Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady · 10-07-2020 11:28PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I posted no abuse Francie, didn't stop you having a go though did it.
Kettle pot black.

I wasn't referring to you Bish about 'abuse'. See Randy's postings.

efanton · 10-07-2020 11:39PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Look ef, I'm not being anything other than discussive.
Read your own first paragraph above, you make it appear that the North is making a, profit by that statement, they collected móre taxes than the deficit?
The fact is that even after those taxes are collected there is still a 10 billion deficit, there's no dressing it up.
The hole is yours not mine.

No I am not making that claim at all.

What I am saying is that you simply cannot discuss the economy or the politics in Northern Ireland without first accepting that all budgets and most of the laws are solely the remit of the Parliament in Westminster, and that the concept of a Northern Ireland government in the true sense simply does not exist.

You have to accept that at best the northern Ireland executive is noting more than a super county council, given fixed budgets without the ability to adjust taxation or control the economy in northern Ireland as a single entity.

All tax receipts and pension contributions go directly to Westminster.
To then claim that the British government is heavily subsidising Northern Ireland by over 10 billion pound a year is simply wrong. Is there a deficit between what is collected and sub-vented and paid out in pensions, its very hard to tell because taxation and pension contributions are not collected by the Northern Ireland Executive and precise records and figure are not in the public domain. There probably is some degree of subsidy involved.
But are you telling me that the total spend in Kerry or Leitrim for instance is solely funded by the taxation collected in those counties. In every country in the world there will be areas where some degree of subsidy is normal, due to low population, lack of industry or lack of employment.

smurgen · 11-07-2020 12:00AM

Randy Archer wrote: »

Have a good look at the social welfare records for the numbers on the live register for each year ! As per usual , Donegal , Cavan, Monaghan tip of the list ...

Name the multinationals in Donegal , Cavan n Monaghan -chop chop . List the main employers not called the Quinn / Kingspan group in Donegal , Monaghan and Cavan . How much of it is civil service ? How many farmers are not on social payments ?

You know the answer but too dishonest

You haven’t bloody clue mushroom picker . You are not remotely qualified to talk economics . Not even the basics . This are facts , not abuse ! Sit down and shut up
You are a compete spoofer .

You seriously believe that the South would let the big corporations move up North ? Lol bless

You’d be laughed out of the room , in person . So don’t come on here with your pig Ignorance . You do realise that people reading this see the mentality of typical IRA apologist and SF supporters ? Keep it up, he will never be taken seriously

Prudential one of the largest insurance and financial companies in the world set up a campus in Letterkenny in 2017. 1500 employees now. I'd say you don't know much about much if we're honest?

a very cool kid · 11-07-2020 12:38AM

There are 208,000 (~11.5% of the population) public sector employees in NI with 315,000 in ROI (~6.3% of the population) - if you merged them you'd have a far higher proportion of government salaries per head in the UI than you have in ROI at the moment. This means higher taxes for the people in ROI.

Even where you get synergies between the two entities you are looking at a high proportion of the people no longer working going on social welfare etc

efanton · 11-07-2020 01:08AM

a very cool kid wrote: »

There are 208,000 (~11.5% of the population) public sector employees in NI with 315,000 in ROI (~6.3% of the population) - if you merged them you'd have a far higher proportion of government salaries per head in the UI than you have in ROI at the moment. This means higher taxes for the people in ROI.

Even where you get synergies between the two entities you are looking at a high proportion of the people no longer working going on social welfare etc

Its an argument I have often heard, and no matter what happens if a United Ireland does becomes a reality there will no doubt have to be a certain amount of trimming within the civil service. We have an Island that has two police forces, two health services, two education systems, in fact almost two of every type of public service. While the front line workers will definitely still be required much of the administration jobs will be duplicated and have to be thinned.

But having said that, I think a United Ireland would create a small economic boom in northern Ireland. With property values so low, an international airport no more than a hours drive, and short sea crossings they would be attractive to multinationals and big business. If Brexit goes totally pear shaped (very likely if Boris is still PM when a deal is possibly signed or rejected) there will be a lot of UK companies looking for a base within the EU. Northern Ireland would be more attractive than Dublin simply because we as a country have allowed Dublin to totally outgrow its infrastructural capacity.
On balance I would imagine there would be more new jobs created than jobs lost in Northern Ireland within the public services and civil service, but I accept that is only a personal opinion.

What really needs to happen first is for an Irish government to actually take the idea of a United Ireland seriously. The IDA and Enterprise Ireland have had years of experience bringing new jobs to this country. It would be a smart move by any government to actually set up a few studies as to how would you go about dealing with the issues a United Ireland would create.

