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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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Comments

  • #7922
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭the corpo


    am_zarathustra wrote: »
    The one thing that would have won me over is taking teachers who can't be in school (for a variety of medical reasons), creating a central roll of them by subject specialism ( not for primary but def for secondary but I guess giving primary the option of year group. Given they might already have resources and experience would be no harm) then match them with students who can't attend school. This is not that complicated. Say I have a third year at home, immunocompromised, cystic fibrosis, whatever unfair hand they and their family have been dealt, I get their subjects. I go to my remote learning database of teachers and I give that child 2/3 hours of phoen, video or chat function help with their work. The teacher at home has their 21 hours a week of teaching, just remote and the student isn't just doing homework from a class they weren't in. I'd imagine that would appeal to the teachers involved too.

    Now the problem with this is the school can't do it, someone on far more money in the department would have to organise it. The department of health flew to China for PPE right in the middle of the worst of it but the DOE can't make a centralised list for the most vunerable students in out society that would actually utilise teachers that can't be in school

    Brilliant idea


  • #7923
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Well, if the teacher can't be in the school for medical reasons, presumably they won't be.
    Not addressed in the plan.


  • #7924
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭the corpo


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    We tried remote learning, it wasn't a success and there was nothing to suggest that there are easy fixes.

    Not hoping for remote learning, but what we had before the summer wasn't really it.

    We had a hastily cobbled together online response that was only meant to try and provide some form of help in the immediate confusion of lockdown. And, in my own experience, I think our kids school did as best as job as they could.

    What should have been happening since March is the Dept preparing a back up, fully prepped remote learning scheme, so that if everything does go to hell again and the schools have to be closed, we have a proper and fit for purpose scheme for home learning.


  • #7925
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Not addressed in the plan.

    Presumably they go to their doctor and get certified, why does it need to be in the plan?


  • #7926
    am_zarathustra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Well, if the teacher can't be in the school for medical reasons, presumably they won't be. So, it doesn't really affect the plan for going back. I am not sure how easy it would be to arrange something like you suggest. What we have seen before the summer is that plenty of teachers have no access to internet, laptops, have GDPR concerns about having a video call etc. We tried remote learning, it wasn't a success and there was nothing to suggest that there are easy fixes.

    Remote learning is not as good as face to face learning but it's a damn sight better than nothing. Also I had pretty good success with online teaching largely because I was interested before and had done a lot of training. It's possible to train people to be better. They would also be doing it with one student. Have a look at Jimpagrade which is a paid service doing a lesser version of this.

    Planning requires a database that's searchable. That's really it. Honestly if you talked to vsware you could get them to set up a cake "school", input the kids and the staff and curricular information and set the algorithm to work. You might have shortfalls in some subjects but it wouldn't be impossible to just have a little less time for that across the board. I'd see maybe Irish being a problem so maybe you have an hour and a half every week or something


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  • #7927
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Presumably they go to their doctor and get certified, why does it need to be in the plan?
    So what then, Herr Keuhn.

    Are they on sick leave? PUP? Do they work remotely?

    What if there are so many of them that the whole school system can't function?

    What about ones with at-risk children or elderly parents that they care for?

    It's almost as though people who are applauding the plan have absolutely no idea of the questions it has stirred up. Almost as though it has little to no impact on their lives whatsoever.


  • #7928
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    the corpo wrote: »
    Not hoping for remote learning, but what we had before the summer wasn't really it.

    We had a hastily cobbled together online response that was only meant to try and provide some form of help in the immediate confusion of lockdown. And, in my own experience, I think our kids school did as best as job as they could.

    What should have been happening since March is the Dept preparing a back up, fully prepped remote learning scheme, so that if everything does go to hell again and the schools have to be closed, we have a proper and fit for purpose scheme for home learning.

    The department putting together a plan wouldn't have addressed the issue of lack of internet in some areas. You really can't work remotely with poor internet. Uploading some worksheets to Aladdin on a slow connection and being available for parents to call, it isnt really remote teaching.


  • #7929
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭the corpo


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    The department putting together a plan wouldn't have addressed the issue of lack of internet in some areas. You really can't work remotely with poor internet. Uploading some worksheets to Aladdin on a slow connection and being available for parents to call, it isnt really remote teaching.

    Very true, but if schools do end up being closed, a properly prepared remote learning plan is surely better than none at all?

    Edit: particularly if we go down the localised closing route. Most schools are in the cities, where outbreaks are more likely to occur and connectivity is less of an issue. So would have been good to see back ups to prevent as much disruption to education as possible.


  • #7930
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    A second wave is being taking extremely seriously by all countries.
    I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about.

    The reason any of the lockdown happened was to get us to a place where we can manage things (not eliminate the virus).

    We met the WHO criteria to reopen schools well back in May apparently.

