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Child Item

How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

I would say that would depend on the technology available in the school and also the school IT policy. Parents would want to be sitting with younger students during streaming. There have been issues of children messing, sites hacked and parents arguing cursing in background so those issues would have to be sorted first.

Pre recorded could be an option maybe

I had some of those issues using zoom. Children messing and parents cursing being the main issues.

khalessi

jrosen wrote: »

Can classes be live streamed? Family in the US had live streamed classes which seemed to work well.

I would say that would depend on the technology available in the school and also the school IT policy. Parents would want to be sitting with younger students during streaming. There have been issues of children messing, sites hacked and parents arguing cursing in background so those issues would have to be sorted first.

Pre recorded could be an option maybe

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

Can classes be live streamed? Family in the US had live streamed classes which seemed to work well.

As in live stream the class that half the class is attending to the other half at home?

jrosen

Can classes be live streamed? Family in the US had live streamed classes which seemed to work well.

jrosen

Blazer wrote: »

that's my point really. Sure kids would be unhappy but they can bloody suck it up.
Its better than letting a few hundred children across the country suffer poor grades /lack of education over the next few years. Because the way its currently being planned or a lack of planning its going to be an utter farce.
At least this way you get kids back to school and you could do maybe staggered days etc and combine with home tuition and if they only managed 2-3 days a week its all just repeat home and in fairness there's no harm in going back over what've they've learned.

I dont think its a case of suck it up, more a case of keeping kids engaged so that their education doesnt suffer even more. While younger kids may not notice much I cant imagine it will be easy to keep a 5th/6th years engaged and motivated.
Its actually a challenge in normal times for alot of parents.

Look I dont have any great suggestions myself but repeating a year would be last resort for me

NelRom

I have a child going into 1st year and as he hasn't been taught for months now, yes I want his education to resume either in the school or fully online. I don't want to pause and repeat the same year again for him- how depressing.

It's incredible that we are still not actively aiming for plan B where actual teaching is done online at both primary and secondary level(not setting work and correcting).
Teaching should be recorded in the classroom every day from 9.30-1pm and then revision/homework assisted by parents from 1.30- 3pm. Recording teaching means that you could also rotate half the class into the physical space and half out if desired- but all lessons are recorded and available online (also for children with underlying risk).

Edit- Ive read all the arguments about money and tech and yes the government needs to stump up. Especially if a vaccine will take time and this could be normal for years now.

Blazer

that's my point really. Sure kids would be unhappy but they can bloody suck it up.
Its better than letting a few hundred children across the country suffer poor grades /lack of education over the next few years. Because the way its currently being planned or a lack of planning its going to be an utter farce.
At least this way you get kids back to school and you could do maybe staggered days etc and combine with home tuition and if they only managed 2-3 days a week its all just repeat home and in fairness there's no harm in going back over what've they've learned.

Multipass

JDD wrote: »

Surely this repeating the year thing has something to it.

Is it so awful that you would have two or three 14 year olds per year in 6th class? The vast majority of them would be 13, with a fair minority being 12 and turning 13 at some point during the year. Would you really want your child to move on to 1st year - which is challenging enough from a social perspective in normal times - during a period where they will probably be in school for three weeks and at home for a period and then back in school again? Surely it would be less damaging for them to be in 6th class, in a familiar environment, with their current friends, covering familiar topics, just for this year?

If I was a fifth year going into sixth year, I would also much prefer to repeat fifth year again. No way would I want to be heading into my leaving cert year worrying about how I was going to combine school and at home learning, separate from my peer support group, with the uncertainty of whether the leaving cert will actually go ahead. So what if you are a year older going to college?

I admit, my kids wouldn't be too impressed with not moving on to senior infants and third class, but it would reduce all manner of stress in our house when the time comes to homeschool (as it will inevitably come) if they are covering topics as revision, rather than learning them for the first time.

God no, 6th class was a dreadful year for my son. Bored to tears. I mean really really bored to the point of depression. Too easy, too slow, too childish. It did him a lot of damage.

