Irish rail fleet and infrastructure plans

Pixel Eater · 27-05-2020 4:56pm

loyatemu wrote: »

the engineering required for an extra track on the causeway is probably significantly heavier and more complex than for the greenway. There's probably somewhere cheaper they could build a loop.

Maybe. But few sections would have such a long straight stretch track without worrying about houses or roads. Plus they'd need CPO land could prove costly. Anyway, just an idea.

Losty Dublin · 28-05-2020 4:28pm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Maybe. But few sections would have such a long straight stretch track without worrying about houses or roads. Plus they'd need CPO land could prove costly. Anyway, just an idea.

No point in laying extra track across Malahide Estuary unless additional track is laid into the city centre. Irish Rail have pleaded and begged for well over 40 years but to no avail.

tabbey · 28-05-2020 5:52pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

No point in laying extra track across Malahide Estuary unless additional track is laid into the city centre. Irish Rail have pleaded and begged for well over 40 years but to no avail.

What action has Irish rail actually taken?

It costs nothing to object to planning applications by developers seeking to build along the railway. From laytown to malahide casino, Tara street and beyond, housing and offices have been built on land needed for track widening, apparently without a whisper from Irish rail or the nta.

goingnowhere · 28-05-2020 6:49pm

That cannot complain unless there is something in the local area plans or national planning framework etc you can point to.

In the past sections of land have been flagged by the local authority and zoned, what was to be a DART line in Tallaght is used by the Red Luas

There is no reference to 4 track anywhere. So while you could file an appeal, it will be thrown out.

Jamie2k9 · 28-05-2020 7:18pm

They could play a more active role in protecting future infrastructure and shaping local area plans. Recent housing developments in places like Nass or Newbridge should't have been allowed (so close) even though 4 tracks may never be needed.

We often see IE reps brought before various councils because of poor service among other things. They have a platform and can influence local issues.

Galway Councils or one or two councillors are the driving force around Oranmore loop. While IE might wanted the loop from day one I wouldn't be so sure they are proactive like the council.

Pixel Eater · 30-05-2020 9:26am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

No point in laying extra track across Malahide Estuary unless additional track is laid into the city centre. Irish Rail have pleaded and begged for well over 40 years but to no avail.

Well that ship has sailed in regards to extra tracks into the city, that's just not posible now. A long passing loop after Malahide would be better than nothing.

Since rail transport is so lowly regarded in this country I doubt Irish Rail have much clout with local athourities or the Government in general about saving infastructure or shaping local plans unfortunately.

And on Oranmore: I read it's going to be double tracking all the way to Athenry with extra platforms in the city; a lot more than a mere passing loop?

Losty Dublin · 30-05-2020 6:10pm

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Well that ship has sailed in regards to extra tracks into the city, that's just not posible now. A long passing loop after Malahide would be better than nothing.

Since rail transport is so lowly regarded in this country I doubt Irish Rail have much clout with local athourities or the Government in general about saving infastructure or shaping local plans unfortunately.

A loop on to the north of Malahide benefits nothing except Belfast and Drogheda services, which are slightly easier to diagram around. It's south of Malahide which is the bigger issue and especially between Howth Junction and Clontarf and onwards into Connolly itself. It could be done without much land acquisition but it will take a lot of cutting and embankment reinforcements and bridge renewals.

Agreed about the last point; State priority is low and getting lower when it comes to large and innovative investment in transport projects.

Lord Glentoran · 31-05-2020 11:05am

Meanwhile Colum McCrathy gets all brittle and angry under an article in today’s Sindo about having his anti rail bias called out by Irish Rail’s chief executive.

You’d want a heart of stone not to laugh.

