How will schools be able to go back in September?

...Ghost...

JustAThought wrote: »

snip
the only ones that don’t seem to have a clue are the teacher themselves - if this plague has show up anything it is the lazy and clueless and self entitled cohort of teachers who thinks the taxpayer owes them a living for signing in once or twice a day and copying and pasting exercise pages from a workbook to a virtual folder without putting in any actual teaching hours or work themselves - appalling..

You managed to paint all teachers with the same brush there. My OH is a teacher and her dedication to her work and keeping students on the ball while also co-managing our own kids and their school work were at times frustrating....because I couldn't get anything done.

No doubt that plenty of teachers (and other workers) took advantage of the lockdown. I don't know any of these personally....i'm not a teacher, I just married one. What I did see was that my kids were kept busy with school work. One of my kids was receiving skype calls from his SNA up until last week to check up on him and make sure he was doing work.

If your experience has been different with teachers, what you done about it, other than post here? If someone isn't doing their job, they need to be called out and asked why.

thomasdylan wrote: »

I don't think this was the case. Where I was the options were redeployment to lower risk areas or accommodation was sorted for the workers living with high risk people. This was on site and pretty grim. They were still expected to work.

I posted that with a degree of uncertainty. My SIL is a doc and I know she and her colleagues were given the option to not work and be paid their basic salary if they lived with a high risk person. Her husband is high risk and she chose to self isolate from the rest of the HH and she kept working.

average_runner wrote: »

This is not what we experienced as parents. Teachers were ringing our kids to have chats, did zoom calls, asked for homework to be sent in. Did games for them to.do at home.

This exactly.

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Very little has been expected of teachers over the last 4 months. Of the 6 months between March and September, you will have been in the class 2 weeks and 6 weeks "remote learning". The remote teaching in many cases consisted of sending on an email with a few worksheets. It was really on a best effort basis as well, so if you had no broadband or laptop, you pretty much didn't have to do anything. This whole situation has really shown up the education sector. I think teachers need to have a bit of perspective, you will be literally the last ones back to work properly.

My OH and her colleagues seem to want to get back to work in the classroom. Maybe they don't and it's all some sort of conspiracy to get more holidays?

If teachers are the last ones back to work, it's because each teacher will sit in a class of an average of 30 students. If one student is infected, they will spread it around the class and around the school. If teachers are being told they can't wear face masks, they are being put into a high risk environment and this is unacceptable. One of my kids has asthma and I damn well won't be OK if my OH is expected to return to work without protections being put in place. I don't expect everyone to walk around in plastic bubbles, but the current watering down of safety measures and lack of planning for schools is scandalous. Is it really too much to expect PPE in a classroom? Judging by some commentators, it is.

Pubs are the top priority it seems...."feck the teachers! The students will be grand sure."

caveat emptor

Really not sure how this will happen in September. It’s easy to open them but what’s the point if clusters emerge and they have to close. Teachers will get it worse. If infection rates tick up before September due to imported cases I don’t think I can send them in good conscience.

https://twitter.com/drzoehyde/status/1283005512720642048?s=21

Jinglejangle69

...Ghost... wrote: »

You managed to paint all teachers with the same brush there. My OH is a teacher and her dedication to her work and keeping students on the ball while also co-managing our own kids and their school work were at times frustrating....because I couldn't get anything done.

No doubt that plenty of teachers (and other workers) took advantage of the lockdown. I don't know any of these personally....i'm not a teacher, I just married one. What I did see was that my kids were kept busy with school work. One of my kids was receiving skype calls from his SNA up until last week to check up on him and make sure he was doing work.

If your experience has been different with teachers, what you done about it, other than post here? If someone isn't doing their job, they need to be called out and asked why.



I posted that with a degree of uncertainty. My SIL is a doc and I know she and her colleagues were given the option to not work and be paid their basic salary if they lived with a high risk person. Her husband is high risk and she chose to self isolate from the rest of the HH and she kept working.



This exactly.



My OH and her colleagues seem to want to get back to work in the classroom. Maybe they don't and it's all some sort of conspiracy to get more holidays?

