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Is it just me or have SF vanished?
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Bishop of hope wrote: »He did and he worked them out well in his favour.
If the deficit in Northern Ireland is smaller or could be than it is how come it isnt?
Do the British love them so much that they're giving them too much?
If they are why are the health and housing system that they keep giving out about here, in as bad if not worse a state up there?
I'm not arguing against a UI either, but there's no point in codding people tat it won't cost a lot either.
If dispersing untruths is the way you want to get it fire ahead with that rhetoric, but I won't swallow it.
You do realise that total tax receipts for northern Ireland were in excess of £12 billion last year, yet the British government returned only £9.5 billion as subvention
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/853118/Disaggregated_tax_and_NICs_receipts_-_methodological_note.pdf
(page 9)
Every single penny of tax collected in Northern Ireland goes directly to Westminster. Not a single penny remains in Northern Ireland. From those tax receipts the British government then gives a subvention, and believe it or not they give back far less than they take.
You are also aware that the British government controls spending budgets in the North, so to accuse any party in the North Ireland executive of mismanaging their budget or the economy is a bit rich to say the least.
Finally there is the issue of Reserved and excepted matters.
You know this already, so I see no need to have to remind you.
Reserved and excepted matters mean the British Parliament in Westminster and only the British Parliament can modify a law or nationally agreed payment (unemployment, sick pay pension etc) that is included in the list of reserved and excepted matters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserved_and_excepted_matters
So you argument is why is northern Ireland health service, education and policing in the mess it is is, and the very simple answer is that the taxation collected to fund these was collected sent straight to the UK and only a fraction of it was returned to Northern Ireland.
The budgets for all these are set in Westminster and the problem lies squarely there.
How would Paschal Donahue or the current finance minister have managed our economy if they were told they were only allowed to spend 70% of this countries receipts.
Seriously you are having a laugh, we had finance ministers for the last ten years that couldnt even get one single service in this country anywhere near fixed despite having the ability to change taxation and laws and then you point fingers at The Northern Ireland executive, knowing full well they are not a government with the full powers to alter taxation, budgets or laws
you might as well blame Dublin City council or Cork count council for all the failures of the past governments in this country because the Northern Ireland Executive is also nothing more that a glorified Super County Council with about the same powers.0 -
have always found this site to be accurate with regards UK and Northern Ireland spending. very useful as you change choose what to display on the charts
https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/year_spending_2020NIbn_17bc1n#ukgs302
Th subvention of 9.5 billion that the British government pays (yes it is 9.5 billion not the 12 billion that many tout), actually includes an awful lot of expenses that would not be relevant if Unification happened.
That subvention of 9.5 billion also includes running a totally separate devolved government a significant cost that will be redundant or significantly reduced when departments are absorbed by departments here. At the moment this accounts for 430 million of the total spending in Northern Ireland.
Pensions cost 6.9 billion a year, but that's an interesting issue?
Obviously the British government have been collecting pension contributions and putting that into their National fund. I would assume that if a United Ireland did happen, those contributions would be transferred to the Irish government.
What that could end resulting in is the Irish government getting a huge lump sum that would significant pay towards any transitional costs of an United Ireland. obviously that money would have to be replaced, but it would allow our government to spread any cost of a United Ireland over a longer period than the time it takes for a transition.
Alternatively the British government would repay those contributions yearly or over a phased period. I would imagine no Chancellor in Westminster would be happy with a bill amounting to billions of pounds, but at the same time the Irish government would be keen to be managing those pension reserves themselves for best returns. We dont know what will happen but if it was a single lump sum that would make a United Ireland far easier to take on as there would be some ability to defer costs somewhat
But if the UK insists on continuing to pay existing pensions that's a huge reduction of the deficit or costs of absorbing Northern Ireland
Currently, Northern Ireland’s share of the UK’s defence budget, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and similar items is around €1.5bn. Now ZERO of that appears in Northern Ireland's spending budgets. BUT it does very much appear in UK subvention or the 9.5 billion deficit.
Straight away the 9.5 billion has now reduced significantly to somewhere around €8 billion
equalising the vat rate (Ireland currently 23% UK currently 20%) would bring in an additional dividend. total dividend unknown to me as no published figure that I could find were specific to Northern Ireland consumer spending or tax revenue.
Even so this would be a pretty substantial amount
For comparison Republic of Ireland collected a total of 17.9 billion VAT in 2017
Also as part of accounting practice, "Consumption of fixed capital”, or 'depreciation of government assets' to put it into plain language, is currently 2 billion of that 9.5 billion subvention. The last value I could find (2016). To put that into context the Irish government last year stated that their "Consumption of fixed capital” for the republic of Ireland was 3.7 billion. Now that 2 billion depreciation seems inordinately high when the two are compared especially when the population of the republic is considerably greater, it likely that that has been used to some degree as an accounting fudge. As part of a transfer from the UK to Ireland that 2 billion will almost certainly be reduced and many of those assets sold off either before unification by the UK or after. There could easily be 500 million of a reduction there.