In McCrathy’s view you must NORT call out those who have been proved wrong time and time again about rail investment!!! Poor lamb!!!

dowlingm · 02-06-2020 3:46am

A DART storage yard north of Broadmeadow could allow some reconfiguration of Clontarf Depot to get a third main track towards Connolly (possibly entailing the narrowing of West Road) and toward Killester (not to mention a better configured electric terminal would reduce the impacts of turn back movements currently done at Malahide)

One does wonder what IE got from Fingal in order to agree to the encroachment on their viaduct...?

Pete_Cavan · 03-06-2020 3:09pm

Has consideration ever been given to reorientating Malahide station so that instead of the platforms running from the station building north, they run south from it? There should be enough space to the south to fit in three platforms allowing for a turnback platform (albeit slightly staggered further south from the two through platforms). There should be enough space without interfering with the car park or GAA pitch. There would be obvious operational benefits to this and in theory there is the potential for a few km of three/four track south of there.

Obviously there is the difficulties of working next to a live rail line but the existing platforms would continue to operate during the works. The station building, car park, etc. would remain in use after. The biggest challenge would be widening the road bridge which would be difficult and cause a lot of disruption.

Jamie2k9 · 09-06-2020 10:53pm

Construction to start on new National Train Control Centre at Heuston over the next few weeks.

https://www.irishbuildingmagazine.ie/2020/06/09/purcell-to-build-new-national-train-control-centre/

Geuze · 19-06-2020 12:10am

https://www.railwaygazette.com/infrastructure/iarnrod-eireann-awards-national-traffic-management-system-contract/56766.article

What does this involve?

New physical trackside signalling equipment?

Or new hardware and software in a control centre?

Ireland trains · 21-06-2020 8:43pm

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/545201/rail-based-optionsto-be-considered-as-limerick-cork-motorway-plan-progresses.html
•The main points are limerick city+county council, TII, DFT and other groups are examining options for enhanced Cork-Limerick rail connectivity.
•Looking at an area between charleville and limerick city.

Also seperatly in relation to this article ( https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/city-council-to-apply-for-eu-funding-for-second-rail-track-from-galway-to-athenry/ ) previously mentioned on this forum seems to say there will be a 2nd track from athenry to galway, but then say it will be a passing loop at orenmore. Which is it?
The article also says there will be 5 new platforms at Galway. This seems a bit much so could it possibly be including a 2nd platform at orenmore.

River Suir · 26-06-2020 12:32pm

On the basis that the Maynooth line electrification proceeds as planned that will start to release 29k Railcars by the end of 2023. My understanding is that those Railcars will then be cascaded to Limerick to operate local services including the possible extra Galway commuter services.

The new Dart EMUs would be ready for service by then, if ordered by the end of this year.

L1011 · 26-06-2020 2:59pm

They haven't ordered the EMUs yet let alone started any actual construction works so 42 months is implausible

tabbey · 26-06-2020 3:01pm

Even if maynooth electrification goes ahead, completion by 2023 would be optimistic.

Ireland trains · 11-08-2020 2:54pm

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2020/08/10/cabinet-discuss-potential-e200m-limerick-suburban-rail-line/

end of the road · 11-08-2020 3:38pm

it's a good suggestion but i suspect nothing will come of it.
even if it did, i doubt they would have it open in 2027 unfortunately.

Del.Monte · 11-08-2020 4:54pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's a good suggestion but i suspect nothing will come of it.
even if it did, i doubt they would have it open in 2027 unfortunately.

Not to worry, Eamonn Ryan will give everybody in Limerick a bike. Why on earth he is asking local authorities to come up with public transport suggestions given that they have proven to be clueless time and again. The Youghal/Midleton section and the South Wexford line come to mind and we won't even mention the WRC farce.

tabbey · 11-08-2020 6:07pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's a good suggestion but i suspect nothing will come of it.
even if it did, i doubt they would have it open in 2027 unfortunately.

If they wanted to do so, it could be done. The bridge over Carey's Road would have to be replaced and formation excavated throughout the route to Adare.
The biggest problem would be persuading the bus operator to surrender control of the yard beside the passenger terminus, and persuading health and safety people in the railway inspectorate to allow a short platform inside or near the terminal trainshed.

