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Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

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    #512
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,454 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    not being smart but because loads of PPE needs to go from Asia to Ireland is not really going to make AerLingus think passengers will be chomping at the bit to go there. It’s not as if they never heard of Seoul or Beijing before, they just make more money going west.

    Aye but they are surely building some relationships along the way.

    There is a market for Asia in Ireland as well.

    I'm all for more routes to North America, I'd like to see them look at far east destinations in the future when this has blown over.


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    #513
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Its unlikely we will see PEK or ICN on the departure board in Dublin anytime soon with any carrier

    But EI ops are gathering a lot of route data, fuel, etc. Being part of IAG helps as EI is using the ground handlers BA have in place, again keeps things simple and costs down.

    Flying over Russia and China isn't the same due the metric hangover so flight levels are not normal.

    Hopefully EI crews can actually stay overnight in Seoul and avoid the nasty out and back routine


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    #514
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Aye but they are surely building some relationships along the way.

    There is a market for Asia in Ireland as well.

    I'm all for more routes to North America, I'd like to see them look at far east destinations in the future when this has blown over.

    Eggs in one basket does unfortunately ring true. We are in a global pandemic but I think most business heavily reliant on US custom will be examining their exposure to the market post this whenever that is.
    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Hopefully EI crews can actually stay overnight in Seoul and avoid the nasty out and back routine

    It's being planned at the moment same as PEK.


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    #515
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,849 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Its unlikely we will see PEK or ICN on the departure board in Dublin anytime soon with any carrier

    But EI ops are gathering a lot of route data, fuel, etc. Being part of IAG helps as EI is using the ground handlers BA have in place, again keeps things simple and costs down.

    Flying over Russia and China isn't the same due the metric hangover so flight levels are not normal.

    Hopefully EI crews can actually stay overnight in Seoul and avoid the nasty out and back routine

    Given the current situation would crew rather stay in Seoul or get home ASAP in business class seats albeit 24 odd hours in the same plane?


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    #516
    sherology
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭sherology


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    Given the current situation would crew rather stay in Seoul or get home ASAP in business class seats albeit 24 odd hours in the same plane?

    No bed like your own bed... Good to hear EI got the Incheon contract... Was wondering what was happening with PPE... Some bit of money coming in and aircraft being kept rolling.

    Do we know what EI frames will be retired or returned to lessor yet in a smaller EI? Do we think they'll accept more LRs - they're late so might be easy to cancel - or keep it at 4 and wait for the directly-ordered XLRs (as they own about 6 new/newish a330-300s and have 4 LRs so that should be enough for the next year or two)?


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    #517
    duskyjoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭duskyjoe


    goingnowhere wrote: »

    Flying over Russia and China isn't the same due the metric hangover so flight levels are not normal.

    Small correction....over Russia, one flies at Flight Levels in Feet at the upper altitudes. Mongolia, China etc Flight Levels in metric for all altitudes.


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    #518
    HTCOne
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭HTCOne


    In a less global crisis, it might make sense to flog some of the older 330s, but in the current climate, who would buy them? And when buyers do return to the market, they’ll be spoiled for choice with low cycle airframes due all the airlines going under, and the lessors will be desperate to place their aircraft with someone. There’l be HGW 330s (maybe even NEOs), 320 NEOs, 787s, 777s, maybe even A350s available for a song, so in this situation it probably makes most sense to fly the -200s and any surplus -300s (maybe those needing a heavy C or D check this winter, there’s a lot of overlap with works required to bring frames out of mothball) down to spain and putting them in deep storage for a couple of years.

    I read a few pages back LAX and GEY are being scrapped, LAX makes sense it is an old, high cycle frame, GEY is not in that boat. DAA is almost as old as LAX, I’d have thought that a more likely candidate. EWR is already gone, DUO I believe is leased.


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    #519
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    LAX is the oldest, it took a few knocks over the years and there was a decision to be made in 2020 as to invest or scrap. Pity as LAX was probably the most reliable in the fleet.

