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Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

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Comments

  • #6212
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Boggles wrote: »
    We have the pinky promise infection control method, sure be grand.

    Maybe we might get it right after wave 2.

    They were asymptomatic though which means no strain on the health service. New cases is irrelevant, it's about managing those that need treatment.


  • #6213
    ZX7R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Airlines are not causing huge problems. For instance due to the constant filtration of air on a flight means it is virtually impossible to be infected while flying. Also new boarding procedures means that you are more likely to catch it while queuing for Penney’s.

    The issue is that people are allowed to fly in the first place and quarantine is only guidance. It is the same as everything else. Either it is prohibited by law or its not. Blaming airlines who are business as usual is just passing the buck.

    3 weeks ago polish airline lot had a repatriation flight for polish citizens needing to leave Ireland who could not wait for flights to resume in July.
    The whole flight was tested including children on arrival in Poland.
    Zero positive tests for all on board.
    Transmission by people traveling by air is and will be the new thing for people to complain about


  • #6214
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    They were asymptomatic though which means no strain on the health service. New cases is irrelevant, it's about managing those that need treatment.

    I think new cases are relevant. It would help the health service prepare for estimated hospitalisations. I think a pro active approach outside of the health service is better then a reactive approach when people start queuing at hospitals.


  • #6215
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    They were asymptomatic though which means no strain on the health service. New cases is irrelevant, it's about managing those that need treatment.

    We might as well get rid of testing so.

    :confused:


  • #6216
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ZX7R wrote: »
    Transmission by people traveling by air is and will be the new thing for people to complain about

    Transmission by international travel is what brought the disease to the island in the first place and will bring the disease back to the island. I thought everyone watched that movie, we know how it ends.

    Or do you think New Zealand are testing and finding the disease for the craic?

    Or because they like a moan.


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  • #6217
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It's 'you're', plus I never said we are no different than where were in March. Try not to misrepresent what is said, pathetic posting behaviour tbh.
    I see people practicing SD every single day including my workplace.

    Grammar nazism should not be tolerated. Person made a valid point. Please respect that.


  • #6218
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,345 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    ZX7R wrote: »
    3 weeks ago polish airline lot had a repatriation flight for polish citizens needing to leave Ireland who could not wait for flights to resume in July.
    The whole flight was tested including children on arrival in Poland.
    Zero positive tests for all on board.
    Transmission by people traveling by air is and will be the new thing for people to complain about

    But that’s the embassy who chartered the flight rather than the airline. My point is that similar to most things unless there are strict and enforceable rules the airline is the scapegoat. Same as pubs will be blamed if a spike occurs even if they do their best to follow ridiculous guidelines. But I do believe that you have a bigger chance of being infected on the air coach to the airport, the security queues, Burger King before, duty free than being on a sanitised air system on a plane. But I get your point.


  • #6219
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Airlines are not causing huge problems. For instance due to the constant filtration of air on a flight means it is virtually impossible to be infected while flying. Also new boarding procedures means that you are more likely to catch it while queuing for Penney’s.

    The issue is that people are allowed to fly in the first place and quarantine is only guidance. It is the same as everything else. Either it is prohibited by law or its not. Blaming airlines who are business as usual is just passing the buck.

    This is actually bull. Isn't there a two rows in front and two rows behind rule with catching infections on a plane.

    Now I don't know what's it like on planes now but I doubt you will have 5 rows to yourself. So not impossible to pick up infections while flying.


  • #6220
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    joeguevara wrote: »
    But that’s the embassy who chartered the flight rather than the airline. My point is that similar to most things unless there are strict and enforceable rules the airline is the scapegoat. Same as pubs will be blamed if a spike occurs even if they do their best to follow ridiculous guidelines. But I do believe that you have a bigger chance of being infected on the air coach to the airport, the security queues, Burger King before, duty free than being on a sanitised air system on a plane. But I get your point.

    It's not about getting infected on the flight or in the queue on the flight.

    It's about being infected and bringing that infection onto the island and potentially spreading it. You know, how the virus arrived here in the first place.

    Right now with very little footfall, there has been a minor amount of cases.

    In 11 days time the shackles are off and apparently because of lobbying from the industry the wishy washy pinky promise 14 day quarantine nonsense will be a thing of the past as well.


  • #6221
    ZX7R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    Boggles wrote: »
    Transmission by international travel is what brought the disease to the island in the first place and will bring the disease back to the island. I thought everyone watched that movie, we know how it ends.

