How will schools be able to go back in September?

selectamatic · 14-07-2020 07:47PM

Maybe I'm picking up on the tone of the post I responded to wrongly but to me it appeared to be placing an emphasis on what the teacher expected the sna's in the room to do but no mention of how this was communicated to them and it skipped over the reality there was very little they could do in terms of actually supporting care needs of sen kids. I can't really envisage how such a situation would unfold it really seems to be a fundamental breakdown in communication that I wouldn't be used to seeing in a school setting but in my school we all get on really well as a staff so we're in contact constantly anyways so perhaps this has coloured my view.

Calls to talk with students were great and the sna's in my school were really good for this too and really helped put some worried minds at ease but this is at the lower end of the spectrum of care needs.

For some kids on the more severe end of sen comprehending this whole situation has been near impossible and no amount of distanced methods can replace the support they would have normally received and it is a big worry how much of a social impact this whole thing has had on them.

Edit: the wordress after reading the above posts its clear you have a really poor professional relationship with the sna's in your room. I couldn't at all comment on how that has come to be but it definitely needs sorting as its not healthy for you the class teacher, the pupils in your room or indeed the sna's either. Constructive teamwork is critical in times like these.

youandme13 · 14-07-2020 08:18PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Creches are back weeks with rooms full of kids.

They are back open two weeks...

And it's hardly full, when theres ratios in place and not all the children have been sent back yet..

The Wordress · 14-07-2020 08:41PM

selectamatic wrote: »

Maybe I'm picking up on the tone of the post I responded to wrongly but to me it appeared to be placing an emphasis on what the teacher expected the sna's in the room to do but no mention of how this was communicated to them and it skipped over the reality there was very little they could do in terms of actually supporting care needs of sen kids. I can't really envisage how such a situation would unfold it really seems to be a fundamental breakdown in communication that I wouldn't be used to seeing in a school setting but in my school we all get on really well as a staff so we're in contact constantly anyways so perhaps this has coloured my view.

Calls to talk with students were great and the sna's in my school were really good for this too and really helped put some worried minds at ease but this is at the lower end of the spectrum of care needs.

For some kids on the more severe end of sen comprehending this whole situation has been near impossible and no amount of distanced methods can replace the support they would have normally received and it is a big worry how much of a social impact this whole thing has had on them.

Edit: the wordress after reading the above posts its clear you have a really poor professional relationship with the sna's in your room. I couldn't at all comment on how that has come to be but it definitely needs sorting as its not healthy for you the class teacher, the pupils in your room or indeed the sna's either. Constructive teamwork is critical in times like these.

I have only worked in my school since September. There is a mixed cohort of staff- some excellent and some as lazy as sin. Unfortunately, I got shafted with the 2 as lazy as sin with horrific attitudes. Probably for obvious reasons! The principal is basically frightened of certain members of staff and won't tackle the issues that need to be tackled. We were told early on that our SNAs were being redeployed and I ploughed on with supporting my children as best as I could. I then heard that they hadn't been and was perplexed as to why these staff members hadn't been directed to support me as a teacher and our SEN children.

At the end of the day, at the heart of my day are my children who deserve the best education.

JTMan · 14-07-2020 08:52PM

Interesting article and tweet on the risks ...

An asymptomatic child at an in-home daycare led to a #SARSCoV2 outbreak that has (so far) infected 16 in 4 families, incl 6 kids at the child care, 1 sib, 7 parents, & 2 grandmothers in case we’re wondering how school is going to go.

https://twitter.com/tmprowell/status/1283055557461540867

caveat emptor · 14-07-2020 08:54PM

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1283081290305146889?s=21

FeirmeoirtTed · 14-07-2020 09:01PM

The Wordress wrote: »

I have only worked in my school since September. There is a mixed cohort of staff- some excellent and some as lazy as sin. Unfortunately, I got shafted with the 2 as lazy as sin with horrific attitudes. Probably for obvious reasons! The principal is basically frightened of certain members of staff and won't tackle the issues that need to be tackled. We were told early on that our SNAs were being redeployed and I ploughed on with supporting my children as best as I could. I then heard that they hadn't been and was perplexed as to why these staff members hadn't been directed to support me as a teacher and our SEN children.