If teachers are the last ones back to work, it's because each teacher will sit in a class of an average of 30 students. If one student is infected, they will spread it around the class and around the school. If teachers are being told they can't wear face masks, they are being put into a high risk environment and this is unacceptable. One of my kids has asthma and I damn well won't be OK if my OH is expected to return to work without protections being put in place. I don't expect everyone to walk around in plastic bubbles, but the current watering down of safety measures and lack of planning for schools is scandalous. Is it really too much to expect PPE in a classroom? Judging by some commentators, it is.

Pubs are the top priority it seems...."feck the teachers! The students will be grand sure."

Creches are back weeks with rooms full of kids.

arctictree

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Creches are back weeks with rooms full of kids.

Most creche workers don't get paid if they are not working. They have to go back.

Murple

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Creches are back weeks with rooms full of kids.

No crèche has 30 children in one room the size of most classrooms with just one adult. They have been arranged in pods with one adult and a set number of children and they don't mix with others.
I don't know of any creche that has several hundred children in one building.
Crèches are subject to strict rules regarding space, hygiene measures, facilities etc. These have been in existence long before Covid.
Crèches are open about 2 weeks at most. Not all have reopened and not all have reopened fully. Many are limiting their numbers and many parents have not started using the creche again.
But it's much more effective to say 'crèches are back weeks with rooms full of kids' isn't it.

Jinglejangle69

arctictree wrote: »

Most creche workers don't get paid if they are not working. They have to go back.

Exactly.

average_runner

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

What your saying might be true but it also doesn't make what I have said untrue. If schools don't open, teachers will work from home. As they have been doing. Whether that works or not, or whether the logistics in the home place work or not, it will still happen. And teachers will continue to do their job. At no point in all this have they not done their job.

I find it hard to listen to people saying we are not doing our job during lockdown. For me personally, the effort I put into my work with daily live classes, recorded videos, adapted resources, consistent corrections and correspondence. All whilst minding a kid. But yeah, we're lazy, don't want to work, etc.



I agree that these kids are at a disadvantage. We tried to help those who had no computer access by providing them with a tablet free of charge. I'd say about 0.5% or less of students where I work had no internet, we tried to cater for these by posting out material to their houses and making phone calls to parents. I understand this is not proper instruction but it was the best we could do in this situation.

I'd say around 4 of my students in total were non compliant during lockdown. The rest have been fantastic. Although it's just not the same or as effective as regular instruction.

I never said you didn't do your job, if you read my previous post I said some teachers were brilliant. But in the real world that form of learning was good for the last few months when most of the hard work was done by the kids.


Now starting a new year, some kids will be further behind than others, so the system used from March to June(which served its purpose) is not good enough for Sept to X. So if the answer is to do what we just did for March, I believe School should not restart at all. How your salary is handled, that is up to the government, not for me to say or fair for me to say and teachers have their bills to pay also.



Our neighbour is teacher and works in a less well off school community, she got back about 10% of the work she gave out. She tried her best, not her fault but some families cant or don't care. (Teachers know all about these type I am sure)

markodaly

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Very little has been expected of teachers over the last 4 months. Of the 6 months between March and September, you will have been in the class 2 weeks and 6 weeks "remote learning". The remote teaching in many cases consisted of sending on an email with a few worksheets. It was really on a best effort basis as well, so if you had no broadband or laptop, you pretty much didn't have to do anything. This whole situation has really shown up the education sector. I think teachers need to have a bit of perspective, you will be literally the last ones back to work properly.

Somewhat agree with the point in bold.
The education sector in Ireland is in for a rude awakening. Too many insiders, like the DoE, Teaching Council and the ever perpetual moaning Unions.
They are not able to think on their feet, react to a situation, solve problems and be practical.

Again, this is the Irish education system, who is supposed to be creating a workforce for the 21st century and they themselves cannot organise a piss up in a brewery.

wirelessdude01

markodaly wrote: »

Somewhat agree with the point in bold.
The education sector in Ireland is in for a rude awakening. Too many insiders, like the DoE, Teaching Council and the ever perpetual moaning Unions.
They are not able to think on their feet, react to a situation, solve problems and be practical.