Another problem is that with the mother of all recessions upon us post covid, there might be no money for any projects. In the past when times were hard in Ireland we put out the begging bowl to Brussels. Now we're all in the merde.

IE 222 · 12-08-2020 1:49pm

Presumably it's in replacement of the Adare bypass.

They'll need to provide some sort of transport upgrade to the area. â‚¬200 million is still a â‚¬100 million saving compared to building the Adare bypass while also expanding local rail services across the whole of Limerick city with stations been added at Moyross and Ballysimon been included.

Ideally they should reopen the line to Foynes and Newcastle West also. Are Shannon Port Co. still interested in getting thr line reopened, maybe they might add something to it. Could also make reopening Charleville - Patrickswell more feasible at a later date and save us building an unnecessary motorway.

Not sure they necessarily need to add a greenway along side the line, wonder what cost that is adding.

Cookiemunster · 12-08-2020 3:52pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Presumably it's in replacement of the Adare bypass.

They'll need to provide some sort of transport upgrade to the area. €200 million is still a €100 million saving compared to building the Adare bypass while also expanding local rail services across the whole of Limerick city with stations been added at Moyross and Ballysimon been included.

Ideally they should reopen the line to Foynes and Newcastle West also. Are Shannon Port Co. still interested in getting thr line reopened, maybe they might add something to it. Could also make reopening Charleville - Patrickswell more feasible at a later date and save us building an unnecessary motorway.

Not sure they necessarily need to add a greenway along side the line, wonder what cost that is adding.

No, it's not in replacement of the Adare bypass. The Adare bypass is an actual plan which is currently at ABP. This despite the headline is nowhere near being discussed by Cabinet and is using back of a matchbox sums to come up with a €200m figure. Reopening old 18th century alignments is not the answer to Limerick transports needs. A proper bus service and better cycling facilities (as the TD suggests) are much higher on the list of priorities for Limerick.

And no reopening the line to Charleville would not negate the M20 either.

Del.Monte · 12-08-2020 4:30pm

Why do two large 'towns' need a full motorway between them purely because the existing road is dangerous - just asking?

Losty Dublin · 12-08-2020 5:27pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Why do two large 'towns' need a full motorway between them purely because the existing road is dangerous - just asking?

Because there's already one between Ballyhere and Castlethere and I'll be danged if we don't get one too for this end of the county, ideally with a water pump at either end and a fireworks display nightly.

Cookiemunster · 12-08-2020 6:06pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Why do two large 'towns' need a full motorway between them purely because the existing road is dangerous - just asking?

Have a read of the M20 thread in the Roads Forum. All questions repeatedly answered.

Although you may be talking about the Adare bypass. In that case it's about linking the port of Foynes with the motorway network and the bypassing of Adare gets to happen in the process. Its not a about linking any two towns.

end of the road · 12-08-2020 6:35pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No, it's not in replacement of the Adare bypass. The Adare bypass is an actual plan which is currently at ABP. This despite the headline is nowhere near being discussed by Cabinet and is using back of a matchbox sums to come up with a €200m figure. Reopening old 18th century alignments is not the answer to Limerick transports needs. A proper bus service and better cycling facilities (as the TD suggests) are much higher on the list of priorities for Limerick.

And no reopening the line to Charleville would not negate the M20 either.

reopening old 18th century alignments where appropriate is absolutely part of the answer to limerick's transport issues and needs.
if other brand new corridors open up and are viable for rail then they should also be served.
a proper bus service is welcome but having it as thee only solution doesn't work, it cannot and does negate rail and will not get limerick out of the fact it needs a suburban rail service going forward.
reopening the line to Charleville isn't supposed to negate the motor way, it is there to be another transport option for the corridor and to remove non-necessary road users so that we require a lot lot longer between requirements to expand the motor way at great cost.