    Or sd you think New Zealand are testing and finding the disease for the craic?

    Or because they like a moan.

    I believe you are the one who likes to have a moan.
    If you want Ireland to be like New Zealand call for a referendum for Ireland to leave the EU.
    Then you can live in a nice safe bubble.
    Our mandatory from to fill in the airport is here to stay for a long time , but our request for self isolation will go.
    International EU flights are going to resume fact.
    The only control of international flights we have control over is none EU flights we can stop them anytime we like.
    Just consider this Australia stated that they are baning all international travel.
    Within 15min there economy contracted 3% thats roughly 37 billion euro gone in a click of a finger and that does not include the contraction from the covid-19 shock it's self.
    Go ahead and lobby for a ban on travel.
    If you're happy to live in a real time dark age.


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  • #6222
    ZX7R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    joeguevara wrote: »
    But that’s the embassy who chartered the flight rather than the airline. My point is that similar to most things unless there are strict and enforceable rules the airline is the scapegoat. Same as pubs will be blamed if a spike occurs even if they do their best to follow ridiculous guidelines. But I do believe that you have a bigger chance of being infected on the air coach to the airport, the security queues, Burger King before, duty free than being on a sanitised air system on a plane. But I get your point.

    I agree with you ,I was just pointing out,
    No one on board tested positive


  • #6223
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ZX7R wrote: »
    I believe you are the one who likes to have a moan.
    .

    Pointing out reality is not having a moan.


  • #6224
    Cal4567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    It's becoming more simple as each week passes and we learn more. Regular hand washing, practice social distancing, work from home if you can and use masks on public transport. Looking at rates still around the world, no thanks. I'm staying at home for holidays this year. The same risk factor reasons.

    I'll take a view again in 2021 on all of these points. A second wave? I haven't a clue but I will minimise the risks for me and my loved ones.


  • #6225
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    sheepsh4gger wrote: »
    I'm under the impression that Varadkar values the economy more than reducing the death toll.

    There have been certain people screeching the exact opposite of that for the last 2 months and even after yesterday`s announcement I see that some are still complaining that the restrictions are too slow in being lifted or should never have been implemented in the first place.


  • #6226
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    There have been certain people screeching the exact opposite of that for the last 2 months and even after yesterday`s announcement I see that some are still complaining that the restrictions are too slow in being lifted or should never have been implemented in the first place.

    Yesterday was about politics not public safety.

    Leo was asked about the plan for the future, they don't have one.


  • #6227
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Boggles wrote: »
    Yesterday was about politics not public safety.

    Leo was asked about the plan for the future, they don't have one.
    I think that's understandable. It'll be down to the new shiny government to look at that. He's just bringing us up to July 20.


  • #6228
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Boggles wrote: »
    Transmission by international travel is what brought the disease to the island in the first place and will bring the disease back to the island. I thought everyone watched that movie, we know how it ends.

    Or do you think New Zealand are testing and finding the disease for the craic?

    Or because they like a moan.

    According to you and others on here we’re definitely going to have a second wave anyway so what difference is travel going to make?


  • #6229
    setanta1984
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭setanta1984


    sheepsh4gger wrote: »

    The worst of this thing is till to come. They say on CNBC that 60% need to contract the virus for this to end and we're nowhere near that. Stupid politicians are siding with businesses. This will not end well.

    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    There have been certain people screeching the exact opposite of that for the last 2 months and even after yesterday`s announcement I see that some are still complaining that the restrictions are too slow in being lifted or should never have been implemented in the first place.
    Boggles wrote: »
    Yesterday was about politics not public safety.

    Leo was asked about the plan for the future, they don't have one.

    A sincere simple question, what exactly is it that ye want?

    Continued lockdown like was in place in April until a vaccine? Or something else? Honest question.


  • #6230
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It's actually unbelievable people are still assuming the present pandemic bares any similarities with the Spanish flu.

    What is unbelievable is that you assume that it doesn`t without any evidence whatsoever backing up your statement.


  • #6231
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Neamhshuntasach wrote: »
    The whole key to all of this is keeping people out of hospital and keeping people out of ICU in particular. We know the profile of people who have mostly ended up there. These need to be protected and they also personally need to observe and embrace every form of recommended protection until there's a safe vaccine.