At the end of the day, at the heart of my day are my children who deserve the best education.

At the end of the day you as the class teacher are responsible for the education of all the children in your class even the ones with care needs who have access to a SNA. Your SNA is not responsible for teaching or planning work for the children. What were you expecting them to help you with?

byhookorbycrook · 14-07-2020 09:02PM

The Wordress wrote: »

Can I ask you what did your SNAs do? I want some examples so that I go in armed to my principal in September.

My apologies if this sounds rude , but it’s not your place to decide what SNAs do or don’t do. If your principal /SENCO was satisfied with the support offered by the SNAs , that’s up to them .

CruelSummer · 14-07-2020 09:09PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1283081290305146889?s=21

Oh just stop with the scaremongering. Children NEED an education, they’ve been deprived of it for months on end despite the fact most of them are not affected by Covid. We as a people have put up signs saying ‘no children allowed’ into shops and told them they’ll kill their grandparents if they hug them...this is not okay.
There is irreversible damage being done to children as we speak by this prolonged closure. This is our future generation and this in my opinion far outweighs any risks involved. Shield the at risk groups, be they older people, teachers with health issues, or others. Organise protocols for schools and childcare around it, time to get back to school. It’s beyond time actually.

khalessi · 14-07-2020 09:35PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Oh just stop with the scaremongering. Children NEED an education, they’ve been deprived of it for months on end despite the fact most of them are not affected by Covid. We as a people have put up signs saying ‘no children allowed’ into shops and told them they’ll kill their grandparents if they hug them...this is not okay.
There is irreversible damage being done to children as we speak by this prolonged closure. This is our future generation and this in my opinion far outweighs any risks involved. Shield the at risk groups, be they older people, teachers with health issues, or others. Organise protocols for schools and childcare around it, time to get back to school. It’s beyond time actually.

Yes children need an education but it has to be done in a safe environment. It doesnt take most of them, it just takes one to spread it and even your comment indicates that children can get it and spread it.

This was psoted anonymously on FB and just thought I would pop it here for anyone who is interested.