When the EU partially funded the German unification it amounted to about 3% of GDP for entirety of the EC (the EU came later with Maastricht). I found it extremely hard to dig out real figures for this as being this was agreed in the period of the EC there appears to be no relevant document on the EU portal, but the 3% figure is fairly certain as it was mentioned by the then current German Chancellor and other EC ministers in many newspaper interviews. (im afraid you will have to google that for yourself I didnt save the links).
What I found shocking was that the EU gave so much to Germany.
GDP for the EU in 1990 $7.6 trillion (dollars, figures from world bank). @ 3% that equates to total EU funding for Germany unification in 1980 of $228 billion (again dollars, sorry. Would be great to get accurate figures in euros and a proper break down supplied by EU but I haven't found it.)
That is an absolutely staggering amount of money. I know Germany has a extremely large economy now (approx $3.8 trillion at present, dollars again), and has a very large population, but even so.
My point here is it appears the EU have given extremely significant aid in a previous Unification process. Far more than any one of us might expect, certainly way way more than I expected.
I'm not suggesting for one minute that we would get a deal that came to even a tiny fraction of that, but a tiny fraction would still be very very significant.
Anyhow let stick to solid figures.
Already with fairly solid and reasoned figures It appears that the 9.5 billion subvention the UK currently pays would very realistically fall below 7.5 billion if the costs that would not apply or be relevant in a united Ireland were removed and that doesn't even take into account the pensions issue. If the UK insists on continuing to pay for them rather than hand over huge pensions reserves there's yet another 6 billion per year right there.
If they wipe their hands of the whole matter then our government would be looking at a huge pension reserve fund. They couldn't spend it but they certainly could prudently borrow from it to extend the costs on unification.
Either way the pensions costs are more or less deductible from the deficit for a number of years or until that pension reserve fund runs out. Remove the 6 billion from the 7.5 billion and we are now down to 1.5 billion.
With the pension reserve issue, and other savings and a bit of aid from the EU a United Ireland could become reasonably affordable.
The numbers are all there if you don't believe me. Everything number I have posted is publicly available. The simple truth is the scaremongering about the cost of a United Ireland is simply that scaremongering.
It took me a lot of time and effort to go through that process of gathering all those figure a couple of months back. I myself was shocked at how little it would cost us in the event of a United Ireland. The truth is if we want a United Ireland it more or less pays for itself.
Basic Breakdown
9.5 billion subvention
- 6.9 billion pensions
- 1.5 billion Northern Ireland share of the UK's defense and overseas spending.
- 0.5 billion VAT equalisation
- other taxes collected in Northern Ireland but not returned through subvention
What makes you assume or believe that a Dublin Centric government will tolerate or work to encourage multinationals to set up in Belfast or Derry ? You think TDs from Cork, Limerick and Kildare are going to sit idly by ?
Ha ha ha , good joke
Have a good look at Letterkenny and much of Donegal , Cavan and Monaghan . These counties have had ministers and even a few Tainiste, yet ...ability to encourage business to the counties ? Almost none . It for the Quinn groups , yikes
As come off it, people multinationals are not stupid . NI has had peace for over 20 years now ,Derry is still bit of a dump . Yer boys , be they Unionist or republican couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery . There was nothing stopping the first minister and co to travel the world and encourage people to come to NI0 -
Bishop of hope wrote: »What are we having?
your having a to and fro about finance. the whole country, north and south, needs to discuss this. thats the first thing that needs to happen. figure out what we - as in everyone - would like a UI to be and then work from there.
The idea of the south taking over the north as is, isnt my idea of a UI.0 -
Randy Archer wrote: »What makes you assume or believe that a Dublin Centric government will tolerate or work to encourage multinationals to set up in Belfast or Derry ? You think TDs from Cork, Limerick and Kildare are going to sit idly by ?
Ha ha ha , good joke
Have a good look at Letterkenny and much of Donegal , Cavan and Monaghan . These counties have had ministers and even a few Tainiste, yet ...ability to encourage business to the counties ? Almost none . It for the Quinn groups , yikes
As come off it, people multinationals are not stupid . NI has had peace for over 20 years now ,Derry is still bit of a dump . Yer boys , be they Unionist or republican couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery . There was nothing stopping the first minister and co to travel the world and encourage people to come to NI
And again...more biased finger in the air stuff. Not a scintilla of back-up, just abuse.
Waiting for somebody to present a coherent backed up rebuttal.0 -
your having a to and fro about finance. the whole country, north and south, needs to discuss this. thats the first thing that needs to happen. figure out what we - as in everyone - would like a UI to be and then work from there.
The idea of the south taking over the north as is, isnt my idea of a UI.
