Second hand tractors are gone expensive

straight · 21-07-2020 9:36pm #1

I've been looking around for a 120 hp tractor and loader. Something like a mxm/TM 120 or a massey 6465 or something. Valtra n121 and john Deere are crazy money. About 25 k is my budget for something under 7000 hours. Any recommendations for anything in particular? Claas maybe? Prices seem to have risen alot in the last 6 months. Maybe they have peaked? I'm in no mad rush in buying.

Grueller · 21-07-2020 9:41pm

straight wrote: »

I've been looking around for a 120 hp tractor and loader. Something like a mxm/TM 120 or a massey 6465 or something. Valtra n121 and john Deere are crazy money. About 25 k is my budget for something under 7000 hours. Any recommendations for anything in particular? Claas maybe? Prices seem to have risen alot in the last 6 months. Maybe they have peaked? I'm in no mad rush in buying.

I am on the hunt for a tractor this year or so. I have given it up now as €35k is entry level for a ten year old machine with north of 6000 hours.
I have made my mind up to sit tight and buy new in a year or two. I only do 500 hours per year so a new machine will last me twenty plus years.

straight · 21-07-2020 9:56pm

Grueller wrote: »

I am on the hunt for a tractor this year or so. I have given it up now as €35k is entry level for a ten year old machine with north of 6000 hours.
I have made my mind up to sit tight and buy new in a year or two. I only do 500 hours per year so a new machine will last me twenty plus years.

A new 120 hp massey is approx 95k so I don't think so. A 1999 6410 with 9k hours is 25k and no loader. My neighbour bought on with a loader 10 years ago for 25k and 2k hours less

White Clover · 21-07-2020 10:05pm

straight wrote: »

I've been looking around for a 120 hp tractor and loader. Something like a mxm/TM 120 or a massey 6465 or something. Valtra n121 and john Deere are crazy money. About 25 k is my budget for something under 7000 hours. Any recommendations for anything in particular? Claas maybe? Prices seem to have risen alot in the last 6 months. Maybe they have peaked? I'm in no mad rush in buying.

In the current issue (August) of Classic Tractor, S.Cheers engineering in the UK have a 2006 Massey 6465, 2500 hours, dyna 6, tyres look good STG£21995 + 20% VAT.
Good value I think considering the hours.

Grueller · 21-07-2020 10:08pm

straight wrote: »

A new 120 hp massey is approx 95k so I don't think so. A 1999 6410 with 9k hours is 25k and no loader. My neighbour bought on with a loader 10 years ago for 25k and 2k hours less

Brand new case maxxum 115 with a case lrz 120 loader on board is €83k including vat and is imo a mile ahead of the massey.
I have a trade in and the payments are €9800 per year for 7 years. I am on the high tax bracket so effectively the repayment costs me sub €5k after the tax write off. It is tempting to me.

Grueller · 21-07-2020 10:10pm

White Clover wrote: »

In the current issue (August) of Classic Tractor, S.Cheers engineering in the UK have a 2006 Massey 6465, 2500 hours, dyna 6, tyres look good STG£21995 + 20% VAT.
Good value I think considering the hours.

I would struggle to believe those hours to be honest and I don't know enough to trust myself on inspecting something like it.
She is also about €29k with sterling converted to euros and VAT included. Add a good second hand loader at €6I and its into €35k again.

21-07-2020 10:11pm

White Clover wrote: »

In the current issue (August) of Classic Tractor, S.Cheers engineering in the UK have a 2006 Massey 6465, 2500 hours, dyna 6, tyres look good STG£21995 + 20% VAT.
Good value I think considering the hours.

Keep 5K aside to replace concave washers in the dyna 6

Nice tractor here,loader brackets.....dunno what cost of loader would be

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/case-mxu-115-turbo/25243278?campaign=3

White Clover · 21-07-2020 10:11pm

Grueller wrote: »

I would struggle to believe those hours to be honest and I don't know enough to trust myself on inspecting something like it.

