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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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Comments

  • #7952
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    How fast is testing these days ?

    So, I have a cough and a temp. I keep the Kids home and try to get tested asap. If a get a (negative) result fairly fast, then it wouldn't be the full 14 days.

    Family member got results in 48 hours. My concerns with testing is we are currently at low levels with low community spread. Family member knew it was sinus but dr insisted that she be tested and no anti b until she did. While this is good practice can you imagine the stress on testing in Winter for any cold , flu , viral infection like illness. What will capacity and turn around be like then and will schools be prioritised?


  • #7953
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    It's not really a fair point. Who'll pay me to mind my kids if they get sick?

    Teachers aren't the first to go back to work

    Will employers be happy Parents be taking 2 weeks off all over the place to mind kids isolating?

    Will employers then stop employing parents and just employ single people?


  • #7954
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,443 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    2 Questions (using examples):-

    If I develop a cough or a temp etc, do I have to keep my children at home until I can confirm that it is not Covid-19 ?

    If another child in my son's class tests positive and my son is part of the group told to self-isolate, do I need to also keep my daughter at home (different schools)?

    Thanks

    Not sure about other teachers but I expected that this sort of stuff would have been included in the document. Public health really isn't at the heart of this at all, get em in and stack em high is the attitude.


  • #7955
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    It isn't practical for teachers to work from home, same as bus drivers, plumbers etc. Added to that, education is one of the most important services provided by the state, along with health.

    Yea well. . . I won't be providing a service if I consider at the end of August that the situation is too dangerous.
    I'll resign and resume working when the virus has cleared.


  • #7956
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    Will employers be happy Parents be taking 2 weeks off all over the place to mind kids isolating?

    Will employers then stop employing parents and just employ single people?

    It's not a teacher's job to mind your sick child either tbf


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  • #7957
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Not sure about other teachers but I expected that this sort of stuff would have been included in the document. Public health really isn't at the heart of this at all, get em in and stack em high is the attitude.

    I haven't read every word so was hoping that it was in there somewhere in the documents released and that I missed it !


  • #7958
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,443 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Example one for teachers.

    Teacher has suspected Covid. Has to go for testing. Test comes back positive so panel sub in for whatever length of time. A few days later a different teacher develops symptoms. Test comes back positive. No teachers available from Covid panel locally or in neighbouring countries. No standard subs available and two members of SET also call in sick that day. Class sent home is it?

    These are the sort of scenarios that can and will happen and they aren't looked at in the document. Money is being flung at it to appease the parents and public but no consideration has been given to what happens on the ground.


  • #7959
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    It's not really me that I am talking about the rather some other Parents who tend to dose their Kids with Calpol and send them in and then not answer their phone when the school calls.
    Many don't even waste the Calpol.


  • #7960
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    combat14 wrote: »
    what we need in sept is intensive remote (blended) learning for all teachers even if this delays start of school by a week of two

    the reality is that if there is a second wave at any stage teachers need to be adequately trained to teach online perhaps for the rest of the academic year if needs be

    Sorry, they should be doing it now, not when the children are expecting to go back.


  • #7961
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    These are the sort of scenarios that can and will happen and they aren't looked at in the document. Money is being flung at it to appease the parents and public but no consideration has been given to what happens on the ground.
    In those scenarios public health doctors would step in and make the decision. We can't predict or document every scenario, public health will work with schools if cases arise. The situation is dynamic, and our actions will need to adapt as the external environment (community transmission etc) changes.


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  • #7962
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Example one for teachers.

    Teacher has suspected Covid. Has to go for testing. Test comes back positive so panel sub in for whatever length of time. A few days later a different teacher develops symptoms. Test comes back positive. No teachers available from Covid panel locally or in neighbouring countries. No standard subs available and two members of SET also call in sick that day. Class sent home is it?

    These are the sort of scenarios that can and will happen and they aren't looked at in the document. Money is being flung at it to appease the parents and public but no consideration has been given to what happens on the ground.

    It’s pure optics. The practical day to day stuff that you’ve outlined above that’s what we need. How about children who are sent in sick can the school refuse on public health grounds. What if a child is sent home with covid like symptoms and rocks up the next day my mam says it’s only a cold ? Will children with covid like symptoms need a drs note to say they don’t ?


  • #7963
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Example one for teachers.

    Teacher has suspected Covid. Has to go for testing. Test comes back positive so panel sub in for whatever length of time. A few days later a different teacher develops symptoms. Test comes back positive. No teachers available from Covid panel locally or in neighbouring countries. No standard subs available and two members of SET also call in sick that day. Class sent home is it?

    These are the sort of scenarios that can and will happen and they aren't looked at in the document. Money is being flung at it to appease the parents and public but no consideration has been given to what happens on the ground.

