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Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

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Comments

  • #8942
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Rob A. Bank wrote: »
    A brilliant beautifully illustrated article. Thank you for posting it.

    I fear we are headed for a re-run of the dark days of March and April.

    Pity you didn't read it properly.


  • #8943
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Rob A. Bank wrote: »
    A brilliant beautifully illustrated article. Thank you for posting it.

    It is no longer tenable for the 'powers that be' to cling to the notions that Covid-19 is only droplet spread and that asymptomatic (or pre-symptomatic) spread is not a significant driving force for the pandemic in superspreading events like those illustrated.

    Recycled TB prevention advice based on ideas from November 1934 is just not good enough anymore.

    The open borders, anti mandatory masks and temperature screening stance, originally adopted by the CMO, must be completely reversed... otherwise I fear we are headed for a re-run of the dark days of March and April.


    I'm fairly certain the article suggests that physical distancing and air circulation is the most important and masks are the least effective.


  • #8944
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    Has anyone read the article where they analysis three outbreaks in different indoor settings?

    Essential reading and really well presented, with interactive visuals to demonstrate how it spread in a restaurant, bus and open-plan office and what were key factors of spread.

    'An analysis of three Covid-19 outbreaks: how they happened and how they can be avoided'

    https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-06-17/an-analysis-of-three-covid-19-outbreaks-how-they-happened-and-how-they-can-be-avoided.html

    It really is an excellent piece. One of the things that really struck me was the points around natural ventilation in large office floors. How many offices/workplaces in Ireland actually have lots of natural ventilation that don't reply on air conditioning.


  • #8945
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    Maybe hotels etc should give a discount if you live and are holidaying in Ireland. Wasn't there a mention of vouchers being sent to houses here?


  • #8946
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    It really is an excellent piece. One of the things that really struck me was the points around natural ventilation in large office floors. How many offices/workplaces in Ireland actually have lots of natural ventilation that don't reply on air conditioning.

    Lots of newer office buildings (past 15-ish years) will use air conditioning which means there are no openable windows for natural ventilation.


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  • #8947
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    I'm fairly certain the article suggests that physical distancing and air circulation is the most important and masks are the least effective.

    Did you read the bit how masks are important on buses?


  • #8948
    political analyst
    Site Banned Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭political analyst


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Because...China...

    I meant those cases that were the first that the world became aware of, not the cases noticed by the late Dr Li Wenliang.

    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Because they can't say that until the viral genome is sequenced and analysed?

    Respiratory symptoms can be a result of many things.

    But after the 2002 outbreak no new virus that I know of caused respiratory problems in East Asia until the current pandemic commenced. The distinct possibility of it being a virus from the SARS "family" would've been enough to justify restrictions on travel. You know - if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck ....


  • #8949
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Did you read the bit how masks are important on buses?
    Did you see the chart at the end?


    mTqcTmn.png


  • #8950
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Did you read the bit how masks are important on buses?
    They also firstly pointed out that a major problem was the air was recirculated on the bus. Would love a comparasion with a bus with windows and a bus with filtered air conditioning.


  • #8951
    fritzelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    political analyst wrote: »
    I meant those cases that were the first that the world became aware of, not the cases noticed by the late Dr Li Wenliang.

    Because...China...and their lapdog the WHO


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  • #8952
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    Did you see the chart at the end?


    mTqcTmn.png


    "A number of studies in Japan and elsewhere show that public transportation is not responsible for multiple infections as long as users maintain the rules of hygiene and protection, especially the use of masks that prevent infected individuals from releasing contagious droplets into the atmosphere"

    How do you create physical distance on a bus or use screens on a bus?


  • #8953
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    And also information on the age groups on the bus and their vitamin D status. along with Vit C and zinc. etc


  • #8954
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    "A number of studies in Japan and elsewhere show that public transportation is not responsible for multiple infections as long as users maintain the rules of hygiene and protection, especially the use of masks that prevent infected individuals from releasing contagious droplets into the atmosphere"

    How do you create physical distance on a bus or use screens on a bus?
    Every single bus in Ireland right now has social distancing on board. We are literally doing that.


  • #8955
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,811 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    California orders 7 counties, including LA, to close all bars and nightclubs immediately.

    I'm seeing a trend here.

    We should not be opening pubs at this time in this country.


  • #8956
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    California orders 7 counties, including LA, to close all bars and nightclubs immediately.

    I'm seeing a trend here.

    We should not be opening pubs at this time in this country.
    You're comparing us to California? In what way are we the same as California?


  • #8957
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    speckle wrote: »
    They also firstly pointed out that a major problem was the air was recirculated on the bus. Would love a comparasion with a bus with windows and a bus with filtered air conditioning.

    One important thing this study asks reader to draw their attention to is the type of ventilation system they used. Not every space will have natural ventilation. In this case it is key that air is not recycled.