JDD

Surely this repeating the year thing has something to it.

Is it so awful that you would have two or three 14 year olds per year in 6th class? The vast majority of them would be 13, with a fair minority being 12 and turning 13 at some point during the year. Would you really want your child to move on to 1st year - which is challenging enough from a social perspective in normal times - during a period where they will probably be in school for three weeks and at home for a period and then back in school again? Surely it would be less damaging for them to be in 6th class, in a familiar environment, with their current friends, covering familiar topics, just for this year?

If I was a fifth year going into sixth year, I would also much prefer to repeat fifth year again. No way would I want to be heading into my leaving cert year worrying about how I was going to combine school and at home learning, separate from my peer support group, with the uncertainty of whether the leaving cert will actually go ahead. So what if you are a year older going to college?

I admit, my kids wouldn't be too impressed with not moving on to senior infants and third class, but it would reduce all manner of stress in our house when the time comes to homeschool (as it will inevitably come) if they are covering topics as revision, rather than learning them for the first time.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

I don't know what's up with the new government stoking the panic and bringing in new restrictions with the threat of rolling back on phases now.

Our testing has increased four fold in some cases over the past couple of weeks, so yes numbers are up.

Travel will be the one thing that will ruin it for us, I'm hoping that the majority of people will have sense when it comes to non essential trips abroad.

It's like a month ago the focus was on getting everyone back to work and schools planning for opening and now it's panic stirring again.

It's very worrying, I have felt so hopeful up to now but it's just depressing at this stage.

jrosen

Blazer wrote: »

better than that than sending them off to secondary school where a lot of them could get significant delays in education needs etc.

It would be really difficult for the 6th years and older kids. They are already outgrowing the school system by then, anther year would be a nightmare for them.

Much easier to accommodate and catch up for younger years I would think .

wirelessdude01

Blazer wrote: »

better than that than sending them off to secondary school where a lot of them could get significant delays in education needs etc.

Shouldn't be an issue for the vast vast majority of new 1st years.

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

Im a parent who is pushing for a full return to school but that was if we continued to see the pattern we had. But as the cases increase of course it places huge doubt on the ability of schools to return. Which is why its even more important for their to be a plan B. A workable accessible plan that enables some level of education to be delivered to the students of Ireland. With systems in place that monitor quality and engagement of teachers and students. Anything else is simply failing the kids.

And still we wait on the department.

Blazer

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Never a workable solution on any level.

You'd have 14yr olds still in primary for starters.

better than that than sending them off to secondary school where a lot of them could get significant delays in education needs etc.

jrosen

Im a parent who is pushing for a full return to school but that was if we continued to see the pattern we had. But as the cases increase of course it places huge doubt on the ability of schools to return. Which is why its even more important for their to be a plan B. A workable accessible plan that enables some level of education to be delivered to the students of Ireland. With systems in place that monitor quality and engagement of teachers and students. Anything else is simply failing the kids.

wirelessdude01

Blazer wrote: »

To be honest I think the best solution would have been to freeze all classes moving forward and have every class from primary to college all repeat. That way no kids would lose out and the years refresher would do no harm while giving all schools a year to implement better plans.
The DoE is basically a joke..their latest recommendations are so vague its a farce.
The danger of pushing on is a lot of kids could lose out on education and we end up with a so called lost generation in future years.
By repeating we avoid this, obviously there are other issues etc such as pre-school but its no harm increasing the age at when children start school as in sweden and other places people throw out as having better education.

Not sure if its viable but the other options being considered aren't much either.

Never a workable solution on any level.

You'd have 14yr olds still in primary for starters.

jrosen

Blazer wrote: »

To be honest I think the best solution would have been to freeze all classes moving forward and have every class from primary to college all repeat. That way no kids would lose out and the years refresher would do no harm while giving all schools a year to implement better plans.
The DoE is basically a joke..their latest recommendations are so vague its a farce.
The danger of pushing on is a lot of kids could lose out on education and we end up with a so called lost generation in future years.
By repeating we avoid this, obviously there are other issues etc such as pre-school but its no harm increasing the age at when children start school as in sweden and other places people throw out as having better education.