When the North actually gets its house in order, which will be never, and UI is seriously considered (deep down way down the priority of most Southerners ) the South will dictate what happens on this island . No one is going to tolerate northerners telling the country what to do . We don’t need them , they need us
We’d be nuts to take over the North right now, true. Crazy, we have our own problems
In the meantime , let the north actually learn to work without the religion and nationality divide . Peace walls still stand in Belfast . Why ?0 -
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your having a to and fro about finance. the whole country, north and south, needs to discuss this. thats the first thing that needs to happen. figure out what we - as in everyone - would like a UI to be and then work from there.
The idea of the south taking over the north as is, isnt my idea of a UI.
Fair play for that. I agree with you.
I answered a post on the financial aspect, but you're right it's not it all.0 -
Bishop of hope wrote: »I'm having a discussion and giving my knowledge of what I know.
He has outlined figures from a site but with no back up link to show somebody else coming up with them, the only one I could find backing his assertion was Pearse Doherty.
Northern Ireland deficit has decreased slightly in the last few years, but that's not due to any significant economic upturn, that's due to austerity, spending cuts, and its still around the 10 million sterling or so per year.
The deficit apears to be 10 billion yes, but the British government collected in excess of 12 billion in tax receipt from NI last year. Subtract that, the 6.9 billion in pension payments, and the 1.5 billion Northern Ireland contributes to the army and British overseas adventures and its pretty break even.
But hold on here. Are you suggesting I am not allowed to actually research and find things out for myself.
Is it you position that to argue a point you must be spoon-fed an argument from a political party of your choice or it doesn't count?
Well if that's how naive you are I feel sorry for you.
Personally i prefer not to believe everything I hear, not from ANY party, unless I can substantiate it myself.
I honestly had not read or even known about that article you posted a link to.
I think you are digging a hole here for yourself. The facts have been laid out for you in black and white, directly from a British government website, but because they dont fit into your view they somehow must be false.
Do you realise how hypocritical that makes you when accusing others of not sticking to the facts, and then when they do how empty your argument actually is.0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »And again...more biased finger in the air stuff. Not a scintilla of back-up, just abuse.
Waiting for somebody to present a coherent backed up rebuttal.
I posted no abuse Francie, didn't stop you having a go though did it.
Kettle pot black.0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »And again...more biased finger in the air stuff. Not a scintilla of back-up, just abuse.
Waiting for somebody to present a coherent backed up rebuttal.
Have a good look at the social welfare records for the numbers on the live register for each year ! As per usual , Donegal , Cavan, Monaghan top of the list ...
Name the multinationals in Donegal , Cavan n Monaghan -chop chop . List the main employers not called the Quinn / Kingspan group in Donegal , Monaghan and Cavan . How much of it is civil And public service ? How many farmers are not on social payments ?
You know the answer but too dishonest
You haven’t bloody clue mushroom picker . You are not remotely qualified to talk economics . Not even the basics . These are facts , not abuse ! Sit down and shut up
You are a compete spoofer .
You seriously believe that the South would let the big corporations move up North ? Lol bless
You’d be laughed out of the room , in person . So don’t come on here with your pig Ignorance . You do realise that people reading this see the mentality of typical IRA apologist and SF supporters ? Keep it up, he will never be taken seriously0 -
The deficit apears to be 10 billion yes, but the British government collected in excess of 12 billion in tax receipt from NI last year. Subtract that, the 6.9 billion in pension payments, and the 1.5 billion Northern Ireland contributes to the army and British overseas adventures and its pretty break even.
But hold on here. Are you suggesting I am not allowed to actually research and find things out for myself.
Is it you position that to argue a point you must be spoon-fed an argument from a political party of your choice or it doesn't count?
Well if that's how naive you are I feel sorry for you.
Personally i prefer not to believe everything I hear, not from ANY party, unless I can substantiate it myself.
I honestly had not read or even known about that article you posted a link to.
I think you are digging a hole here for yourself. The facts have been laid out for you in black and white, directly from a British government website, but because they dont fit into your view they somehow must be false.
Do you realise how hypocritical that makes you when accusing others of not sticking to the facts, and then when they do how empty your argument actually is.
Look ef, I'm not being anything other than discussive.
Read your own first paragraph above, you make it appear that the North is making a, profit by that statement, they collected móre taxes than the deficit?
The fact is that even after those taxes are collected there is still a 10 billion deficit, there's no dressing it up.
The hole is yours not mine.0 -
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your having a to and fro about finance. the whole country, north and south, needs to discuss this. thats the first thing that needs to happen. figure out what we - as in everyone - would like a UI to be and then work from there.
The idea of the south taking over the north as is, isnt my idea of a UI.
I totally agree. But first we must kill the false argument that a United Ireland is never going to be affordable.
The next step is as you say to actually start building bridges so that those in the North that have reservations about a United Ireland can feel comfortable with the idea before the nitty gritty details of how it would happen or even work are hammered out.