Simply basing a decision on spreadsheet economics without doing the thorough and detailed studies first would be a disaster, this work needs to be started now, so that if in 5, 10, 15 years time the opportunity for a United Ireland is possible we know exactly what it will cost, how long it would take for the transition of services and government departments, and have the likes of the IDA and Enterprise Ireland geared up and ready to take on what would be a truly massive task.

Personally I think its not only possible but inevitable in the next 10 to 15 years, but its up to the Irish government to be as prepared as possible so that the transition goes as smoothly and as cheaply as possible.

a very cool kid · 11-07-2020 01:55AM

efanton wrote: »

Its an argument I have often heard, and no matter what happens if a United Ireland does becomes a reality there will no doubt have to be a certain amount of trimming within the civil service. We have an Island that has two police forces, two health services, two education systems, in fact almost two of every type of public service. While the front line workers will definitely still be required much of the administration jobs will be duplicated and have to be thinned.

But having said that, I think a United Ireland would create a small economic boom in northern Ireland. With property values so low, an international airport no more than a hours drive, and short sea crossings they would be attractive to multinationals and big business. If Brexit goes totally pear shaped (very likely if Boris is still PM when a deal is possibly signed or rejected) there will be a lot of UK companies looking for a base within the EU. Northern Ireland would be more attractive than Dublin simply because we as a country have allowed Dublin to totally outgrow its infrastructural capacity.
On balance I would imagine there would be more new jobs created than jobs lost in Northern Ireland within the public services and civil service, but I accept that is only a personal opinion.

What really needs to happen first is for an Irish government to actually take the idea of a United Ireland seriously. The IDA and Enterprise Ireland have had years of experience bringing new jobs to this country. It would be a smart move by any government to actually set up a few studies as to how would you go about dealing with the issues a United Ireland would create.

Simply basing a decision on spreadsheet economics without doing the thorough and detailed studies first would be a disaster, this work needs to be started now, so that if in 5, 10, 15 years time the opportunity for a United Ireland is possible we know exactly what it will cost, how long it would take for the transition of services and government departments, and have the likes of the IDA and Enterprise Ireland geared up and ready to take on what would be a truly massive task.

Personally I think its not only possible but inevitable in the next 10 to 15 years, but its up to the Irish government to be as prepared as possible so that the transition goes as smoothly and as cheaply as possible.

On the trimming thing - it's likely the synergy redundancies would be applied to people who come out of workforce and straight into social welfare - think mainly natural attrition - early retirement mainly, unions will not allow a pile of up front redundancies (remember the HSE when former has none for merged admin roles).

On things being cheap - on the wrong side of Brexit and with a currency change inflation would be rampant up there. The workforce is not quite as attractive as in ROI (less educated generally, less integrated with US Corp culture for a start. You need to remember it took about 20 years of trying to get the multinational sector to take off with high end jobs in the ROI - It would be similar up there.

On pensions I'm a little lost. ROI pays pensions in a pay as you go basis - is the UK not the same? We would still be liable for these to be fuded/pair one way or another?

Bishop of hope · 11-07-2020 07:59AM

efanton wrote: »

Its an argument I have often heard, and no matter what happens if a United Ireland does becomes a reality there will no doubt have to be a certain amount of trimming within the civil service. We have an Island that has two police forces, two health services, two education systems, in fact almost two of every type of public service. While the front line workers will definitely still be required much of the administration jobs will be duplicated and have to be thinned.

But having said that, I think a United Ireland would create a small economic boom in northern Ireland. With property values so low, an international airport no more than a hours drive, and short sea crossings they would be attractive to multinationals and big business. If Brexit goes totally pear shaped (very likely if Boris is still PM when a deal is possibly signed or rejected) there will be a lot of UK companies looking for a base within the EU. Northern Ireland would be more attractive than Dublin simply because we as a country have allowed Dublin to totally outgrow its infrastructural capacity.
On balance I would imagine there would be more new jobs created than jobs lost in Northern Ireland within the public services and civil service, but I accept that is only a personal opinion.

What really needs to happen first is for an Irish government to actually take the idea of a United Ireland seriously. The IDA and Enterprise Ireland have had years of experience bringing new jobs to this country. It would be a smart move by any government to actually set up a few studies as to how would you go about dealing with the issues a United Ireland would create.

Simply basing a decision on spreadsheet economics without doing the thorough and detailed studies first would be a disaster, this work needs to be started now, so that if in 5, 10, 15 years time the opportunity for a United Ireland is possible we know exactly what it will cost, how long it would take for the transition of services and government departments, and have the likes of the IDA and Enterprise Ireland geared up and ready to take on what would be a truly massive task.

Personally I think its not only possible but inevitable in the next 10 to 15 years, but its up to the Irish government to be as prepared as possible so that the transition goes as smoothly and as cheaply as possible.

