Mass exodus to Dairying !!!

Wildsurfer

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It grand as long as it works for him. However we have been down this road with deer, Ostrich, Llamas and buffalo. It great if you get in early and make money from producing breeding stock as well. But lots of lads lost there shirts following the next fad that came along

You must have great fencing on your farm...

BloodyBill

Wildsurfer wrote: »

You must have great fencing on your farm...

All he's missing is 40 red kangaroos and a fenced in pond of crocodiles and he'd have the red meat sector cornered

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

Don't know anything about them, but he's one of the top drystock farmers around here and used to supply Pettits with limousin cattle in the past.
So he won't do anything stupid

Supplying Pettits doesn't make you the bees knees. I supply heifers to them every year and by jaysus I am making no fortune out of beef.

Welding Rod

Farming is like investing in the stock market. It’s not timing the market that makes a return. It’s time in the market.
Staying with your enterprise be it milk, beef or sheep, and getting technically better over time and with experience, is surely better than trying to time the market, and swinging from one system to the other, chasing the holy grail.
All these enterprise have good, bad, and indifferent years, on market price level. Real good farmers, make real good returns on good market prices, make enough on bad prices, and do ok on indifferent years. Over time it’s ok financially. Lifestyle, that’s up to yourself.

Bass Reeves

Wildsurfer wrote: »

You must have great fencing on your farm...

Never went down any of them roads but a lot of lads lost money on the deer when it first started 30 years ago.

Bass Reeves

Wildsurfer wrote: »

You must have great fencing on your farm...

Never went down any of them roads but a lot of lads lost money on the deer when it first started 30 years ago.

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

Supplying Pettits doesn't make you the bees knees. I supply heifers to them every year and by jaysus I am making no fortune out of beef.

I got the impression from other suppliers that you wouldn't be supplying half bred friesians to Pettits. .

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

I got the impression from other suppliers that you wouldn't be supplying half bred friesians to Pettits. .

I am a suckler farmer all my farming life until conversion to dairy this year. Still run 50 sucklers on an outfarm.

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

I am a suckler farmer all my farming life until conversion to dairy this year. Still run 50 sucklers on an outfarm.

Well you know then that they don't buy rubbish cattle.

richie123

Welding Rod wrote: »

Farming is like investing in the stock market. It’s not timing the market that makes a return. It’s time in the market.
Staying with your enterprise be it milk, beef or sheep, and getting technically better over time and with experience, is surely better than trying to time the market, and swinging from one system to the other, chasing the holy grail.
All these enterprise have good, bad, and indifferent years, on market price level. Real good farmers, make real good returns on good market prices, make enough on bad prices, and do ok on indifferent years. Over time it’s ok financially. Lifestyle, that’s up to yourself.

That's not true and the facts don't back you up.
Beef has been mostly a disaster for the last 30 year.without a doubt it's the poorest performing sector in farming.
Dairy has had two poor years in the last 30
And even at that a bad year in dairy was still better profitwise(2018 a good case in point) to a good year in tillage or suckling/beef.

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

Well you know then that they don't buy rubbish cattle.

They buy good cattle. That bracket of cattle below export quality.

kevthegaff

richie123 wrote: »

That's not true and the facts don't back you up.
Beef has been mostly a disaster for the last 30 year.without a doubt it's the poorest performing sector in farming.
Dairy has had two poor years in the last 30
And even at that a bad year in dairy was still better profitwise(2018 a good case in point) to a good year in tillage or suckling/beef.

There was a super year in the early noughties, where u were rewarded twenty fold on whatever type of animal regardless of quality. That year even dairy farming will never thwart

cosatron

richie123 wrote: »

That's not true and the facts don't back you up.
Beef has been mostly a disaster for the last 30 year.without a doubt it's the poorest performing sector in farming.
Dairy has had two poor years in the last 30
And even at that a bad year in dairy was still better profitwise(2018 a good case in point) to a good year in tillage or suckling/beef.

im calling bullsh*t on this Richie, up to 2 years ago beef farming has being good to efficient farmers, like even 3 or 4 years ago you were getting 4.20 a kg for r grade cattle. even today if a good 9 month Charolais comes in the ring up at our local mart, his still commanding 1000 minimum.