Cookiemunster · 12-08-2020 11:06pm

end of the road wrote: »

reopening old 18th century alignments where appropriate is absolutely part of the answer to limerick's transport issues and needs.
if other brand new corridors open up and are viable for rail then they should also be served.
a proper bus service is welcome but having it as thee only solution doesn't work, it cannot and does negate rail and will not get limerick out of the fact it needs a suburban rail service going forward.
reopening the line to Charleville isn't supposed to negate the motor way, it is there to be another transport option for the corridor and to remove non-necessary road users so that we require a lot lot longer between requirements to expand the motor way at great cost.

Old 18th century alignments are not the answer. The WRC shows this where the bus is much faster using the motorway. If commuter rail is going to be built, then it should be done properly, not half arsed on slow winding tracks.

And a direct rail connection from Cork to Limerick is part of the M20 design remit. Although a reconfiguration of Limerick Junction is probably the simplest and cheapest way to achieve this.

IE 222 · 13-08-2020 1:03am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No, it's not in replacement of the Adare bypass. The Adare bypass is an actual plan which is currently at ABP. This despite the headline is nowhere near being discussed by Cabinet and is using back of a matchbox sums to come up with a €200m figure. Reopening old 18th century alignments is not the answer to Limerick transports needs. A proper bus service and better cycling facilities (as the TD suggests) are much higher on the list of priorities for Limerick.

And no reopening the line to Charleville would not negate the M20 either.

Greens are in there now so wouldn't be surprised if the bypass was to be pulled. It's not really needed to be fair. 18th century, you make it out as though the line has been closed since the 1900's.

M20 will be the biggest waste of tax payers money. I travel the N20 regularly at rush hour and apart from a few more 2 plus 1 lanes between Croom and Newtwopothouse it doesn't need much upgrading. The M9 is empty for the best part and that leads to Dublin.

IE 222 · 13-08-2020 1:11am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And a direct rail connection from Cork to Limerick is part of the M20 design remit. Although a reconfiguration of Limerick Junction is probably the simplest and cheapest way to achieve this.

The Junction doesn't need to be reconfigured. Upgrading the N24 to Cahir would probably be a simpler and cheaper alternative to the M20 idea, don't suppose you're in favour of saving funds that way.

Cookiemunster · 13-08-2020 9:21am

IE 222 wrote: »

Greens are in there now so wouldn't be surprised if the bypass was to be pulled. It's not really needed to be fair. 18th century, you make it out as though the line has been closed since the 1900's.

The bypass won't be pulled. The Greens have already caved in on that one in the PFG. The bigger parties want these roads built. All they've gotten is the 2:1 commitment of spending for PT over roads with another commitment to revisit the infrastructure plans. And the improved connection to Foynes is a European Ten-T route so it will be built.

IE 222 wrote: »

M20 will be the biggest waste of tax payers money. I travel the N20 regularly at rush hour and apart from a few more 2 plus 1 lanes between Croom and Newtwopothouse it doesn't need much upgrading. The M9 is empty for the best part and that leads to Dublin.

IE 222 wrote: »

The Junction doesn't need to be reconfigured. Upgrading the N24 to Cahir would probably be a simpler and cheaper alternative to the M20 idea, don't suppose you're in favour of saving funds that way.

I'll just leave this post from the M20 thread of the roads fourm here.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

For the umpteenth time, it doesn't save money. It doesn't help the majority of people using the road, commuters into Cork and Limerick. It doesn't bypass the overchoked towns on the route. It doesn't replace the highly dangerous 19th century alignment along most of the route. It doesn't address the fact that Mallow to Blarney needs a dual carriage/motorway now. Any route other than following the N20 still leaves all these things needing to be done.

That plus the fact that the engineering team (the actual experts) have already looked at all the possible routes (6 of the 7 options involved some connection to the M8) and have already decided to follow the current M20 for the reasons stated in the above quoted post.