I don't see any of that happening in the short term myself.
The sectarian divide would still be there, the volatility within the two communities.
I can't see too many wanting to invest in property in a race and religion dominated area.
None of that will dissappear in the short term, in fact it will probably worsen.
The IDA, have you looked around Ireland South lately?
Outside of the capital there is fcuk all happening and given the corporates who are already here, who do you think will come and invest or even move their business north of the border anyway.
Then take brexit on board and the amount of business that NI does with mainland UK, how much would that be affected by being back in the EU.

Randy Archer · 11-07-2020 08:52AM

smurgen wrote: »

Prudential one of the largest insurance and financial companies in the world set up a campus in Letterkenny in 2017. 1500 employees now. I'd say you don't know much about much if we're honest?

Letterkenny is a town with a population of just under 20,000 , more when you include the rural areas immediately surrounding it

1500 employees vs a potential workforce of over 10,000 - oh yeah, that’s really going to cut down the current numbers of the live registrar

Prudential , lol, oh dear of dear .... you are assuming locals will be getting the key jobs lol. Much of Letterkenny IT population was always from outside Donegal too .

Relying on a pension - insurance company with the recession that’s coming ? STOP EMBARRASSING YOURSELF FFS

You saw what happened when Quinn Insurance went bang to Cavan n Monaghan , sure some locals picked up paramilitary and kidnapping as a hobby

Not much use to nearby Ballyboefy , Gweedore, Donegal Town, Dunloe , Inishowen and Glenties .... etc etc

Actually, the so called Celtic tiger more or less passed by Donegal. The county was an unemployment black spot even then !! In fact between 2003-2005 Letterkenny had LOST its then main private employer - a pharmaceutical group , (near the hospital ) that rivalled the likes of Elan ,down South. Fruit of the Loom up the county went bust .. in 2004 , the height of the boom a mail order company Eargail closed down

The 2016 census showed that the unemployment rate in Donegal was 18%, 5% ABOVE the national average . It had the second highest unemployment rate at this time, and this is a common trend over the decades

As of the second week of April this year, the numbers unemployed, including those on Covid Payments was 16.5%

I’d say , you worry about sticking to stuff that you know what you are talking about rather than what others do, you will be made look extremely thick . Donegal is going to need a hell of a lot more than an insurance company in Letterkenny ....

Lol

Pkiernan · 11-07-2020 08:55AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes I have.

So shouldn't some IRA members be charged with war crimes?

Randy Archer · 11-07-2020 08:55AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wasn't referring to you Bish about 'abuse'. See Randy's postings.

Learn the difference between facts and abuse . I stand by what I said because it is the truth . You need start learning to stay within your level, granted it’s not much, but you offer zero contribution being dishonest and living in la la land . Less talking, more listening

Especially so, when you are an apologist for the IRA and SF

Randy Archer · 11-07-2020 09:03AM

a very cool kid wrote: »

There are 208,000 (~11.5% of the population) public sector employees in NI with 315,000 in ROI (~6.3% of the population) - if you merged them you'd have a far higher proportion of government salaries per head in the UI than you have in ROI at the moment. This means higher taxes for the people in ROI.

Even where you get synergies between the two entities you are looking at a high proportion of the people no longer working going on social welfare etc

The public sector will need to be cut down if a UI happens. !

It’s not viable to have so many on the island, doing essentially the same work . When that hits home, we will see how enthusiastic Betty and John, life long pen pusher For various State agencies , north and South, are about a UI , when their jobs are on the line

Nordies will get hit hard, but at the same time, Nordies might get some concessions, which in turn will lead to resentment from the “fix the road brigade down South”

There is already way too much of the work force in the public sector

Same when it comes to county councils and the previous Dáil seats

Edgware · 11-07-2020 09:20AM

Randy Archer wrote: »

When the North actually gets its house in order, which will be never, and UI is seriously considered (deep down way down the priority of most Southerners ) the South will dictate what happens on this island . No one is going to tolerate northerners telling the country what to do . We don’t need them , they need us

We’d be nuts to take over the North right now, true. Crazy, we have our own problems

In the meantime , let the north actually learn to work without the religion and nationality divide . Peace walls still stand in Belfast . Why ?

Change is coming. Brexit will hit home and show the North what Westminster and the little Britains think of them. Likewise in Scotland unless the economy there stands up to the demands that Brexit will bring in. Cavan Monaghan Donegal havent been able to develop their full agricultural, industrial and tourism potential because of partition and the same can be said for South Armagh Tyrone Fermanagh.
This talk about "southerners vs northerners" is overblown. In a united Ireland the Northern bloc of Deputies will be strong enough to withstand any chance of neglect by the rest. The natural hinterland for Donegal is Derry and the traditional province of Ulster (9 counties) will be as influential as the West or Rural Alliance groups. Daisy Hill, Altnagelvin and the Belfast Hospitals will be all part of a greater health service nationwide. I certainly believe that there are adequate resources in Ireland to support a single state but there are still a lot of compromises to be made from both sides.