Siamsa Sessions

richie123 wrote: »

That's not true and the facts don't back you up.
Beef has been mostly a disaster for the last 30 year.without a doubt it's the poorest performing sector in farming.
Dairy has had two poor years in the last 30
And even at that a bad year in dairy was still better profitwise(2018 a good case in point) to a good year in tillage or suckling/beef.

I was thinking the same. I'm not a disciple of Teagasc by any stretch, but they publish an annual report on the profitability of all sectors and dairy has been out in front for years.

It's not all about money, and I don't think people should switch enterprises willy-nilly to chase rising markets, but that's not the same as saying every sector balances out and makes money in the long run.

mahoney_j

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I was thinking the same. I'm not a disciple of Teagasc by any stretch, but they publish an annual report on the profitability of all sectors and dairy has been out in front for years.

It's not all about money, and I don't think people should switch enterprises willy-nilly to chase rising markets, but that's not the same as saying every sector balances out and makes money in the long run.

Dairy may be out in front but the powers that be in tegasc see no issue in throwing out what should be confidental info that’s false and missing lots of figures like been paid for our time,capital repayements in loans etc etc etc we owe a lot to tegasc but there’s a lot of seriously flawed /biased stuff comming out and in dairying anyway there’s one way of doing things ....anything different ideas and info are in short supply

Siamsa Sessions

mahoney_j wrote: »

Dairy may be out in front but the powers that be in tegasc see no issue in throwing out what should be confidental info that’s false and missing lots of figures like been paid for our time,capital repayements in loans etc etc etc we owe a lot to tegasc but there’s a lot of seriously flawed /biased stuff comming out and in dairying anyway there’s one way of doing things ....anything different ideas and info are in short supply

I agree re sharing what should be confidential info - the world and its mother knows exactly what's out of milking cows (as well as beef and lamb), and that's just not right.

I also agree re Teagasc's one-size-fits-all approach. It strikes me as the "public sector" way of looking at things, in that there's one way that works when they look at it from one simple point-of-view. It'd take internal work and strife with lots of bureaucracy to change things, so they just busy themselves with other easy topics and keep the one-size-fits-all.

Grueller

cosatron wrote: »

im calling bullsh*t on this Richie, up to 2 years ago beef farming has being good to efficient farmers, like even 3 or 4 years ago you were getting 4.20 a kg for r grade cattle. even today if a good 9 month Charolais comes in the ring up at our local mart, his still commanding 1000 minimum.

And his mother has cost €700 to keep for the year.
And he is the better one, now average out the few lesser quality ones, heifers being worth €150 less and 5% mortality between calving and calf rearing.
No money in it unfortunately cosatron.

cosatron

Grueller wrote: »

And his mother has cost €700 to keep for the year.
And he is the better one, now average out the few lesser quality ones, heifers being worth €150 less and 5% mortality between calving and calf rearing.
No money in it unfortunately cosatron.

But what i was pointing out is that richie mentioned that there was no money in beef for the last 30 years which isn't true, if there was no money out of it why wasn't there a mass exodus into dairy when the quota's went. In terms of what you mentioned, the good beef farmers around me with the good cows and calves are the one's that aren't complaining about the state of the beef industry.

mahoney_j

cosatron wrote: »

But what i was pointing out is that richie mentioned that there was no money in beef for the last 30 years which isn't true, if there was no money out of it why wasn't there a mass exodus into dairy when the quota's went. In terms of what you mentioned, the good beef farmers around me with the good cows and calves are the one's that aren't complaining about the state of the beef industry.