Please Post Anon
Given the ill-informed nature of the current media discussion about reopening schools, I want to arm other teachers with some accurate, evidence backed information about children and Covid-19. Based on the current research, there are two points which are worth remembering:
Children contract the virus at the same rate as adults.
The virus has, and will, spread in schools.
I will now provide evidence to support each point.
Children contract the virus at the same rate as adults.
You often hear that ‘children don’t get the virus’ or that children are the ‘least affected’ by Covid 19. The truth is that children are as likely to be infected with the virus as adults are.
This study from China found that “children were as likely to be infected as adults (infection rate 7·4% in children <10 years vs population average of 6·6%).” https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30287-5/fulltext
This study from Switzerland found that “no differences in seroprevalence between children and middle age adults are observed”. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20088898v1
This study from the UK found that “There is no evidence of differences in the proportions testing positive between the age categories 2 to 19, 20 to 49, 50 to 69 and 70 years and over.”
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/england14may2020
You may also hear that children are less infectious or don’t spread the virus. Studies have shown that theory to be false. Children have a similar viral load to adults.
This study from Germany notes that “there is little evidence from the present study to support suggestions that children may not be as infectious as adults. “
https://virologie-ccm.charite.de/fileadmin/user_upload/microsites/m_cc05/virologie-ccm/dateien_upload/Weitere_Dateien/Charite_SARS-CoV-2_viral_load_2020-06-02.pdf
Two more studies, one more from Germany and one from South Korea, reached the same conclusion.
https://zoonosen.charite.de/fileadmin/user_upload/microsites/m_cc05/virologie-ccm/dateien_upload/Weitere_Dateien/analysis-of-SARS-CoV-2-viral-load-by-patient-age.pdf
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-2449_article
Covid-19 has, and will, spread in schools.
The notion that opening schools fully is ‘the safest thing we can do’ has become a much repeated talking point. There is nothing exceptional, however, about the school environment. The virus has spread in schools in other countries. The virus will spread in Irish schools in September.
Israel has entered a second lockdown and schools are to blame. In testimony to the Israeli parliament, Israel’s deputy Director of Public Health Services , Dr. Udi Kliner, said that “schools, not restaurants or gyms, turned out to be the country’s worst mega-infectors.”
https://www.haveeru.com.mv/the-second-wave-of-covid-hits-israel-like-a-tsunami/
A study from the United States shows that child to child, adult to adult, adult to child, and child to adult transmission does occur.
https://academic.oup.com/jpids/article/doi/10.1093/jpids/piaa070/5849922
In Sweden, “The relatively high rate (of antibodies) in children suggests there may have been significant spread in schools.” https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/how-sweden-wasted-rare-opportunity-study-coronavirus-schools
In Australia, a school is said to be at the centre of the recent outbreak in Melbourne. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-09/al-taqwa-college-coronavirus-covid19-cluster-melbourne-truganina/12437584
One of the drivers of the recent lockdown in Leicester was spread in schools. Matt Hancock, the UK’s Health Secretary, said that “There are a lot of U18s who have tested positive...the safest thing we can do is close the schools”. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/matt-hancock-local-lockdown-leicester-18511786.
Texas has seen 1,300 cases in child care centres since they reopened.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/06/health/texas-coronavirus-cases-child-care-facilities/index.html
These are inconvenient truths. In the rush to reopen schools fully, it has been left to teachers to point them out. I hope the evidence I have provided here will help us in our fight for a safe workplace.

markodaly · 15-07-2020 02:14AM

khalessi wrote: »

If the government can happily pour 360 million into cylceways or a couple of million into doing up the Cliff of Moher, then they could put money into schools. Schools have been neglected for years and it should not have taken a pandemic to bring this to peoples attention. There are guidelines for every other sector reopening.

.

This is a non sequitur. Putting money into cycle lanes in of itself has nothing to do with funding for schools.
But I do find this a tad ironic though. When is the last time teacher unions put funding for infrastructure ahead of their own pay claims? This is a genuine question.

The teachers never went on strike for the lack of funding into schools. Its a bit rich to be crying about it now.

khalessi · 15-07-2020 02:20AM

markodaly wrote: »

This is a non sequitur. Putting money into cycle lanes in of itself has nothing to do with funding for schools.
But I do find this a tad ironic though. When is the last time teacher unions put funding for infrastructure ahead of their own pay claims? This is a genuine question.

The teachers never went on strike for the lack of funding into schools. Its a bit rich to be crying about it now.

Teachers have been crying out about infrastructure for years, there are marches on the Dail. Indeed my own school marched due to the fact we had over 50% prefabs, but that is not what the media report and anyhow not what you want to hear since you only have one agenda, going by this and your previous posts.

kowloonkev · 15-07-2020 07:15AM

I think the time has come to make a plan for secondary and upper primary online education for the next school year, and announce that kids will not return to the school premises en masse until at least September 2021. Lower primary students could be spread out using the empty upper primary classrooms.

Teachers should be in school from this September to provide online classes and the infrastructure should be put in place for them to do so.

The situation is too changeable and I strongly doubt Ireland would get more than a month into a regular school year before being forced to close again, and then still not having a coordinated plan for that scenario.

Jim Root · 15-07-2020 07:28AM

khalessi wrote: »

Yes children need an education but it has to be done in a safe environment. It doesnt take most of them, it just takes one to spread it and even your comment indicates that children can get it and spread it.

This was psoted anonymously on FB and just thought I would pop it here for anyone who is interested.

