Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

Mr. Karate

nullzero wrote: »

Antifa state they have no leadership to speak of, regardless of the country in which they operate.
Pat Corcoran was instrumental in organising Antifa in Ireland. Whether or not he is a "leader" with in Antifa is splitting hairs, the man was convicted of possession of 7000+ images of an "inappropriate nature" for want of a better term.
He is a paedophile and he is closely associated with the Irish branch of Antifa, who chose to (much to the delight of the organisers of yesterday's protest) turn up to drown out speeches which were aiming their venom at paedophiles.
I may not agree with the protestors on a lot of topics (John Connors being somebody I've never before found myself agreeing with for example) but on the issue of child abuse it's pretty difficult to get on the wrong side of that particular argument, the morality isn't relative to any political ideology, abusing kids is wrong and when your supposedly "right on" anti fascist group turns up to stop people protesting against the potential of paedophilia being on some abstract manner promoted (even unwittingly) by a member of the Irish government, arguing against that results in your group painting itself into a particularly unsavoury corner.

Should the Antifa protestors been assaulted? Of course not. Yet again we've seen why extremist political ideology struggles to take root in this country, both the far left and far right are morons, this protest featured a tiny crowd of people on either side, the only real losers in terms of optics were Antifa however, we already knew the others were what they were, now Antifa Ireland is an organisation that appears to any casual observers to have not only an association with a notable convicted paedophile but who as a group defend paedophilia. They should have stayed home and put their feet up.

You want to disrupt and shut down rallies because you don't want to hear their message under the laughable guise of "fighting fascism" [while acting like fascists] you deserve a few knots. I'm not going to feel sorry for these idiots because these thugs are always the first ones to throw punches. They're only upset that they didn't get to do it this time.

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

Antifa state they have no leadership to speak of, regardless of the country in which they operate.
Pat Corcoran was instrumental in organising Antifa in Ireland. Whether or not he is a "leader" with in Antifa is splitting hairs, the man was convicted of possession of 7000+ images of an "inappropriate nature" for want of a better term.
He is a paedophile and he is closely associated with the Irish branch of Antifa, who chose to (much to the delight of the organisers of yesterday's protest) turn up to drown out speeches which were aiming their venom at paedophiles.
I may not agree with the protestors on a lot of topics (John Connors being somebody I've never before found myself agreeing with for example) but on the issue of child abuse it's pretty difficult to get on the wrong side of that particular argument, the morality isn't relative to any political ideology, abusing kids is wrong and when your supposedly "right on" anti fascist group turns up to stop people protesting against the potential of paedophilia being on some abstract manner promoted (even unwittingly) by a member of the Irish government, arguing against that results in your group painting itself into a particularly unsavoury corner.

Should the Antifa protestors been assaulted? Of course not. Yet again we've seen why extremist political ideology struggles to take root in this country, both the far left and far right are morons, this protest featured a tiny crowd of people on either side, the only real losers in terms of optics were Antifa however, we already knew the others were what they were, now Antifa Ireland is an organisation that appears to any casual observers to have not only an association with a notable convicted paedophile but who as a group defend paedophilia. They should have stayed home and put their feet up.

I'm sure you can provide proof that he has something to do with the organization of antifa in Ireland.... Credible sources etc

Mr. Karate

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so it wasnt Justin barratt and his NP cronies then?

Regardless of political leanings we should be able to agree on this situation.

Mr. Karate

Overheal wrote: »

Oh it’s definitely sleazy but I would for sure put it in the class of ephebophilia and not pedophilia. Neither is particularly glamorous but let’s discern the several levels of hell.

Thanks. Pedophilia seems to have become a catch all term for sexual relationships with anyone under the age of consent. Probably because of the stigma attached to it.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

Let’s differentiate here: pedophilia is in regard to prepubescents, young children and even toddlers. Teenagers don’t fall into that category. The word applied there would be ephebophelia. Lowering the age of consent however into that range is normally only among teens in the same age group to eschew them of statutory rape issues, eg. 2 14 year olds who engage in inter course with each other consensually.