Randy Archer · 11-07-2020 10:05AM

Edgware wrote: »

Change is coming. Brexit will hit home and show the North what Westminster and the little Britains think of them. Likewise in Scotland unless the economy there stands up to the demands that Brexit will bring in. Cavan Monaghan Donegal havent been able to develop their full agricultural, industrial and tourism potential because of partition and the same can be said for South Armagh Tyrone Fermanagh.
This talk about "southerners vs northerners" is overblown. In a united Ireland the Northern bloc of Deputies will be strong enough to withstand any chance of neglect by the rest. The natural hinterland for Donegal is Derry and the traditional province of Ulster (9 counties) will be as influential as the West or Rural Alliance groups. Daisy Hill, Altnagelvin and the Belfast Hospitals will be all part of a greater health service nationwide. I certainly believe that there are adequate resources in Ireland to support a single state but there are still a lot of compromises to be made from both sides.

Say tired claims but it never happens (not an attack on you btw )

There will be no change , until the peace walls are taken down and SF and loyalist cop on and work for the community as a whole . Sure we have Unionists now playing silly buggers because a Shinners had their ra funeral akin to the travellers down in Limerick, while Covid is on. That will take a few weeks of gestures and fist thumping in the desk ...while ordinary people are ignored

No one likes the nordies , never mind Blighty. Yes, Westminster will push them under a bus if push comes to shove but then you have to convince Southerners if we want that **** show , we don’t , not right now

Nordies are probably going to come out of it alright. Stay within the U.K. but get some special status in the eurozone, best of both worlds . Threat of violence is real (From both loyalist and Republicans ) and level heads in Dublin, London and Brussels don’t want to be dragged into that

If Cavan and co haven’t been developed , despite multiple high profile Ministers and Tainiste, by the South, you are tripping balls thinking a UI would change things.

Ha come off it, places like Donegal ,and to a lesser extent Cavan, are barely suited to raise sheep ... very little agriculture development can be done up there .

Don’t be relying on State to always do everything for ye. Where’s the big money people setting up big Agri business ? Surely Sean Quinn would have spotted opportunity in his rather vast fiefdom of Ulster , if the Viable opportunities had existed

Industrial ? Lol. Again, come off of. Donegal actually LOST several key industries - textile, Pharmaceuticals during the boom of 1995-2005

As for tourism, anyone who went to Letterkenny during the Fleadh Ceoils of 2005 to 2006 know withstand they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery - which is odd as the night life is something they could do (before judge Zaidan) . It was bit of a disaster actually, and for some odd reason, the council refused to work with Failte Ireland to promote the thing , like every other town . Those two weekends were just a slightly bigger typical boozy weekend in Letterkenny of that time (which was actually good ) Feck all promotion of the actual cultural aspect of the festival . Just a piss up . There was and is very little to do up there bar drinking (again, night life is good ) so no surprise that they didn’t have repeat visitors thereafter

I recall vividly during the fleadhs In other towns , how local business Letterkenny lost the run of themselves. No lying, some of them genuinely believed that they’d be able to even rent out their ****ing garden fronts to campers and people would stay in tents ! (Very limited hotel rooms at the time and apartments ) In 2005 , when people have cars and notions ... I had a good few nights slagging them off about that later . For some odd reason the local central near the hospital ordered crates of bog roll ... (he swore that there’d be huge camp sites around the town )

Chip vans ordered a shed load of stock but forgot to get the special licences needed - I had pointed out to one girl that they better check that out (I’d been familiar with fleadhs elsewhere ) She normally didn’t need to do her business in the town centre itself - when these subtleties were pointed out to her and she was asked where on earth did she think was going to have hoards of people come up the road just for her chips (she had a Van near to the hospital around glen car Inn area ) she wasn’t happy ...two weeks later she’s whinging in the local papers on how the fleadh didn’t go well for her ...

Still, Donegal did better with the recent hosting of the Irish Open (golf) Likewise, they did a decent job of the car rallies back in the day

It has a long long long way to go to beat off Kerry and Galway

Donegal has its mountains and even its beaches . It’s not always freezing up there , yet , it lags behind attracting tourism for **** all reason. Hell, were it not for Wee Danny O’Donnell’s traditional annual tea party in his home area for all the biddies of Ireland .... there wouldn’t have been much going on

You don’t need a United Ireland to improve tourism . Never did ! Crap excuse

What’s up in dreary Cavan and Monaghan to attract tourism , that’s not fishing (A good reason to go to Cavan btw) , for anyone , who can go elsewhere in the country ? Feck all

Christ Longford managed to beat off other counties for that new holiday resort ... were the Cavan boys in bed ?