If the Unionist dont want a United Ireland or are uncomfortable with the idea then lets be realistic, its never going to work. But the question is is that unwillingness to consider unification a deep rooted cultural issue based on prejudice or is it based on other more practical matters?
Speaking for myself if there was a United Ireland tomorrow morning and the Orange Order wanted to march down O'Connell Street I would not have an issue with that. Just because they become part of a United Ireland does not mean they also have to ditch their cultural identity.0 -
Bishop of hope wrote: »I posted no abuse Francie, didn't stop you having a go though did it.
Kettle pot black.
I wasn't referring to you Bish about 'abuse'. See Randy's postings. 0 -
Bishop of hope wrote: »Look ef, I'm not being anything other than discussive.
Read your own first paragraph above, you make it appear that the North is making a, profit by that statement, they collected móre taxes than the deficit?
The fact is that even after those taxes are collected there is still a 10 billion deficit, there's no dressing it up.
The hole is yours not mine.
No I am not making that claim at all.
What I am saying is that you simply cannot discuss the economy or the politics in Northern Ireland without first accepting that all budgets and most of the laws are solely the remit of the Parliament in Westminster, and that the concept of a Northern Ireland government in the true sense simply does not exist.
You have to accept that at best the northern Ireland executive is noting more than a super county council, given fixed budgets without the ability to adjust taxation or control the economy in northern Ireland as a single entity.
All tax receipts and pension contributions go directly to Westminster.
To then claim that the British government is heavily subsidising Northern Ireland by over 10 billion pound a year is simply wrong. Is there a deficit between what is collected and sub-vented and paid out in pensions, its very hard to tell because taxation and pension contributions are not collected by the Northern Ireland Executive and precise records and figure are not in the public domain. There probably is some degree of subsidy involved.
But are you telling me that the total spend in Kerry or Leitrim for instance is solely funded by the taxation collected in those counties. In every country in the world there will be areas where some degree of subsidy is normal, due to low population, lack of industry or lack of employment.0 -
Randy Archer wrote: »Have a good look at the social welfare records for the numbers on the live register for each year ! As per usual , Donegal , Cavan, Monaghan tip of the list ...
Name the multinationals in Donegal , Cavan n Monaghan -chop chop . List the main employers not called the Quinn / Kingspan group in Donegal , Monaghan and Cavan . How much of it is civil service ? How many farmers are not on social payments ?
You know the answer but too dishonest
You haven’t bloody clue mushroom picker . You are not remotely qualified to talk economics . Not even the basics . This are facts , not abuse ! Sit down and shut up
You are a compete spoofer .
You seriously believe that the South would let the big corporations move up North ? Lol bless
You’d be laughed out of the room , in person . So don’t come on here with your pig Ignorance . You do realise that people reading this see the mentality of typical IRA apologist and SF supporters ? Keep it up, he will never be taken seriously
Prudential one of the largest insurance and financial companies in the world set up a campus in Letterkenny in 2017. 1500 employees now. I'd say you don't know much about much if we're honest?0 -
There are 208,000 (~11.5% of the population) public sector employees in NI with 315,000 in ROI (~6.3% of the population) - if you merged them you'd have a far higher proportion of government salaries per head in the UI than you have in ROI at the moment. This means higher taxes for the people in ROI.
Even where you get synergies between the two entities you are looking at a high proportion of the people no longer working going on social welfare etc0 -
a very cool kid wrote: »There are 208,000 (~11.5% of the population) public sector employees in NI with 315,000 in ROI (~6.3% of the population) - if you merged them you'd have a far higher proportion of government salaries per head in the UI than you have in ROI at the moment. This means higher taxes for the people in ROI.
Even where you get synergies between the two entities you are looking at a high proportion of the people no longer working going on social welfare etc
Its an argument I have often heard, and no matter what happens if a United Ireland does becomes a reality there will no doubt have to be a certain amount of trimming within the civil service. We have an Island that has two police forces, two health services, two education systems, in fact almost two of every type of public service. While the front line workers will definitely still be required much of the administration jobs will be duplicated and have to be thinned.
But having said that, I think a United Ireland would create a small economic boom in northern Ireland. With property values so low, an international airport no more than a hours drive, and short sea crossings they would be attractive to multinationals and big business. If Brexit goes totally pear shaped (very likely if Boris is still PM when a deal is possibly signed or rejected) there will be a lot of UK companies looking for a base within the EU. Northern Ireland would be more attractive than Dublin simply because we as a country have allowed Dublin to totally outgrow its infrastructural capacity.
On balance I would imagine there would be more new jobs created than jobs lost in Northern Ireland within the public services and civil service, but I accept that is only a personal opinion.
What really needs to happen first is for an Irish government to actually take the idea of a United Ireland seriously. The IDA and Enterprise Ireland have had years of experience bringing new jobs to this country. It would be a smart move by any government to actually set up a few studies as to how would you go about dealing with the issues a United Ireland would create.