    A majority of people need to social distance and have good hygiene etiquette. I think that's the best we can do. You're never going to get everyone. You'll always see pockets of people who don't give a ****e about it. I've seen it in various areas having been around Dublin the past 2 weeks. You see an example of what looks like nobody is practicing any sort of distancing. Then you see people completely following it. We just need a majority of people doing it.

    Of course we're going to have daily case increases. And with what we know now, we should be able to act fast to identify and then isolate. Nobody bar a few idiots want us to ever go back to full on restrictions. It's bad for health, both physical and mental, and it's bad for the economy and personal finances. We need to keep any outbreaks localized and not look at case numbers nationally. They've already implied this. We know way more now than we did when all this started. And you eventually have to put the trust into the hands of the people that helped suppress the virus and hope that enough people can bring us forward without putting the hospitals under capacity strain. If we had unlimited hospital resources. This wouldn't even be an issue. It's all about hospitalizations going forward .

    While I agree with majority of what you are saying. Unfortunately it isn’t just about systematic failure. This disease gets up close and personal with families. It has the potential to change families forever and not in good ways. Weather it be long term health issues or death. It is best avoided. Business owners have their own priorities.


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  • #6232
    PixieValentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86 ✭✭PixieValentine


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Leo's Mean Girls quote, is beyond pathetic.

    The insensitivity. Had Boris or the Donald done something similar, the usual outrage people would be all over it. They seem to apply different standards to our own.

    You know there's plenty of people all over it here too? Plenty of people liked it, but equally plenty of people really didn't, and he got a right savaging over it. As to the different standards, with respect, you can think the quote is dumb, but I'd argue there's different standards for Leo tossing in one humorous reference than either of those two, because they earned different standards. He's worked hard, tried to unite the country, and has taken it seriously from early on. He has told us how serious it is in every speech he's given for months. Even yesterday's, though the Mean Girls quote is the one dumb line getting talked about, he spent most of it emphasising how seriously we still need to take the virus. BJ & Trump, on the other hand, did not even begin to take the virus seriously until reality smacked them in the face, and have more than once appeared to have little clue what they were talking about in various speeches on the subject. Boris thought just telling people to take it on the chin was the best way forward and Trump initially tried to pass it off as a democratic hoax and then ignored it and then was little help to anyone even once he did start paying attention.

    Did Leo handle all of this perfectly? Nope, absolutely not. But he never seems to have thought "herd immunity" was plan a, or any plan at all. A lighthearted quote from a movie or a book thrown in when we're actually in an optimistic place, when we are in a demonstrably better place than we were a couple months ago, is a far, far cry from Boris and his insensitive quip about "operation last gasp" or Trump and his bleach recommendation. There's a reason people are seeing it differently from him, and would see it differently if Boris or Trump did it. It's based on their behaviour and their handling of the whole of this last 4 months. (And I'm not trying to say that because he approached it better than them then his approach was perfect. I'm only talking about why people would judge it differently if it was them.)


  • #6233
    Mwengwe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    Gyms reopening in 8 days seems pretty crazy to me.


  • #6234
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,909 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    jackboy wrote: »
    What about the new Roche antibody test that is 100% accurate?

    No. The problem with antibody tests is that as scientists learn more, it's starting to appear that the antibody tests are looking for the wrong thing. The T-Cell response to the virus may be a more important factor as a significant number of patients either produce no or a tiny amount of antibodies. And many who do produce antibodies, have those antibody levels drop very quickly to low levels not detectable by these tests. So all a negative antibody test means is that a person did not have detectable antibody levels at the time of the test. It doesn't mean they didn't have Covid. It now appears that the best way to check for past infection is to look for changes for the T-Helper cell CD4. Those changes appear permanent so when an efficient way to do mass testing for those changes is developed, that's when we'll actually know how many people were infected by Covid. Mass antibody testing is somewhat useful but it's a very blunt instrument that isn't going to give us a true picture.

    And in case that sounds very depressing, so many people with past Covid infections having no/undetectable levels of antibodies does not mean they have no immunity. It's looking more and more likely that there is decent mid-long term immunity for most people who have recovered. Which is good news both for past infectees and in terms of vaccine development.


  • #6235
    Rob A. Bank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Rob A. Bank


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    They were asymptomatic though which means no strain on the health service. New cases is irrelevant, it's about managing those that need treatment.

    Jesus wept!

    Is that a quote from the Irish branch of the Joel Bolsonaro liúdramáns club handbook ?