No doubt it'd need a good checking over. In my experience, genuine uk companies are very genuine.

straight · 21-07-2020 10:12pm

White Clover wrote: »

In the current issue (August) of Classic Tractor, S.Cheers engineering in the UK have a 2006 Massey 6465, 2500 hours, dyna 6, tyres look good STG£21995 + 20% VAT.
Good value I think considering the hours.

Seems to be good value in the uk at the moment alright.

White Clover · 21-07-2020 10:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Keep 5K aside to replace concave washers in the dyna 6

Nice tractor here,loader brackets.....dunno what cost of loader would be

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/case-mxu-115-turbo/25243278?campaign=3

5k sounds very high. What's involved that'd bring the bill to that? Just curious is all.
If a lad was anyway mechanically minded he'd split and do alot of joining the tractor back together again.

Teddy 1234 · 21-07-2020 10:18pm

Grueller wrote: »

Brand new case maxxum 115 with a case lrz 120 loader on board is €83k including vat and is imo a mile ahead of the massey.
I have a trade in and the payments are €9800 per year for 7 years. I am on the high tax bracket so effectively the repayment costs me sub €5k after the tax write off. It is tempting to me.

I taught i priced that tractor and it was costing €95000 all in

Grueller · 21-07-2020 10:23pm

Teddy 1234 wrote: »

I taught i priced that tractor and it was costing €95000 all in

Try Cooney Furlong in Enniscorthy.
16 x 16 transmission
Cab suspension, no front axle suspension
3 speed pto
Low profile cab
Air seat
Push back hitch
Soft drive, multi dock and 3rd service on the loader
€83k

21-07-2020 10:24pm

White Clover wrote: »

5k sounds very high. What's involved that'd bring the bill to that? Just curious is all.
If a lad was anyway mechanically minded he'd split and do alot of joining the tractor back together again.

Its a series of washers at back of gearbox (8 iirc) that reset the transmission/packs when you select neutral,(split under cab)......

Some dyna boxes been known to eat selectors/syncros too,....if you can split/do it yourself,likely save thousands on labour tbf

straight · 21-07-2020 10:30pm

Grueller wrote: »

Try Cooney Furlong in Enniscorthy.
16 x 16 transmission
Cab suspension, no front axle suspension
3 speed pto
Low profile cab
Air seat
Push back hitch
Soft drive, multi dock and 3rd service on the loader
€83k

It's tempting in fairness when you see the price of 20 year old tractors

Mooooo · 21-07-2020 10:42pm

Do they do finance to match the write off period?

Bass Reeves · 21-07-2020 10:46pm

straight wrote: »

I've been looking around for a 120 hp tractor and loader. Something like a mxm/TM 120 or a massey 6465 or something. Valtra n121 and john Deere are crazy money. About 25 k is my budget for something under 7000 hours. Any recommendations for anything in particular? Claas maybe? Prices seem to have risen alot in the last 6 months. Maybe they have peaked? I'm in no mad rush in buying.

By the mid noughties most contractors were gone to 150hl tractors and to six cylinder as well. Anything that is a tidy tractor that is capable of yard and shed work is like gold dust. Dairy men had either started to contract out heavier work and gone or else were gone g
For bigger tractors..

If you think it hard to source 120HP tractors try to source 80-100 HP tractors from 00 on. As well as lads either started to do more if not contracting hours climbed

Waffletraktor · 21-07-2020 10:48pm

Grueller wrote: »

Try Cooney Furlong in Enniscorthy.
16 x 16 transmission
Cab suspension, no front axle suspension
3 speed pto
Low profile cab
Air seat
Push back hitch
Soft drive, multi dock and 3rd service on the loader
€83k

What do they quote for longterm hire ie 12months or 1-1.2k hours as thats the way its going over here. Put alot of hours on a tractor for a steady base load and hire in for peak workloads.
Guesing the annual cost same as repayments but the tractor would always be 1-2 years old, no servicing/repair cost.