    From Dr Gabriel Scally

    "The first thing the WHO stipulated is we needed to know a lot more about the diseases than when schools were closed and that’s the case,’ he said. ‘The second thing is, could the health system cope with a resurgence of cases? The third thing necessary is that if there is an outbreak of the virus, that the authorities are in a position to take urgent action to close the schools and find the source through track and trace.

    I’m satisfied that all those things are in place in Ireland".

    We have ticked all those boxes and are in a much better position than when the schools closed. Localised closures might happen but nothing like we saw in a full closure across the board.


  • #7931
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    the corpo wrote: »
    Not hoping for remote learning, but what we had before the summer wasn't really it.

    We had a hastily cobbled together online response that was only meant to try and provide some form of help in the immediate confusion of lockdown. And, in my own experience, I think our kids school did as best as job as they could.

    What should have been happening since March is the Dept preparing a back up, fully prepped remote learning scheme, so that if everything does go to hell again and the schools have to be closed, we have a proper and fit for purpose scheme for home learning.

    Requires massive investment.

    The far cheaper option is to provide hand sanitizer & bleach with insulting juvenile instructions to teachers (Don't take them home)


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  • #7932
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    the corpo wrote: »
    Very true, but if schools do end up being closed, a properly prepared remote learning plan is surely better than none at all?

    I think it would be better to try and make the time up later if possible.


  • #7933
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    The reason any of the lockdown happened was to get us to a place where we can manage things (not eliminate the virus).

    We met the WHO criteria to reopen schools well back in May apparently.

    From Dr Gabriel Scally

    "The first thing the WHO stipulated is we needed to know a lot more about the diseases than when schools were closed and that’s the case,’ he said. ‘The second thing is, could the health system cope with a resurgence of cases? The third thing necessary is that if there is an outbreak of the virus, that the authorities are in a position to take urgent action to close the schools and find the source through track and trace.

    I’m satisfied that all those things are in place in Ireland".

    We have ticked all those boxes and are in a much better position than when the schools closed. Localised closures might happen but nothing like we saw in a full closure across the board.

    When temperatures fall and days get shorter then viruses are in environments where they further thrive. There's a reason why the word 'winter' is placed into the term 'winter flu season'.

    We must return schools in as safe a manner as possible and any second possibility of a second wave must be securely guarded against. History cannot be allowed to repeat itself where the second wave of the Spanish flu, and not the first, 100 years ago caused all the damage with up to 100m estimated to have died worldwide.

    The fact that teachers are asked to operate in an environment different to the rest of the country because he have not invested properly in schools for decades is now their problem. . . .

    I understand the drive to achieve normality in schools but this is not the case across industry where work-from-home is being offered to 2021 where it is practical.


  • #7934
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    I understand the drive to achieve normality in schools but this is not the case across industry where work-from-home is being offered to 2021 where it is practical.

    It's been proven now that it's not practical for education to take place as a work from home option.

    No plan was ever going to be airtight, not all risks can be avoided.


  • #7935
    combat14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭combat14


    what we need in sept is intensive remote (blended) learning for all teachers even if this delays start of school by a week of two

    the reality is that if there is a second wave at any stage teachers need to be adequately trained to teach online perhaps for the rest of the academic year if needs be


  • #7936
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    I understand the drive to achieve normality in schools but this is not the case across industry where work-from-home is being offered to 2021 where it is practical.

    It isn't practical for teachers to work from home, same as bus drivers, plumbers etc. Added to that, education is one of the most important services provided by the state, along with health.


  • #7937
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    am_zarathustra wrote: »
    The one thing that would have won me over is taking teachers who can't be in school (for a variety of medical reasons), creating a central roll of them by subject specialism ( not for primary but def for secondary but I guess giving primary the option of year group. Given they might already have resources and experience would be no harm) then match them with students who can't attend school. This is not that complicated. Say I have a third year at home, immunocompromised, cystic fibrosis, whatever unfair hand they and their family have been dealt, I get their subjects. I go to my remote learning database of teachers and I give that child 2/3 hours of phoen, video or chat function help with their work. The teacher at home has their 21 hours a week of teaching, just remote and the student isn't just doing homework from a class they weren't in. I'd imagine that would appeal to the teachers involved too.

    Now the problem with this is the school can't do it, someone on far more money in the department would have to organise it. The department of health flew to China for PPE right in the middle of the worst of it but the DOE can't make a centralised list for the most vunerable students in out society that would actually utilise teachers that can't be in school

    Instead schools are being told to redistribute their existing teachers to deal with stay at home children. I've said since the very start that their needed to be a central repository of stuff for them with non school teachers assigned to look after them. Reading the document they seem to indicate that SET should be doing this. The question being what happens to those children in school who will now miss this allocated time because the SET has been allocated elsewhere?


  • #7938
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    2 Questions (using examples):-

    If I develop a cough or a temp etc, do I have to keep my children at home until I can confirm that it is not Covid-19 ?