Please Post Anon
Given the ill-informed nature of the current media discussion about reopening schools, I want to arm other teachers with some accurate, evidence backed information about children and Covid-19. Based on the current research, there are two points which are worth remembering:
Children contract the virus at the same rate as adults.
The virus has, and will, spread in schools.
I will now provide evidence to support each point.
Children contract the virus at the same rate as adults.
You often hear that ‘children don’t get the virus’ or that children are the ‘least affected’ by Covid 19. The truth is that children are as likely to be infected with the virus as adults are.
This study from China found that “children were as likely to be infected as adults (infection rate 7·4% in children <10 years vs population average of 6·6%).” https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30287-5/fulltext
This study from Switzerland found that “no differences in seroprevalence between children and middle age adults are observed”. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20088898v1
This study from the UK found that “There is no evidence of differences in the proportions testing positive between the age categories 2 to 19, 20 to 49, 50 to 69 and 70 years and over.”
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/england14may2020
You may also hear that children are less infectious or don’t spread the virus. Studies have shown that theory to be false. Children have a similar viral load to adults.
This study from Germany notes that “there is little evidence from the present study to support suggestions that children may not be as infectious as adults. “
https://virologie-ccm.charite.de/fileadmin/user_upload/microsites/m_cc05/virologie-ccm/dateien_upload/Weitere_Dateien/Charite_SARS-CoV-2_viral_load_2020-06-02.pdf
Two more studies, one more from Germany and one from South Korea, reached the same conclusion.
https://zoonosen.charite.de/fileadmin/user_upload/microsites/m_cc05/virologie-ccm/dateien_upload/Weitere_Dateien/analysis-of-SARS-CoV-2-viral-load-by-patient-age.pdf
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-2449_article
Covid-19 has, and will, spread in schools.
The notion that opening schools fully is ‘the safest thing we can do’ has become a much repeated talking point. There is nothing exceptional, however, about the school environment. The virus has spread in schools in other countries. The virus will spread in Irish schools in September.
Israel has entered a second lockdown and schools are to blame. In testimony to the Israeli parliament, Israel’s deputy Director of Public Health Services , Dr. Udi Kliner, said that “schools, not restaurants or gyms, turned out to be the country’s worst mega-infectors.”
https://www.haveeru.com.mv/the-second-wave-of-covid-hits-israel-like-a-tsunami/
A study from the United States shows that child to child, adult to adult, adult to child, and child to adult transmission does occur.
https://academic.oup.com/jpids/article/doi/10.1093/jpids/piaa070/5849922
In Sweden, “The relatively high rate (of antibodies) in children suggests there may have been significant spread in schools.” https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/how-sweden-wasted-rare-opportunity-study-coronavirus-schools
In Australia, a school is said to be at the centre of the recent outbreak in Melbourne. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-09/al-taqwa-college-coronavirus-covid19-cluster-melbourne-truganina/12437584
One of the drivers of the recent lockdown in Leicester was spread in schools. Matt Hancock, the UK’s Health Secretary, said that “There are a lot of U18s who have tested positive...the safest thing we can do is close the schools”. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/matt-hancock-local-lockdown-leicester-18511786.
Texas has seen 1,300 cases in child care centres since they reopened.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/06/health/texas-coronavirus-cases-child-care-facilities/index.html
These are inconvenient truths. In the rush to reopen schools fully, it has been left to teachers to point them out. I hope the evidence I have provided here will help us in our fight for a safe workplace.

That’s all fine. They can go on the PUP then like the rest of the country who’s workplace was closed because of the virus.

taylor3 · 15-07-2020 07:34AM

kowloonkev wrote: »

I think the time has come to make a plan for secondary and upper primary online education for the next school year, and announce that kids will not return to the school premises en masse until at least September 2021. Lower primary students could be spread out using the empty upper primary classrooms.

Teachers should be in school from this September to provide online classes and the infrastructure should be put in place for them to do so.