Again, this is the Irish education system, who is supposed to be creating a workforce for the 21st century and they themselves cannot organise a piss up in a brewery.

Did someone in a union piss in your pint at some stage?

...Ghost...

arctictree wrote: »

Most creche workers don't get paid if they are not working. They have to go back.

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Exactly.

These kids don't get paid either unless they go to work, but at least this one was given some PPE. Our teachers are being asked to return to work with no PPE and reduced social distancing in a crowded room for several hours per day.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Did someone in a union piss in your pint at some stage?

In fairness the unions has pissed in everyone's pint, hence why our country is so screwed up

The Wordress

I would admit that our school was slow off the mark to get up and running. I think my school did an OK job, considering it's not exactly a modern IT hub as it is. I don't think all teachers and staff should be labelled with the same brush.

Our Cigire rang our principal early on and demanded to know what our school was doing to support our children which was fair enough. My principal had a good action plan after that.

I have 2 SNAs working with me in my room and I haven't heard a peep from them since March. I do think this is very wrong as they are still on the DES books.

I do think that the Department should hold teachers, principals and other staff accountable for the work they did during Covid. It is a way of weeding out the lazy timewasters who have no interest in their job and are only looking forward to their next payslip.

Yes, they are in the minority but they make the genuine hard workers jobs a lot harder. As above!!

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

In fairness the unions has pissed in everyone's pint, hence why our country is so screwed up

Nothing to do with school openings though at all.

is_that_so

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Nothing to do with school openings though at all.

They are what are known as stakeholders or vested interests if you prefer!

r93kaey5p2izun

When schools open fully I think parents are in for a land. In the past 2 days I have heard of 11 permanent teachers not going back to school in Sept, a few on leave and many retirements. 3 more going to retire in Oct when the 2% restoration comes through. Also 3 subs who have been so far unable to get accommodation in Dublin for August for DEIS summer camps and next term. Two refused due to possibility of working from home, one due to being a risk to the household (she had been living there for past two years - owner occupied). Three other subs deciding to stay at home as Dublin area rents too high and if lockdown happens they won't be able to afford it on Covid payment if that would be even still available. Principals reporting no applicants for some subject posts in Dublin.

Schools may open fully in Sept but children will be sent home due to lack of teachers. Lots of subjects going to have to be cut. I know 2 schools who had sent TYs home on several occasions last year due to shortages. Things looking even worse this year.

timmy_mallet

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

When schools open fully I think parents are in for a land. In the past 2 days I have heard of 11 permanent teachers not going back to school in Sept, a few on leave and many retirements. 3 more going to retire in Oct when the 2% restoration comes through. Also 3 subs who have been so far unable to get accommodation in Dublin for August for DEIS summer camps and next term. Two refused due to possibility of working from home, one due to being a risk to the household (she had been living there for past two years - owner occupied). Three other subs deciding to stay at home as Dublin area rents too high and if lockdown happens they won't be able to afford it on Covid payment if that would be even still available. Principals reporting no applicants for some subject posts in Dublin.

Schools may open fully in Sept but children will be sent home due to lack of teachers. Lots of subjects going to have to be cut. I know 2 schools who had sent TYs home on several occasions last year due to shortages. Things looking even worse this year.

The benefits of homeschooling becoming even more appealing day-by-day.

If the school goes similar, any distancing in the playground etc., for our 2, they will be homeschooled. Leaving their education in the hands of the state and their competing interests with nonsense like the above going in is foolish.

wirelessdude01

timmy_mallet wrote: »

The benefits of homeschooling becoming even more appealing day-by-day.

If the school goes similar, any distancing in the playground etc., for our 2, they will be homeschooled. Leaving their education in the hands of the state and their competing interests with nonsense like the above going in is foolish.

Take them out so and enjoy the time with them.

wirelessdude01

Accommodation for teachers is going to be a HUGE issue. People not willing to rent a room to them due to them not being protected with PPE at work and also the chance/probability that they will be working from home.

wirelessdude01

is_that_so wrote: »

They are what are known as stakeholders or vested interests if you prefer!

