How will schools be able to go back in September?

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 17-07-2020 02:35PM

I don't know what's up with the new government stoking the panic and bringing in new restrictions with the threat of rolling back on phases now.

Our testing has increased four fold in some cases over the past couple of weeks, so yes numbers are up.

Travel will be the one thing that will ruin it for us, I'm hoping that the majority of people will have sense when it comes to non essential trips abroad.

It's like a month ago the focus was on getting everyone back to work and schools planning for opening and now it's panic stirring again.

It's very worrying, I have felt so hopeful up to now but it's just depressing at this stage.

JDD · 17-07-2020 02:48PM

Surely this repeating the year thing has something to it.

Is it so awful that you would have two or three 14 year olds per year in 6th class? The vast majority of them would be 13, with a fair minority being 12 and turning 13 at some point during the year. Would you really want your child to move on to 1st year - which is challenging enough from a social perspective in normal times - during a period where they will probably be in school for three weeks and at home for a period and then back in school again? Surely it would be less damaging for them to be in 6th class, in a familiar environment, with their current friends, covering familiar topics, just for this year?

If I was a fifth year going into sixth year, I would also much prefer to repeat fifth year again. No way would I want to be heading into my leaving cert year worrying about how I was going to combine school and at home learning, separate from my peer support group, with the uncertainty of whether the leaving cert will actually go ahead. So what if you are a year older going to college?

I admit, my kids wouldn't be too impressed with not moving on to senior infants and third class, but it would reduce all manner of stress in our house when the time comes to homeschool (as it will inevitably come) if they are covering topics as revision, rather than learning them for the first time.

Multipass · 17-07-2020 02:58PM

JDD wrote: »

Surely this repeating the year thing has something to it.

Is it so awful that you would have two or three 14 year olds per year in 6th class? The vast majority of them would be 13, with a fair minority being 12 and turning 13 at some point during the year. Would you really want your child to move on to 1st year - which is challenging enough from a social perspective in normal times - during a period where they will probably be in school for three weeks and at home for a period and then back in school again? Surely it would be less damaging for them to be in 6th class, in a familiar environment, with their current friends, covering familiar topics, just for this year?

If I was a fifth year going into sixth year, I would also much prefer to repeat fifth year again. No way would I want to be heading into my leaving cert year worrying about how I was going to combine school and at home learning, separate from my peer support group, with the uncertainty of whether the leaving cert will actually go ahead. So what if you are a year older going to college?

I admit, my kids wouldn't be too impressed with not moving on to senior infants and third class, but it would reduce all manner of stress in our house when the time comes to homeschool (as it will inevitably come) if they are covering topics as revision, rather than learning them for the first time.

God no, 6th class was a dreadful year for my son. Bored to tears. I mean really really bored to the point of depression. Too easy, too slow, too childish. It did him a lot of damage.

Blazer · 17-07-2020 02:58PM

that's my point really. Sure kids would be unhappy but they can bloody suck it up.
Its better than letting a few hundred children across the country suffer poor grades /lack of education over the next few years. Because the way its currently being planned or a lack of planning its going to be an utter farce.
At least this way you get kids back to school and you could do maybe staggered days etc and combine with home tuition and if they only managed 2-3 days a week its all just repeat home and in fairness there's no harm in going back over what've they've learned.

NelRom · 17-07-2020 03:04PM

I have a child going into 1st year and as he hasn't been taught for months now, yes I want his education to resume either in the school or fully online. I don't want to pause and repeat the same year again for him- how depressing.

It's incredible that we are still not actively aiming for plan B where actual teaching is done online at both primary and secondary level(not setting work and correcting).
Teaching should be recorded in the classroom every day from 9.30-1pm and then revision/homework assisted by parents from 1.30- 3pm. Recording teaching means that you could also rotate half the class into the physical space and half out if desired- but all lessons are recorded and available online (also for children with underlying risk).

Edit- Ive read all the arguments about money and tech and yes the government needs to stump up. Especially if a vaccine will take time and this could be normal for years now.

jrosen · 17-07-2020 03:04PM

Blazer wrote: »

that's my point really. Sure kids would be unhappy but they can bloody suck it up.
Its better than letting a few hundred children across the country suffer poor grades /lack of education over the next few years. Because the way its currently being planned or a lack of planning its going to be an utter farce.
At least this way you get kids back to school and you could do maybe staggered days etc and combine with home tuition and if they only managed 2-3 days a week its all just repeat home and in fairness there's no harm in going back over what've they've learned.