And I've no idea why the M9 from Waterford to Dublin is in any way relevant. The current N20 has a higher AADT that the M9. And that's on a dangerous narrow windy road with no hard shoulder for over hard the route.

goingnowhere · 13-08-2020 10:17am

Dublin barely has direct services to Limerick....

Cork Limerick is 1:40 by train today (well with the normal timetable) and that will reduce as the ongoing upgrades to line speeds continues

road_high · 13-08-2020 10:50am

IE 222 wrote: »

Greens are in there now so wouldn't be surprised if the bypass was to be pulled. It's not really needed to be fair. 18th century, you make it out as though the line has been closed since the 1900's.

M20 will be the biggest waste of tax payers money. I travel the N20 regularly at rush hour and apart from a few more 2 plus 1 lanes between Croom and Newtwopothouse it doesn't need much upgrading. The M9 is empty for the best part and that leads to Dublin.

This gets really tiresome. NRA traffic stats all suggest otherwise. They're easy to look up and compare with all the other motorways. If the M9 is empty then so are all the others.

road_high · 13-08-2020 10:52am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The bypass won't be pulled. The Greens have already caved in on that one in the PFG. The bigger parties want these roads built. All they've gotten is the 2:1 commitment of spending for PT over roads with another commitment to revisit the infrastructure plans. And the improved connection to Foynes is a European Ten-T route so it will be built.

I'll just leave this post from the M20 thread of the roads fourm here.

That plus the fact that the engineering team (the actual experts) have already looked at all the possible routes (6 of the 7 options involved some connection to the M8) and have already decided to follow the current M20 for the reasons stated in the above quoted post.

And I've no idea why the M9 from Waterford to Dublin is in any way relevant. The current N20 has a higher AADT that the M9. And that's on a dangerous narrow windy road with no hard shoulder for over hard the route.

Again no it doesn't. https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6

A couple of stretches of M9 and you could do the same for the M6/7/8/11

end of the road · 13-08-2020 12:13pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Old 18th century alignments are not the answer.

except again, where appropriate, as in they are going through areas of growth and potential growth, which the lines in limerick seem to be so, then they are the answer, new alinements are not going to be considered due to cost.
that is the reality of how rail operates in ireland.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The WRC shows this where the bus is much faster using the motorway.

except the WRC doesn't show your claim really, as the bus is only faster on the motor way at certain times and not by much in my experience.
the WRC also seems to have good numbers using it, and building it on a new alinement was never going to happen, so taking the existing route, which apart from flooding issues around ballycar isn't that bad.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

If commuter rail is going to be built, then it should be done properly, not half arsed on slow winding tracks.

it is not going to be done on slow winding tracks, those lines look to be reasonable enough.
just because a line was built in the 18th century does not automatically make it winding and slow.
it's about serving as much of the potential catchment as possible, and if existing alinements do that then they will in all likely hood, and should be used.
we would all love to see brand new railways, but the reality is it won't happen, so if it is a choice between existing alinements for reopenings and getting road usage down, and continued congestion, then the existing alinements and their faults will win.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And a direct rail connection from Cork to Limerick is part of the M20 design remit. Although a reconfiguration of Limerick Junction is probably the simplest and cheapest way to achieve this.

it may very well be, but going via limerick junction will be a longer way around.

IE 222 · 13-08-2020 1:18pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The bypass won't be pulled. The Greens have already caved in on that one in the PFG. The bigger parties want these roads built. All they've gotten is the 2:1 commitment of spending for PT over roads with another commitment to revisit the infrastructure plans. And the improved connection to Foynes is a European Ten-T route so it will be built.

I'll just leave this post from the M20 thread of the roads fourm here.

That plus the fact that the engineering team (the actual experts) have already looked at all the possible routes (6 of the 7 options involved some connection to the M8) and have already decided to follow the current M20 for the reasons stated in the above quoted post.

And I've no idea why the M9 from Waterford to Dublin is in any way relevant. The current N20 has a higher AADT that the M9. And that's on a dangerous narrow windy road with no hard shoulder for over hard the route.

