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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)
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How in the name of all that's holy is this not a way bigger issue in the States???
Has Trump completely neutered the Republican party? This should be an impeachable act, yet there's barely a whimper about it. The Republican's obsession with the military, their ever increasing military budgets and this is barely getting a mention? I am more flabbergasted than ever.
The WH response has been farcical, no mention of what they would do if the intel was credible, just sticking their fingers in their ears and going NA NA NA. Brutal.
If the American people stand for this it's all over in the States. Not just now, but imagine what someone smarter than Trump, but with similarly lacking in oral standards could do if in office.
All the talk of the separation of powers, etc. One buffoon can almost bring the country to it's knees in four years.
They won't go against him because of his supposed popularity with Republican voters and they're afraid of being destroyed on Twitter, like Justin Amash and Jeff Flake were. That's the extent of their interest in their country - they're more interested in keeping their jobs and staying out of the news than doing the right thing.
It's a national disgrace.0 -
The Democratic strategy of doing nothing seems to be working for now. Let Trump torpedo himself, The Lincoln Project and others are doing amazing work for them and keep Biden in the basement. The polls are pretty horrific for the Reps at the moment.
As promising as all this looks, will it be enough to beat the gerrymandering, voter purging, postal ballot bans and inevitable foreign interference?0 -
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They won't go against him because of his supposed popularity with Republican voters and they're afraid of being destroyed on Twitter, like Justin Amash and Jeff Flake were. That's the extent of their interest in their country - they're more interested in keeping their jobs and staying out of the news than doing the right thing.
It's a national disgrace.
Exactly, as has been said before the GOP have no interest in Governing , their only interest is Power and they do not care what it takes to keep it.
As long as Trump retains high levels of support with GOP voters no one in the GOP will speak out against him , no matter what he does.
John McCain once said it - He was asked "What would it take for the GOP to turn on Trump?" , he replied "When he starts polling consistently in the 30's"
Not - If he did or didn't do X or Y , but ONLY if his polling numbers dropped.
Power is all that matters to them , nothing else.0 -
Sorry I assumed when you said Russia you were talking anout this most recent Russia issue and not the broader Russia issue. I mean I think why he's not pushed back because as we have seen he thinks anything Russia related is a hoax of some kind. The fact he hasn't though will raise question as to whether he is comprimised in some way by the Russians.
I'm talking about anything and everything to do with Trump's alleged links to Russia.
I don't think they can be compartmentalised.
I don't think the reason Trump hasn't pushed back on Russia as regards the bounty money is because he thinks anything Russia-related is a hoax.
I don't think that's the reason at all.0 -
duploelabs wrote: »
Wow.
I wonder whether many people who shout "I'm pro-Trump and pro-troops!" have developed even a trace of cognitive dissonance by this stage.
Probably not, I'd say.0 -
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Stallingrad wrote: »The Democratic strategy of doing nothing seems to be working for now. Let Trump torpedo himself, The Lincoln Project and others are doing amazing work for them and keep Biden in the basement. The polls are pretty horrific for the Reps at the moment.
As promising as all this looks, will it be enough to beat the gerrymandering, voter purging, postal ballot bans and inevitable foreign interference?
To the best of my knowledge, all Trump likely needs is a 269-269 tie.
That would mean that Biden could win Pennsylvania and Michigan and still not get to 270.
Trump just needs to voter suppress on an industrial scale in the other states, which absolutely will happen, and probably falsify a small percentage of votes to give him a narrow victory in those states.
It's amazing how that was the exact thing that happened in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin last time.0 -
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Given we've seen Trump supporters - albeit a statistically questionable two people - wear t-shirts crowing "I'd rather be Russian than vote Democrat", the base and hardcore simply don't care. It's the Sunk Cost fallacy at this stage writ large. Though this item that Trump knowingly ignored American troops being attacked via Russia interference may stretch the conscience of even the most die hard support.
Or not. This damn presidency is such a curious mutant it's hard to be sure about anything: his attack on the Khans, his sneering of McCain's time as a POW would have sunk 99% of other candidates - yet here we are. Tho shalt not insult the troops, while attacking families regardless of context is a consistent no-no, yet no political norm seems to stick to Trump's rise. This is the country that giggled and wrote off Michael Dukakis for posing in a tank, yet Trump gets carte blanche to demean the military. It's weird.
