Mass exodus to Dairying !!!

wrangler

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

That reminds me of the positive farmers conferences and they all sweating their assets to buy foreign property. There was a fair number of farmers sweating after the crash.

Are they still on the go? I haven't heard anything from them in a while.

A serious amount of money taken by men in black suits from farmers involved in CPOs then too. people who never had money before, easy prey for those same vultures

jaymla627

wrangler wrote: »

Why are they able to produce everything else cheaper, milking cows is no different than stitching trainers, mind numbing repetitive work.
China will produce their own milk if they can for their independence, they will eventually get it right, chinese are more prepared to work than any of the irish and will work cheaper than our family labour.... only a matter of time.

Your notions about how easy dairy farming is our pretty hilarious for a lad that has never milked a cow, intensive large scale indoor dairy units require a level of detail and management implemented every single day 365 days a year thats miltary like, and requires highly educated and driven people behind the wheel, the cost base of china re wages and manufacuring is actually quiet high and places like vietnam and other poor asian countries are taking alot of their manufacturing with large mnc switching as wages are alot lower, and intellectual property and manufacturing copyrights rights are actually protected by law not like china that has become a virtual pisstake, that Glanbia have even managed to get themselves caught up in

mf240

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

That reminds me of the positive farmers conferences and they all sweating their assets to buy foreign property. There was a fair number of farmers sweating after the crash.

Are they still on the go? I haven't heard anything from them in a while.

I still remember the phrase underborrowed. Back in the glory days of the Celtic tiger. Every cun.t had two houses

Bass Reeves

mf240 wrote: »

I still remember the phrase underborrowed. Back in the glory days of the Celtic tiger. Every cun.t had two houses

It any cun.t can have two houses

mf240

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It any cun.t can have two houses

It was a basic pyramid scheme. Nothing more complicated than that. The grownup version of musical chairs. But bertie and co thought the music would never stop

mf240

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It any cun.t can have two houses

I suppose getting back to the thread title what happens when every cu.nt has two milking platforms and the music stops

wrangler

mf240 wrote: »

I still remember the phrase underborrowed. Back in the glory days of the Celtic tiger. Every cun.t had two houses

''Make your assets sweat was another one'', I tell you it was their asses that were sweating not long after that
My accountant had me warned and I said it at any meeting I was at. yet farmers lost a hat of money along our road, I think there was about 50m paid out to farmer in about 30miles. It'd be interesting to know what was lost in the end.
Farmers that wouldn't spend christmas losing €500k

MIKEKC

wrangler wrote: »

A serious amount of money taken by men in black suits from farmers involved in CPOs then too. people who never had money before, easy prey for those same vultures

Thought the co councils covered their payments?

Mixed Farmer

Question for any honest serious dairy farmers. Suckler farmer running 100 suck cows, 100 ewes and 60 acres crops(winter/spring barley). Taking decent drawings out off business while still investing in farm. Considering dairy conversion too bring brother home. 120 milk cows open too spring/autumn calving (will rear beef as I have outfarms too do and Tb is rife in area and feel Bobby calved is going too become serious issue here and will be avoiding that real extreme 400kg jersey) . Two decent livings doable? Brother works off farm but with parents slowing up sucklers hard too work on your own.

jaymla627

Mixed Farmer wrote: »

Question for any honest serious dairy farmers. Suckler farmer running 100 suck cows, 100 ewes and 60 acres crops(winter/spring barley). Taking decent drawings out off business while still investing in farm. Considering dairy conversion too bring brother home. 120 milk cows open too spring/autumn calving (will rear beef as I have outfarms too do and Tb is rife in area and feel Bobby calved is going too become serious issue here and will be avoiding that real extreme 400kg jersey) . Two decent livings doable? Brother works off farm but with parents slowing up sucklers hard too work on your own.

More like 200 needed, depends on your parents too, will they still need a income of the farm aswell, if not it’s doable once you can draw down 25-30k of a sfp going forward which would effectively be one of your wages, but if your both thinking of drawing 40k odd plus yearly year in year out your dreaming

wrangler

MIKEKC wrote: »

Thought the co councils covered their payments?