Simply basing a decision on spreadsheet economics without doing the thorough and detailed studies first would be a disaster, this work needs to be started now, so that if in 5, 10, 15 years time the opportunity for a United Ireland is possible we know exactly what it will cost, how long it would take for the transition of services and government departments, and have the likes of the IDA and Enterprise Ireland geared up and ready to take on what would be a truly massive task.
Personally I think its not only possible but inevitable in the next 10 to 15 years, but its up to the Irish government to be as prepared as possible so that the transition goes as smoothly and as cheaply as possible.0 -
Its an argument I have often heard, and no matter what happens if a United Ireland does becomes a reality there will no doubt have to be a certain amount of trimming within the civil service. We have an Island that has two police forces, two health services, two education systems, in fact almost two of every type of public service. While the front line workers will definitely still be required much of the administration jobs will be duplicated and have to be thinned.
But having said that, I think a United Ireland would create a small economic boom in northern Ireland. With property values so low, an international airport no more than a hours drive, and short sea crossings they would be attractive to multinationals and big business. If Brexit goes totally pear shaped (very likely if Boris is still PM when a deal is possibly signed or rejected) there will be a lot of UK companies looking for a base within the EU. Northern Ireland would be more attractive than Dublin simply because we as a country have allowed Dublin to totally outgrow its infrastructural capacity.
On balance I would imagine there would be more new jobs created than jobs lost in Northern Ireland within the public services and civil service, but I accept that is only a personal opinion.
What really needs to happen first is for an Irish government to actually take the idea of a United Ireland seriously. The IDA and Enterprise Ireland have had years of experience bringing new jobs to this country. It would be a smart move by any government to actually set up a few studies as to how would you go about dealing with the issues a United Ireland would create.
Simply basing a decision on spreadsheet economics without doing the thorough and detailed studies first would be a disaster, this work needs to be started now, so that if in 5, 10, 15 years time the opportunity for a United Ireland is possible we know exactly what it will cost, how long it would take for the transition of services and government departments, and have the likes of the IDA and Enterprise Ireland geared up and ready to take on what would be a truly massive task.
Personally I think its not only possible but inevitable in the next 10 to 15 years, but its up to the Irish government to be as prepared as possible so that the transition goes as smoothly and as cheaply as possible.
On the trimming thing - it's likely the synergy redundancies would be applied to people who come out of workforce and straight into social welfare - think mainly natural attrition - early retirement mainly, unions will not allow a pile of up front redundancies (remember the HSE when former has none for merged admin roles).
On things being cheap - on the wrong side of Brexit and with a currency change inflation would be rampant up there. The workforce is not quite as attractive as in ROI (less educated generally, less integrated with US Corp culture for a start. You need to remember it took about 20 years of trying to get the multinational sector to take off with high end jobs in the ROI - It would be similar up there.
On pensions I'm a little lost. ROI pays pensions in a pay as you go basis - is the UK not the same? We would still be liable for these to be fuded/pair one way or another?0 -
Its an argument I have often heard, and no matter what happens if a United Ireland does becomes a reality there will no doubt have to be a certain amount of trimming within the civil service. We have an Island that has two police forces, two health services, two education systems, in fact almost two of every type of public service. While the front line workers will definitely still be required much of the administration jobs will be duplicated and have to be thinned.
But having said that, I think a United Ireland would create a small economic boom in northern Ireland. With property values so low, an international airport no more than a hours drive, and short sea crossings they would be attractive to multinationals and big business. If Brexit goes totally pear shaped (very likely if Boris is still PM when a deal is possibly signed or rejected) there will be a lot of UK companies looking for a base within the EU. Northern Ireland would be more attractive than Dublin simply because we as a country have allowed Dublin to totally outgrow its infrastructural capacity.
On balance I would imagine there would be more new jobs created than jobs lost in Northern Ireland within the public services and civil service, but I accept that is only a personal opinion.
What really needs to happen first is for an Irish government to actually take the idea of a United Ireland seriously. The IDA and Enterprise Ireland have had years of experience bringing new jobs to this country. It would be a smart move by any government to actually set up a few studies as to how would you go about dealing with the issues a United Ireland would create.
Simply basing a decision on spreadsheet economics without doing the thorough and detailed studies first would be a disaster, this work needs to be started now, so that if in 5, 10, 15 years time the opportunity for a United Ireland is possible we know exactly what it will cost, how long it would take for the transition of services and government departments, and have the likes of the IDA and Enterprise Ireland geared up and ready to take on what would be a truly massive task.
Personally I think its not only possible but inevitable in the next 10 to 15 years, but its up to the Irish government to be as prepared as possible so that the transition goes as smoothly and as cheaply as possible.
I don't see any of that happening in the short term myself.
The sectarian divide would still be there, the volatility within the two communities.
I can't see too many wanting to invest in property in a race and religion dominated area.
None of that will dissappear in the short term, in fact it will probably worsen.
The IDA, have you looked around Ireland South lately?
