Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I'm no Varadkar fan but him and Harris communicated fantastically. Everything was described in detail and explained properly. We're getting lots of mixed signals here.
Like I still cannot understand why the outdoor gatherings weren't increased for sport...

I wouldn't agree with this entirely.

I think Vradkar, Coveney and Harris were good at getting the message across once things became realer than real around March. But, while the circumstances of the situation were difficult, I think the simplicity of the message they had to deliver was more clear cut. Lock it down. Stay at home. Don't go out. Black and white. There was no time frame to give either. It was just happening now and it would eventually end, in theory, sometime in the future.

Right at the beginning this was primarily thought of as just a clear and present danger to public health. People just wanted to be told what to do in the most simple and basic terms.

And their message didn't have to deviate from the public health advice: their message was the public health advice.

Even Vradkar said it's easy to lock a society down, but much more challenging to open it up again. And it obviously is. Once people aren't scared out of their wits the message you have to deliver becomes a lot more complex. It isn't just a blunt, close it all down and don't go anywhere. It becomes a question of what can open, why can it open, how come we can't do this and we can do that? And then there's all the competing voices trying to get heard at once - what about this sector or that sector etc, etc, etc.

It becomes fcking messy. And you have to dance and feel your way through it. And people are now most concerned about all that other stuff they didn't care about in March. And they want definite answers and dates from a totally unknown, brand new and dynamic situation.

The message becomes more complicated, when the situation becomes more complicated. And while I think there's no question Vradkar is a far better communicator than Micheal Martin, I think he had an easier task. No colition partners to worry about, a population who just wanted to be told what to do, a situation that required simple public health advice, muted opposition voices etc, etc, etc.

And as it turns out I don't think Vradkar and co were perfect either. After that first flush, they were AWOL for weeks on end, the only man delivering any message was Tony Holohan. When things were really bad in early April, Vradkar certainly wasn't out day after day briefing the media. FF haven't been great at times, commications wise, but Leo and Simon had less lateral thinking to do and conviently hid behind the CMO for weeks - so I wouldn't say they were flawless in their own right.

podgeandrodge wrote: »

How were they debating until a couple of days ago whether to open up all pubs without food, only to conclude not to today and also pull the restaurants/pub restaurants back to 11pm?

Because case numbers have clearly begun to rise (7 day average).

Spain by the way announced 8,500 new cases over the weekend. Much of their new outbreak has been traced back to pubs & clubs, and clearly they have a significant problem now.

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Yeah, but a couple of days ago they hadn't decided, and the hour earlier 11pm thing is ott for a minor increase in cases imo.

Well, they clearly decided because they had to make a decision - what were you expecting them to do? The easier decision would have been to allow pubs to open, but they'd probably then be explaining to the public in a few weeks why schools couldn't reopen.

I didn't hear the rationale behind the 11pm thing, but if there is supposed to be a 90 minute limit it shouldn't affect pubs and restaurants who are operating within the rules. I assume it is targeted at places which aren't. Personally I think it would be better if those places were shut down in a very public manner to get the message across.

hmmm wrote: »

Well, they clearly decided because they had to make a decision - what were you expecting them to do? The easier decision would have been to allow pubs to open, but they'd probably then be explaining to the public in a few weeks why schools couldn't reopen.

I didn't hear the rationale behind the 11pm thing, but if there is supposed to be a 90 minute limit it shouldn't affect pubs and restaurants who are operating within the rules. I assume it is targeted at places which aren't. Personally I think it would be better if those places were shut down in a very public manner to get the message across.

I think we've all heard the "we booked a table for seven and we were still there at half twelve" stories. I think if you were maybe the last booking of the evening in some places - a lot of places - it wasn't unusual to be left to it and the time you might have to leave was ill-defined at best. That wishy washyness was definitely being exploited, particularly at weekends. I suppose the thinking is having a definite set time might cut down on this.

But, then again, the question is enforcement. It's all well and good having all these rules and pumping us full of PR about "Garda Presence" and the spectre of pubs losing their licence, but it doesn't mean anything if it doesn't amount to reality.