A motorway is not required for the level of traffic on the N20. It's over kill.

M9 as a comparison is to show it also was not needed to built as a motorway for its entirety, maybe as far a Carlow.

road_high · 13-08-2020 1:27pm

IE 222 wrote: »

A motorway is not required for the level of traffic on the N20. It's over kill.

M9 as a comparison is to show it also was not needed to built as a motorway for its entirety, maybe as far a Carlow.

Read the traffic stats...by that assertion parts of the M6/7/8 and 11 shouldn't have been built either then as they're no differen to the M9 traffic levels- no doubt you'll agree

IE 222 · 13-08-2020 1:29pm

road_high wrote: »

This gets really tiresome. NRA traffic stats all suggest otherwise. They're easy to look up and compare with all the other motorways. If the M9 is empty then so are all the others.

Yeah I'd tend to agree that other motorways are fairly empty after certain points. Beyond Portlaoise M7/8 empty out. Once you reach the large regional towns most of the motorways are fairly empty until you reach the end destination.

We got carried away with motorways here. The M8 and a M24 with a large interchange at Cahir probably would of sufficed the whole south and saved us millions on building individual roads. Wouldn't of been the fastest routing but still would of been a large improvement.

dowlingm · 14-08-2020 1:55pm

Returning to the Adare railway line idea. I can’t see people in Adare being thrilled about their village becoming a railhead for commuters in Limerick and cheap/quick housing being thrown up all around it. Nothing I have heard about Limerick local government makes me thing anything else would happen.

To my mind, a Limerick-Adare shuttle for the Ryder Cup is difficult because it would imply a large park and ride somewhere and I can’t identify a plot of land which is large enough (even with temporary decking over parkland) AND good enough road access to move lots of cars in and out from various directions. Maybe the P&R would have to be somewhere on the Ennis, Limerick Junction or Nenagh lines

Trying to ram heavy rail through Carey’s Park and into the station proper should be to my mind the subject of a longer term project with much better justification than the Ryder fecking Cup

IE 222 · 15-08-2020 2:10am

dowlingm wrote: »

Returning to the Adare railway line idea. I can’t see people in Adare being thrilled about their village becoming a railhead for commuters in Limerick and cheap/quick housing being thrown up all around it. Nothing I have heard about Limerick local government makes me thing anything else would happen.

To my mind, a Limerick-Adare shuttle for the Ryder Cup is difficult because it would imply a large park and ride somewhere and I can’t identify a plot of land which is large enough (even with temporary decking over parkland) AND good enough road access to move lots of cars in and out from various directions. Maybe the P&R would have to be somewhere on the Ennis, Limerick Junction or Nenagh lines

Trying to ram heavy rail through Carey’s Park and into the station proper should be to my mind the subject of a longer term project with much better justification than the Ryder fecking Cup

Agree but we seem to get things built for the Ryder cup rather than local needs so if it means using the Ryder cup to get the ball rolling so be it.

Park and ride wouldn't be such an issue if you get people to arrive into Limerick by train in the first place. Dublin, Cork, Galway specials with a connection or running on direct would greatly reduce this issue.

intellectual dosser · 18-08-2020 12:48pm

Probably the wrong thread, and possibly discussed previously - so apologies - but is anyone aware of then the Heavy Rail Census reporting on 2019 will be available? I expect it has been delayed due to Covid but it seems in the past there is no set time of the year for it to be released.

metrovick001 · 01-09-2020 10:32pm

"Old 18th century alignments are not the answer" the funny thing is thats exactly what the new motorways have done

Cookiemunster · 02-09-2020 8:55am

metrovick001 wrote: »

"Old 18th century alignments are not the answer" the funny thing is thats exactly what the new motorways have done

What? The motorways are most definitely not following old 18th century alignments. They may roughly follow the route of the old roads they replaced, but that's about it. They are completely new roads on new straighter alignments allowing for grade separation and faster travel.