I dont think its a case of suck it up, more a case of keeping kids engaged so that their education doesnt suffer even more. While younger kids may not notice much I cant imagine it will be easy to keep a 5th/6th years engaged and motivated.
Its actually a challenge in normal times for alot of parents.

Look I dont have any great suggestions myself but repeating a year would be last resort for me

jrosen · 17-07-2020 03:06PM

Can classes be live streamed? Family in the US had live streamed classes which seemed to work well.

wirelessdude01 · 17-07-2020 03:09PM

jrosen wrote: »

Can classes be live streamed? Family in the US had live streamed classes which seemed to work well.

As in live stream the class that half the class is attending to the other half at home?

khalessi · 17-07-2020 03:11PM

jrosen wrote: »

Can classes be live streamed? Family in the US had live streamed classes which seemed to work well.

I would say that would depend on the technology available in the school and also the school IT policy. Parents would want to be sitting with younger students during streaming. There have been issues of children messing, sites hacked and parents arguing cursing in background so those issues would have to be sorted first.

Pre recorded could be an option maybe

wirelessdude01 · 17-07-2020 03:13PM

khalessi wrote: »

I would say that would depend on the technology available in the school and also the school IT policy. Parents would want to be sitting with younger students during streaming. There have been issues of children messing, sites hacked and parents arguing cursing in background so those issues would have to be sorted first.

Pre recorded could be an option maybe

I had some of those issues using zoom. Children messing and parents cursing being the main issues.

jrosen · 17-07-2020 03:13PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

As in live stream the class that half the class is attending to the other half at home?

? Either or I guess. I would think might be easier for the teacher to be in the classroom alone? Then no class disruptions.

jrosen · 17-07-2020 03:14PM

I know my friends who's schools did it were really happy and the standard of education delivered seemed pretty on par with normal. They did shorter bursts as its unreasonable to expect kids to sit at the screen for long periods of time. All kids stayed on mute.

r93kaey5p2izun · 17-07-2020 03:17PM

jrosen wrote: »

Can classes be live streamed? Family in the US had live streamed classes which seemed to work well.

Do you want your child taught properly when in class? If so are you happy for all their academic performance and behaviours and eccentricities to be live streamed into other people's homes, and possibly recorded? Like when the teacher asks for answers or contributions to something and your child says something odd, or tells an embarrassing story about your family that they think is relevant to the context. And it's no longer something forgotten about in a few minutes, or just heard by peers, but is now viewed by other adults and siblings and could be recorded. The only way not to expose all these vulnerable moments to all sorts is to have lessons like a lecture, which is not desirable use of precious classroom time imo.

NelRom · 17-07-2020 03:19PM

If the government will not plan for streaming lessons for most of the day, and a resumption of actual teaching.....
then something will have to be put in place to support parents trying to work from home.
It will be impossible for me and partner to work from home, and more than likely myself try to teach a 1st year curriculum and a 5th class too.

tscul32 · 17-07-2020 03:25PM

Blazer wrote: »

To be honest I think the best solution would have been to freeze all classes moving forward and have every class from primary to college all repeat. That way no kids would lose out and the years refresher would do no harm while giving all schools a year to implement better plans.
The DoE is basically a joke..their latest recommendations are so vague its a farce.
The danger of pushing on is a lot of kids could lose out on education and we end up with a so called lost generation in future years.
By repeating we avoid this, obviously there are other issues etc such as pre-school but its no harm increasing the age at when children start school as in sweden and other places people throw out as having better education.

Not sure if its viable but the other options being considered aren't much either.

Have to say this would be a disaster for my kids. They've just finished 2nd and 6th class and 2nd year (would be fine for him actually, he'd just complain about the extra year in school). The primary ones were already bored enough. The 2nd class one needs to move on and learn new topics, he's fairly bright and chomping at the bit. The 6th class one the same, so ready for secondary, would completely disengage if he had to repeat and then I'd struggle to get him back the following year. Even the home schooling was tough with him cos most was revision, curriculum had been more or less covered, he used to give his maths revision to the younger one who loved it.

JDD · 17-07-2020 03:26PM

To a certain extent I could see this working. Even for my soon-to-be senior infant. If the teacher put them all on mute then there should be no issue with messing/cursing. I'm not sure on zoom, but on WebEx there's a "put up your hand" button, and the teacher can always click on that.

Just lets not go back to filling out templates on seesaw. What a farce.