I saw the spectre of Ephebophilia being raised when the English footballer Adam Johnson was sentenced for engaging in inappropriate behaviour with a 15 year old girl a few years ago.

While this term is semantically correct, we are still talking about adults engaging in sexual activity with under age people.
Gary Glitter is known as a paedophile but semantically he should be considered a Ephebophile, the same would be true of Jimmy Savile (although he was interested in very young toddlers and corpses to boot also).

One thing we should agree on is the notion that adults shouldn't be fishing in these ponds, whatever about protecting against statutory rape type situations with teenagers who may fall on different sides of the age of consent in different jurisdictions, Ephebophilia is not something anyone should be comfortable with.

Tea drinker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they probably feel the same way about you.

They'd feel ...uncomfortable approaching a man and his young family?

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm sure you can provide proof that he has something to do with the organization of antifa in Ireland.... Credible sources etc

Credible sources like the official press wing of the purposefully "not in anyway organised" Antifa?

If I were an Antifa member and I was being linked with a convicted paedophile I would make it my business to publicly distance my organisation from them.

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

Credible sources like the official press wing of the purposefully "not in anyway organised" Antifa?

If I were an Antifa member and I was being linked with a convicted paedophile I would make it my business to publicly distance my organisation from them.

Okay, so you can't prove the claim? Grand job!

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Okay, so you can't prove the claim? Grand job!

So Antifa shouldn't publicly distance themselves from this man and perhaps not bother turning up to stop people having an anti paedophilia rally?

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

So Antifa shouldn't publicly distance themselves from this man and perhaps not bother turning up to stop people having an anti paedophilia rally?

How does an organisation with no organisational structure distance itself from a random man? In terms of the rally, it had fascists such as Justin Barrett organising it who has previously equated homosexuality and paedophilia so I'd say it's pretty fine to protest it. Barrett did take a prominent position in it. Then Hermann Kelly also wrote a book smearing a child sex abuse victim. Really, one can't help but feel questionable characters organised this rally...

These are all established facts versus your own unproven claim...

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

Oh it’s definitely sleazy but I would for sure put it in the class of ephebophilia and not pedophilia. Neither is particularly glamorous but let’s discern the several levels of hell.

Christ above.

When do you think they are fair game?

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

Christ above.

When do you think they are fair game?

Your question feel free to lead with an answer of your own. I’m not the ball here. I’m not even sure why you’re attacking me.

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How does an organisation with no organisational structure distance itself from a random man? In terms of the rally, it had fascists such as Justin Barrett organising it who has previously equated homosexuality and paedophilia so I'd say it's pretty fine to protest it. Barrett did take a prominent position in it. Then Hermann Kelly also wrote a book smearing a child sex abuse victim. Really, one can't help but feel questionable characters organised this rally...

These are all established facts versus your own unproven claim...

I don't give a flip what a clown like Barrett says about anything. I never defended him or his ilk in any way shape or form.

My question is, why Antifa could not, over the course of 7 years and counting not distance themselves from Pat Corcoran?

The same lack or organisation that prevents anyone from proving his involvement with Antifa, in your opinion gives them a pass when it comes to distancing themselves from a convicted paedophile, whilst concurrently protesting against a rally against paedophilia.

I'm sorry but some clarification is needed if Antifa Ireland are to been taken seriously going forward. If they can organise countless protests, and post incessantly online, surely a couple of sentences distancing themselves from this man is not outside the realms of possibility.

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

I don't give a flip what a clown like Barrett says about anything. I never defended him or his ilk in any way shape or form.

My question is, why Antifa could not, over the course of 7 years and counting not distance themselves from Pat Corcoran?

The same lack or organisation that prevents anyone from proving his involvement with Antifa, in your opinion gives them a pass when it comes to distancing themselves from a convicted paedophile, whilst concurrently protesting against a rally against paedophilia.

I'm sorry but some clarification is needed if Antifa Ireland are to been taken seriously going forward. If they can organise countless protests, and post incessantly online, surely a couple of sentences distancing themselves from this man is not outside the realms of possibility.