The situation is too changeable and I strongly doubt Ireland would get more than a month into a regular school year before being forced to close again, and then still not having a coordinated plan for that scenario.

What about exam classes, next June as exams are about to start how and what way would they facilitate that? I ask because my daughter is going into 3rd year this September.

MickeyLeari · 15-07-2020 07:45AM

taylor3 wrote: »

What about exam classes, next June as exams are about to start how and what way would they facilitate that? I ask because my daughter is going into 3rd year this September.

Could the leaving cert have run in two weeks time as initially planned? Absolutely.

scrubs33 · 15-07-2020 07:56AM

I know we give out about them but does anyone else find the lack of leaks a bit concerning? I presume negotiations around a return to school must be going on but its now the middle of July and the window for something definite to emerge before the August shutdown is getting very narrow.

khalessi · 15-07-2020 08:24AM

Jim Root wrote: »

That’s all fine. They can go on the PUP then like the rest of the country who’s workplace was closed because of the virus.

Or the Department can prvide the protections other sectors get, which is all that is being asked for but ignored as it means inputting money into education.

MickeyLeari · 15-07-2020 08:34AM

scrubs33 wrote: »

I know we give out about them but does anyone else find the lack of leaks a bit concerning? I presume negotiations around a return to school must be going on but its now the middle of July and the window for something definite to emerge before the August shutdown is getting very narrow.

The leaks usually happen when things are not going well and one side or the other flex muscles in the court of public opinion or to their base/members.

wirelessdude01 · 15-07-2020 08:36AM

Jim Root wrote: »

That’s all fine. They can go on the PUP then like the rest of the country who’s workplace was closed because of the virus.

A simple question, why should I? If not in the school building then I'll be working from home.

wirelessdude01 · 15-07-2020 08:49AM

scrubs33 wrote: »

I know we give out about them but does anyone else find the lack of leaks a bit concerning? I presume negotiations around a return to school must be going on but its now the middle of July and the window for something definite to emerge before the August shutdown is getting very narrow.

Leaks generally occur for one of two reasons:

1. Someone likes the attention of passing on information or
2. One side doesn't like how the talks are progressing and feeds information to the media to distort the talks.

Personally for me I think the whole curriculum area is a huge subfocus within these talks. Curriculum is going to be squeezed with cut for curtailed due to time constraints.

tscul32 · 15-07-2020 09:18AM

kowloonkev wrote: »

I think the time has come to make a plan for secondary and upper primary online education for the next school year, and announce that kids will not return to the school premises en masse until at least September 2021. Lower primary students could be spread out using the empty upper primary classrooms.

Teachers should be in school from this September to provide online classes and the infrastructure should be put in place for them to do so.

Where do the upper primary teachers do these online classes in school if the lower classes have been split and are using all the classrooms? And who is teaching the split classes, they only have one teacher per class.

I'm not trying to just shoot down your idea, I think everyone needs to keep thinking of options but there are just so many things to consider. And no matter what solution is chosen there will need to be a considerable injection of funds.

My kids are going into 3rd class, 1st year and 3rd year. It's the middle one I feel for the most, because if he doesn't get into the actual building he could have a year done without knowing any class mates as he's the only student from his primary going to that school. And with all the newness of secondary for him it will be hard. I just hope there is some concrete plan soon so that everyone -teachers, parents and students - can prepare.

caveat emptor · 15-07-2020 09:36AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Oh just stop with the scaremongering. Children NEED an education, they’ve been deprived of it for months on end despite the fact most of them are not affected by Covid. We as a people have put up signs saying ‘no children allowed’ into shops and told them they’ll kill their grandparents if they hug them...this is not okay.
There is irreversible damage being done to children as we speak by this prolonged closure. This is our future generation and this in my opinion far outweighs any risks involved. Shield the at risk groups, be they older people, teachers with health issues, or others. Organise protocols for schools and childcare around it, time to get back to school. It’s beyond time actually.