FrancieBrady · 11-07-2020 10:39AM

Randy Archer wrote: »

Say tired claims but it never happens (not an attack on you btw )

There will be no change , until the peace walls are taken down and SF and loyalist cop on and work for the community as a whole . Sure we have Unionists now playing silly buggers because a Shinners had their ra funeral akin to the travellers down in Limerick, while Covid is on. That will take a few weeks of gestures and fist thumping in the desk ...while ordinary people are ignored

No one likes the nordies , never mind Blighty. Yes, Westminster will push them under a bus if push comes to shove but then you have to convince Southerners if we want that **** show , we don’t , not right now

Nordies are probably going to come out of it alright. Stay within the U.K. but get some special status in the eurozone, best of both worlds . Threat of violence is real (From both loyalist and Republicans ) and level heads in Dublin, London and Brussels don’t want to be dragged into that

If Cavan and co haven’t been developed , despite multiple high profile Ministers and Tainiste, by the South, you are tripping balls thinking a UI would change things.

Ha come off it, places like Donegal ,and to a lesser extent Cavan, are barely suited to raise sheep ... very little agriculture development can be done up there .

Don’t be relying on State to always do everything for ye. Where’s the big money people setting up big Agri business ? Surely Sean Quinn would have spotted opportunity in his rather vast fiefdom of Ulster , if the Viable opportunities had existed

Industrial ? Lol. Again, come off of. Donegal actually LOST several key industries - textile, Pharmaceuticals during the boom of 1995-2005

As for tourism, anyone who went to Letterkenny during the Fleadh Ceoils of 2005 to 2006 know withstand they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery - which is odd as the night life is something they could do (before judge Zaidan) . It was bit of a disaster actually, and for some odd reason, the council refused to work with Failte Ireland to promote the thing , like every other town . Those two weekends were just a slightly bigger typical boozy weekend in Letterkenny of that time (which was actually good ) Feck all promotion of the actual cultural aspect of the festival . Just a piss up . There was and is very little to do up there bar drinking (again, night life is good ) so no surprise that they didn’t have repeat visitors thereafter

I recall vividly during the fleadhs In other towns , how local business Letterkenny lost the run of themselves. No lying, some of them genuinely believed that they’d be able to even rent out their ****ing garden fronts to campers and people would stay in tents ! (Very limited hotel rooms at the time and apartments ) In 2005 , when people have cars and notions ... I had a good few nights slagging them off about that later . For some odd reason the local central near the hospital ordered crates of bog roll ... (he swore that there’d be huge camp sites around the town )

Chip vans ordered a shed load of stock but forgot to get the special licences needed - I had pointed out to one girl that they better check that out (I’d been familiar with fleadhs elsewhere ) She normally didn’t need to do her business in the town centre itself - when these subtleties were pointed out to her and she was asked where on earth did she think was going to have hoards of people come up the road just for her chips (she had a Van near to the hospital around glen car Inn area ) she wasn’t happy ...two weeks later she’s whinging in the local papers on how the fleadh didn’t go well for her ...

Still, Donegal did better with the recent hosting of the Irish Open (golf) Likewise, they did a decent job of the car rallies back in the day

It has a long long long way to go to beat off Kerry and Galway

Donegal has its mountains and even its beaches . It’s not always freezing up there , yet , it lags behind attracting tourism for **** all reason. Hell, were it not for Wee Danny O’Donnell’s traditional annual tea party in his home area for all the biddies of Ireland .... there wouldn’t have been much going on

You don’t need a United Ireland to improve tourism . Never did ! Crap excuse

What’s up in dreary Cavan and Monaghan to attract tourism , that’s not fishing (A good reason to go to Cavan btw) , for anyone , who can go elsewhere in the country ? Feck all

Christ Longford managed to beat off other counties for that new holiday resort ... were the Cavan boys in bed ?

Just more abuse and bile Randy. It would be like trying to have a debate with one of Oliver Callan's caricatures rather than the politician he is having a swipe at.

Stereotyping is not factual portrayal.

FrancieBrady · 11-07-2020 10:41AM

Pkiernan wrote: »

So shouldn't some IRA members be charged with war crimes?

If they committed them, yes.

Truthvader · 11-07-2020 11:05AM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

You are basically singinging the SF songbook on this.
Their grasp of economics is suspect at best and your figures being based on that mantra are always going to favour the option you are in preference of.
Most other studies have found that a UI is economically not viable at present at least.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/27623

The Sinn Fein song book never got past Oooh Ahh Up the Ra

Truthvader · 11-07-2020 11:38AM

No interest in a United Ireland one way or the other but open to some of the arguments here. However already this thread is evidencing the trickle of toxic thinking particular to the criminlised leadership in Northern Ireland

Have to laugh at the talk of multinationals investing. How do you think the Quinn Group investors are reporting their experiences - and thats only near the border.

If Sinn Fein were to get near power their crazy adolescent economic policies would see no multinational come near the place. And thats before the criminal underbelly is considered

Truthvader · 11-07-2020 11:39AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If they committed them, yes.