Who exactly would go out to represent a group that has no organisational structure? Barrett and Kelly are pretty relevant since they're the two major organisers to the rally you're annoyed people protested against... They can pretend it's about paedophilia but it seems the entire motivation for it was taking a jab against Roderic O'Gorman who has nothing to do with paedophilia... So more like homophobes going after a gay minister. (the Tatchell photo is a tenuous reason for it)

Can you point me to the group present doing any protests for child protection safeguards etc prior to this? Any? Kelly actively used a book to attack a victim. Barrett only ever discussed the issue to engage in homophobia.

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

Who exactly would go out to represent a group that has no organisational structure? Barrett and Kelly are pretty relevant since they're the two major organisers to the rally you're annoyed people protested against... They can pretend it's about paedophilia but it seems the entire motivation for it was taking a jab against Roderic O'Gorman who has nothing to do with paedophilia... So more like homophobes going after a gay minister. (the Tatchell photo is a tenuous reason for it)

Can you point me to the group present doing any protests for child protection safeguards etc prior to this? Any? Kelly actively used a book to attack a victim. Barrett only ever discussed the issue to engage in homophobia.

The idea that a TD can be beyond reproach because of his sexuality is dangerous.

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

The idea that a TD can be beyond reproach because of his sexuality is dangerous.

The entire motivation for the protest was a tenuous link. That's it. Meanwhile the organisers of the protest have pretty warped backgrounds around child sexual abuse. One writing a book to attack a victim. Another blaming gay people for church sexual abuse....

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who exactly would go out to represent a group that has no organisational structure? Barrett and Kelly are pretty relevant since they're the two major organisers to the rally you're annoyed people protested against... They can pretend it's about paedophilia but it seems the entire motivation for it was taking a jab against Roderic O'Gorman who has nothing to do with paedophilia... So more like homophobes going after a gay minister. (the Tatchell photo is a tenuous reason for it)

Can you point me to the group present doing any protests for child protection safeguards etc prior to this? Any? Kelly actively used a book to attack a victim. Barrett only ever discussed the issue to engage in homophobia.

I already stated that both sides made fools of themselves. The optics are that Antifa protested against an anti paedophilia rally.

You're falling over yourself to defend Antifa, I'm not defending anyone here.
Antifa are a bunch of scumbags, much like the scumbags on the other end of the spectrum, I'm merely pointing out how bad this situation made Antifa look, they really should have avoided the protest, but they took the bait Hook line and sinker.

If you want to defend a bunch of clowns like Antifa that's your business, but don't expect to not have the multitude of problems with Antifa being pointed out.

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

I already stated that both sides made fools of themselves. The optics are that Antifa protested against an anti paedophilia rally.

You're falling over yourself to defend Antifa, I'm not defending anyone here.
Antifa are a bunch of scumbags, much like the scumbags on the other end of the spectrum, I'm merely pointing out how bad this situation made Antifa look, they really should have avoided the protest, but they took the bait Hook line and sinker.

If you want to defend a bunch of clowns like Antifa that's your business, but don't expect to not have the multitude of problems with Antifa being pointed out.

You made a claim, I asked you to provide proof. Pretty simple really... You also attempted to downplay the personalities who arranged the rally.

James Brown

Sweetemotion wrote: »

If you think people attending an anti peado rally are far right.


What does that say about you?

That's the con. They'll support the church without question though right?

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You made a claim, I asked you to provide proof. Pretty simple really... You also attempted to downplay the personalities who arranged the rally.

Downplay? I openly insulted them. I did that in the post you just quoted. Don't let facts get in the way of you taking the moral high ground(same goes for those thanking your post, they obviously weren't reading very carefully either).

It's impossible to provide proof of Pat Corcoran's involvement in an organisation that doesn't disclose its membership. As I already pointed out this suits you in other ways.

Bonniedog

Deleted User wrote: »

an organisation with no organisational structure ..

AFA Ireland was founded in late 80s or early 90s. It has had a continuous existence and several of same characters like Perrys and Glennon are still involved. Historian Brian Hanley was a member. Not sure if founding member the child porn addict Corcoran is still a member. Obviously they would have no moral objections to the scumbag.

Do they just materialise in same places through some mystic event?