    The class would remain at school under supervision if a suitable teacher cannot be found. If it is a student I'm not entirely sure what the situation is as in secondary schools students have different class mates every 40 minutes for different subjects. Sending home the entire year doesn't seem like it's in the plan if a second level student is determined as having Covid.

    On teacher supply one important factor is this:
    A load of teachers approaching retirement are going to retire early and get out.
    Why risk your health for this?
    If, for example, there is one teacher in each second level school who does this (and there are already two that I know of in my school) then this would eat up the 1000 teachers supposedly being supplied.
    In other words . . . there will be no teachers available for substituting.


  • #7964
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Sorry, they should be doing it now, not when the children are expecting to go back.
    Fully agree. It's almost a scandal this isn't happening right now. We will try to get children back into schools, but there is a relatively high likelihood that it might not work and they have to be sent home - not because of lack of planning, but because the virus situation is not entirely in our control.


  • #7965
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    I wonder how many parents are aware of the procedure if a primary teacher is out sick?

    First, try get a sub. If a sub can't be found, put the SET teacher in to supervise. When the teacher is back in, school can have a sub in on another day as an extra staff member.

    Now when I read that I thought this was great, the sub can work with the SET teacher doing vital catch up sessions for children who missed support time... except that's not what it is. The sub takes the class again and the class teacher works with SET. Thus depriving the class of their teacher for twice as long!

    Honestly if anyone can explain the logic behind it I am all ears, it's baffling me.


  • #7966
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    hmmm wrote: »
    In those scenarios public health doctors would step in and make the decision. We can't predict or document every scenario, public health will work with schools if cases arise. The situation is dynamic, and our actions will need to adapt as the external environment (community transmission etc) changes.

    We don’t need to document every scenario. Any teacher hete can outline 3 - 4 scenarios that are most likely to occur and most likely to cause issues. Having guidance on those should be a basic requirement.


  • #7967
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,443 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    hmmm wrote: »
    In those scenarios public health doctors would step in and make the decision. We can't predict or document every scenario, public health will work with schools if cases arise. The situation is dynamic, and our actions will need to adapt as the external environment (community transmission etc) changes.

    So are public health going to come to the school on that morning and teach the class? Total rubbish. That scenario isn't too hard to imagine happening seeing as we have to stay at home if we have a sniffle.


  • #7968
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,443 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    The class would remain at school under supervision if a suitable teacher cannot be found. If it is a student I'm not entirely sure what the situation is as in secondary schools students have different class mates every 40 minutes for different subjects. Sending home the entire year doesn't seem like it's in the plan if a second level student is determined as having Covid.

    On teacher supply one important factor is this:
    A load of teachers approaching retirement are going to retire early and get out.
    Why risk your health for this?
    If, for example, there is one teacher in each second level school who does this (and there are already two that I know of in my school) then this would eat up the 1000 teachers supposedly being supplied.
    In other words . . . there will be no teachers available for substituting.

    And who will be doing the supervising is the whole point I'm making?


  • #7969
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,650 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    And who will be doing the supervising is the whole point I'm making?

    Circular 45/2020

    Sequence for covering all teacher absences:
    1. Supply panel if the school is part of a supply panel cluster arrangement,
    2. School’s own panel of regular substitutes,
    3. National substitute service,
    4. If no substitute is available from above options then a school may
     For teachers in mainstream classes, schools use other non-mainstream teachers to
    cover the absence. A substitute may be employed on a subsequent date when one is
    available. On that day, the mainstream classroom teacher will undertake non
    mainstream teaching and the substitute will teach the mainstream class.
     For non-mainstream teachers a substitute may be employed on a subsequent date
    when one is available. Special Needs Class teachers cannot be used in this way.
    5. Administrative Principal if applicable
    6. Local arrangements that facilitate the pupils to be supervised in a manner that does not
    involve them being split between existing classes in classrooms

    I would be particularly interested in an explanation of point 6.


  • #7970
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    And who will be doing the supervising is the whole point I'm making?

    Anyone with Garda clearance.

    Roll up, roll up . . . all those whingers about teachers.
    Your time has come to shine.


  • #7971
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,443 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Circular 45/2020

    Sequence for covering all teacher absences:
    1. Supply panel if the school is part of a supply panel cluster arrangement,
    2. School’s own panel of regular substitutes,
    3. National substitute service,
    4. If no substitute is available from above options then a school may
     For teachers in mainstream classes, schools use other non-mainstream teachers to
    cover the absence. A substitute may be employed on a subsequent date when one is
    available. On that day, the mainstream classroom teacher will undertake non
    mainstream teaching and the substitute will teach the mainstream class.
     For non-mainstream teachers a substitute may be employed on a subsequent date
    when one is available. Special Needs Class teachers cannot be used in this way.
    5. Administrative Principal if applicable
    6. Local arrangements that facilitate the pupils to be supervised in a manner that does not
    involve them being split between existing classes in classrooms

    I would be particularly interested in an explanation of point 6.