They do but I was referring to the bankers, property developers, agents for every scam going, that came after the negotiations were over

Mixed Farmer

jaymla627 wrote: »

More like 200 needed, depends on your parents too, will they still need a income of the farm aswell, if not it’s doable once you can draw down 25-30k of a sfp going forward which would effectively be one of your wages, but if your both thinking of drawing 40k odd plus yearly year in year out your dreaming

Parents currently draw 25k(total) out off business but due too retire in next few years. Me and brother draw 30k and 5k. Sfp 60% off farm profit. If it goes business needs too make up difference. Which in current system would simply be reduce investments/maintenance in machinery, Fencing etc. If we can make decent profit at current system should we not be fit too make better margin Milking cows? Grazing and cow management at current system really can’t be improved much more.

Panch18

Mixed Farmer wrote: »

Parents currently draw 25k(total) out off business but due too retire in next few years. Me and brother draw 30k and 5k. Sfp 60% off farm profit. If it goes business needs too make up difference. Which in current system would simply be reduce investments/maintenance in machinery, Fencing etc. If we can make decent profit at current system should we not be fit too make better margin Milking cows? Grazing and cow management at current system really can’t be improved much more.

What’s your land base? Would you be rearing all calves to beef?

Mixed Farmer

Panch18 wrote: »

What’s your land base? Would you be rearing all calves to beef?

110 acres at home in block. 45acres 11miles away. 50 acres within 1.5mile off house for cutting. 40 acres Rented 2.5miles from house. Another bit rented but not counting it with landlord I’m bit unsure. Yeah rear all through too beef. Was rearing calves from 1 farmer for years but he’s gone all fresian semen now. All beef finished off grass. Cattle out too kale or grass in February too get finished off grass in sep/Oct. good margin at it but would need too gather up 300 or more calves from as few a herds as possible.

Timmaay

Assuming the milking block is decent dry land fit for a reasonably good grazing season, and you largely got your winter accommodation for the cattle already, then your main expense would be the parlour and dairy. Let's say you go with the likes of a 16/18 unit, decent size tank, holding yard, holding tank etc, that's all gonna set you back the likes of 150k to 200k on a greenfield. If your lucky and it suits to integrate this all into the existing yard/holding tank etc then you could probably skimp on some of the building costs, but would depend on your yard. So that's gonna be the single biggest cost that yous will spent afew years paying back for. 120 cows in that scenario won't pay 2 fulltime wages and pay back the parlour, if you could push it on towards 140+ it would be alot more viable. In terms of yous both working fulltime on the farm, certainly 2 people in the spring it's necessary, however outside of that your brother could easily remain working parttime if he wanted to.

And in terms of wages, I duno about the rest of yous but if the farm here wasn't capable of generating a take home wage of 40k for a full time dairyfarmer most years then I certainly wouldn't be still at it (and I use the guts of another full labour unit here in hired labour). But anyways if you want 2 fulltime jobs outa it then you should be expecting to aim for 40k each in my view.

Mooooo

Is brother looking to keep job? Are you working off farm yourself? 140 would be manageable on home block while not being overly reliant on buffer feeding bar the shoulders. Could go to 200 as ye have outside blocks for feed but more work as ye will prob be buffer feeding for all bar a month or so in the summer, management would need to be top notch. If ye do go in together be clear from the start what ye want out of it and probably more importantly have a way agreed that one of ye can exit if it ever comes to that

Bass Reeves

Mixed Farmer wrote: »

110 acres at home in block. 45acres 11miles away. 50 acres within 1.5mile off house for cutting. 40 acres Rented 2.5miles from house. Another bit rented but not counting it with landlord I’m bit unsure. Yeah rear all through too beef. Was rearing calves from 1 farmer for years but he’s gone all fresian semen now. All beef finished off grass. Cattle out too kale or grass in February too get finished off grass in sep/Oct. good margin at it but would need too gather up 300 or more calves from as few a herds as possible.