In name only as a stakeholder. If the unions had been listened to then the mess that was the LC predicted grading wouldn't have occured. Haven't yet met a second level teacher who agreed with it.

If the teaching unions are that powerful then how am I still an LPT? The unions narrative is dug up by people when it suits their arguments and ignored when it doesn't.

Bananaleaf

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Creches are back weeks with rooms full of kids.

Genuine question, I don't have kids.

Are there creches that have 1200 kids attending them in Ireland?

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Nothing to do with school openings though at all.

Was talking about all unions not just the teachers unions

is_that_so

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

In name only as a stakeholder. If the unions had been listened to then the mess that was the LC predicted grading wouldn't have occured. Haven't yet met a second level teacher who agreed with it.

If the teaching unions are that powerful then how am I still an LPT? The unions narrative is dug up by people when it suits their arguments and ignored when it doesn't.

Oh I think they are quite useless and have been for a long time but as an outside observer I fully agree on the LC, a dog's dinner of a solution.

thomasdylan

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

If the teaching unions are that powerful then how am I still an LPT? The unions narrative is dug up by people when it suits their arguments and ignored when it doesn't.

Isn't there a two tier pay scale for the entire PS, not just teachers?

c montgomery

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Genuine question, I don't have kids.

Are there creches that have 1200 kids attending them in Ireland?

I doubt it.

My better half works in one. The average in our area would be about 40-80 kids from 6 months to 5 years old.

One creche I know of has 250ish but that is a complete outlier. Mostly it deals with pre-school kids 3-5 year olds.

selectamatic

The Wordress wrote: »

I would admit that our school was slow off the mark to get up and running. I think my school did an OK job, considering it's not exactly a modern IT hub as it is. I don't think all teachers and staff should be labelled with the same brush.

Our Cigire rang our principal early on and demanded to know what our school was doing to support our children which was fair enough. My principal had a good action plan after that.

I have 2 SNAs working with me in my room and I haven't heard a peep from them since March. I do think this is very wrong as they are still on the DES books.

What exactly did you want the sna's to do? It was impossible for them to carry out their role of supporting the care needs of SEN children so them not being in contact in a professional sense shouldn't have been a surprise.

Don't forget they were being told via the media that they were going to be redeployed elsewhere anyways.

...Ghost...

selectamatic wrote: »

What exactly did you want the sna's to do? It was impossible for them to carry out their role of supporting the care needs of SEN children so them not being in contact in a professional sense shouldn't have been a surprise.

How so? My sons SNA was in regular contact by skype, 2-3 times per week for a good 20 or 30 minutes each time. I don't know what they were being told, but I know his SNA was in touch.

byhookorbycrook

Our SNAs have been absolutely super, supporting the children on their caseload all through . Like teachers , there may be some who took the pee but in my experience, very few .

The Wordress

selectamatic wrote: »

What exactly did you want the sna's to do? It was impossible for them to carry out their role of supporting the care needs of SEN children so them not being in contact in a professional sense shouldn't have been a surprise.

Don't forget they were being told via the media that they were going to be redeployed elsewhere anyways.

But SNAs were not ever redeployed and as a result should have been available to support the teacher and children when required. I already took this issue up with my principal but got my head chewed off. I will be bringing it up again in September because if there is another school closure, I don't want to be swamped with work to do to support my children while other staff members get a leisurely break :rolleyes:

JustAThought

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Our SNAs have been absolutely super, supporting the children on their caseload all through . Like teachers , there may be some who took the pee but in my experience, very few .

In the meantime primetime radio - RYE - facilitated by their legal department and hoardes of reaearcheds and fact checkers had a queue of hysterical mothers on the national airwaves complaining about their childrens special needs assistants and begging that they make any kind of input into their childrens lives as they had completely vanished.

The Wordress

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Our SNAs have been absolutely super, supporting the children on their caseload all through . Like teachers , there may be some who took the pee but in my experience, very few .

Can I ask you what did your SNAs do? I want some examples so that I go in armed to my principal in September.