Interestingly, it was offshoot of Red Action an SWP split and they tried to get close to Dublin IRA who spurned them on security grounds. Would have been close to IRSP/INLA in sort of fanboy relationship and used to tell the Brit AFA lots of made up stuff about how they were taking on the "fash" in Dublin.

One of their most famous victories was during I think the 2002 general election when they grabbed some election leaflets from an immigration control candidate and threw them into gardens. It occupies a sort of Battle of Madrid status among them :-)

They are a joke.

Mr. Karate

Sweetemotion wrote: »

The idea that a TD can be beyond reproach because of his sexuality is dangerous.

This is the problem with the Left's Identity Politics. They think being LGBT, Person of Color, Muslim, etc should make you above reproach and above criticism.

All O'Gorman had to do was come and say he condemns Pedophilia. Instead he hid behind being gay and tried to deflect criticism as just homophobia. All he did was support the idea he supports pedophilia and reinforce the "Gays are pedophiles" stereotype.

Chris_Heilong

Mr. Karate wrote: »

This is the problem with the Left's Identity Politics. They think being LGBT, Person of Color, Muslim, etc should make you above reproach and above criticism.

All O'Gorman had to do was come and say he condemns Pedophilia. Instead he hid behind being gay and tried to deflect criticism as just homophobia. All he did was support the idea he supports pedophilia and reinforce the "Gays are pedophiles" stereotype.

I hear them use the term on UK news 'Protected Class'....what the hell? shouldn't every one be treated the same? If it is one rule for you and another for me it breaks society.

Mr. Karate

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I hear them use the term on UK news 'Protected Class'....what the hell? shouldn't every one be treated the same? If it is one rule for you and another for me it breaks society.

Everybody should be treated the same. These so called equal rights don't want equal rights they want preferred rights. They want to be above everybody else. And then they wonder why hostilities are rising in the West.

excludedbin

But everybody isn't treated the same, are they? Some groups of people are targeted for who they are. The point of such laws is that being targeted for immutable characteristics has a chilling effect on people with those characteristics, it intimidates others into hiding who they are. Not wanting to live in fear isn't wanting to be "above everybody else", it's just wanting to be treated the same as everybody else and the laws reflect that. But only when it's minority groups do the usual types kick and scream about it.

ExMachina1000

How do I join Antifa? The Irish branch. Is there a phone number?

James Brown

Mr. Karate wrote: »

This is the problem with the Left's Identity Politics. They think being LGBT, Person of Color, Muslim, etc should make you above reproach and above criticism.

All O'Gorman had to do was come and say he condemns Pedophilia. Instead he hid behind being gay and tried to deflect criticism as just homophobia. All he did was support the idea he supports pedophilia and reinforce the "Gays are pedophiles" stereotype.

The idea that you and others seem to think these are agenda driven organisations and not people wouldn't be part of your problem would it?
All the gays don't get together to discuss their next move toward world domination.
People are targeted for being different. The idea is ensuring they are not.

FYI: only right wing loons pay heed to such a stereotype. The #marchforinnocence was using it to drum up publicity and support.

spoonerhead

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Everybody should be treated the same. These so called equal rights don't want equal rights they want preferred rights. They want to be above everybody else. And then they wonder why hostilities are rising in the West.

Nonsense, please use accurate evidence before making sweeping statements. LGBT people have been oppressed for centuries with the same RW groups spreading fear and lies. Also, you mention Hostility’s are ‘rising’, what makes you think they ever went away? Have you seen a certain group up north today celebrating that very thing, they’ve been going for over one hundred years.

Chris_Heilong

spoonerhead wrote: »

Nonsense, please use accurate evidence before making sweeping statements. LGBT people have been oppressed for centuries with the same RW groups spreading fear and lies. Also, you mention Hostility’s are ‘rising’, what makes you think they ever went away? Have you seen a certain group up north today celebrating that very thing, they’ve been going for over one hundred years.

They are protected under the law in the same way everyone else is, that is fair. However groups no matter who you are need to behave to the standard of the society they live in and not the other way around.

1800_Ladladlad

They are very brave in mobs

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1282591083705376769

But we all know what they're like on their own.



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