  • #6236
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    According to you and others on here we’re definitely going to have a second wave anyway so what difference is travel going to make?

    Well no, it's not according to me, bizarre thing to say, I'm not a public health official or a scientist. :confused:

    According to them you mean.

    But again how is pointing out the fact that international travel will spread the virus suddenly a taboo subject that gets you called names?

    It's a novel virus with no immunity or vaccine. I second wave is pretty much inevitable. (again not my opinion). Or have you some information that something has changed on that front, I'll gladly take a look.

    A second wave does not have to be devastating though but that comes down to readiness and planning.

    We ain't ready and we don't have a plan.

    Hopefully we take the small window we have to get ready and formulate a plan.


  • #6237
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,225 ✭✭✭jackboy


    iguana wrote: »
    No. The problem with antibody tests is that as scientists learn more, it's starting to appear that the antibody tests are looking for the wrong thing. The T-Cell response to the virus may be a more important factor as a significant number of patients either produce no or a tiny amount of antibodies. And many who do produce antibodies, have those antibody levels drop very quickly to low levels not detectable by these tests. So all a negative antibody test means is that a person did not have detectable antibody levels at the time of the test. It doesn't mean they didn't have Covid. It now appears that the best way to check for past infection is to look for changes for the T-Helper cell CD4. Those changes appear permanent so when an efficient way to do mass testing for those changes is developed, that's when we'll actually know how many people were infected by Covid. Mass antibody testing is somewhat useful but it's a very blunt instrument that isn't going to give us a true picture.

    And in case that sounds very depressing, so many people with past Covid infections having no/undetectable levels of antibodies does not mean they have no immunity. It's looking more and more likely that there is decent mid-long term immunity for most people who have recovered. Which is good news both for past infectees and in terms of vaccine development.
    So if someone has very low antibody levels and these changes to the T helper cells that you mentioned, this means that they have some level of immunity.

    If that is true the companies that put massive resources into developing antibody tests now need to start from scratch. However, as the FDA have already approved the ineffective tests, there is less incentive. Surely in such a situation the FDA should pull the approvals for these antibody tests.


  • #6238
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    setanta1984 wrote: »
    A sincere simple question, what exactly is it that ye want?

    Continued lockdown like was in place in April until a vaccine? Or something else? Honest question.

    The plan that was announced 2 weeks ago should have been stuck to. I think the announcement yesterday of the acceleration is too hasty and some of the measures in particular the public indoor gatherings numbers may have to be rowed back on if there are negative consequences.


  • #6239
    Rob A. Bank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Rob A. Bank


    Mwengwe wrote: »
    Gyms reopening in 8 days seems pretty crazy to me.

    Seems crazy to me too and I doubt if our tracing is comparable with that of South Korea.

    From the CDC... Cluster of Coronavirus Disease Associated with Fitness Dance Classes, South Korea

    27 South Korean fitness instructors participated in the workshop on February 15th and trained intensely for 4 hours... 8 had positive real-time reverse transcription PCR (RT-PCR) results for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2.

    "By March 9, we identified 112 COVID-19 cases associated with fitness dance classes in 12 different sports facilities in Cheonan"


  • #6240
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Boggles wrote: »

    Maybe we might get it right after wave 2.

    Oh maybe i picked up this qoute wrong or you were just joking.

    Regarding travel, in a perfect world you seem to think Ireland is or going to be virus free and then someone from abroad is going to come in and start off a second wave.

    The virus is here to stay it’s not going away. It’s already here. People travelling into the country from countries that have successfully supressed the virus won’t be the problem. It’s our own people moving within Ireland travelling around. The luas, Dublin bus, the Dart, Bus Eireann, trains etc etc. I’d be more worried about that to be honest. Not to mention future large gatherings.

    International travel will have to resume at some stage. People have familes in other countries. It’s not all about sun and getting pissed on a beach.


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  • #6241
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    Regarding travel, in a perfect world you seem to think Ireland is or going to be virus free and then someone from abroad is going to come in and start off a second wave.

    Sorry, but where did I give you the impression, that Ireland, Europe or the world will be virus free in the short term? :confused: You are applying your own fantasy to my views which are entirely based on science and the opinions of doctors and scientists.
    Micky 32 wrote: »
    International travel will have to resume at some stage. People have familes in other countries. It’s not all about sun and getting pissed on a beach.

    1st July and will exponentially grow throughout the summer.


This discussion has been closed.
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