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Mass exodus to Dairying !!!

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    #62
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    For a farm at that scale dependant on existing debt and other facilities needed it would be doable but there would have to be tangible labour savings. Place locally has gone from 3 people milking for 3 hours to 2 milking for 2 hours, that's close on 10 hours a day saved, even over 300 days at 15 euro an hour that 45k saved in the year on labour alone


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    #63
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    Ireland of 40 shades of green is gone and replaced with Ireland of 2 shades of green. Heavily fertilised ungrazed paddocks and lighter grazed paddocks.


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    #64
    Bullocks
    Registered Users Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    20silkcut wrote: »
    Personality type is a factor too. I reckon dairy farming is more suited to a person happy in their own company and not too bothered about what happens outside the farm gate.

    I reckon a more gregarious outgoing person would find it tough going after a few years especially in a one man set up.
    If I was to go back milking just having my own company would be a huge bonus.
    Cows are way easier talk to than some of the dicks walking this earth these days!


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    #65
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Mooooo wrote: »
    For a farm at that scale dependant on existing debt and other facilities needed it would be doable but there would have to be tangible labour savings. Place locally has gone from 3 people milking for 3 hours to 2 milking for 2 hours, that's close on 10 hours a day saved, even over 300 days at 15 euro an hour that 45k saved in the year on labour alone

    In terms of justifying a roatary you need to be up over 350 plus cows, a well set up 24 unit herringbone parlour with one person will do 160 cows a hour, while your 50 unit rotary will do 250 a hour at peak milk....
    Running costs on rotary parlours are eye watering compared to herringbone, your looking at well over double, never liked millking in rotary parlours alot of extra washing up compared to a herringbone and problem cows like twitchy heifers our a cow with mastitis are a nightmare in a one person rotary as you cant really re attach clusters if they are kicked of and you wont spot that cow thats flagged in one quater after been milked out, the fact the majority of cows in america are millked through big double up parlours versus rotaries tells its own story


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    #66
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,887 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    David Hay wrote: »
    How many hours would a dairy farmer work in an average week in

    Spring 67hrs
    Summer 49
    Autumn 45
    And winter 35 ?
    Just guessing now that's excluding inside having the dinner and trips to town etc


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    #67
    kerryjack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    Just guessing now that's excluding inside having the dinner and trips to town etc
    I have seen lads with 20 cows working 80 hours a week well he would have the wellies on for 80 hours anyway and I know of one 100 cow and I would say he works less than 40 hours


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    carrollsno1 wrote: »
    Horses for courses i suppose. Ive put a big emphasis on time off since i went travelling as i hadnt really known much about it previously some lads say im gone lazy the same lads never got up before 6am in their lives, but i just cant see how you could be expected to be tied to a place every day of the year for minimal return it basically slavery.

    With dry stock you aren’t really tied to the place though to the same extend as with dairy. There are busy times around calving (or when bucket feeding in calf to beef) and silage etc but aside from the it’s your routine stuff like dosing etc and then the general work around the farm, maintenance etc and that sort of stuff can be left to one side no problem for week or two. Taking holidays or a weekend off etc would never be an issue for most of the people I’d know part time farming sucklers or other non-dairy system or sheep.

    Even times I was working away the father would take two weeks off no bother all is needed is a neighbor, friend or relation to have a quick look at stock even every second day and maybe move a fence or open a gate into another field once or twice depending how long you are gone (assuming your are holidaying during a quiet time). A weekend away you would hardly even need someone once it’s not at a busy time, stock would be alright from Friday evening to Sunday evening if you have good fences etc.

    There is even a lad living near us who has about 50 acres well stocked but is living over an hour away for work, rarely ever comes near the place during the week and just has a neighbour beside him check the stock once a day when doing his own herding. Does all the bits and pieces then that need doing on Saturday and takes a few weeks off in the summer for silage etc.

    Look if a person has no interested that’s a different thing but for those who have the interest it doesn’t have to mean your life being totally taken over with it.


