Public consultation due to start soon

crushproof

loyatemu wrote: »

I see from the Fingluas consultation the Dart expansion is now called "Dart+"

Easy few thousand quid for the marketing genius who came up with that.

cgcsb

crushproof wrote: »

Easy few thousand quid for the marketing genius who came up with that.

Exactly. Who needs simple but effective things like integrated ticketing, a streamlined design-build-operate procedure for new projects or affordable fares when you can have 5 rounds of public consultation per scheme, glossy brochures coming out the yazoo, a couple of changes to the bus livery per year and let another office newyear party go by with no progress on major projects and only marginal improvements to existing(dire by first world standards) services.

ncounties

What's going to be the new name for DART Underground/Interconnector... "DART -"?

loyatemu

ncounties wrote: »

What's going to be the new name for DART Underground/Interconnector... "DART -"?

DARK

Kevtherev1

ncounties wrote: »

What's going to be the new name for DART Underground/Interconnector... "DART -"?

They might ape the germans calling it U-Dart +
Wheres my check? lol

Sam Russell

.... just DURT - Dart Underground Rapid Transit.

ncounties

Sam Russell wrote: »

.... just DURT - Dart Underground Rapid Transit.

Ha!

loyatemu

Sam Russell wrote: »

.... just DURT - Dart Underground Rapid Transit.

so the existing line could be Dublin Overground Rapid Transit, or the DORT, which is what they already call it in Blackrock.

highdef

Sam Russell wrote: »

.... just DURT - Dart Underground Rapid Transit.

I read that as Dublin Area Rapid Transit Underground Rapid Transit ???

Sam Russell

highdef wrote: »

I read that as Dublin Area Rapid Transit Underground Rapid Transit ???

Your right, Dublin Underground Rapid Transport - but over analysing a joke never improves it.

SeanW

loyatemu wrote: »

so the existing line could be Dublin Overground Rapid Transit, or the DORT, which is what they already call it in Blackrock.

They would need to call it "DORSH" for that but alas I cannot think of an acronym that would fit