So maybe, maybe knowing Russia was attacking US troops by proxy, and Trump sat on the information, could damage him. I kinda presumed the Khans didn't hurt too much because a) they were used by the Democrats as an election tool, and b) they were Muslim. This could be different in that there's a clear line of red yarn between Trump, Russia and a knowing endangerment of US troops.0 -
Given we've seen Trump supporters - albeit a statistically questionable two people - wear t-shirts crowing "I'd rather be Russian than vote Democrat", the base and hardcore simply don't care. It's the Sunk Cost fallacy at this stage writ large. Though this item that Trump knowingly ignored American troops being attacked via Russia interference may stretch the conscience of even the most die hard support.
Or not. This damn presidency is such a curious mutant it's hard to be sure about anything: his attack on the Khans, his sneering of McCain's time as a POW would have sunk 99% of other candidates - yet here we are. Tho shalt not insult the troops, while attacking families regardless of context is a consistent no-no, yet no political norm seems to stick to Trump's rise. This is the country that giggled and wrote off Michael Dukakis for posing in a tank, yet Trump gets carte blanche to demean the military. It's weird.
So maybe, maybe knowing Russia was attacking US troops by proxy, and Trump sat on the information, could damage him. I kinda presumed the Khans didn't hurt too much because a) they were used by the Democrats as an election tool, and b) they were Muslim. This could be different in that there's a clear line of red yarn between Trump, Russia and a knowing endangerment of US troops.
Even take for example the whole kneeling during the anthem, when athletes did that he screamed about how it was "unpatriotic" and disrespectful to the military and people lapped it up.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »I'm talking about anything and everything to do with Trump's alleged links to Russia.
I don't think they can be compartmentalised.
I don't think the reason Trump hasn't pushed back on Russia as regards the bounty money is because he thinks anything Russia-related is a hoax.
I don't think that's the reason at all.
Well because of the mueller report and it's evidence that Russia did in fact interfere in the 2016 election on his behalf it's clear he can't stand his election win in some way being less than legitimate in the eyes of the American people. So, I do believe that this issue, even far removed from the 2016 election is linked to it.
I do think his refusal to push back on Putin in any way and like in Helsinki side with is because we know that trump likes strongmen type leaders like putin.
It will be interesting to see how this story plays with the military voters because that's voters he needs.0 -
Sorry I assumed when you said Russia you were talking anout this most recent Russia issue and not the broader Russia issue. I mean I think why he's not pushed back because as we have seen he thinks anything Russia related is a hoax of some kind. The fact he hasn't though will raise question as to whether he is comprimised in some way by the Russians.
I used to think that the whole Moscow Hotel/golden shower thing was the stuff of conspiracy theory. But then I saw a good doc on Putins rise to power from his KGB days in Germany and the use of kompromat is a normal tool for him. The doc also said Putin had been tracking Trump for years before the 2016 election in the hope he would one day run for President and become a useful asset for Russia.
I dont even think that the theory of Trump secretly recorded on tape with four prostitutes needs to be true to compromise him. It was his Miss Universe contest being hosted in Moscow so lots of girls 18-21 were about, even him having sex with one of them and Putin having a tape of that is more than enough to politically compromise him. Were that tape to emerge it would turn the stomachs of the American people, a 70 year old man with an impressionable teenage girl, its as bad as Harvery Weinstein. We already know that Trump likes to go backstage at these beauty pagents when all the girls are naked and leer at them, its not a big leap to make that he wants to get them into his bed, its what he does. And its definitely not beyond Putins capacity to have his hotel room bugged, its what he does.
The only other rational explanation I can think of that explains how soft he has been on Russia is that privately he recognises Russian interference in the 2016 election was what got him over the line against Clinton. Russian bots literally targeted voters in swing states on social media with constant clips of Hillary and the emails or her briefly stumbling. It was relentless in the lead up to the election and they were a factor in helping Trump. Maybe Trump recognises that Putin wants him in the White House and he rightfully thinks Putins bot army will go to battle again for this election so why speak out against someone who is an electoral asset.0 -
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I used to think that the whole Moscow Hotel/golden shower thing was the stuff of conspiracy theory. But then I saw a good doc on Putins rise to power from his KGB days in Germany and the use of kompromat is a normal tool for him. The doc also said Putin had been tracking Trump for years before the 2016 election in the hope he would one day run for President and become a useful asset for Russia.
I dont even think that the theory of Trump secretly recorded on tape with four prostitutes needs to be true to compromise him. It was his Miss Universe contest being hosted in Moscow so lots of girls 18-21 were about, even him having sex with one of them and Putin having a tape of that is more than enough to politically compromise him. Were that tape to emerge it would turn the stomachs of the American people, a 70 year old man with an impressionable teenage girl, its as bad as Harvery Weinstein. We already know that Trump likes to go backstage at these beauty pagents when all the girls are naked and leer at them, its not a big leap to make that he wants to get them into his bed, its what he does. And its definitely not beyond Putins capacity to have his hotel room bugged, its what he does.