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    #69
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Bullocks wrote: »
    If I was to go back milking just having my own company would be a huge bonus.
    Cows are way easier talk to than some of the dicks walking this earth these days!

    That’s part of the reason I’m thinking about it too - I’m happy *not* making small talk with co-workers at the off-farm job or the local merchants/mart either.

    Related question: is there less to-ing and fro-ing in dairy? Your feed and fertiliser are delivered and your milk is collected. And the animals are more consistent, less culling, etc. Whereas with lamb and beef, you have to phone butchers or the factory to fight over price, then draw the animals there, or to the mart as plan-b, and maybe organise meal/fertiliser on the way home depending on how many you have left to sell now.

    Horses for courses as someone said, and some people might enjoy the buying/selling/deals side of things, but is dairy a little more “settled” in that regard?

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #70
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    David Hay wrote: »
    How many hours would a dairy farmer work in an average week in

    Spring
    Summer
    Autumn
    And winter ?

    Feb to june.
    630to 10 6 days a week -3 meals and abit of yarning you could say 11 hours easy.sunday in the spring is us3 630 to lunch time -breakfast and maybe.3.hrs for evening milking so 9 hrs would be a fair stab at it.
    July to October
    Less pressure so there s more early finishes 7 to 8 and would do a good bit of tooing and fooing during week.sunday is 5 mostly except for maybe silage/harvesting.so id say 10 hrs for 5 days and an 8 and 5 for Saturday and Sunday.
    November to January 7 to maybe 6 or 7 minus 2 meals.saturday/sunday im game ball to go to anything with just the basics done so maybe7 to 8 hrs but if there's nothing on im working.even though that period is quiet,you hav e.acouple busy weeks when you are pting animals/drying off or brfore calving.
    So 75 +for spring
    60 odd for summer autumn
    Winter maybe 50
    200 livestock units coming to the end of a development phase with lowish enough contractor input


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    #71
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    K.G. wrote: »
    Feb to june.
    630to 10 6 days a week -3 meals and abit of yarning you could say 11 hours easy.sunday in the spring is us3 630 to lunch time -breakfast and maybe.3.hrs for evening milking so 9 hrs would be a fair stab at it.
    July to October
    Less pressure so there s more early finishes 7 to 8 and would do a good bit of tooing and fooing during week.sunday is 5 mostly except for maybe silage/harvesting.so id say 10 hrs for 5 days and an 8 and 5 for Saturday and Sunday.
    November to January 7 to maybe 6 or 7 minus 2 meals.saturday/sunday im game ball to go to anything with just the basics done so maybe7 to 8 hrs but if there's nothing on im working.even though that period is quiet,you hav e.acouple busy weeks when you are pting animals/drying off or brfore calving.
    So 75 +for spring
    60 odd for summer autumn
    Winter maybe 50
    200 livestock units coming to the end of a development phase with lowish enough contractor input
    Those are crazy hours.


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    #72
    David Hay
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭David Hay


    K.G. wrote: »
    Feb to june.
    630to 10 6 days a week -3 meals and abit of yarning you could say 11 hours easy.sunday in the spring is us3 630 to lunch time -breakfast and maybe.3.hrs for evening milking so 9 hrs would be a fair stab at it.
    July to October
    Less pressure so there s more early finishes 7 to 8 and would do a good bit of tooing and fooing during week.sunday is 5 mostly except for maybe silage/harvesting.so id say 10 hrs for 5 days and an 8 and 5 for Saturday and Sunday.
    November to January 7 to maybe 6 or 7 minus 2 meals.saturday/sunday im game ball to go to anything with just the basics done so maybe7 to 8 hrs but if there's nothing on im working.even though that period is quiet,you hav e.acouple busy weeks when you are pting animals/drying off or brfore calving.
    So 75 +for spring
    60 odd for summer autumn
    Winter maybe 50
    200 livestock units coming to the end of a development phase with lowish enough contractor input


    Fair hours, after all expenses you would surly want to have 50 - 65 K for yourself, would that be possible ?