Downtown123 · 21-07-2020 10:57pm

Not meaning to be harsh but you wont get a 120hp tractor with a loader newer than 2002 realistically for 25k- you might get the 7000hrs but even then they'll be mad money, If you want a tm/mxm with those kinda hours and a loader you're talking 35k unfortunately. You might get a tm120 classic with a loader for 30k.
McMurray tractors up north do have nice stuff.
This may be a good website- just remember to add VAT at 20% for the UK prices -https://www.farmmachinerylocator.co.uk/listings/farm-machinery/for-sale/list/category/1109/tractors-100-hp-to-174-hp

Grueller · 21-07-2020 10:59pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Do they do finance to match the write off period?

7 years max. Write off period is 8.

Timmaay · 22-07-2020 12:37am

straight wrote: »

A new 120 hp massey is approx 95k so I don't think so. A 1999 6410 with 9k hours is 25k and no loader. My neighbour bought on with a loader 10 years ago for 25k and 2k hours less

A massey 110hp 5711 global with a quickie loader and full dyna4 was under 70k when I got one a year ago. Possibly closer to 65k with the way the trade in went (price for my tractor seemed bit generous)

straight · 22-07-2020 6:25am

Downtown123 wrote: »

Not meaning to be harsh but you wont get a 120hp tractor with a loader newer than 2002 realistically for 25k- you might get the 7000hrs but even then they'll be mad money, If you want a tm/mxm with those kinda hours and a loader you're talking 35k unfortunately. You might get a tm120 classic with a loader for 30k.
McMurray tractors up north do have nice stuff.
This may be a good website- just remember to add VAT at 20% for the UK prices -https://www.farmmachinerylocator.co.uk/listings/farm-machinery/for-sale/list/category/1109/tractors-100-hp-to-174-hp

The likes of this Mxu would do me fine I think. I think the market is peaking. Might wait another 6 months or so.

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/case-mxu-115-turbo/25243278

C0N0R · 22-07-2020 6:50am

Quick question, have a tractor that’s fully depreciated, it I trade that tractor in is there a tax issue or how does it work?

893bet · 22-07-2020 6:54am

Grueller wrote: »

7 years max. Write off period is 8.

Is that just on new or could you do that for a 30 k second hand one?

Grueller · 22-07-2020 8:10am

893bet wrote: »

Is that just on new or could you do that for a 30 k second hand one?

2and hand is the same.

jntsnk · 22-07-2020 8:11am

Grueller wrote: »

Brand new case maxxum 115 with a case lrz 120 loader on board is €83k including vat and is imo a mile ahead of the massey.
I have a trade in and the payments are €9800 per year for 7 years. I am on the high tax bracket so effectively the repayment costs me sub €5k after the tax write off. It is tempting to me.

Do you you max out your pension contributions every year , surly it’s a better idea than buying a new piece of metal.

Grueller · 22-07-2020 8:14am

Waffletraktor wrote: »

What do they quote for longterm hire ie 12months or 1-1.2k hours as thats the way its going over here. Put alot of hours on a tractor for a steady base load and hire in for peak workloads.
Guesing the annual cost same as repayments but the tractor would always be 1-2 years old, no servicing/repair cost.

I don't know waffletraktor, but like I said, I do about 500 hours per year so to keep the tractor I would own her after 7 years and still have a fresh 3500 hour machine worth €40k minimum. At those hours she is still only about half way to a set of brakes and tyres so repairs should not be a big thing.

20silkcut · 22-07-2020 9:39am

Just after looking at Tom pemberton latest video. Never saw a man so drained. He was after mowing 60 acres . He was driving the 2007 hurliman tractor which in fairness is not a bad machine. But of course he gave the entire spring and early summer driving a brand new case 145.
If you get used to comfort it’s obviously hard to go back.
Note to self : don’t ever take out a fancy tractor on demo if your not buying it.