The only other rational explanation I can think of that explains how soft he has been on Russia is that privately he recognises Russian interference in the 2016 election was what got him over the line against Clinton. Russian bots literally targeted voters in swing states on social media with constant clips of Hillary and the emails or her briefly stumbling. It was relentless in the lead up to the election and they were a factor in helping Trump. Maybe Trump recognises that Putin wants him in the White House and he rightfully thinks Putins bot army will go to battle again for this election so why speak out against someone who is an electoral asset.
You're missing the substantial financial allegations surrounding Trump laundering Russian mafia money, as they say in The Wire 'follow the money'.
There's a whole episode outlining it in the Netflix series, 'Dirty Money' https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7909174/0 -
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duploelabs wrote: »You're missing the substantial financial allegations surrounding Trump laundering Russian mafia money, as they say in The Wire 'follow the money'.
There's a whole episode outlining it in the Netflix series, 'Dirty Money' https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7909174/
And given that most if not all of the Oligarchs owe their wealth and status to Putin the line between the two isn't exactly thin.0 -
Yeah the money laundering allegations are there too but they are not as salacious or politically damaging as the potential for a sex tape to emerge. Just the very threat of it would be enough for Trump to realise that Putin has got him by the balls and could finish his poltical career at any given time of his choosing.
Then the whole thing of Trump having private meetings with him without interpreters present, serious questions over that because it is him throwing protocol for these one on one meetings right out the window. I dont think Trump has done that with any other world leader, only Putin.0 -
Yeah that as well but its not as salacious or politically damaging as the potential for a sex tape to emerge. Just the very threat of it would be enough for Trump to realise that Putin has got him by the balls and could finish his poltical career at any given time of his choosing.
Then the whole thing of Trump having private meetings with him without interpreters present, serious questions over that because it is him throwing protocol for these one on one meetings right out the window. I dont think Trump has done that with any other world leader, only Putin.
You've read the witness statement that was lodged against Trump but subsequently retracted due to intimidation?
https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf
If that doesn't count, then how much gravitas would an encounter with a Russian hooker produce?0 -
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Is it a message of some kind that on the desktop version of the site , the above was the 1st post on page 666 of the thread?0 -
Jennifer Horne, the former chair of New Hampshire Republican Party, member of the Log Cabin Republicans and a co-founder of the Lincoln Project was on CNN explaining how she wanted to rid the GOP of Trumpism and all the GOP Senators bar one, even if it means the Democrats win the election. Re the Russians paying bounties for the deaths of US soldiers in Afghanistan ISSUE, she said Trump is a traitor to the US and its constitution. The Lincoln Project Ad of US service members coming home in flag-draped coffins was played during that segment of the interview.0
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duploelabs wrote: »You've read the witness statement that was lodged against Trump but subsequently retracted due to intimidation?
https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf
If that doesn't count, then how much gravitas would an encounter with a Russian hooker produce?
Allegations of money laundering just arent sexy whereas sex tapes are. The Panana Papers should have been a global story for weeks given the gravity of what they found but after two days the public at large had tuned out of it. A sex tape of Trump with a teenager would be a whole different kettle of fish, Twitter would blow up and networks would be running it on a repeating loop. In any case if it does exist then Putin wont be leaking it until such time as Trump is of no use to him. Putin wants Trump to stay in the White House, he is much more preferable than dealing with Biden.0 -
Allegations of money laundering just arent sexy whereas sex tapes are. The Panana Papers should have been a global story for weeks given the gravity of what they found but after two days the public at large had tuned out of it. A sex tape of Trump with a teenager would be a whole different kettle of fish, Twitter would blow up and networks would be running it on a repeating loop. In any case if it does exist then Putin wont be leaking it until such time as Trump is of no use to him. Putin wants Trump to stay in the White House, he is much more preferable than dealing with Biden.
I think this is part of the problem with US media. Who knows if the alleged sex tape is real, it may or may not be, but even if it is, it would not be a terribly important thing in the grand scheme of things unless it showed sexual assault or rape taking place, and I think it's very unlikely that such a tape exists. But it is soap opera and tabloid titillation, and the biggest failing of most of the US media in creating narrative around Trump is in falling hook, line and sinker for the soap opera shenanigans while missing or ignoring the bigger stuff.
How much the US media is actually cowed by Trump and his cronies into avoiding reporting the real dirt is another matter, but I would guess the intimidation factor is very significant. Intimidation has been one of Trump's main modus operandi throughout his life.