Outside of the capital there is fcuk all happening and given the corporates who are already here, who do you think will come and invest or even move their business north of the border anyway.
Then take brexit on board and the amount of business that NI does with mainland UK, how much would that be affected by being back in the EU.0 -
Prudential one of the largest insurance and financial companies in the world set up a campus in Letterkenny in 2017. 1500 employees now. I'd say you don't know much about much if we're honest?
Letterkenny is a town with a population of just under 20,000 , more when you include the rural areas immediately surrounding it
1500 employees vs a potential workforce of over 10,000 - oh yeah, that’s really going to cut down the current numbers of the live registrar
Prudential , lol, oh dear of dear .... you are assuming locals will be getting the key jobs lol. Much of Letterkenny IT population was always from outside Donegal too .
Relying on a pension - insurance company with the recession that’s coming ? STOP EMBARRASSING YOURSELF FFS
You saw what happened when Quinn Insurance went bang to Cavan n Monaghan , sure some locals picked up paramilitary and kidnapping as a hobby
Not much use to nearby Ballyboefy , Gweedore, Donegal Town, Dunloe , Inishowen and Glenties .... etc etc
Actually, the so called Celtic tiger more or less passed by Donegal. The county was an unemployment black spot even then !! In fact between 2003-2005 Letterkenny had LOST its then main private employer - a pharmaceutical group , (near the hospital ) that rivalled the likes of Elan ,down South. Fruit of the Loom up the county went bust .. in 2004 , the height of the boom a mail order company Eargail closed down
The 2016 census showed that the unemployment rate in Donegal was 18%, 5% ABOVE the national average . It had the second highest unemployment rate at this time, and this is a common trend over the decades
As of the second week of April this year, the numbers unemployed, including those on Covid Payments was 16.5%
I’d say , you worry about sticking to stuff that you know what you are talking about rather than what others do, you will be made look extremely thick . Donegal is going to need a hell of a lot more than an insurance company in Letterkenny ....
Lol0 -
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FrancieBrady wrote: »I wasn't referring to you Bish about 'abuse'. See Randy's postings.
Learn the difference between facts and abuse . I stand by what I said because it is the truth . You need start learning to stay within your level, granted it’s not much, but you offer zero contribution being dishonest and living in la la land . Less talking, more listening
Especially so, when you are an apologist for the IRA and SF0 -
a very cool kid wrote: »There are 208,000 (~11.5% of the population) public sector employees in NI with 315,000 in ROI (~6.3% of the population) - if you merged them you'd have a far higher proportion of government salaries per head in the UI than you have in ROI at the moment. This means higher taxes for the people in ROI.
Even where you get synergies between the two entities you are looking at a high proportion of the people no longer working going on social welfare etc
The public sector will need to be cut down if a UI happens. !
It’s not viable to have so many on the island, doing essentially the same work . When that hits home, we will see how enthusiastic Betty and John, life long pen pusher For various State agencies , north and South, are about a UI , when their jobs are on the line
Nordies will get hit hard, but at the same time, Nordies might get some concessions, which in turn will lead to resentment from the “fix the road brigade down South”
There is already way too much of the work force in the public sector
Same when it comes to county councils and the previous Dáil seats0 -
Randy Archer wrote: »When the North actually gets its house in order, which will be never, and UI is seriously considered (deep down way down the priority of most Southerners ) the South will dictate what happens on this island . No one is going to tolerate northerners telling the country what to do . We don’t need them , they need us
We’d be nuts to take over the North right now, true. Crazy, we have our own problems
In the meantime , let the north actually learn to work without the religion and nationality divide . Peace walls still stand in Belfast . Why ?
Change is coming. Brexit will hit home and show the North what Westminster and the little Britains think of them. Likewise in Scotland unless the economy there stands up to the demands that Brexit will bring in. Cavan Monaghan Donegal havent been able to develop their full agricultural, industrial and tourism potential because of partition and the same can be said for South Armagh Tyrone Fermanagh.
This talk about "southerners vs northerners" is overblown. In a united Ireland the Northern bloc of Deputies will be strong enough to withstand any chance of neglect by the rest. The natural hinterland for Donegal is Derry and the traditional province of Ulster (9 counties) will be as influential as the West or Rural Alliance groups. Daisy Hill, Altnagelvin and the Belfast Hospitals will be all part of a greater health service nationwide. I certainly believe that there are adequate resources in Ireland to support a single state but there are still a lot of compromises to be made from both sides.0 -
Change is coming. Brexit will hit home and show the North what Westminster and the little Britains think of them. Likewise in Scotland unless the economy there stands up to the demands that Brexit will bring in. Cavan Monaghan Donegal havent been able to develop their full agricultural, industrial and tourism potential because of partition and the same can be said for South Armagh Tyrone Fermanagh.