Most of the beef lads I know at any sort of decent scale have hefty bps money to pick up at year end

richie123

cosatron wrote: »

im calling bullsh*t on this Richie, up to 2 years ago beef farming has being good to efficient farmers, like even 3 or 4 years ago you were getting 4.20 a kg for r grade cattle. even today if a good 9 month Charolais comes in the ring up at our local mart, his still commanding 1000 minimum.

No I don't agree with you.
A half decent dairy cow turns close on two grand every year along with a calf.
The average suckler turns less than 1000...and a lot less in most suckler setups.
There the facts.
That good 9 month charlais your talking about I mean one or two or 10 of them is not good enough.the average of what weanlings you sell will be a lot less than 1000.theres always a few screws in every batch.

richie123

cosatron wrote: »

But what i was pointing out is that richie mentioned that there was no money in beef for the last 30 years which isn't true, if there was no money out of it why wasn't there a mass exodus into dairy when the quota's went. In terms of what you mentioned, the good beef farmers around me with the good cows and calves are the one's that aren't complaining about the state of the beef industry.

There not complaining because off farm incomes and basic payments.
Beef industry would not exist here only for those two. bps and off farm income.

cosatron

richie, this is your original statement

Beef has been mostly a disaster for the last 30 year.without a doubt it's the poorest performing sector in farming.

ive giving you examples of how some efficient farmers around me are doing well but your only retort is bps and off farm income. are you going to back up your statement, surely the bps and off farm income didn't build all the big sheds, buy the big tractors and have the latest land cruisers with the brand new ivor williams on the back in the last 30 years.

patsy_mccabe

cosatron wrote: »

richie, this is your original statement

Beef has been mostly a disaster for the last 30 year.without a doubt it's the poorest performing sector in farming.

ive giving you examples of how some efficient farmers around me are doing well but your only retort is bps and off farm income. are you going to back up your statement, surely the bps and off farm income didn't build all the big sheds, buy the big tractors and have the latest land cruisers with the brand new ivor williams on the back in the last 30 years.

A lot of part timers are being clever with machinery purchases. Buy new machinery, write it off against tax, tak egood care of it and you still have a new machine after. Same with proper built sheds, maximise grants and tax write-offs.

cosatron

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

A lot of part timers are being clever with machinery purchases. Buy new machinery, write it off against tax, tak egood care of it and you still have a new machine after. Same with proper built sheds, maximise grants and tax write-offs.

thats grand but do you agree with richie original statement, your all circling the wagon but none of ye will admit that the statement is wrong and barring the last 3 years beef farming has being on average good to farmers.

Bass Reeves

cosatron wrote: »

richie, this is your original statement

Beef has been mostly a disaster for the last 30 year.without a doubt it's the poorest performing sector in farming.

ive giving you examples of how some efficient farmers around me are doing well but your only retort is bps and off farm income. are you going to back up your statement, surely the bps and off farm income didn't build all the big sheds, buy the big tractors and have the latest land cruisers with the brand new ivor williams on the back in the last 30 years.

The problem with beef is it is no longer viable for a full-time farmer. It's not s named incapable of sustaining two fulltime wages on even two hundred acres. That means that a person and inheritor cannot live off it. However workload on a two acres farm well set up is about half a labour unit for 40 weeks of the year......if you stay away from suckler's you are not tied to it.

Lads driving LC and with big sheds and tractors are often not making money. Up until recently there was lads making a living around the ring but that is harder now. The 1K weanling may be a winner for the seller but a loser for the buyer and you'd be hoping he is exported. Even if you managed to keep cow costs to 400/ head is it possible to average 800/ weanling I think not.

It easy to make money at drystock if you can buy them cheap enough. But lad selling is losing then.

I was totting the profit on a calf to beef system buying good HE calves at 150/ head (not possible) and slaughtering at 1400 euro off grass at 28 months. They leave about 600 euro approximately. On a 60 acre farm you would keep about 33-37, that would give you 20k profit + payments but you would want good land.