Also, the Epstein story was under the noses of the US media for over a decade before Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald doggedly pursued it and turned it into a world story. So the US media has form in missing the elephant in the room.
Before Trump was ever in bed with the Russian mafia, he had links to the New York Italian mafia. The Russian mafia/money laundering links are extremely important as they likely go a long way towards explaining why Trump has been behaving the way he has been towards Russia for many years.
Everything seems to flow from this.
Presumably the Epstein ties were kompromat of a different nature. Knowing what we do about Epstein and his ties to the Maxwells, it seems probable that Epstein was working for Israeli secret services.
It seems highly implausible to me at this stage that Trump is not a Russian asset. There are far too many bizarre links and coincidences for anything else to be plausible.
His life going back as far as the 1970s is littered with them, never mind his candidacy and presidency.
I think foreign secret services saw Trump as somebody who was highly connected within US elites, and had such a monstrous ego that it was very possible he would enter politics at some stage. But he was also, at best, a highly erratic businessman who got himself into all sorts of financial trouble. He was "an easy mark", and foreign secret services could scarcely have dreamed of somebody so high profile and so compromisable.
Obviously none of this is confined to Trump himself. He looks to be part of what strongly appears to be a wide-ranging international kleptocratic conspiracy encompassing several countries and non-state actors such as Deutsche Bank , and yes, I do hate using the c word, but what else can you use?
Robert Mueller's 2011 speech (when he was head of the FBI) is quite instructive as to the nature of the threat the US government is likely currently in the grip of.
But Mueller himself failed to deal properly with that threat, either as head of the FBI or in his 2017-2019 investigation.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/speeches/the-evolving-organized-crime-threat0 -
Yeah Trump has always had links with the mafia going right back to the 1970s. Back then his personal lawyer was Roy Cohn who was known as a New York bruiser in the style of Trump himself. Cohn was a lawyer for many mafia figures and the FBI had a huge file on him amounting to 750 pages which they released last year. Cohn was tied up with Jimmy Hoffa and mafia boss Anthony Salerno as well as a host of mafia involved in Las Vegas casinos. And Trump too, both of them socialised a lot together.
Roy Cohn was disbarred as a lawyer in the 1980s while working for Trump, he got caught defrauding a client out of millions. He is not to be confused with Trumps other personal lawyer Michael Cohen who was also disbarred for trying to cover up Trumps secret payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. It seems a bit of a pattern for Trumps personal lawyers that they end up getting disbarred, its odds on that Rudy Guiliani is next for that fate over him conducting Trumps secret foreign policy in Ukraine to get dirt on Biden.0 -
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Roy Cohn was disbarred as a lawyer in the 1980s while working for Trump, he got caught defrauding a client out of millions. He is not to be confused with Trumps other personal lawyer Michael Cohen who was also disbarred for trying to cover up Trumps secret payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. It seems a bit of a pattern for Trumps personal lawyers that they end up getting disbarred, its odds on that Rudy Guiliani is next for that fate over him conducting Trumps secret foreign policy in Ukraine to get dirt on Biden.
Also Barr, although he's only Trump's lawyer in practice.0 -
duploelabs wrote: »"Washington, D.C. – Speaker Nancy Pelosi sent the following letter today to the Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe and the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency Gina Haspel requesting an interagency briefing for all House Members regarding disturbing press reports that Russia placed bounties on U.S. Troops in Afghanistan and President Trump’s inexplicable behavior towards Russia in light of these reports.
In the letter, the Speaker wrote “The questions that arise are: was the President briefed, and if not, why not, and why was Congress not briefed.”
https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/62920-0
Why is this such big news. The Russians supplied weapons to many groups in Syria to kill American soldiers, the same as America did to kill Russian soldiers.
Exactly the same way the US government supplied missiles to the Taliban in the 80's to kill as many Russian soldiers as possible.
Exactly the same way the US government supplied weapons to Ukraine only a few years ago to kill as many Russian soldiers as possible.
Are us troops in foreign countries untouchable now ? I expect this is no surprise to the USA military.0 -
The democratic party and the democratic Mayors and governors are Trumps biggest ally. In the past 2 months they have scored a massive own goal, middle America will vote for security over anarchy, police over looting. In January Trump was guaranteed to be well beaten, not so much now. The quiet voters who are afraid to voice their opinions in public(at risk of media and Antifa physical/social bullying) will come out for Trump.0
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[Deleted User] wrote: »The democratic party and the democratic Mayors and governors are Trumps biggest ally. In the past 2 months they have scored a massive own goal, middle America will vote for security over anarchy. In January Trump was guaranteed to be well beaten, not so much now. The quiet voters who are afraid to voice their opinions in public(at risk of media and Antifa physical/social bullying) will come out for Trump.