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    #73
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    I work to live. Not live to work.


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    #74
    awaywithyou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭awaywithyou


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    In terms of justifying a roatary you need to be up over 350 plus cows, a well set up 24 unit herringbone parlour with one person will do 160 cows a hour, while your 50 unit rotary will do 250 a hour at peak milk....
    Running costs on rotary parlours are eye watering compared to herringbone, your looking at well over double, never liked millking in rotary parlours alot of extra washing up compared to a herringbone and problem cows like twitchy heifers our a cow with mastitis are a nightmare in a one person rotary as you cant really re attach clusters if they are kicked of and you wont spot that cow thats flagged in one quater after been milked out, the fact the majority of cows in america are millked through big double up parlours versus rotaries tells its own story


    rotary here with 5yrs..... u might give me a run down on these eye watering running costs compared with a 24unit double up.....


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    #75
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    Ardlea limousine herd is goin to be replaced with 600 dairy herd. Huge rotary goin in at the minute. Property developer with too much money.


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    #76
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    David Hay wrote: »
    Fair hours, after all expenses you would surly want to have 50 - 65 K for yourself, would that be possible ?

    In wealth terms it would be more than that but in wage terms we only take what we need for tax reasons. By wealth i mean increased livestock value and various assets and equity increasing in land value as loan in paid down.developing a a farm takes alot of work or borrowings and in our case borrowing was reserved for land purchase


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    #77
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Gods Gift wrote: »
    I work to live. Not live to work.

    As they say in father. Ted..maybe i like work


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    #78
    farisfat
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭farisfat


    Gods Gift wrote: »
    Ardlea limousine herd is goin to be replaced with 600 dairy herd. Huge rotary goin in at the minute. Property developer with too much money.

    It's great to see him spending his money locally and creating employment.
    He could spent it on holiday homes and boats in Spain and have alot less hassle.


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    #79
    cosatron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭cosatron


    Gods Gift wrote: »
    I work to live. Not live to work.

    What allot of lads don’t understand is dairy farming is a way of life and if you don’t enjoy everything involved with dairy farming, your wasting your time


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    #80
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Gods Gift wrote: »
    Ardlea limousine herd is goin to be replaced with 600 dairy herd. Huge rotary goin in at the minute. Property developer with too much money.

    This was one of the farms I had in mind when I started this thread. I had heard the same but didn't know if it was true. Their farm manager will find it a big change. He is a serious cattle man and a renowned judge for limousin shows both here and in the UK.

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



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    #81
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    farisfat wrote: »
    It's great to see him spending his money locally and creating employment.
    He could spent it on holiday homes and boats in Spain and have alot less hassle.

    Yeah putting any land that comes on the market locally out of the reach of the genuine full time farmers. Putting pressure on lads to sell. He could move back here from the Isle of Man and pay his taxes here.


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    #82
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,064 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Gods Gift wrote: »
    Yeah putting any land that comes on the market locally out of the reach of the genuine full time farmers. Putting pressure on lads to sell. He could move back here from the Isle of Man and pay his taxes here.

    No more than the small shops, the days of the small full time farms are limited.
    Survival of the fittest, eh


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    #83
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    awaywithyou wrote: »
    rotary here with 5yrs..... u might give me a run down on these eye watering running costs compared with a 24unit double up.....