They did nothing else

FrancieBrady · 11-07-2020 11:46AM

Truthvader wrote: »

No interest in a United Ireland one way or the other but open to some of the arguments here. However already this thread is evidencing the trickle of toxic thinking particular to the criminlised leadership in Northern Ireland

Have to laugh at the talk of multinationals investing. How do you think the Quinn Group investors are reporting their experiences - and thats only near the border.

If Sinn Fein were to get near power their crazy adolescent economic policies would see no multinational come near the place. And thats before the criminal underbelly is considered

No crime in Munster or Leinister? Big claim.

Is there a border in the world that doesn't have smuggling problems? Getting rid of a border would wipe out so much activity...it's not rocket science is it?

A lot of the problem along the border is that a blind eye is turned to smuggling...indeed it is suggested that part of the UK's Brexit solution would be to turn even more of a blind eye to it.

Look what happened in the Quinn case, a blind eye was turned to serious criminal activity for years until a man got kidnapped and savagely beaten.

Truthvader · 11-07-2020 11:52AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No crime in Munster or Leinister? Big claim.

Is there a border in the world that doesn't have smuggling problems? Getting rid of a border would wipe out so much activity...it's not rocket science is it?

A lot of the problem along the border is that a blind eye is turned to smuggling...indeed it is suggested that part of the UK's Brexit solution would be to turn even more of a blind eye to it.

Look what happened in the Quinn case, a blind eye was turned to serious criminal activity for years until a man got kidnapped and savagely beaten.

Maybe the Quinn thugs thought they were "soldiers" so you shoukd be OK with that - or is it only a war if Uncle Gerry says it is

FrancieBrady · 11-07-2020 12:09PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Maybe the Quinn thugs thought they were "soldiers" so you shoukd be OK with that - or is it only a war if Uncle Gerry says it is

Are you capable of debate or is it just a vehicle for snide inaccurate commentary?

I was never 'ok' with the conflict/war here. Nether the cause or the acts carried out during it.

Truthvader · 11-07-2020 12:23PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you capable of debate or is it just a vehicle for snide inaccurate commentary?

I was never 'ok' with the conflict/war here. Nether the cause or the acts carried out during it.

OK genuinely surprised by this. Had thought you were dedicated Sinn Fein IRA supporter and cheerleader. Must be confusing you . Aplogies

Randy Archer · 11-07-2020 01:56PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just more abuse and bile Randy. It would be like trying to have a debate with one of Oliver Callan's caricatures rather than the politician he is having a swipe at.

Stereotyping is not factual portrayal.

Jog on Francie , stop crying . These are facts. You just have a huge problem with facts and reality

It’s people like you and your mentality, is why your county of Monaghan is a kip . Total denial of everything

Debate ? What would you know about that ? You barely can spell the word “fact” never mind knowing what the word means

Ya really haven’t a clue

Having no “swipe” at politicians actually , if you could read . It clearly argues that the people of said counties, the private sector , are sitting in their holes and doing nothing, all expecting the government to do it for ya .

Randy Archer · 11-07-2020 02:04PM

Truthvader wrote: »

No interest in a United Ireland one way or the other but open to some of the arguments here. However already this thread is evidencing the trickle of toxic thinking particular to the criminlised leadership in Northern Ireland

Have to laugh at the talk of multinationals investing. How do you think the Quinn Group investors are reporting their experiences - and thats only near the border.

If Sinn Fein were to get near power their crazy adolescent economic policies would see no multinational come near the place. And thats before the criminal underbelly is considered

Sure the Irish stock market has a **** attacked the Monday after the elections. Why ? Mary Lou, that’ a Sunday evening, when the results were clear ; that ff or FG would be part of Any future government - wee Mary lost the run of herself claiming that she would seek for form government without either - despite numbers being clear that this was not possible and the independents were mostly more FF/FG inclined than the looney left

Randy Archer · 11-07-2020 02:23PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No crime in Munster or Leinister? Big claim.

Is there a border in the world that doesn't have smuggling problems? Getting rid of a border would wipe out so much activity...it's not rocket science is it?

A lot of the problem along the border is that a blind eye is turned to smuggling...indeed it is suggested that part of the UK's Brexit solution would be to turn even more of a blind eye to it.

Look what happened in the Quinn case, a blind eye was turned to serious criminal activity for years until a man got kidnapped and savagely beaten.

What criminal gangs are attacking members of companies in Leinster or Munster ?

Even by your piss poor standards, that whataboutery is pretty weak

Smuggling ? We are talking about locals acting like paramilitary kidnapping members of boards of companies that came in to ensure the company doesn’t fall, because your hero ****ed **** up. Who were they Francie ? Know any of the cowboys ?