Not scaremongering. I agree with you that we need to get kids back. It's disgraceful that we are putting American tourists ahead of their wellbeing. How do you think this is going to go? Really?
Have you ever caught a viral respiratory infection in summer? like a flu or a cold?
It's going to be a **** show unless we actually contain it.

Kids will be sad if they can't go back to school but they'll be even more sad if their kidneys don't work.

Here, we present the findings of 52 paediatric patients (age 0–16 years) admitted to Great Ormond Street Hospital for Children NHS Foundation Trust (London, UK) since March 25, 2020, with confirmed severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection, diagnosed by either a positive PCR result or seropositivity (appendix p 1).

Of 52 inpatients, 24 (46%) had a serum creatinine greater than the ULRI, and 15 (29%) met the BAPN diagnostic criteria for acute kidney injury. Urine output was not used to define acute kidney injury as fluid balance was often inaccurately recorded at the time of transfer to our hospital. Most cases of acute kidney injury occurred in those admitted to the paediatric ICU (14 [93%] patients), and in those with paediatric inflammatory multisystem syndrome temporarily associated with SARS-CoV-2 (PIMS-TS; 11 [73%] patients). Unsurprisingly, patients with acute kidney injury were more likely to have diarrhoea and vomiting at presentation (appendix p 1), thereby suggesting prerenal involvement.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7295466/

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1283291803312160768?s=20

timmy_mallet · 15-07-2020 09:51AM

kowloonkev wrote: »

I think the time has come to make a plan for secondary and upper primary online education for the next school year, and announce that kids will not return to the school premises en masse until at least September 2021. Lower primary students could be spread out using the empty upper primary classrooms.

Teachers should be in school from this September to provide online classes and the infrastructure should be put in place for them to do so.

The situation is too changeable and I strongly doubt Ireland would get more than a month into a regular school year before being forced to close again, and then still not having a coordinated plan for that scenario.

2021? I think that's silly to put a date on it. Cancel state schooling altogether for the foreseeable. Parents and communities need to start coming with their own plans to educate their children, because it's becoming clear that the primary stakeholders won't be able to.

rob316 · 15-07-2020 11:36AM

They had some smug **** from a teachers union on primetime there last week, I wanted to smack him through the TV. He says our members work environment should be "covid safe". Its an essential service, why do you deserve to be covid safe when nurses are working in a dangerous environment, retail workers, emergency services etc etc.

The power we give to these unions is ridiculous. Can we expect extra school days next year for our kids they have lost? Can we ****, it'll be pay increases this lot will be looking for its members.

History Queen · 15-07-2020 11:42AM

rob316 wrote: »

They had some smug **** from a teachers union on primetime there last week, I wanted to smack him through the TV. He says our members work environment should be "covid safe". Its an essential service, why do you deserve to be covid safe when nurses are working in a dangerous environment, retail workers, emergency services etc etc.

The power we give to these unions is ridiculous. Can we expect extra school days next year for our kids they have lost? Can we ****, it'll be pay increases this lot will be looking for its members.

Covid safe meaning (I think) the same types of measures should apply to schools as apply to shops/restaurants etc.

The unions aren't powerful. If they were the pay equality issue wouldn't be dragging on for almost a decade.

Unions act on behalf of their members , in this case teachers. Teachers want schools adequately resourced and equipped so we don't have clusters and closures next year, further disrupting the education of our students. Also, perhaps selfishly, most of us want to avoid online learning as we mostly aren't trained in it and have found it harder to do, more time consuming, less effective as well as more difficult yo access for some of our students (often the already disadvantaged ones).

I understand your frustration but unions aren't to blame for Department of Education ineptitude.

wirelessdude01 · 15-07-2020 11:54AM

rob316 wrote: »

They had some smug **** from a teachers union on primetime there last week, I wanted to smack him through the TV. He says our members work environment should be "covid safe". Its an essential service, why do you deserve to be covid safe when nurses are working in a dangerous environment, retail workers, emergency services etc etc.