You could probably hit 200 cows on the home block with zero grazing from the two land blocks adjacent. You would need uses these blocks for silage as well as most of the far off block, you be able to rear your heifers there as well. however investment would be the killer unless plenty of housing that was adaptable at present. However you would need to be top of your game managing it and cashflow. It would be tough going for 10 years.

Its unlikly you would carry 300 units on a calf to beef system on 250-300 acres. Finishing out of the shed as two year old might get you over 200 units. 0.9 units/acre will get you to 170kgs N/HA.

Buying stores( if fellas will rear them in 2-3 years time) would allow you to stock at a store to summer finish/acre. There is a lot of buying in 250 stores but it is possible.

In either system you need a lot of sheds about 5 sheds with 5 bays of slats each for taht much cattle. Bid advantage is you could both nearly work fulltime off farm on the store to beef system

Mixed Farmer

Mooooo wrote: »

Is brother looking to keep job? Are you working off farm yourself? 140 would be manageable on home block while not being overly reliant on buffer feeding bar the shoulders. Could go to 200 as ye have outside blocks for feed but more work as ye will prob be buffer feeding for all bar a month or so in the summer, management would need to be top notch. If ye do go in together be clear from the start what ye want out of it and probably more importantly have a way agreed that one of ye can exit if it ever comes to that

Thanks for your replies. Getting general consensus that the answers no. Only 1 100 by 50 shed cattle with tank and low back bedded. Nearly finished 100 by 50 fully tanked with 64 cubicles. All cows lie out at minute but going too house 70 sucklers this winter. Parlour and dairy and another 100 by 50 cubicle house required. (Will only tank back off feeding passage in next cubicle house). 100 by 13/15 tank. Plan too spend money that money on that shed regardless off milk too make everything more manageable. Can produce more beef and milk 120 cows and fully utilise grass on home block. Has too be twice or more viable than suckler operation

farmertipp

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

That reminds me of the positive farmers conferences and they all sweating their assets to buy foreign property. There was a fair number of farmers sweating after the crash.

Are they still on the go? I haven't heard anything from them in a while.

not sure . one of their earlier speakers/darlings ,/ poster boys was locked up for murder last year

Keepgrowing

Welding Rod wrote: »

Farming is like investing in the stock market. It’s not timing the market that makes a return. It’s time in the market.
Staying with your enterprise be it milk, beef or sheep, and getting technically better over time and with experience, is surely better than trying to time the market, and swinging from one system to the other, chasing the holy grail.
All these enterprise have good, bad, and indifferent years, on market price level. Real good farmers, make real good returns on good market prices, make enough on bad prices, and do ok on indifferent years. Over time it’s ok financially. Lifestyle, that’s up to yourself.

That is one of the best posts I’ve ever read on boards.

cjpm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

That is one of the best posts I’ve ever read on boards.

It’s pretty good to be fair......


But Bob Charles planning to piss off his neighbour by riding the neighbours daughter in his boat shoes once she was 18 is still my favourite! :pac:

Bullocks

cjpm wrote: »

It’s pretty good to be fair......


But Bob Charles planning to piss off his neighbour by riding the neighbours daughter in his boat shoes once she was 18 is still my favourite! :pac:

I wonder how it panned out for him?!!!

Bullocks

Mixed Farmer wrote: »

Question for any honest serious dairy farmers. Suckler farmer running 100 suck cows, 100 ewes and 60 acres crops(winter/spring barley). Taking decent drawings out off business while still investing in farm. Considering dairy conversion too bring brother home. 120 milk cows open too spring/autumn calving (will rear beef as I have outfarms too do and Tb is rife in area and feel Bobby calved is going too become serious issue here and will be avoiding that real extreme 400kg jersey) . Two decent livings doable? Brother works off farm but with parents slowing up sucklers hard too work on your own.

If you didn't go to dairy would you sell as much beef with a lot less work by getting rid of the suckler cows and buying light stores or weanlings?

Hard Knocks

Bullocks wrote: »

If you didn't go to dairy would you sell as much beef with a lot less work by getting rid of the suckler cows and buying light stores or weanlings?

Just on your point, I hear lots mention same in last while
Are these light stores / weanlings to be suckler or dairy bred?

