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Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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    #8072
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    sid waddell wrote: »
    I am. I know most of Ireland is. Shouldn't we all be?

    I mean, what has fascism got to recommend it?

    What rationale could somebody have for not being anti-fascist?

    Everyone is anti fascist, which is why we don't vote for parties that propose greater government control in everyday life, controlling speech or join organisations that pull down statues, riot, aggressively impose their views on ordinary people trying to live their lives all they while pretending the organisation doesn't really exist.


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    #8073
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    sid waddell wrote: »
    I am. I know most of Ireland is. Shouldn't we all be?

    Got any proof that most of Ireland is Antifa?

    I get the feeling you don't really know much about Irish people...


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    #8074
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Wtf is the world coming to


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    #8075
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Am I against Fascism, yes of course. Also I am pro food and oxygen. I am also strongly opposed to communism.

    I like democracy.

    Am I in support of Antifa, no I am completely opposed to people who hold the hammer and sickle flag and support communism. As dangerous as facism.

    Its not really as simple as you are making out. Oh if you are against anti Fa then you are obviously a fascist.

    So first of all you said you're against fascism, but then you say you're completely opposed to anti-fascism.

    That makes no sense at all.


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    #8076
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Got any proof that most of Ireland is Antifa?

    I get the feeling you don't really know much about Irish people...

    Not seeing a whole lot of fascist parties out there. Like not one TD in government. So it would be fairly normal proposition to make that the vast majority of people in Ireland believe in democracy rather than facism.


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    #8077
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    Does OP understand the difference between antifa and being against facism?

    Antifa uses aggressive methods to spread their ideologies and tears down anyone with opposing views... Sounds familiar


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    #8078
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    sid waddell wrote: »
    So first of all you said you're against fascism, but then you say you're completely opposed to anti-fascism.

    That makes no sense at all.

    It makes complete sense. I completely oppose both fascism and communism.

    It's based on the history of Europe in the 20th century. Makes complete sense to me.

    I support democracy. Seems perfectly sensible


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    #8079
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Got any proof that most of Ireland is Antifa?

    I get the feeling you don't really know much about Irish people...
    A general election is the best way of ascertaining public opinion.

    Of our 160 TDs, how many are not antifa?

    Mattie McGrath, Verona Murphy, Noel Grealish and the Healy-Raes, perhaps?

    FF, FG (notwithstanding their history of course), SF, the Greens, Labour, the Social Democrats and the assorted left and most independents are anti-fascist.

    Or have you got evidence to the contrary?


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    #8080
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    sid waddell wrote: »
    A general election is the best way of ascertaining public opinion.

    Of our 160 TDs, how many are not antifa?

    Mattie McGrath, Verona Murphy, Noel Grealish and the Healy-Raes, perhaps?

    FF, FG (notwithstanding their history of course), SF, the Greens, Labour, the Social Democrats and the assorted left and most independents are anti-fascist.

    Or have you got evidence to the contrary?

    None of our TDs are members of Antifa.


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    #8081
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    GooglePlus wrote: »
    Does OP understand the difference between antifa and being against facism?

    Antifa uses aggressive methods to spread their ideologies and tears down anyone with opposing views... Sounds familiar

    You are either with us or against us, and if you are against us you are a facist.


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    #8082
    Poor_old_gill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    sid waddell wrote: »
    So you're antifa?

    People use Fascism as a catch all title for right wing authoritarianism but they neglect to deal with the, often aggressive, attempts at authoritarianism from the left also.

    I am anti both the aggressive attempts by the right & the left to impose their belief system upon me, I'm anti their attempts to control the narrative in the media, etc.

    So, yes I am anti-fascist but I am also anti-left wing students running around shouting about how they are standing up for the oppressed by having a march in Dublin, while then going home to their middle class house & consume American products & American tv while speaking in quasi American accents.

    Essentially I'm anti-idiot & anti-ar*ehole.


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    #8083
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Every time I hear about how antifa are the good guys, I'm reminded of a passage from George Orwell's book called Coming Up For Air.
    I saw the vision that he was seeing. And it wasn’t at all the kind of vision that can be talked about. What he’s saying is merely that Hitler’s after us and we must all get together and have a good hate. Doesn’t go into details. Leaves it all respectable. But what he’s seeing is something quite different. It’s a picture of himself smashing people’s faces in with a spanner. Fascist faces, of course. I know that’s what he was seeing. It was what I saw myself for the second or two that I was inside him. Smash! Right in the middle! The bones cave in like an eggshell and what was a face a minute ago is just a great big blob of strawberry jam. Smash! There goes another! That’s what’s in his mind, waking and sleeping, and the more he thinks of it the more he likes it. And it’s all O.K. because the smashed faces belong to Fascists. You could hear all that in the tone of his voice.
    https://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/prose/ComeingUpforAir/3_1.html


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    #8084
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    It makes complete sense. I completely oppose both fascism and communism.

    It's based on the history of Europe in the 20th century. Makes complete sense to me.

    You said you're against fascism and then said yo completely oppose anti-fascism.

    That makes zero sense.


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    #8085
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,553 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Being Anti-Fascist and pro Antifa (the group) are two completely separate propositions.


    100% agree.

    This is simplistic 'enemy of my enemy' stuff.


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    #8086
    Poor_old_gill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Am I against Fascism, yes of course. Also I am pro food and oxygen. I am also strongly opposed to communism.

    I like democracy.

    Am I in support of Antifa, no I am completely opposed to people who hold the hammer and sickle flag and support communism. As dangerous as facism.

    Its not really as simple as you are making out. Oh if you are against anti Fa then you are obviously a fascist.