Let's watch a you tube video of how to write the letter J, then another you tube video on the song for the letter J, then get your parent to get you to learn the song off by heart, and then video it, and then break your parent's heart trying to upload the video while you get bored and wander off. Once that's done lets get your parent to get the play dough out so that you can make the letter J, and take a picture and upload it. Then have an argument with your parent about clearing up the play dough. Then let's get your parent to be teacher and carry out eight or nine different exercises with you on the letter J. Then fill out a template recognizing pictures that start with the letter J. Then upload the template while your child wanders off because seesaw has crashed for the third time that day. Then lets fill out a page in your copybook writing the letter J, because you totally know how to do it now with the youtube video teaching you. Then upload a picture of the copybook.

Rinse. Repeat on three other subjects that day.

Get a text or voice message back from your teacher the next day saying "great job on your song", or "great job on your writing". You don't even listen to the feedback anymore because it's generally the same everyday.

Get up the next day. Repeat.

I think I've been saying it on other posts, but I won't be doing seesaw again.

Speak Now · 17-07-2020 03:32PM

On line teaching would be a great idea, if only we had a national broadband plan!!!

Boggles · 17-07-2020 03:33PM

NelRom wrote: »

If the government will not plan for streaming lessons for most of the day, and a resumption of actual teaching.....
then something will have to be put in place to support parents trying to work from home.
It will be impossible for me and partner to work from home, and more than likely myself try to teach a 1st year curriculum and a 5th class too.

You mean like?

mary-poppins-returns.jpg?w=1000

Yeah, of all the things that are not going to happen, the government are not going to provide you with someone to come to your home and teach your kids, especially during a resurgence of a deadly global pandemic.

Blazer · 17-07-2020 03:37PM

JDD wrote: »

To a certain extent I could see this working. Even for my soon-to-be senior infant. If the teacher put them all on mute then there should be no issue with messing/cursing. I'm not sure on zoom, but on WebEx there's a "put up your hand" button, and the teacher can always click on that.

Just lets not go back to filling out templates on seesaw. What a farce.

Let's watch a you tube video of how to write the letter J, then another you tube video on the song for the letter J, then get your parent to get you to learn the song off by heart, and then video it, and then break your parent's heart trying to upload the video while you get bored and wander off. Once that's done lets get your parent to get the play dough out so that you can make the letter J, and take a picture and upload it. Then have an argument with your parent about clearing up the play dough. Then let's get your parent to be teacher and carry out eight or nine different exercises with you on the letter J. Then fill out a template recognizing pictures that start with the letter J. Then upload the template while your child wanders off because seesaw has crashed for the third time that day. Then lets fill out a page in your copybook writing the letter J, because you totally know how to do it now with the youtube video teaching you. Then upload a picture of the copybook.

Rinse. Repeat on three other subjects that day.

Get a text or voice message back from your teacher the next day saying "great job on your song", or "great job on your writing". You don't even listen to the feedback anymore because it's generally the same everyday.

Get up the next day. Repeat.

I think I've been saying it on other posts, but I won't be doing seesaw again.

lol that mirrors my seesaw experience exactly.

vid36 · 17-07-2020 03:38PM

tscul32 wrote: »

Have to say this would be a disaster for my kids. They've just finished 2nd and 6th class and 2nd year (would be fine for him actually, he'd just complain about the extra year in school). The primary ones were already bored enough. The 2nd class one needs to move on and learn new topics, he's fairly bright and chomping at the bit. The 6th class one the same, so ready for secondary, would completely disengage if he had to repeat and then I'd struggle to get him back the following year. Even the home schooling was tough with him cos most was revision, curriculum had been more or less covered, he used to give his maths revision to the younger one who loved it.[/QUOT

I agree with the previous poster, repeating classes has to be an option for those kids who for various reasons are struggling with online learning.We cannot just abandon them and hope for the best. Likewise, children who are capable of advancing should do so. But these are exceptional circumstances and we need to be flexible.We cannot adapt an Trump style approach that schools are opening regardless of the virus levels and human cost.
Right now, we will be able to reopen to schools but it will be a very disrupted year.

17-07-2020 03:41PM

NelRom wrote: »

.......................
then something will have to be put in place to support parents trying to work from home.
It will be impossible for me and partner to work from home, and more than likely myself try to teach a 1st year curriculum and a 5th class too.

What sort of something?

Parents can't be expected to teach 1st year curriculum (or any other), in many cases the parents themselves aren't up to that standard.

wirelessdude01 · 17-07-2020 03:47PM

To be frank I don't think that repeating the year is on the table at all. As it is there is vastly reduced amount of crèche/montessori places and will be going forward. Repeating a year just cause more issues that it would ever solve

JDD · 17-07-2020 03:47PM

Yeah, we're not going to get childminders for free, but maybe the government could bring in "excused absence" temporary leave of say, five hours per week, for anyone that is homeschooling a child? Perhaps your employer could pay you half your salary for those five hours, and the remainder could be claimed back as a tax relief?