There is no fortune to be made at drystock and it is no longer a full-time option unless you have 200 acres

wrangler

richie123 wrote: »

There not complaining because off farm incomes and basic payments.
Beef industry would not exist here only for those two. bps and off farm income.

Does it matter where your income comes from, 50 -60 % of my farm income came from BPS and I never lost any sleep over it.
Anyone could rubbish the farm income figures of circa €10000, part time farmers spending money to save tax will affect those figures, also farmers spending only a few hours farming will pull down the averages.
Plenty of farmers whingeing about the price of beef are pulling another 50c plus per kilo in subsidies. You only need look up the subsidies of the most vocal, this messing does not take from the image of the whingeing farmer,
If there is a farm not making enough money for the last five years, hopefully with the present farmer age profile there's no one thinking of taking it over

cosatron

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The problem with beef is it is no longer viable for a full-time farmer. It's not s named incapable of sustaining two fulltime wages on even two hundred acres. That means that a person and inheritor cannot live off it. However workload on a two acres farm well set up is about half a labour unit for 40 weeks of the year......if you stay away from suckler's you are not tied to it.

Lads driving LC and with big sheds and tractors are often not making money. Up until recently there was lads making a living around the ring but that is harder now. The 1K weanling may be a winner for the seller but a loser for the buyer and you'd be hoping he is exported. Even if you managed to keep cow costs to 400/ head is it possible to average 800/ weanling I think not.

It easy to make money at drystock if you can buy them cheap enough. But lad selling is losing then.

I was totting the profit on a calf to beef system buying good HE calves at 150/ head (not possible) and slaughtering at 1400 euro off grass at 28 months. They leave about 600 euro approximately. On a 60 acre farm you would keep about 33-37, that would give you 20k profit + payments but you would want good land.

There is no fortune to be made at drystock and it is no longer a full-time option unless you have 200 acres

i am fully aware that the beef industry is finished as supply now outweigh demand and cheaper beef being made available on world market by the likes brazil etc. Im not talking about the future, im talking about the past and richie original statement which is wrong, saying the last 30 years of beef farming being a disaster

richie123

wrangler wrote: »

Does it matter where your income comes from, 50 -60 % of my farm income came from BPS and I never lost any sleep over it.
Anyone could rubbish the farm income figures of circa €10000, part time farmers spending money to save tax will affect those figures, also farmers spending only a few hours farming will pull down the averages.
Plenty of farmers whingeing about the price of beef are pulling another 50c plus per kilo in subsidies. You only need look up the subsidies of the most vocal, this messing does not take from the image of the whingeing farmer,
If there is a farm not making enough money for the last five years, hopefully with the present farmer age profile there's no one thinking of taking it over

Yes of course it matters.that money is reducing every year.your your heavily reliant on outsiders deciding what your income will be ...it does matter that nearly 50 %of a famers money is basically a glorified dole payment.

richie123

mahoney_j wrote: »

Dairy may be out in front but the powers that be in tegasc see no issue in throwing out what should be confidental info that’s false and missing lots of figures like been paid for our time,capital repayements in loans etc etc etc we owe a lot to tegasc but there’s a lot of seriously flawed /biased stuff comming out and in dairying anyway there’s one way of doing things ....anything different ideas and info are in short supply

Yes being paid for your time and repayments are left out of all income figures as I understand it.

richie123

cosatron wrote: »

richie, this is your original statement

Beef has been mostly a disaster for the last 30 year.without a doubt it's the poorest performing sector in farming.

ive giving you examples of how some efficient farmers around me are doing well but your only retort is bps and off farm income. are you going to back up your statement, surely the bps and off farm income didn't build all the big sheds, buy the big tractors and have the latest land cruisers with the brand new ivor williams on the back in the last 30 years.

Yes the bps certainly helped build those sheds and buy all this new tractors ..
Strip out bps and or off farm income and money just wouldn't be there to make such purchases.