    Let's say none of them are applicable and it's a teaching principal. What happens then?


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  • #7972
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,443 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Circular 45/2020

    Sequence for covering all teacher absences:
    1. Supply panel if the school is part of a supply panel cluster arrangement,
    2. School’s own panel of regular substitutes,
    3. National substitute service,
    4. If no substitute is available from above options then a school may
     For teachers in mainstream classes, schools use other non-mainstream teachers to
    cover the absence. A substitute may be employed on a subsequent date when one is
    available. On that day, the mainstream classroom teacher will undertake non
    mainstream teaching and the substitute will teach the mainstream class.
     For non-mainstream teachers a substitute may be employed on a subsequent date
    when one is available. Special Needs Class teachers cannot be used in this way.
    5. Administrative Principal if applicable
    6. Local arrangements that facilitate the pupils to be supervised in a manner that does not
    involve them being split between existing classes in classrooms

    I would be particularly interested in an explanation of point 6.

    Seriously who put together point number 4? Why would the class teacher not teach their class when they are back in? For god's sake this is utter madness.


  • #7973
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Circular 45/2020

    Sequence for covering all teacher absences:
    1. Supply panel if the school is part of a supply panel cluster arrangement,
    2. School’s own panel of regular substitutes,
    3. National substitute service,
    4. If no substitute is available from above options then a school may
     For teachers in mainstream classes, schools use other non-mainstream teachers to
    cover the absence. A substitute may be employed on a subsequent date when one is
    available. On that day, the mainstream classroom teacher will undertake non
    mainstream teaching and the substitute will teach the mainstream class.
     For non-mainstream teachers a substitute may be employed on a subsequent date
    when one is available. Special Needs Class teachers cannot be used in this way.
    5. Administrative Principal if applicable
    6. Local arrangements that facilitate the pupils to be supervised in a manner that does not
    involve them being split between existing classes in classrooms

    I would be particularly interested in an explanation of point 6.

    Looks like SET will be pulled and dragged left right and centre. How anyone involved in education can stand over that is beyond me. The most vulnerable children miss out again.

    ETA what I’m getting from the above is that it doesn’t matter who is supervising once they are kept in school and tough luck if you're SET as you won’t be seeing your kids with any sort of regularity.


  • #7974
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,650 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Let's say none of them are applicable and it's a teaching principal. What happens then?
    You have to don the green jersey, stop moaning and get on with it. Find a bespoke solution obviously.


  • #7975
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    So are public health going to come to the school on that morning and teach the class? Total rubbish. That scenario isn't too hard to imagine happening seeing as we have to stay at home if we have a sniffle.
    If there are multiple teachers in a school testing positive, or all off sick and requiring testing, it's unlikely kids will be going to that school while Covid is circulating. That'll be obvious to a public health doctor.

    We're in a public health emergency. You're not going to get everything handed to you on a plate, it will require some element of figuring things out as we go along.


  • #7976
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    Whos going to pay someone, if they need to take 2 weeks off work to mind their child (i.e bus driver/teacher etc)

    What happens if you have a multiple kids in diff schools, and in a 2 month period you are out for 2 weeks 3 times, one for each kid.

    Still get paid?

    With fast testing in should not be 2 weeks if a person does not have the virus.
    If you do have the virus then obviously self isolation is necessary.


  • #7977
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Seriously who put together point number 4? Why would the class teacher not teach their class when they are back in? For god's sake this is utter madness.

    And for all non-teachers, this comes from a Department circular. We are obliged to follow this 'guidance'. Total madness.


  • #7978
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Sorry, they should be doing it now, not when the children are expecting to go back.

    I agree, they've been off since March


  • #7979
    lulublue22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    hmmm wrote: »
    If there are multiple teachers in a school testing positive, or all off sick and requiring testing, it's unlikely kids will be going to that school while Covid is circulating. That'll be obvious to a public health doctor.

    We're in a public health emergency. You're not going to get everything handed to you on a plate, it will require some element of figuring things out as we go along.

    Schools are a hot bed of infection at the best of times. A number of staff could be out due to none covid reasons. Other illnesses haven’t magically disappeared because covid arrived.


  • #7980
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    I agree, they've been off since March

    Be great if the Department had it (and the mystery Covid training) available now then, wouldn't it?


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  • #7981
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    Should all this not have been sorted out, say maybe months ago and not 4 weeks before Schools are back?

    Absolutely, that's what I said.


This discussion has been closed.
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