K.G. · 22-07-2020 10:10am

C0N0R wrote: »

Quick question, have a tractor that’s fully depreciated, it I trade that tractor in is there a tax issue or how does it work?

Mu understanding is if you sell for more than the book value its classed as profit and so liable for tax.with trading its more of a greyer area as what was trade in valued at

jaymla627 · 22-07-2020 10:13am

20silkcut wrote: »

Just after looking at Tom pemberton latest video. Never saw a man so drained. He was after mowing 60 acres . He was driving the 2007 hurliman tractor which in fairness is not a bad machine. But of course he gave the entire spring and early summer driving a brand new case 145.
If you get used to comfort it’s obviously hard to go back.
Note to self : don’t ever take out a fancy tractor on demo if your not buying it.

Its like lads waxing lyricial about 110-90s and such used to run them and now have a case puma 160, you could do a 15 hour day in the case and you would be fresh as a daisy at the end, a few hours in a 110-90 and it would be like a lad took a sledge to you after driving it

TooOldBoots · 22-07-2020 10:21am

straight wrote: »

The likes of this Mxu would do me fine I think. I think the market is peaking. Might wait another 6 months or so.

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/case-mxu-115-turbo/25243278

That tractor looks like it has a share of hours on it, seats are all torn which is a right sigh of high use. Tyres are bald too so factor in another 3k for a new set of shoes. Price is plus VAT and if so then theirs a fresh looking English McCormick MC115 at Pat healys in Cork for similar money https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/mccormick-mc115/20542386
Far better tractor than the case as the McCormick has the Perkins 1104C-44T Engine which is Bomb proof

minerleague · 22-07-2020 10:28am

In the market, like a lot it seems, for a fresh 2nd hand aswell. No wonder dealer sales can quote high figures if we're all chasing the same thing. my hips and back are shagged from driving 40 & 60 (will any tractor sold new today be going in 2080 :rolleyes: ) tractors. Think i'll break out the communion money any buy new
and be done with it. Only thing is need to replace all bits of machinery with bigger shiny kit to go with it.
whats with dealers offering only 3-6 months warranty with these "mint 2nd tractors"?

Downtown123 · 22-07-2020 10:40am

This may suit your brief. These are bullet proof tractors and not massive money. About 100-110 hp.
That mxu looks very tired and could be a money pit. If you’re a handy mechanic it might be worth a look though. Don’t know what hours but cleaned up with a loader and a new set of tyres it’s easily worth 30k in a dealers yard.
https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/valtra-6550/25274177

Mooooo · 22-07-2020 10:44am

K.G. wrote: »

Mu understanding is if you sell for more than the book value its classed as profit and so liable for tax.with trading its more of a greyer area as what was trade in valued at

Is it a case of the write down value, as in the cost to you of deal done, of the new machine will be reduced by whatver value the old machine was traded at so it would be one to watch and talk to the accountant about. It think they are the two options, either put it in as a profit or reduce the capital allowances

lakill Farm · 22-07-2020 11:08am

C0N0R wrote: »

Quick question, have a tractor that’s fully depreciated, it I trade that tractor in is there a tax issue or how does it work?

its based on capital allowances claimed not depreciation

Balancing charge if more capital allowances claimed that sold for. So after 8 years of claiming capital allowance the full selling valve. so your charged tax on it

Balancing allowance if the trade in valve is less that the Capital allowance.
you get a tax credit

Sometimes its cheaper long run to keep a 2nd hand tractor than selling it/trading in

Bass Reeves · 22-07-2020 11:18am

Grueller wrote: »

Brand new case maxxum 115 with a case lrz 120 loader on board is €83k including vat and is imo a mile ahead of the massey.
I have a trade in and the payments are €9800 per year for 7 years. I am on the high tax bracket so effectively the repayment costs me sub €5k after the tax write off. It is tempting to me.