We all know the rules regarding "restaurants" have been bent, broken and in some cases done away with altogether. I could list off dozens of pubs where all this is going on. It's a joke having these rules if they blatantly aren't going to be followed. And they blatantly aren't being followed.

Arghus wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with this entirely.

I think Vradkar, Coveney and Harris were good at getting the message across once things became realer than real around March. But, while the circumstances of the situation were difficult, I think the simplicity of the message they had to deliver was more clear cut. Lock it down. Stay at home. Don't go out. Black and white. There was no time frame to give either. It was just happening now and it would eventually end, in theory, sometime in the future.

Right at the beginning this was primarily thought of as just a clear and present danger to public health. People just wanted to be told what to do in the most simple and basic terms.

And their message didn't have to deviate from the public health advice: their message was the public health advice.

Even Vradkar said it's easy to lock a society down, but much more challenging to open it up again. And it obviously is. Once people aren't scared out of their wits the message you have to deliver becomes a lot more complex. It isn't just a blunt, close it all down and don't go anywhere. It becomes a question of what can open, why can it open, how come we can't do this and we can do that? And then there's all the competing voices trying to get heard at once - what about this sector or that sector etc, etc, etc.

It becomes fcking messy. And you have to dance and feel your way through it. And people are now most concerned about all that other stuff they didn't care about in March. And they want definite answers and dates from a totally unknown, brand new and dynamic situation.

The message becomes more complicated, when the situation becomes more complicated. And while I think there's no question Vradkar is a far better communicator than Micheal Martin, I think he had an easier task. No colition partners to worry about, a population who just wanted to be told what to do, a situation that required simple public health advice, muted opposition voices etc, etc, etc.

And as it turns out I don't think Vradkar and co were perfect either. After that first flush, they were AWOL for weeks on end, the only man delivering any message was Tony Holohan. When things were really bad in early April, Vradkar certainly wasn't out day after day briefing the media. FF haven't been great at times, commications wise, but Leo and Simon had less lateral thinking to do and conviently hid behind the CMO for weeks - so I wouldn't say they were flawless in their own right.

Why do I read your posts in the old man's voice? Probably your avatar. Where is it from?

normanoffside wrote: »

The fact that we still have a lower 14 day incidence of infection than Germany, Iceland or Denmark should maybe be a clue that we are going to have to accept we are going to get 40-50 infections per day for the foreseeable and just get on with it.

Why not compare us with Finland or even Italy?

bodhrandude wrote: »

On Saturday or Sunday there was positive cases at Sheridan's pub and restaurant in Milltown, County Galway.

Friday they closed because of 1 case linked to a worker who had no contact with the public, is it genuinely too much to ask for the truth.......

Lighten up, not everyone knows every detail about every case.


City Enters Phase 4 Of Pretending Coronavirus Over
https://local.theonion.com/city-enters-phase-4-of-pretending-coronavirus-over-1844037065

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Does anyone know why casinos have to remain closed?

It's not exactly Las Vegas here and from my limited time in casinos here, it's not a place they serve alcohol.

Imagine how many common surfaces are involved; how many common playing table items change hands and how often. Chips, cards, dice, etc.

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

That can be said about anything though, so many surfaces people touch. If only there was a way to contain respiratory droplets from people, so that things don't get covered in viral particles.

Sure they're saying now that surface particles aren't a big factor in the spread. Even if it was, its easy enough to greatly reduce the risk with frequent hand washing.

Imagine basically Ronan Glynn is our Taoiseach.

A man in his late 30s with no experience of public life or its consequences.

Health officials cannot lead government.

Normal life cannot continue with this stasis.

Hundreds if not thousands of Irish die each year from cancer, is there a story on the news?

Life is a tragedy. We need to get the hell on with our lives and stop this madness.

Protect the weak and old.

Don't go have massive chin wag with your granny or gramps in their face.

We all have a time, but this is just an added risk and to deny our children education and us a life due to a small risk of developing bad symptoms is inhumane.

The consequences of our militant reaction will be paid for decades to come.

Places like Germany etc are living with this disease, life continues with masks and appropriate social distancing.

We need to cop the fcuk on and start fixing the damage this has done. Certainly our actions have created more damage than the disease. No doubt.