Not sure if its viable but the other options being considered aren't much either.

Its not viable for many reasons, way back on this thread some were covered.

Blazer

To be honest I think the best solution would have been to freeze all classes moving forward and have every class from primary to college all repeat. That way no kids would lose out and the years refresher would do no harm while giving all schools a year to implement better plans.
The DoE is basically a joke..their latest recommendations are so vague its a farce.
The danger of pushing on is a lot of kids could lose out on education and we end up with a so called lost generation in future years.
By repeating we avoid this, obviously there are other issues etc such as pre-school but its no harm increasing the age at when children start school as in sweden and other places people throw out as having better education.

Not sure if its viable but the other options being considered aren't much either.

combat14

lads may forget about schools opening end of august till we get over the next few weeks ......

experts talking about return to phase 2 of lockdown if covid numbers keep rising ..

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-ireland-could-return-to-phase-2-of-lockdown-if-cases-rise-doctor-warns-1.4306951?mode=amp

History Queen

Del Griffith wrote: »

Germany getting on with it -

https://twitter.com/ADejeuville/status/1283472464757116930

That tweet is a bit misleading, the article the tweet author tags directly below it recommends opening primary schools and daycare centres with a limit on groups, only 5 to 7 children per group.

https://www.saechsische.de/corona-dresdner-arzt-reinhard-berner-plaediert-fuer-kita-oeffnung-5198750.html

And another twitter user posted a different article from Germany claiming that schools were not expected to open as normal in September in Germany. I've pasted the content of the article below but link to original article also posted:

"Passau (epd). The German Association of Cities and Towns assumes that there will be no normal school operations after the summer holidays due to the corona pandemic. General manager Gerd Landsberg told the "Passauer Neue Presse" (Wednesday) that special hygiene measures are still required at the start of the new school year. This included smaller learning groups, good ventilation of the rooms, more room capacity and probably more staff.

Landsberg said the association also refuses to block entire counties if corona infections occur. "A curfew for an entire group, especially when large areas are not affected, is likely to be difficult to organize and control," he said. The response to local outbreaks must be faster and more targeted. "Local lockdowns" should "be limited to the hotspot" as soon as it is found."

https://www.evangelisch.de/inhalte/172610/15-07-2020/staedtebund-kein-normaler-schulbetrieb-nach-sommerferien

GazzaL

Del Griffith wrote: »

Germany getting on with it -

https://twitter.com/ADejeuville/status/1283472464757116930

Great to see yet another country getting on with education. We will be surpassed by our friends in Europe. The abandonment of education in Ireland is a disgrace, it will be very damaging.

Del Griffith

Germany getting on with it -

https://twitter.com/ADejeuville/status/1283472464757116930

Mrsmum

deiseindublin wrote: »

Knowing already that it would be PG for sure next year would be awful pressure on students to my mind. Imagine being afraid to slip up or chill a bit in class any day, in case teacher that was predicting your grade noticed. A horrible thought.

I think there won't be a teacher or a LC student that won't have PG to the absolute forefront of their mind all through next year. They would be fools to think otherwise unless by some miracle everything runs smoothly from Sept which is highly unlikely. But imo students should know which system they are actually working to because it impacts whether they devote more time to handing up excellent work to their teacher or devoting themselves to loads of revision for the exam. Teacher v exam. Both systems ie terminal exam or PG call for utilising time differently. I just kinda think expecting them to ride two horses is unfair.

jlm29

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am not being smart but do they not have clothes already that they could wear ?