    Anyone who has bookings in bars/restaurants or other places reopening, should be asking the staff what type of ventilation they are using. It should be a change air ventilation system. Also if establishment you're in is using a recycled air system and with no natural ventilation, the risk of you getting infected increases the longer you share a space with someone who is infected,. even if they are sitting at a different table,with 2M-3M distancing and you having had no direct contact with that person.


  • #8958
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    speckle wrote: »
    They also firstly pointed out that a major problem was the air was recirculated on the bus. Would love a comparasion with a bus with windows and a bus with filtered air conditioning.

    Would the safest place on a bus be beside a window so that I could have it open? Come winter, you'll have people closing windows on a bus. Think I'd rather keep them open.


  • #8959
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Would the safest place on a bus be beside a window so that I could have it open? Come winter, you'll have people closing windows on a bus. Think I'd rather keep them open.

    You could always walk or cycle.


  • #8960
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    Every single bus in Ireland right now has social distancing on board. We are literally doing that.

    And yet, people all over that bus got infected. Patient zero in the middle of bus and the person at the back wasn't safe and got infected.


  • #8961
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Would the safest place on a bus be beside a window so that I could have it open? Come winter, you'll have people closing windows on a bus. Think I'd rather keep them open.
    I presume as long as the wind is blowing in the window if it is the only one open. Thete was a research paper somewhere answering that question better than I can text.
    My local pub is not opening till july 20. And with their backdoor and front door prised open the draught is normally amazing. So it will be an extra woolley jumper like the old days before double glazing and fake windows as I call them in these posh trendy new so called cool pubs!


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  • #8962
    ShyMets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You could always walk or cycle.

    Dont worry, I'm sure there will be some wonderfully implausible story about why they cant cycle or walk.


  • #8963
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    And yet, people all over that bus got infected. Patient zero in the middle of bus and the person at the back wasn't safe and got infected.
    There hasn't been a bus outbreak in Ireland. Haven't even seen any in Europe tbh.


  • #8964
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    ShyMets wrote: »
    Dont worry, I'm sure there will be some wonderfully implausible story about why they cant cycle or walk.

    I know, but I find the stories oddly amusing.


  • #8965
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,811 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    You're comparing us to California? In what way are we the same as California?

    I never compared us to California. I said like other places who reached the point of opening bars - they are closing their bars days after reopening them due to spread or super spreader events.

    We either learn from others correcting their mistakes or we don't.


  • #8966
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,553 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    California orders 7 counties, including LA, to close all bars and nightclubs immediately.

    I'm seeing a trend here.

    We should not be opening pubs at this time in this country.

    Ah come on give it a rest, are you really trying to compare us to the states ? A country that never got a grip on things before ploughing ahead with a reopening of literally everything after shut downs that lasted only a few weeks. They opened up before getting any sort of grip on the situation, partially due to the orange clown in the white house.

    In what way are we remotely simular to the situation that they find themselves in across the Atlantic.


  • #8967
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I never compared us to California. I said like other places who reached the point of opening bars - they are closing their bars days after reopening them due to spread or super spreader events.

    We either learn from others correcting their mistakes or we don't.
    You can't say we should do the same when they're reporting record cases and we reported our lowest figure since March.


  • #8968
    Spencer Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 268 ✭✭Spencer Brown


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    California orders 7 counties, including LA, to close all bars and nightclubs immediately.

    I'm seeing a trend here.

    We should not be opening pubs at this time in this country.

    7 out of 58, let's not let facts get in the way of a bit of scaremongering though?


  • #8969
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    speckle wrote: »
    I presume as long as the wind is blowing in the window if it is the only one open. Thete was a research paper somewhere answering that question better than I can text.
    My local pub is not opening till july 20. And with their backdoor and front door prised open the draught is normally amazing. So it will be an extra woolley jumper like the old days before double glazing and fake windows as I call them in these posh trendy new so called cool pubs!
    Yep, our climate will work against us, but I will seek out places where there is lots of ventilation. I don't care if I have to sit indoors wearing a hat, it's a small sacrifice to make and won't last forever.


  • #8970
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,811 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Ah come on give it a rest, are you really trying to compare us to the states ? A country that never got a grip on things before ploughing ahead with a reopening of literally everything after shut downs that lasted only a few weeks.

    In what way are we remotely simular to the situation that they find themselves in across the Atlantic.

    How about South Korea and Austrailia?

    The evidence is there in the measures other countries have had to take after opening bars. Which is basically shutting them down again within days.

    You don't need to be particularly bright to understand why a pub environment is not a good place to be right now.


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  • #8971
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,328 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    There hasn't been a bus outbreak in Ireland. Haven't even seen any in Europe tbh.

    I'd assume picking it up on public transport was pretty easy before we knew about it. The buses running from Italian ski resorts to the airports must have been a bit risky.


This discussion has been closed.
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