    If another child in my son's class tests positive and my son is part of the group told to self-isolate, do I need to also keep my daughter at home (different schools)?

    Thanks


  • #7939
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    2 Questions (using examples):-

    If I develop a cough or a temp etc, do I have to keep my children at home until I can confirm that it is not Covid-19 ?

    If another child in my son's class tests positive and my son is part of the group told to self-isolate, do I need to also keep my daughter at home (different schools)?

    Thanks

    You think they thought about that. The plan is schools heres a load of money, dont blame us when it all goes tits up


  • #7940
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    combat14 wrote: »
    what we need in sept is intensive remote (blended) learning for all teachers even if this delays start of school by a week of two

    the reality is that if there is a second wave at any stage teachers need to be adequately trained to teach online perhaps for the rest of the academic year if needs be

    Not a bad idea but if that was even a consideration, it should have happened a couple of months ago.

    It didn't, however in the event of localised temporary closures I'm sure they'll be able to muddle through that like we have had to do already.

    Perhaps a new role could be created for high risk teachers in schools who can't return, they could take responsibility for coordinating online curriculum delivery or something like that?


  • #7941
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Instead schools are being told to redistribute their existing teachers to deal with stay at home children. I've said since the very start that their needed to be a central repository of stuff for them with non school teachers assigned to look after them. Reading the document they seem to indicate that SET should be doing this. The question being what happens to those children in school who will now miss this allocated time because the SET has been allocated elsewhere?

    The whole area of SET is a scandal. Our most vulnerable children will be the first to lose out. SET will be plugging holes across schools. The document allows for the employment of nine new teachers across Dublin for supply panels at primary level. Schools will be forced to deploy SET into classrooms to maintain pods and bubbles leaving the most vulnerable without the support they need and deserve.


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  • #7942
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    2 Questions (using examples):-

    If I develop a cough or a temp etc, do I have to keep my children at home until I can confirm that it is not Covid-19 ?

    If another child in my son's class tests positive and my son is part of the group told to self-isolate, do I need to also keep my daughter at home (different schools)?

    Thanks

    No send them in to school with potential covid and then complain the school didnt do enough


  • #7943
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Not a bad idea but if that was even a consideration, it should have happened a couple of months ago.

    It didn't, however in the event of localised temporary closures I'm sure they'll be able to muddle through that like we have had to do already.

    Perhaps a new role could be created for high risk teachers in schools who can't return, they could take responsibility for coordinating online curriculum delivery or something like that?

    Should all this not have been sorted out, say maybe months ago and not 4 weeks before Schools are back?


  • #7944
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    No send them in to school with potential covid and then complain the school didnt do enough

    Whos going to pay someone, if they need to take 2 weeks off work to mind their child (i.e bus driver/teacher etc)

    What happens if you have a multiple kids in diff schools, and in a 2 month period you are out for 2 weeks 3 times, one for each kid.

    Still get paid?


  • #7945
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    Whos going to pay someone, if they need to take 2 weeks off work to mind their child (i.e bus driver/teacher etc)

    What happens if you have a multiple kids in diff schools, and in a 2 month period you are out for 2 weeks 3 times, one for each kid.

    Still get paid?

    That's the Joys of being a parent


  • #7946
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    It's not really me that I am talking about the rather some other Parents who tend to dose their Kids with Calpol and send them in and then not answer their phone when the school calls.


  • #7947
    Fleetwoodmac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 263 ✭✭Fleetwoodmac


    combat14 wrote: »
    what we need in sept is intensive remote (blended) learning for all teachers even if this delays start of school by a week of two

    the reality is that if there is a second wave at any stage teachers need to be adequately trained to teach online perhaps for the rest of the academic year if needs be

    All the training in the world will be irrelevant for those of us with poor Wi-Fi. It's so erratic and unreliable in rural areas, we can't pick and choose providers and having several kids in thr house, trying to access online learning during march/April as well as us adults working from home was a nightmare.


  • #7948
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    Whos going to pay someone, if they need to take 2 weeks off work to mind their child (i.e bus driver/teacher etc)

    What happens if you have a multiple kids in diff schools, and in a 2 month period you are out for 2 weeks 3 times, one for each kid.

    Still get paid?

    Fair point.


  • #7949
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    How fast is testing these days ?

    So, I have a cough and a temp. I keep the Kids home and try to get tested asap. If a get a (negative) result fairly fast, then it wouldn't be the full 14 days.


  • #7950
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    SusanC10 wrote: »
    Fair point.

    It's not really a fair point. Who'll pay me to mind my kids if they get sick?

    Teachers aren't the first to go back to work


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  • #7951
    SusanC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    It's not really a fair point. Who'll pay me to mind my kids if they get sick?

    I think it's something that needs to be considered by the Govt.


This discussion has been closed.
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