It grand if you really have the money and have nothing else to spend it on. I have fierce patience buying cars tractors and machinery. A lad commented on it to me lately. Last tractor took me over 6 months to buy, RAV took me three months. Sometimes hit lucky came across the other half IX35 by accident and just bought it as it was too good value. Bought a car with the daughter for her two weeks ago went into Limerick's and 4th place we called to we bought.

You can make the same case for good second hand. A lad that pays 30k for a tractor, sells his own for 10k. Gives 10K if own money pays the rest off over two years at 100ish/week. She is still deprecated by over 4k/year. Even if he spends a it on maintenance its allowable in the year it happens.

Last tractor I bought cost 17.5k a MC Cormick CX 90 with a rossmore FL60 loader. I have it nearly two years, do about 300 hours a year. It worth at least 15k to sell myself now. After tax it will cost me 9k

farisfat · 22-07-2020 11:19am

Grueller wrote: »

Brand new case maxxum 115 with a case lrz 120 loader on board is €83k including vat and is imo a mile ahead of the massey.
I have a trade in and the payments are €9800 per year for 7 years. I am on the high tax bracket so effectively the repayment costs me sub €5k after the tax write off. It is tempting to me.

5K will get alot of work done and no diesel burned.
That's the route I've gone and I leave my old tractor in the shed.

lakill Farm · 22-07-2020 11:30am

I have a 2006 McCormick 105 I have it close to 6 years and there is 4200 hours on it.

Had looked at selling it and buying a 130Hp 6 cylinder and a smaller 80hp tractor also .

But the plan is now to buy a 150-170hp plus tractor and forget about the 110-130hp range and keep my CX105

Everyone is after that horse power range and simple economics of supply and demand is pushing prices crazy

twin_beacon · 22-07-2020 11:55am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you think it hard to source 120HP tractors try to source 80-100 HP tractors from 00 on. As well as lads either started to do more if not contracting hours climbed

very true. Our 20 year old massey, which we bought when it was 4 years old has only lost €4-5k max over the time we've owned it. There are very few new tractors being sold under 100hp now.

straight · 22-07-2020 1:08pm

TooOldBoots wrote: »

That tractor looks like it has a share of hours on it, seats are all torn which is a right sigh of high use. Tyres are bald too so factor in another 3k for a new set of shoes. Price is plus VAT and if so then theirs a fresh looking English McCormick MC115 at Pat healys in Cork for similar money https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/mccormick-mc115/20542386
Far better tractor than the case as the McCormick has the Perkins 1104C-44T Engine which is Bomb proof

You have got me thinking about McCormick. A dependable tractor with not much electrics is what I'm after. They seem to be better value too. I mist give a closer look at them.

degetme · 22-07-2020 1:37pm

So lads are the 150 to 170hp tractors better value now than the 100 to 120hp?

TooOldBoots · 22-07-2020 1:39pm

straight wrote: »

You have got me thinking about McCormick. A dependable tractor with not much electrics is what I'm after. They seem to be better value too. I mist give a closer look at them.

The McCormick MC series are the most under rated tractor.
Avoid the cheaper CX versions, they are totally different in the Engine, Gearbox,Back-end and cab.
The MCs have the heavy backend and gearbox. Sell for less than the Case Mxu but a far better tractor

Timmaay · 22-07-2020 2:23pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

Its like lads waxing lyricial about 110-90s and such used to run them and now have a case puma 160, you could do a 15 hour day in the case and you would be fresh as a daisy at the end, a few hours in a 110-90 and it would be like a lad took a sledge to you after driving it

It fully depends on what your doing with it, as a loader tractor for a dairy farmer who spents 80% of the tractors hours around the yard loading and up and down on it with dirty clothes, and rarely longer than half an hr a time on it then comfort is much less of an issues than 15hrs a day on one at tillage work, it's why stockman tractors with less electronics/comfort which can often cost 15/20k less than a normal spec tractor new are still very common in Ireland.

jaymla627 · 22-07-2020 2:30pm

degetme wrote: »

So lads are the 150 to 170hp tractors better value now than the 100 to 120hp?