The power we give to these unions is ridiculous. Can we expect extra school days next year for our kids they have lost? Can we ****, it'll be pay increases this lot will be looking for its members.

You do know that we just want the department to provide us with some guidelines and guidance so that we have the same ability to be/feel safe like other workers. Shops and the likes all have procedures and processes to limit things.

We are waiting in the Dept to step up to the plate. I keep hearing that individual schools should do X, Y and Z. Just shows the lack of understanding of how schools operate.

Drumpot · 15-07-2020 11:58AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Not scaremongering. I agree with you that we need to get kids back. It's disgraceful that we are putting American tourists ahead of their wellbeing. How do you think this is going to go? Really?
Have you ever caught a viral respiratory infection in summer? like a flu or a cold?
It's going to be a **** show unless we actually contain it.

Kids will be sad if they can't go back to school but they'll be even more sad if their kidneys don't work.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7295466/

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1283291803312160768?s=20

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks

I think the bottom line is that we just don’t know but it’s really concerning that there is no obvious efforts being made to find out the risks in schools:

The experiment will continue. Yet scientists lament that as before, it may not generate the details they crave about infection patterns and paths of transmission. “There just isn’t really a culture of research” in schools, Edwards says. Gathering data from schoolchildren comes with layers of complexity beyond those of traditional pediatric research. In addition to seeking consent from parents and children, it often requires buy-in from teachers and school administrators who are already overwhelmed by their new reality. Integrating research—the only sure way to gauge the success of their varied strategies—may be too much to ask.

If there was political will to actually find out if schools are ok it would of been done by now by somebody. Again, feels like they are taking “if we don’t know for sure, we can’t say for certain that schools are risky” kind of approach.

I would rather there be transparency and honesty around these things for children, parents and teachers. It’s immoral to allow such ambiguous based information “schools grand cause children don’t really spread” to continue. The message should be “we actually aren’t sure”, because that’s the unfiltered truth.

I can’t imagine another 12 months of no schools. Unless there’s a radical solution , I can’t see how schools Won’t Open in some form. But I’d rather be told the truth. Children are far less likely to get a bad dose. Children will benefit educational and emotionally more by being in school. This may be the best, most honest message our government can give and it might have to be good enough. I just hope they don’t lie to peddle a “schools are fine” narrative that will probably blow up in their faces and destroy their credibility and do savage damage to public’s trust in authorities.

morebabies · 15-07-2020 11:59AM

The Dept have basically said we need to wait until the end of July for their next announcement. I can understand the uncertainty as they wait to see how the easing of lockdown goes, but they should still provide immediate funding to add hand sanitisers to schools, and a series of plans - in case of nationwide spike in cases, in case of localised clusters, and also if cases remain as they are now. End of July leaves teachers with one month to prepare which is ridiculous.
And the silly thing is that an online curriculum is the one thing they said they definitely wouldn't be looking at doing at the last Oireachtas Committee meeting. Surely at least prepare it as a backup plan?

timmy_mallet · 15-07-2020 11:59AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

You do know that we just want the department to provide us with some guidelines and guidance so that we have the same ability to be/feel safe like other workers. Shops and the likes all have procedures and processes to limit things.

We are waiting in the Dept to step up to the plate. I keep hearing that individual schools should do X, Y and Z. Just shows the lack of understanding of how schools operate.

If this kind of 'waiting on' stuff went on in the private sector, all stakeholders involved would be laughed out of the place.

HerrKuehn · 15-07-2020 11:59AM

History Queen wrote: »

The unions aren't powerful.

Depends on your age. You need to judge their behavior/performance on the previous decade. ASTI's 30% pay claim around 2001. Joe O'Toole's famous “Benchmarking is just an ATM machine” quote. Younger teachers won't remember any of that. That decade is where a lot of animosity the public has for teachers unions stems from. For public sector workers the most divisive time was around 2011 I guess. For many others the previous "boom/bubble" decade was.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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