Blind eye ? that would be the locals, on both sides of the border loyal to the Quinn family. Funny, that wee Sean junior was happy with the border to dodge arrest by Southern authorities when it suited

Blaming the border for that ? Lol, leave it out !

Girls on Moore St never needed much borders to sell their dodgy cigarettes

Getting rid of the border ha ha ha . Oh dear . Criminal gangs don’t worry about borders. Kinahan and do have no problem smuggling in drugs by the sea . They don’t go around kidnapping business men though

Foreign investors watch what happened with the Quinn group and go “**** that” It’s you and your pals talking about how I would get more investment in a UI . You trying to suggest that in the space of 3 hours , the PSNI And Gardai Had any reason that a crime was being committed (kidnap of a businessman ) and wouldn’t respond Or try ? That a border was the reason ?

You can go back to crying about being abused now , you are done

FrancieBrady · 11-07-2020 02:35PM

Randy Archer wrote: »

What criminal gangs are attacking members of companies in Leinster or Munster ?

Even by your piss poor standards, that whataboutery is pretty weak

Smuggling ? We are talking about locals acting like paramilitary kidnapping members of boards of companies that came in to ensure the company doesn’t fall, because your hero ****ed **** up. Who were they Francie ? Know any of the cowboys ?

Blind eye ? that would be the locals, on both sides of the border loyal to the Quinn family. Funny, that wee Sean junior was happy with the border to dodge arrest by Southern authorities when it suited

Blaming the border for that ? Lol, leave it out !

Girls on Moore St never needed much borders to sell their dodgy cigarettes

Getting rid of the border ha ha ha . Oh dear . Criminal gangs don’t worry about borders. Kinahan and do have no problem smuggling in drugs by the sea . They don’t go around kidnapping business men though

Foreign investors watch what happened with the Quinn group and go “**** that” It’s you and your pals talking about how I would get more investment in a UI . You trying to suggest that in the space of 3 hours , the PSNI And Gardai Had any reason that a crime was being committed (kidnap of a businessman ) and wouldn’t respond Or try ? That a border was the reason ?

You can go back to crying about being abused now , you are done

The Gardai didn't make an arrest in 8 years of crimes and intimidation in the Quinn case. FACT

If I were an investor I'd be asking why has the area been abandoned by the enforcers of the law?

You also make my point for me...'is there no crime elsewhere in the country' by mentioning the Kinahan's. There are also, major crime gangs elsewhere in the country, it isn't just a border phenomenon and never has been.

Try and stay in the realms of fact and reality Randy.

efanton · 11-07-2020 03:55PM

a very cool kid wrote: »

On the trimming thing - it's likely the synergy redundancies would be applied to people who come out of workforce and straight into social welfare - think mainly natural attrition - early retirement mainly, unions will not allow a pile of up front redundancies (remember the HSE when former has none for merged admin roles).

On things being cheap - on the wrong side of Brexit and with a currency change inflation would be rampant up there. The workforce is not quite as attractive as in ROI (less educated generally, less integrated with US Corp culture for a start. You need to remember it took about 20 years of trying to get the multinational sector to take off with high end jobs in the ROI - It would be similar up there.

On pensions I'm a little lost. ROI pays pensions in a pay as you go basis - is the UK not the same? We would still be liable for these to be fuded/pair one way or another?

Pensions as stated in my original post should not be a problem at all. The British government has collected pension contributions for decades.
They would have basically three choices.
1. They transfer the pension reserves they have previously collected from Northern Ireland to the Irish government,
2. they make a yearly contribution to the Irish government commensurate withe the contributions they have previously collected and according to the number of people who were already retired when a United Ireland came into being,
3. or they simply decide that they will hold on to these funds and continue paying pensions for those that were on a pension before a United Ireland came into being.

Currency exchange issues?
You do realise in a United Ireland there would be a single currency.

I think you are trying to create problems that simply will not be there.

The biggest issue that is unknown is how much would the actual transition of services and absorption of the various government departments in Northern Ireland cost. No doubt there will be substantial funding from the EU and UK for this, but I would imagine there still going to be a very hefty cost for the Irish government. Having said that the transition will take years to take effect, so any cost although great would be spread over a long period.

Truthvader · 11-07-2020 04:45PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Gardai didn't make an arrest in 8 years of crimes and intimidation in the Quinn case. FACT

If I were an investor I'd be asking why has the area been abandoned by the enforcers of the law?

You also make my point for me...'is there no crime elsewhere in the country' by mentioning the Kinahan's. There are also, major crime gangs elsewhere in the country, it isn't just a border phenomenon and never has been.

Try and stay in the realms of fact and reality Randy.