I traded in a 16 plate t6140 with loader and 4650 hours on the clock, for a 15 plate case puma 160 with 2400 hours 50k sidewinder air brakes/exhaust /front suspension and new front links and pto, the cost to change was 13k.....
Pricing the two above tractors new today, the case would be costing 30k more then the new holland to buy, alot more chance of higher repair bills with bigger tractors if you buy one thats been used like a rally car by young lads at silage, you need to know where the tractor has come out of really, where as the t6140 are pretty much bombproof in comparison

22-07-2020 3:34pm

Timmaay wrote: »

It fully depends on what your doing with it, as a loader tractor for a dairy farmer who spents 80% of the tractors hours around the yard loading and up and down on it with dirty clothes, and rarely longer than half an hr a time on it then comfort is much less of an issues than 15hrs a day on one at tillage work, it's why stockman tractors with less electronics/comfort which can often cost 15/20k less than a normal spec tractor new are still very common in Ireland.

I would disagree on that myself I have to say, there is a lot to be said for comfort and higher spec for yard and loader work too. To go back having to change gears, constant clutching etc, no air seat no air con on a hot day would not appeal to me at all. Even things like front suspension when doing field work, you probably wont notice the difference it makes until you have it but not getting bounced around when brining in bales etc really makes a difference.

Dunedin · 22-07-2020 4:03pm

degetme wrote: »

So lads are the 150 to 170hp tractors better value now than the 100 to 120hp?

The transport box would look fierce small on the back of a 170hp yoke.....

bogman_bass · 22-07-2020 4:11pm

I’ve been eying up a steyr 9094 which is a Case CS94 in its original red and white clothes.

Much heavier backend on it than the CX90 I have at the moment
It’s in off farm condition but looks to be in good nick.
Downsides: bald tires, no loader, no left hand shuttle.
€17k asking price.

Mooooo · 22-07-2020 6:46pm

I guess it goes back to comparing buying an older machine which may require higher maintenance costs vs buying a new machine in which you'll know the history and have regular servicing costs for the first number of years and / or a warranty for a bit as well.
Either way the cost of machinery is getting serious. 34 yr old jcb 412 here will require more work this year and I'll have to find tyres for it as well and looking around anything to replace it in Ireland anyway in the 25k price bracket is near 20 yrs old as well so not exactly guaranteed to be issue free. The new version is probably around the 100k plus mark? If bought new and kept over the 20 years wouldnt look too bad but it needs paying over the 5 to 7 year period?

twin_beacon · 22-07-2020 9:02pm

degetme wrote: »

So lads are the 150 to 170hp tractors better value now than the 100 to 120hp?

It depends on what you mean by value. Tractors in that horse power bracket will more than likely be contractor machines, unless it came off an arable farm. Most contractor machines are not owner driven, and are usually traded before they need any major overhauls or tyres. You could get lucky, but you are more than likely to end up spending a lot more on maintenance than a smaller stock/dairy man tractor.
That being said, some tractors in that range are going up in price. Its possible that a 6010 or 7010 deere bought second hand 10 years ago, could be sold on at a profit now, even with the higher hours. John Deere 7810 go for crazy money.

kevthegaff · 22-07-2020 10:19pm

Bought a 03 tm for 25k.last year, lovely tractor to.drive but prob a little big for most farmers

funkey_monkey · 22-07-2020 11:25pm

We were looking to trade in for a replacement yard tractor which would help bringing in bales etc.

Mccormick dealer told us same as previous poster that the cx is a light tractor and the mc is a much better machine.

Sheds and passageway size here still makes a need for the smaller tractor. It's say there are plenty of farms in same situation. There might be better value in the bigger machines, but they are no use if they can't get into the sheds or turn easily in yard.

Donald Trump · 23-07-2020 12:08am

OP, would you be looking at something like this maybe?

Difficult to tell from the photos mind

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/massey-4360-c-w-895-loader/25126955

Second hand tractors are gone expensive

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