Bullocks

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Just on your point, I hear lots mention same in last while
Are these light stores / weanlings to be suckler or dairy bred?

I suppose that is a choice for every farmer. Dairy might be the obvious type as lads get out of sucklers but I'd say there will always be beef weanlings bred aswell. Certainly will around me anyhow

Siamsa Sessions

Just on parlours for a minute - should the cows standing position in the parlour be matched to her size?

That is, a small Jersey cow needs a certain space but a big Holstein cow needs a different space so she’s 90-degrees to the pit? And a crossbred needs something in between?

Timmaay

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Just on parlours for a minute - should the cows standing position in the parlour be matched to her size?

That is, a small Jersey cow needs a certain space but a big Holstein cow needs a different space so she’s 90-degrees to the pit? And a crossbred needs something in between?

Nay no real difference, the majority of parlours are 2ft 6 these days which means the cow is at an angle of 60 degrees (I think), against the older design of 3ft centres (so cow at 45 degrees and you put the clusters on in the side, big disaster here were kickers!!), you have the odd few new parlours with 2ft2 centres and that means the cow is at 90deg, some lads prefer this but it means the cow has to turn a full 90deg both entering and exiting. In terms of cow size you get some parlours with an adjustable front breast rail that let's you tighten or loosen for cowsize, but most the time you just pick parlour dimensions that you will think best suit the majority of your cows. And in the springtime then when a big number of heifers come in you'll just have to let them pack in as tight as they want to go (usually have 16 in my 14 unit here), not every heifer will get feed however its largely the only way to keep your sanity ha.

Panch18

Mixed Farmer wrote: »

Thanks for your replies. Getting general consensus that the answers no. Only 1 100 by 50 shed cattle with tank and low back bedded. Nearly finished 100 by 50 fully tanked with 64 cubicles. All cows lie out at minute but going too house 70 sucklers this winter. Parlour and dairy and another 100 by 50 cubicle house required. (Will only tank back off feeding passage in next cubicle house). 100 by 13/15 tank. Plan too spend money that money on that shed regardless off milk too make everything more manageable. Can produce more beef and milk 120 cows and fully utilise grass on home block. Has too be twice or more viable than suckler operation

IF you get your set up costs right and don't borrow too much i think you will easily manage 120 cows and rear all your calves. Without too much borrowings you should be able to pull 2 wages out of it, reasonably easy most years i would say.

I reckon the 120 cows will pay 2 wages and then the beef side could be used for saving/investment or whatever you wanted

Just need to plan the set up properly i would say

Siamsa Sessions

Timmaay wrote: »

Nay no real difference, the majority of parlours are 2ft 6 these days which means the cow is at an angle of 60 degrees (I think), against the older design of 3ft centres (so cow at 45 degrees and you put the clusters on in the side, big disaster here were kickers!!), you have the odd few new parlours with 2ft2 centres and that means the cow is at 90deg, some lads prefer this but it means the cow has to turn a full 90deg both entering and exiting. In terms of cow size you get some parlours with an adjustable front breast rail that let's you tighten or loosen for cowsize, but most the time you just pick parlour dimensions that you will think best suit the majority of your cows. And in the springtime then when a big number of heifers come in you'll just have to let them pack in as tight as they want to go (usually have 16 in my 14 unit here), not every heifer will get feed however its largely the only way to keep your sanity ha.

Thanks for that. The old parlour here was “designed” by a local handyman back in the day, so the cow’s leg stood right in front of her udder - you could put the cluster on in front of her leg or behind, but it never really sat right either way!

Birdnuts

Some interesting comments from an established breeder and Dairy farmer in the NE in the Farming Indo this week. He seemed rather critical of many of the new entrants to Dairy post quota - he suggested that many lacked any appreciation for Dairy stock(viewed as mere numbers) and viewed the business like a 9-5 job. Also had concerns about the image of the industry in terms of animal welfare, environmental pressures, antibiotic issues etc. brought about the rapid expansion of new entrants and the potential impact on more established/experienced Dairy farms down the line.