    EI own LAX, GEY is leased. So I'd expect LAX will be scrapped and EI will either take the cash or take the parts.


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    #520
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 917 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    The A220 is a lovely plane. At least the Swiss one I was on was. How is it on efficiency?


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    #521
    HTCOne
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭HTCOne


    MickeyLeari wrote: »
    The A220 is a lovely plane. At least the Swiss one I was on was. How is it on efficiency?

    Supposed to be incredibly efficient but has no cross commonality with other Airbus products (because Bombardier designed it obviously). There’ll be so many cheap, barely used CEOs and NEOs available second hand in the coming years, it might actually work out cheaper to fly a 60 or 70 odd % full 320 series around than a full new build 220 series.


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    #522
    California Dreamer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    MickeyLeari wrote: »
    The A220 is a lovely plane. At least the Swiss one I was on was. How is it on efficiency?

    Are EI getting them for their fleet? :rolleyes:


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    #523
    Kcormahs
    Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭Kcormahs


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    LAX is the oldest, it took a few knocks over the years and there was a decision to be made in 2020 as to invest or scrap. Pity as LAX was probably the most reliable in the fleet.

    EI own LAX, GEY is leased. So I'd expect LAX will be scrapped and EI will either take the cash or take the parts.


    So, if EWR is gone. EI-GEY being scrapped.... possible LAX...
    Aer Lingus got in 2020 EIN - EIM - EIK (is this last one already in the fleet?)
    ...
    that means 3 for 3? The fleet is just at the same level? if ei-DAA goes, it means a330 fleet will be minus one compared to summer 2019? or more a330s due to go?


    Whats the story with the a320s and 321ceo, any plans of any of those birds leaving the fleet?


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    #524
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Kcormahs wrote: »
    So, if EWR is gone. EI-GEY being scrapped.... possible LAX...
    Aer Lingus got in 2020 EIN - EIM - EIK (is this last one already in the fleet?)
    ...
    that means 3 for 3? The fleet is just at the same level? if ei-DAA goes, it means a330 fleet will be minus one compared to summer 2019? or more a330s due to go?


    Whats the story with the a320s and 321ceo, any plans of any of those birds leaving the fleet?

    EI appears to have not signed to accept EI-EIK so avoided being stuck with it. Given the state of the US it looks like a fleet of 6 would be enough going forward BOS/JFK/ORD/SFO + YYZ

    EI-CVx and EI-CPx are still in the fleet. The A321's are getting old and might get dumped as the NEO's come in but they are a great and efficient short haul aircraft within near Europe

    EI used to own everything outright so the early A32x are owned outright so there is no cost to keep them, so leased hulls might go back with the lease is up even though they are newer.

    The huge hole in the finances is the lease costs which must be paid, so flying at a loss is actually better than not flying at all once you have enough in fares to cover fuel/staff/landing fees


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    #525
    Kcormahs
    Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭Kcormahs


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    EI appears to have not signed to accept EI-EIK so avoided being stuck with it. Given the state of the US it looks like a fleet of 6 would be enough going forward BOS/JFK/ORD/SFO + YYZ

    EI-CVx and EI-CPx are still in the fleet. The A321's are getting old and might get dumped as the NEO's come in but they are a great and efficient short haul aircraft within near Europe

    EI used to own everything outright so the early A32x are owned outright so there is no cost to keep them, so leased hulls might go back with the lease is up even though they are newer.

    The huge hole in the finances is the lease costs which must be paid, so flying at a loss is actually better than not flying at all once you have enough in fares to cover fuel/staff/landing fees


    thanks but which a330 are definitely leaving the EI fleet then?
    ei-ewr gone
    ei-gey permanently leaving or only temporarily stored?
    ei-lax and daa?