Truth is the state on both sides of the border had to turn a blind eye to criminal elements on both sides and abadonned working class areas to the local hard men on both sides. Plus had to release Gerry McCabes killers and pretend the Mexicans robbed the Northern Bank. The price of peace. The Kevin Lunney thing was just part of the hidden cost nice professional people rarely have to pay

Edgware · 11-07-2020 05:10PM

Randy Archer wrote: »

Say tired claims but it never happens (not an attack on you btw )

There will be no change , until the peace walls are taken down and SF and loyalist cop on and work for the community as a whole . Sure we have Unionists now playing silly buggers because a Shinners had their ra funeral akin to the travellers down in Limerick, while Covid is on. That will take a few weeks of gestures and fist thumping in the desk ...while ordinary people are ignored

No one likes the nordies , never mind Blighty. Yes, Westminster will push them under a bus if push comes to shove but then you have to convince Southerners if we want that **** show , we don’t , not right now

Nordies are probably going to come out of it alright. Stay within the U.K. but get some special status in the eurozone, best of both worlds . Threat of violence is real (From both loyalist and Republicans ) and level heads in Dublin, London and Brussels don’t want to be dragged into that

If Cavan and co haven’t been developed , despite multiple high profile Ministers and Tainiste, by the South, you are tripping balls thinking a UI would change things.

Ha come off it, places like Donegal ,and to a lesser extent Cavan, are barely suited to raise sheep ... very little agriculture development can be done up there .

Don’t be relying on State to always do everything for ye. Where’s the big money people setting up big Agri business ? Surely Sean Quinn would have spotted opportunity in his rather vast fiefdom of Ulster , if the Viable opportunities had existed

Industrial ? Lol. Again, come off of. Donegal actually LOST several key industries - textile, Pharmaceuticals during the boom of 1995-2005

As for tourism, anyone who went to Letterkenny during the Fleadh Ceoils of 2005 to 2006 know withstand they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery - which is odd as the night life is something they could do (before judge Zaidan) . It was bit of a disaster actually, and for some odd reason, the council refused to work with Failte Ireland to promote the thing , like every other town . Those two weekends were just a slightly bigger typical boozy weekend in Letterkenny of that time (which was actually good ) Feck all promotion of the actual cultural aspect of the festival . Just a piss up . There was and is very little to do up there bar drinking (again, night life is good ) so no surprise that they didn’t have repeat visitors thereafter

I recall vividly during the fleadhs In other towns , how local business Letterkenny lost the run of themselves. No lying, some of them genuinely believed that they’d be able to even rent out their ****ing garden fronts to campers and people would stay in tents ! (Very limited hotel rooms at the time and apartments ) In 2005 , when people have cars and notions ... I had a good few nights slagging them off about that later . For some odd reason the local central near the hospital ordered crates of bog roll ... (he swore that there’d be huge camp sites around the town )

Chip vans ordered a shed load of stock but forgot to get the special licences needed - I had pointed out to one girl that they better check that out (I’d been familiar with fleadhs elsewhere ) She normally didn’t need to do her business in the town centre itself - when these subtleties were pointed out to her and she was asked where on earth did she think was going to have hoards of people come up the road just for her chips (she had a Van near to the hospital around glen car Inn area ) she wasn’t happy ...two weeks later she’s whinging in the local papers on how the fleadh didn’t go well for her ...

Still, Donegal did better with the recent hosting of the Irish Open (golf) Likewise, they did a decent job of the car rallies back in the day

It has a long long long way to go to beat off Kerry and Galway

Donegal has its mountains and even its beaches . It’s not always freezing up there , yet , it lags behind attracting tourism for **** all reason. Hell, were it not for Wee Danny O’Donnell’s traditional annual tea party in his home area for all the biddies of Ireland .... there wouldn’t have been much going on

You don’t need a United Ireland to improve tourism . Never did ! Crap excuse

What’s up in dreary Cavan and Monaghan to attract tourism , that’s not fishing (A good reason to go to Cavan btw) , for anyone , who can go elsewhere in the country ? Feck all

Christ Longford managed to beat off other counties for that new holiday resort ... were the Cavan boys in bed ?

I cant recall the referendum you organised to establish the views of the Southerners but all I can see from you is a complete lack of vision and initiative.

FrancieBrady · 11-07-2020 05:27PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Truth is the state on both sides of the border had to turn a blind eye to criminal elements on both sides and abadonned working class areas to the local hard men on both sides. Plus had to release Gerry McCabes killers and pretend the Mexicans robbed the Northern Bank. The price of peace. The Kevin Lunney thing was just part of the hidden cost nice professional people rarely have to pay

This 'abandonment' thing is a myth. The area (I live in it) is policed like all other areas of the state. It's not bandit country or lawless like those under pressure to explain like to claim.

The security forces of the state paid no attention to certain criminal activities but had no problem going after other ex IRA people who had turned to crime. The 'price of peace' didn't come into it then.

Why that was and why it happened in divisions of the Gardai that have other issues of national significance is still open to speculation.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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