Giving government support in the form of something official like that does more than just keep you in a salary - it shows to employers that the government understands the importance of your child's education and how that should trump whatever job you are doing from home, and that continuing flexibility and understanding should be provided by employers to parents who are homeschooling.

I know there isn't a bottomless pit of money available to support everyone into the distance, and I would understand if the government said "you know, that's great, but there just isn't the money to do this what with the numbers of unemployed we are expecting" but even some kiteflying in the newspapers about it would be better than nothing.

NelRom · 17-07-2020 03:49PM

Not at all what I meant (mary poppins) but yeah good one. I meant some form of teaching resources supported by actual in classroom teachers (with or without kids in classroom).
Basically, if there will be any expectation for parental involvement to continue it cannot be the seesaw farce that so many of us experienced.

We need actual teaching from teachers in some format which parents can manage if they are working.
So as I said for example pre recorded taught lessons from 9.30-1 and then parental revision and homework 1.30-3pm.
Its constant, it's predictable, the teacher can do the science experiment rather than telling me to go to my cupboard full of lolly pop sticks, shoe boxes and crafting materials

while I also try to do my job

JDD · 17-07-2020 03:55PM

NelRom wrote: »

Not at all what I meant (mary poppins) but yeah good one.

I meant some form of teaching resources supported by actual in classroom teachers.

What I would like is a "train the trainer" course for two days at the start of term. Clearly this isn't going to make you into a teacher, but I'm sure the teachers have a wealth of information and tips that could be condensed over a two day course. I'd also like a ladybird course booklet for each subject that tells you what is going to be covered over the course of the year, what learning outcomes you are hoping to achieve, and where you find further information on the curriculum if you have the time and inclination to read the hundreds of pages covering the curriculum on the DoE's website.

NelRom · 17-07-2020 03:57PM

Both great suggestions...

Boggles · 17-07-2020 04:01PM

NelRom wrote: »

Not at all what I meant (mary poppins) but yeah good one. I meant some form of teaching resources supported by actual in classroom teachers (with or without kids in classroom).
Basically, if there will be any expectation for parental involvement to continue it cannot be the seesaw farce that so many of us experienced.

We need actual teaching from teachers in some format which parents can manage if they are working.
So as I said for example pre recorded taught lessons from 9.30-1 and then parental revision and homework 1.30-3pm.
Its constant, it's predictable, the teacher can do the science experiment rather than telling me to go to my cupboard full of lolly pop sticks, shoe boxes and crafting materials while I also try to do my job

Will an average child stay tuned to a pre record for 3 and a half hours?

No.

It's the reason you hear phrases like

"Sean stop staring out the fúcking window and look at me" a million times everyday during normal classes.

NelRom · 17-07-2020 04:04PM

Boggles wrote: »

Will an average child stay tuned to a pre record for 3 and a half hours?

No.

It's the reason you hear phrases like

"Sean stop staring out the fúcking window and look at me" a million times everyday during normal classes.

I would say we have to plan to give the best education experience possible. Not based on an average child can't concentrate for that long- which is the same as a classroom as you pointed out. Also you take a 15 minute PE break, a 30 min music break- similar to classroom
This shifts the burden of teaching back to teachers in a supported way for parents to do revision and homework at the end of the day so teachers can mark the previous days work/plan.

Blazer · 17-07-2020 04:15PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

To be frank I don't think that repeating the year is on the table at all. As it is there is vastly reduced amount of crèche/montessori places and will be going forward. Repeating a year just cause more issues that it would ever solve

like what?
I'm just curious that's all.
There are pros and cons to most solutions so just wondering the cons of repeating?
None of them really seem that terrible.

iamwhoiam · 17-07-2020 04:20PM

NelRom wrote: »

I would say we have to plan to give the best education experience possible. Not based on an average child can't concentrate for that long- which is the same as a classroom as you pointed out. Also you take a 15 minute PE break, a 30 min music break- similar to classroom
This shifts the burden of teaching back to teachers in a supported way for parents to do revision and homework at the end of the day so teachers can mark the previous days work/plan.

How many parents are at home and not working and could give that time to a child ? Or indeed to two or three children? Many parents are working full time either away from or at home . Parents have babies to mind or children with special needs to care
Education would be totally unbalanced and some having time to educate at home and many others not being able to at all

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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