They’d need a lot more though? They’ll need a set of clothes for school, and I’d be putting clean clothes on them when they come home. Or maybe that’s excessive and unnecessary, i don’t know? Tbh, either way it’s going to be extra washing, but it would be easier to just put a navy tracksuit and a green jumper on every morning

deiseindublin

Knowing already that it would be PG for sure next year would be awful pressure on students to my mind. Imagine being afraid to slip up or chill a bit in class any day, in case teacher that was predicting your grade noticed. A horrible thought.

Mrsmum

KildareP wrote: »

I expect schools will open long enough to get people registered for next year and make preperations to close at an undetemined date in the (near) future. There'll be widespread closures once cold and flu season hits, since you will have to self isolate based on symptoms alone until you can be tested negative.

No way will it be business as usual even from the get go.

At best, we might see a number of parents voluntarily keeping their children at home but with the expectation of being able to watch the full school day live online.

There will be issues around transport - reduced load factor on Dublin Bus an Bus Eireann on public side, coupled with difficulties in private operators making ends up meet in keeping their buses running (also at reduced load) just for school runs may mean it's cheaper to keep their vehicles off the road.

Difficulties in maintaining social distancing in class, never mind school day arrival and departure, or on wet days.

Difficulties with teaching and admin staff who have to self isolate, either due to contracting Covid-19 or being in close contact with a high risk individual (eg partner in health service).

Then there's further longer term issues insofar as there is absolutely no indication whether you start back in September, running all assessments and tests with the mindset you are forming your students calculated grades for June 2021...

Considering those doing LC next year will have even more of a disrupted year than this year's cohort plus what they've already missed, wouldn't it be more honest for the DofE to say from the outset that of course it will be predictive grades again for next year.

wirelessdude01

KildareP wrote: »

Then there's further longer term issues insofar as there is absolutely no indication whether you start back in September, running all assessments and tests with the mindset you are forming your students calculated grades for June 2021...

I'm primary but I would guess that every principal in the country will tell the LC class of 2021 and their teachers to prepare for this possibility.

Bobtheman

Smacruairi wrote: »

With the news seemingly coming that the LC results will be delayed, despite the fact that teachers submitted their paperwork with very little fuss, on time, without much training, incentive or supports, and the govt STILL makes a mess of it, hopefully now those who don't teach are getting a sense of why teachers can not understand why the public blames teachers for the situation we are in.

The DES has made a mess of every single situation it has faced in this crisis. Any suggestions made by teachers, like hosting the leaving cert for example, were completely ignored, in favour of cowing down to shrill personalities.

I've tried to engage with the few rational posters asking questions, and even engaged with some of the more ignorant commentary, trying to explain and to enlighten. Hopefully those who were somewhat on the fence realise that maybe, just maybe, it's not the individual schools and teachers, but a higher up deficiency. We are not looking for sympathy, money, heroic status etc. Just a bit of objective understanding.

This is so well put

Bobtheman

Smacruairi wrote: »

With the news seemingly coming that the LC results will be delayed, despite the fact that teachers submitted their paperwork with very little fuss, on time, without much training, incentive or supports, and the govt STILL makes a mess of it, hopefully now those who don't teach are getting a sense of why teachers can not understand why the public blames teachers for the situation we are in.

The DES has made a mess of every single situation it has faced in this crisis. Any suggestions made by teachers, like hosting the leaving cert for example, were completely ignored, in favour of cowing down to shrill personalities.

I've tried to engage with the few rational posters asking questions, and even engaged with some of the more ignorant commentary, trying to explain and to enlighten. Hopefully those who were somewhat on the fence realise that maybe, just maybe, it's not the individual schools and teachers, but a higher up deficiency. We are not looking for sympathy, money, heroic status etc. Just a bit of objective understanding.

This is so well put

Smacruairi

Multipass wrote: »

Do you think the Dept has made a mess of it, or is this a tactic to make appeals impossible? I’m thinking it’s quite deliberate.

They don't have that level of foresight. Not in my experience. But if their machiavellian scheme works, then again, I hope the student's union and the Ciara Kellys reflect appropriately.