You're saying that Trump was well beaten when the economy was still going strong, and the continual farce which is the US response to covid-19 hadn't even begun to happen?
Reality disagrees with you, fortunately. By every metric Trump is losing support. While it's possible this can be turned around, it doesn't seem likely.0 -
In January he had done nothing for his support base. Farmers were losing out due to China, the rust belt was continuing to lose jobs, oil was at a record low.You're saying that Trump was well beaten when the economy was still going strong, and the continual farce which is the US response to covid-19 hadn't even begun to happen?
Reality disagrees with you, fortunately. By every metric Trump is losing support. While it's possible this can be turned around, it doesn't seem likely.
Now his base have a reason to vote. They are under attack by the democrats, media and antifa, cities are been burned, statues destroyed and the flag stamped on, anarchy reigns.
They don't care about the response to Covid.
You may not see it that way, but they do. Now they have a massive incentive to come out and vote even if Trumps economic policies have failed. Way to go Nancy..
Before the last election, Hillary had a 94% chance of winning.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Why is this such big news. The Russians supplied weapons to many groups in Syria to kill American soldiers, the same as America did to kill Russian soldiers.
Exactly the same way the US government supplied missiles to the Taliban in the 80's to kill as many Russian soldiers as possible.
Exactly the same way the US government supplied weapons to Ukraine only a few years ago to kill as many Russian soldiers as possible.
Are us troops in foreign countries untouchable now ? I expect this is no surprise to the USA military.
You see you've completely missed the point there.
You don't have to agree with the war in Afghanistan, I never did.
One of the most basic tasks for the leader of any country is to do everything they can to protect their armed forces.
If, say, Turkey was offering prize money for the killing of Russian soldiers in Syria, and Putin not just refused to in any way criticise Erdogan and Turkey for such, but meekly rewarded them for it in a geopolitical sense, how do you think that would go down in Russia?
The point is that Donald Trump knows US troops are targets of Russian sponsored slaughter, is happy to take no action at all in response, is happy to say nothing in the way of criticism, and is happy to openly reward the sponsors of that slaughter - with no strings attached.
That is tantamount to supporting the targeting and slaughter of US troops.0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »In January he had done nothing for his support base. Farmers were losing out due to China, the rust belt was continuing to lose jobs, oil was at a record low.
Now his base have a reason to vote. They are under attack by the democrats, media and antifa, cities are been burned, statues destroyed and the flag stamped on, anarchy reigns.
They don't care about the response to Covid.
You may not see it that way, but they do. Now they have a massive incentive to come out and vote even if Trumps economic policies have failed. Way to go Nancy..
Before the last election, Hillary had a 94% chance of winning.
Is trump now running on statues not being destroyed?
Ohh please let this be true.0 -
You think that doesn't incentivise some of his supporters ?Cody montana wrote: »Is trump now running on statues not being destroyed?
Ohh please let this be true.0 -
Yeah Trump has always had links with the mafia going right back to the 1970s. Back then his personal lawyer was Roy Cohn who was known as a New York bruiser in the style of Trump himself. Cohn was a lawyer for many mafia figures and the FBI had a huge file on him amounting to 750 pages which they released last year. Cohn was tied up with Jimmy Hoffa and mafia boss Anthony Salerno as well as a host of mafia involved in Las Vegas casinos. And Trump too, both of them socialised a lot together.
Roy Cohn was disbarred as a lawyer in the 1980s while working for Trump, he got caught defrauding a client out of millions. He is not to be confused with Trumps other personal lawyer Michael Cohen who was also disbarred for trying to cover up Trumps secret payment of hush money to Stormy Daniels. It seems a bit of a pattern for Trumps personal lawyers that they end up getting disbarred, its odds on that Rudy Guiliani is next for that fate over him conducting Trumps secret foreign policy in Ukraine to get dirt on Biden.
Cohn was basically a bouncer for Trump. He would intimidate and threaten the hell out of anybody who dug into Trump's affairs. He was a thug, but Trump's closest confidante.
That didn't stop Trump completely washing his hands of him when Cohn was dying from AIDS, mind.
To Trump, everybody, bar perhaps Ivanka, has always been dispensable.0 -
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[Deleted User] wrote: »You think that doesn't incentivise some of his supporters ?
That isn't likely to cover all the demographics he's leaking like a sieve.0
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This discussion has been closed.
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