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    #526
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    GEY is leased so its not EI's call what happens
    EWR is already in pieces (handed back after lease)
    LAX and DAA are owned by EI, I'd expect LAX to be parted out

    LAX and DAA did have a heavy check in 2020 so they might be flown until they need another check


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    #527
    ohigg84
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭ohigg84


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    GEY is leased so its not EI's call what happens
    EWR is already in pieces (handed back after lease)
    LAX and DAA are owned by EI, I'd expect LAX to be parted out


    LAX and DAA are indeed owned outright by EI, and are still very capable aircraft.
    Both are fitted with cabin crew rest areas, and are very reliable aircraft and maintained meticulously.


    If anything, they should be staying with the airline, and its even better that they are owned outright.


    I see a lot of 330s that are leased going back to the lessors, especially considering the American market is now decimated.


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    #528
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    LAX is probably the most travelled EI aircraft ever in distance terms (the -300's have been to more interesting places). There is life left in her its a question of is there any business or for cash flow will it be sold for scrap. This is a world wide downturn so there isn't an opportunity to wet lease as was done in the olden times.

    Still need to figure out if LAX really does have its original projector installed

    Lost count how many SFO/SEA trips I made on LAX it always seemed a bit statistically strange to be LAX


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    #529
    Phen2206
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭Phen2206


    <SNIP>
    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Still need to figure out if LAX really does have its original projector installed
    Would definitely be fascinating to know if this is true. I'd be very surprised if it is though. They took delivery of the newer recent 333s without any LCD screens on the bulkheads to save weight so I'd be shocked if they've been flying -LAX around with an obsolete heavy projector doing nothing for the last 10 or so years.


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    #530
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    They never took the business class curtain rail out of the A32x either...


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    #531
    Shamrockj
    Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭Shamrockj


    -GEY being flown to LERL tomorrow at 9.20AM


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    #532
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    ...That money should be used to make sure our front line staff don't have to take paycuts and for further investment in our healthcare system

    If anything they deserve a payrise !


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    #533
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    .....

    Still need to figure out if really does have its original projector installed
    ......
    The gaps in the central overhead areas that housed the drop down screens are/were empty on LAX and EWR.


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    #534
    sherology
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭sherology


    Shamrockj wrote: »
    -GEY being flown to LERL tomorrow at 9.20AM

    Is it being stored/paid-for by its owner (Qatar) or by EI (leasing it) - as in... Has it been returned to Qatar?


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    #535
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    sherology wrote: »
    Is it being stored/paid-for by its owner (Qatar) or by EI (leasing it) - as in... Has it been returned to Qatar?

    Qatar dont own EI-GEY.


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    #536
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    EI-GEY is leased from Castlelake Aviation


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    #537
    sherology
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭sherology


    kona wrote: »
    Qatar dont own EI-GEY.

    AHH... I thought it was leased from Qatar Airways.


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    #538
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    sherology wrote: »
    AHH... I thought it was leased from Qatar Airways.

    Easy enough to assume as it was generally referred to as “the ex-Qatar one”.
    Qatar has leased it themselves for a set amount of time. That lease ended and the owner got themselves another customer.

    EG. I believe that the 2 latest brand new A333s are leased. While the Airbus production list had them as destined for EI and they may well spend their entire lives as “EI birds” they are essentially under a long term lease.


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    #539
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    All the NEO's are leased as well


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    #540
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,035 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Leased from a leasing company or financed by a bank?


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    #541
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Very much leased

    https://airleasecorp.com/press/air-lease-corporation-announces-delivery-of-first-of-eight-new-airbus-a321-200neo-lr-aircraft-to-aer-lingus
    LOS ANGELES, July 26, 2019 – Today Air Lease Corporation (NYSE: AL; “ALC”) announced the delivery of one new Airbus A321-200neo LR aircraft on long-term lease to Aer Lingus (Dublin, Ireland). This Airbus aircraft, featuring CFM International LEAP-1A33 engines, is the first of eight A321-200neo LRs scheduled to deliver to the airline through 2020 from ALC’s order book with Airbus.


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