This talk about "southerners vs northerners" is overblown. In a united Ireland the Northern bloc of Deputies will be strong enough to withstand any chance of neglect by the rest. The natural hinterland for Donegal is Derry and the traditional province of Ulster (9 counties) will be as influential as the West or Rural Alliance groups. Daisy Hill, Altnagelvin and the Belfast Hospitals will be all part of a greater health service nationwide. I certainly believe that there are adequate resources in Ireland to support a single state but there are still a lot of compromises to be made from both sides.
Say tired claims but it never happens (not an attack on you btw )
There will be no change , until the peace walls are taken down and SF and loyalist cop on and work for the community as a whole . Sure we have Unionists now playing silly buggers because a Shinners had their ra funeral akin to the travellers down in Limerick, while Covid is on. That will take a few weeks of gestures and fist thumping in the desk ...while ordinary people are ignored
No one likes the nordies , never mind Blighty. Yes, Westminster will push them under a bus if push comes to shove but then you have to convince Southerners if we want that **** show , we don’t , not right now
Nordies are probably going to come out of it alright. Stay within the U.K. but get some special status in the eurozone, best of both worlds . Threat of violence is real (From both loyalist and Republicans ) and level heads in Dublin, London and Brussels don’t want to be dragged into that
If Cavan and co haven’t been developed , despite multiple high profile Ministers and Tainiste, by the South, you are tripping balls thinking a UI would change things.
Ha come off it, places like Donegal ,and to a lesser extent Cavan, are barely suited to raise sheep ... very little agriculture development can be done up there .
Don’t be relying on State to always do everything for ye. Where’s the big money people setting up big Agri business ? Surely Sean Quinn would have spotted opportunity in his rather vast fiefdom of Ulster , if the Viable opportunities had existed
Industrial ? Lol. Again, come off of. Donegal actually LOST several key industries - textile, Pharmaceuticals during the boom of 1995-2005
As for tourism, anyone who went to Letterkenny during the Fleadh Ceoils of 2005 to 2006 know withstand they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery - which is odd as the night life is something they could do (before judge Zaidan) . It was bit of a disaster actually, and for some odd reason, the council refused to work with Failte Ireland to promote the thing , like every other town . Those two weekends were just a slightly bigger typical boozy weekend in Letterkenny of that time (which was actually good ) Feck all promotion of the actual cultural aspect of the festival . Just a piss up . There was and is very little to do up there bar drinking (again, night life is good ) so no surprise that they didn’t have repeat visitors thereafter
I recall vividly during the fleadhs In other towns , how local business Letterkenny lost the run of themselves. No lying, some of them genuinely believed that they’d be able to even rent out their ****ing garden fronts to campers and people would stay in tents ! (Very limited hotel rooms at the time and apartments ) In 2005 , when people have cars and notions ... I had a good few nights slagging them off about that later . For some odd reason the local central near the hospital ordered crates of bog roll ... (he swore that there’d be huge camp sites around the town )
Chip vans ordered a shed load of stock but forgot to get the special licences needed - I had pointed out to one girl that they better check that out (I’d been familiar with fleadhs elsewhere ) She normally didn’t need to do her business in the town centre itself - when these subtleties were pointed out to her and she was asked where on earth did she think was going to have hoards of people come up the road just for her chips (she had a Van near to the hospital around glen car Inn area ) she wasn’t happy ...two weeks later she’s whinging in the local papers on how the fleadh didn’t go well for her ...
Still, Donegal did better with the recent hosting of the Irish Open (golf) Likewise, they did a decent job of the car rallies back in the day
It has a long long long way to go to beat off Kerry and Galway
Donegal has its mountains and even its beaches . It’s not always freezing up there , yet , it lags behind attracting tourism for **** all reason. Hell, were it not for Wee Danny O’Donnell’s traditional annual tea party in his home area for all the biddies of Ireland .... there wouldn’t have been much going on
You don’t need a United Ireland to improve tourism . Never did ! Crap excuse
What’s up in dreary Cavan and Monaghan to attract tourism , that’s not fishing (A good reason to go to Cavan btw) , for anyone , who can go elsewhere in the country ? Feck all
Christ Longford managed to beat off other counties for that new holiday resort ... were the Cavan boys in bed ?0 -
Randy Archer wrote: »Say tired claims but it never happens (not an attack on you btw )
There will be no change , until the peace walls are taken down and SF and loyalist cop on and work for the community as a whole . Sure we have Unionists now playing silly buggers because a Shinners had their ra funeral akin to the travellers down in Limerick, while Covid is on. That will take a few weeks of gestures and fist thumping in the desk ...while ordinary people are ignored
No one likes the nordies , never mind Blighty. Yes, Westminster will push them under a bus if push comes to shove but then you have to convince Southerners if we want that **** show , we don’t , not right now
Nordies are probably going to come out of it alright. Stay within the U.K. but get some special status in the eurozone, best of both worlds . Threat of violence is real (From both loyalist and Republicans ) and level heads in Dublin, London and Brussels don’t want to be dragged into that
If Cavan and co haven’t been developed , despite multiple high profile Ministers and Tainiste, by the South, you are tripping balls thinking a UI would change things.