    How do you find it? Is it a one man operation? How many per hour would you put thru it comfortably. Double ups would have similar number of clusters so the only extra maintenance would be the platform and perhaps retaining bars?
    No experience bar seeing them in farms I've visited but I think they are a great bit of kit. Unfortunately in a lot of cases the parlour which saves the most time tends to be the last piece of the jigsaw rather than the first but that's the way it works, cow's and everthing else have to be in place first
    20 to 24 or 26 unit swing over would prob be as much as one man could do in a parlour and they would require a few extras at that as well, going above that would need a second person milking and it's at that point I think a rotary becomes a more serious option. Also with the money involved in robots anyone considering 3 robots the price point comes close to rotary money as well.
    Local fabricator was telling me of a man apparently with around the 180/ 190 cows who was considering robots till he milked in a few rotaries and has now put a rotary himself, enjoys milking and sees it as way to continue doing it without racing up and down a pit or spending 3 hours at it. Late 50's I think
    Can't compare to others countries where labour is much cheaper really, if it saves time everyday a figure has to be put on that


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    #84
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    wrangler wrote: »
    No more than the small shops, the days of the small full time farms are limited.
    Survival of the fittest, eh

    Small shops started disappearing when the likes of Tesco moved in. No coincidence that prices dropped in parallel. But not sure how we could reverse such “globalisation” at this stage.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #85
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,887 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    At the moment I'm milking a good few cows, contract dearer has calves. I have heifers and milkers. Doing a good bit of work at the house atm so not much on farm. Most days would be 6:15- 11:00 3-6
    Sunday help herself abit more so 6:00 to 9:00 and 3:30-6
    Minus half an hour 40 mins for breakfast each day. I'm at around 48hours of work, weeks at silage or other things might stretch it more


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    #86
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,064 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Siamsa Sessions wrote: »
    Small shops started disappearing when the likes of Tesco moved in. No coincidence that prices dropped in parallel. But not sure how we could reverse such “globalisation” at this stage.

    A friend that owns a small shop tells me that already those that shopped from him during the lockdown have already gone back to the tescos etc, some of these are the farmers that are ranting about the demise of rural Ireland yet they shop in the multinationals.


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    #87
    LawBoy2018
    Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    What's the veal market like atm? Do most dairy farmers raise their bull calves these days or do they send them off as live exports? My dad has about 50 acres of land that he hasn't done much with over the last few years. Is beef farming more ethical?


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    #88
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    awaywithyou wrote: »
    rotary here with 5yrs..... u might give me a run down on these eye watering running costs compared with a 24unit double up.....

    Was comparing to a 24 unit swing-over, biggest issue ive come accross is electrics frying themselves after a few years, on most makes of rotary your electronics are alot more exposed to damp and water from washing then a herringbone, have milked on two different farms where the acr boxes/plusator units had to be replaced after 6 years, one farm didnt actually replace them, they just installed bog standard delavel clusters and put someone at cups off manually detaching, depending on make retention bars give trouble too after awhile....
    Another massive drawback is the huge amounts of teat-spray the automatic spraying systems use, one new entrant locally went about "trying to fix his one" pulling it asunder as he didnt believe the parlour tech that it wasnt leaking and that was the usage rate...
    Depending on make again platform motors/ bearings can and do give trouble, good dealer backup and parts in stock on the shelf would be my biggest worry if i had a rotary in


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    #89
    BloodyBill
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭BloodyBill


    My brother and 2 uncles on 3 separate farms have gone into dairying from Suckling and haven't looked back. There is major issues if the Chinese and Russians get their 10,000 head dairying businesses up and running. The powder babymilk business is what keeps Ireland ahead of the game...so far anyway. You still need
    100 cows to have a good standard of living and if your farming mediocre land its harder again. If you've bad land ,dairying is not for you


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    #90
    BloodyBill
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭BloodyBill


    Heres a list by county of dairying..Cork huge amount out in front..then Tipperary ,Limerick, Kerry..


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    #91
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,640 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    BloodyBill wrote: »
    My brother and 2 uncles on 3 separate farms have gone into dairying from Suckling and haven't looked back. There is major issues if the Chinese and Russians get their 10,000 head dairying businesses up and running. The powder babymilk business is what keeps Ireland ahead of the game...so far anyway. You still need
    100 cows to have a good standard of living and if your farming mediocre land its harder again. If you've bad land ,dairying is not for you

    Something in last weeks farming press about Chinese buyers behind record prices in the UK for top Dairy sires.


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