How you can't see that new straighter rail alignments, grade separated from the road network allowing quicker trains aren't better than reopening old slow alignments like Ennis - Athenry is beyond me.

River Suir · 02-09-2020 9:56am

I have no doubt that if the Department of Finance and the NTA gave railways the same priority as roads then money would be found immediately to build straighter alignments than the existing ones.

The biggest cost in railway construction is the purchase of the land on which to run the railway. Until Official Ireland recognises that sometimes it's more efficient to build new rail alignments the railway will always be bottom of the queue for upgrades.

bk · 02-09-2020 11:31am

River Suir wrote: »

I have no doubt that if the Department of Finance and the NTA gave railways the same priority as roads then money would be found immediately to build straighter alignments than the existing ones.

I see comments like this repeated a lot and I'm really surprised that folks don't really understand how government work.

Decisions on major infrastructure projects are not made by the NTA/TII/DoT, etc.

Such decisions are made right at the top, by the government cabinet. The above bodies only implement the decisions and policies made by cabinet, with funding made available to them by cabinet.

Isambard · 02-09-2020 12:44pm

we don't need TGV style alignments, just tweaking here and there to raise limits and tilting trains.

Losty Dublin · 02-09-2020 1:36pm

bk wrote: »

I see comments like this repeated a lot and I'm really surprised that folks don't really understand how government work.

Decisions on major infrastructure projects are not made by the NTA/TII/DoT, etc.

Such decisions are made right at the top, by the government cabinet. The above bodies only implement the decisions and policies made by cabinet, with funding made available to them by cabinet.

Yes the government of the day decides on what they want done but in practice Cabinet relies on their base departments to commission reports and studies and obtain stats and figures that are used to determine how their policy is implemented.

Pete_Cavan · 02-09-2020 1:56pm

River Suir wrote: »

The biggest cost in railway construction is the purchase of the land on which to run the railway.

That is absolutely not true. The cost of purchasing land is little compared to the cost of actual construction. Even where the land is already owned, the cost of rebuilding the railway is extremely high. Building and maintaining railways is extremely expensive.

River Suir · 02-09-2020 2:11pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

That is absolutely not true. The cost of purchasing land is little compared to the cost of actual construction. Even where the land is already owned, the cost of rebuilding the railway is extremely high. Building and maintaining railways is extremely expensive.

It would be helpful to give a breakdown of costs of such a project?

end of the road · 02-09-2020 2:44pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

What? The motorways are most definitely not following old 18th century alignments. They may roughly follow the route of the old roads they replaced, but that's about it. They are completely new roads on new straighter alignments allowing for grade separation and faster travel.

How you can't see that new straighter rail alignments, grade separated from the road network allowing quicker trains aren't better than reopening old slow alignments like Ennis - Athenry is beyond me.

it's you who keeps believing that we cannot see it.
reality is very, very different.
we are well aware that brand new alinements are better, however we are the realistic ones, who recognise that if we want to get lines reopened then it's the original route or nothing, and for the main suggested reopenings the routes are actually perfectly fine for the type of service that would be operated.
i believe ennis athenry is up to 80mph in places so not exactly slow if that is the case.

bk · 02-09-2020 5:27pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Yes the government of the day decides on what they want done but in practice Cabinet relies on their base departments to commission reports and studies and obtain stats and figures that are used to determine how their policy is implemented.

Absolutely and having read dozens of NTA reports over the years, I'm pretty sure they are made up of major transport geeks who really do want to do the right thing and implement international best practice on urban planning and transport development.

They make really great plans IMO. Clearly the problem is getting those plans through cabinet, getting the funding released and the shovels in the ground.

The truth of the matter is that outside of roads, politicians in Ireland have very little interest in major capital public transport projects.

If you want to change this, then you need to convince the politicians that it is in their interest.

Irish rail fleet and infrastructure plans

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