Ha come off it, places like Donegal ,and to a lesser extent Cavan, are barely suited to raise sheep ... very little agriculture development can be done up there .
Don’t be relying on State to always do everything for ye. Where’s the big money people setting up big Agri business ? Surely Sean Quinn would have spotted opportunity in his rather vast fiefdom of Ulster , if the Viable opportunities had existed
Industrial ? Lol. Again, come off of. Donegal actually LOST several key industries - textile, Pharmaceuticals during the boom of 1995-2005
As for tourism, anyone who went to Letterkenny during the Fleadh Ceoils of 2005 to 2006 know withstand they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery - which is odd as the night life is something they could do (before judge Zaidan) . It was bit of a disaster actually, and for some odd reason, the council refused to work with Failte Ireland to promote the thing , like every other town . Those two weekends were just a slightly bigger typical boozy weekend in Letterkenny of that time (which was actually good ) Feck all promotion of the actual cultural aspect of the festival . Just a piss up . There was and is very little to do up there bar drinking (again, night life is good ) so no surprise that they didn’t have repeat visitors thereafter
I recall vividly during the fleadhs In other towns , how local business Letterkenny lost the run of themselves. No lying, some of them genuinely believed that they’d be able to even rent out their ****ing garden fronts to campers and people would stay in tents ! (Very limited hotel rooms at the time and apartments ) In 2005 , when people have cars and notions ... I had a good few nights slagging them off about that later . For some odd reason the local central near the hospital ordered crates of bog roll ... (he swore that there’d be huge camp sites around the town )
Chip vans ordered a shed load of stock but forgot to get the special licences needed - I had pointed out to one girl that they better check that out (I’d been familiar with fleadhs elsewhere ) She normally didn’t need to do her business in the town centre itself - when these subtleties were pointed out to her and she was asked where on earth did she think was going to have hoards of people come up the road just for her chips (she had a Van near to the hospital around glen car Inn area ) she wasn’t happy ...two weeks later she’s whinging in the local papers on how the fleadh didn’t go well for her ...
Still, Donegal did better with the recent hosting of the Irish Open (golf) Likewise, they did a decent job of the car rallies back in the day
It has a long long long way to go to beat off Kerry and Galway
Donegal has its mountains and even its beaches . It’s not always freezing up there , yet , it lags behind attracting tourism for **** all reason. Hell, were it not for Wee Danny O’Donnell’s traditional annual tea party in his home area for all the biddies of Ireland .... there wouldn’t have been much going on
You don’t need a United Ireland to improve tourism . Never did ! Crap excuse
What’s up in dreary Cavan and Monaghan to attract tourism , that’s not fishing (A good reason to go to Cavan btw) , for anyone , who can go elsewhere in the country ? Feck all
Christ Longford managed to beat off other counties for that new holiday resort ... were the Cavan boys in bed ?
Just more abuse and bile Randy. It would be like trying to have a debate with one of Oliver Callan's caricatures rather than the politician he is having a swipe at.
Stereotyping is not factual portrayal.0 -
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Bishop of hope wrote: »You are basically singinging the SF songbook on this.
Their grasp of economics is suspect at best and your figures being based on that mantra are always going to favour the option you are in preference of.
Most other studies have found that a UI is economically not viable at present at least.
https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/27623
The Sinn Fein song book never got past Oooh Ahh Up the Ra0 -
No interest in a United Ireland one way or the other but open to some of the arguments here. However already this thread is evidencing the trickle of toxic thinking particular to the criminlised leadership in Northern Ireland
Have to laugh at the talk of multinationals investing. How do you think the Quinn Group investors are reporting their experiences - and thats only near the border.
If Sinn Fein were to get near power their crazy adolescent economic policies would see no multinational come near the place. And thats before the criminal underbelly is considered0 -
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Truthvader wrote: »No interest in a United Ireland one way or the other but open to some of the arguments here. However already this thread is evidencing the trickle of toxic thinking particular to the criminlised leadership in Northern Ireland
Have to laugh at the talk of multinationals investing. How do you think the Quinn Group investors are reporting their experiences - and thats only near the border.
If Sinn Fein were to get near power their crazy adolescent economic policies would see no multinational come near the place. And thats before the criminal underbelly is considered
No crime in Munster or Leinister? Big claim.
Is there a border in the world that doesn't have smuggling problems? Getting rid of a border would wipe out so much activity...it's not rocket science is it?
A lot of the problem along the border is that a blind eye is turned to smuggling...indeed it is suggested that part of the UK's Brexit solution would be to turn even more of a blind eye to it.
Look what happened in the Quinn case, a blind eye was turned to serious criminal activity for years until a man got kidnapped and savagely beaten.0
This discussion has been closed.
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