    Very well put


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    #8087
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    sid waddell wrote: »
    A general election is the best way of ascertaining public opinion.

    Of our 160 TDs, how many are not antifa?

    Mattie McGrath, Verona Murphy, Noel Grealish and the Healy-Raes, perhaps?

    FF, FG (notwithstanding their history of course), SF, the Greens, Labour, the Social Democrats and the assorted left and most independents are anti-fascist.

    Or have you got evidence to the contrary?

    Antifa is a group, I think you're using it as a term for being anti fascist which is obviously where the word originated from but it is now used to refer to the political movement group.


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    #8088
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Not seeing a whole lot of fascist parties out there. Like not one TD in government. So it would be fairly normal proposition to make that the vast majority of people in Ireland believe in democracy rather than facism.

    So, which came first? The aversion to such ideologies, or Antifa?

    As for believing in democracy, that's another discussion altogether. What's up with all the associations, as if they prove anything?


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    #8089
    chosen1
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭chosen1


    The ANTIFA crowd you see at rallies and demonstrations are about as close to faciasts as you'll see in this country.

    Breaking up demos, violently opposing free speech are all traits of faciasts. The only thing that separates them is they tend to favour free migration between countries.

    Also just as opposed to other groups such as Pegida. Prefer to see democracy here myself.


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    #8090
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I agree with WP
    Yes, antifa is the moral equivalent of neo-Nazis
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-antifa-is-the-moral-equivalent-of-neo-nazis/2017/08/30/9a13b2f6-8d00-11e7-91d5-ab4e4bb76a3a_story.html


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    #8091
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Being Anti-Fascist and pro Antifa (the group) are two completely separate propositions.

    There is no group "Antifa", unless you mean that any people in close proximity constitutes a group, ie. a group of people in a pub, ie. the literal everyday version of the word?

    But there's no organisation called Antifa, if that's what you mean.

    There is only anti-fascism.

    If you are anti-fascism you are antifa. It's just an abbreviation.


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    #8092
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,553 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    sid waddell wrote: »
    There is no group "Antifa", unless you mean that any people in close proximity constitutes a group, ie. a group of people in a pub, ie. the literal everyday version of the word?

    But there's no organisation called Antifa, if that's what you mean.

    There is only anti-fascism.

    If you are anti-fascism you are antifa. It's just an abbreviation.
    You are embarrassing yourself to be honest.


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    #8093
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    biko wrote: »
    I agree with WP

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-antifa-is-the-moral-equivalent-of-neo-nazis/2017/08/30/9a13b2f6-8d00-11e7-91d5-ab4e4bb76a3a_story.html

    You tell us anti-fascism is equivalent to Nazism?

    Flesh that out, there.

    If anti-fascists are "equivalent to the Nazis", as you say, and Nazis are Nazis, what sort of people are not either Nazis or equivalent to the Nazis?

    Those who are not Nazis but tolerate Nazis?

    That seems a crazy opinion.


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    #8094
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    sid waddell wrote: »
    There is no group "Antifa", unless you mean that any people in close proximity constitutes a group, ie. a group of people in a pub, ie. the literal everyday version of the word?

    But there's no organisation called Antifa, if that's what you mean.

    There is only anti-fascism.

    If you are anti-fascism you are antifa. It's just an abbreviation.

    It is not an abbreviation. It is a collection of groups and a destructive movement. Don't tell me what I believe.


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    #8095
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    osarusan wrote: »
    You are embarrassing yourself to be honest.

    Nah, a lot of far right posters are embarrassed because their self-conscious grift is being exposed very easily for what it is.


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    #8096
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Fascists dress in black and go around telling people what to do, whereas priests...


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    #8097
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    joeguevara wrote: »
    It is not an abbreviation. It is a collection of groups and a destructive movement. Don't tell me what I believe.

    You're wrong. It is an abbreviation. Your belief is wrong.

    Everybody who is anti-fascist is antifa.

    The air of consternation and hurt feelings among a lot of posters in this thread is very funny.


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    #8098
    Poor_old_gill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    sid waddell wrote: »
    Nah, a lot of far right posters are embarrassed because their self-conscious grift is being exposed very easily for what it is.

    What you are finding is a lot of centrists who oppose right wing authoritarian movements and the equally authoritarian left wing movement who have, very cutely, named themselves anti-fa.

    It's phenomenally easy to comprehend, if only thats what you were here for


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    #8099
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    chosen1 wrote: »
    The ANTIFA crowd you see at rallies and demonstrations are about as close to faciasts as you'll see in this country.

    Breaking up demos, violently opposing free speech are all traits of faciasts. The only thing that separates them is they tend to favour free migration between countries.

    Also just as opposed to other groups such as Pegida. Prefer to see democracy here myself.

    Sure to use your rationale, everybody's a fascist, most of all most people, given that most people are anti-fascist.

    Maybe the fascists are are the real anti-fascists? Maybe that's what you're trying to say?


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    #8100
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    sid waddell wrote: »
    You're wrong. It is an abbreviation. Your belief is wrong.

    Everybody who is anti-fascist is antifa.

    The air of consternation and hurt feelings among a lot of posters in this thread is very funny.

    Nobody's feelings are hurt at all. Consternation at your lack of understanding of a simple concept would be more accurate.


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    #8101
    Clarence Boddiker
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Clarence Boddiker


    sid waddell wrote: »
    I am. I know most of Ireland is. Shouldn't we all be?

    I mean, what has fascism got to recommend it?

    What rationale could somebody have for not being anti-fascist?

    What is a Fascist?


This discussion has been closed.
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