How will schools be able to go back in September?

iamwhoiam · 17-06-2020 09:57PM

Murple wrote: »

Can I ask you what training you think should be given on ‘how to deal with things’?

I think teachers should get training in how to deal with kids anxiety on return to school
On how to cope and manage worried children , on how to deal with being aware of a sick child and the protocols in place fir that etc

jrosen · 17-06-2020 09:59PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Training in how to cope with stressed children . Training in how to deal with anxiety in childen . Training in recognising symptoms or how to deal with a suspected case of Covid . Training in teaching children to cope with a different school experience if need be .
Etc etc

Symptoms of covid have been shoved in our faces since march.

The only time you could be trained in any of these is over the Summer. Is this something thats available to you?

But I would have thought teachers had some training /guidance when it comes to stress and anxiety in students?

meeeeh · 17-06-2020 10:10PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Children with underlying conditions need to be thought about . Children spread Covid as well as adults do, we need to be thinking in terms of the children with health issues , the school staff and the wider school community such as parents and grandparents .
Socially , children can now visit playgrounds and also interact with their peers , so that’s a start

Children who have an underlying condition might need to be homescooled for a bit longer. While kids do transmit the disease as far as I know asymptomatic (as opposed to (presympthomatic) people don't seem to be infections. I think it was established that unlike flu children are not significant vectors of the disease. Frankly going to a playground is not a replacement for contact with their friends and also navigation of different relationships between peers, groups and people in position of authority. I think parents are accused that we expect teachers to be childminders. Well our society is built on children to be socialised and educated in school. That can't be replaced by stressed parents trying to work (to pay bills) and figure out how to home school.

Department of Education is probably just about the worst performing department but it's depressing to see how predictable the reaction from unions is. We are again told what can't and shouldn't be done. Why for a change not look how things could be done.

wirelessdude01 · 17-06-2020 10:11PM

Deeec wrote: »

Wireless dude I am guessing you don't have any children. Not every parent is at home doing nothing and 'couldnt be bothered' as you put it. Parents are stressed out trying to teach several children while trying to work from home and also while trying to look after babies and toddlers. Your suggestion that parents cant be bothered is very insulting - You dont know the circumstances of each household and every household is different. It has been very difficult trying to juggle everything. Children whose parents are not working or are an only child are at a huge advantage for homeschooling being successful. Most parents are trying their best and putting in very long days to try and homeschool and also meet the requiremments of their jobs. I do understand that teachers have been working without any guidance from the Dept of Education and doing their best. Please understand that most parents are also trying their best in very stressful circumstances.

When I say they couldn't be bothered I really do mean they couldn't be bothered. I had three families tell me that they wouldn't do any of the work that I would be giving or doing with my class. I had various different excuses about why it took 5 families between 4 and 6 weeks to log in to Google classroom. I could go on if you like. This is my experience. I had two families ring my principal to say I had done nothing. Loved that I was able to show my principal all I had done and the various login logs for the various sites and apps that I used that showed that the two families had never bothered to actually log in. People seem to forget that anything online has an electronic trail.

As I said I don't tend to BS and don't respond well when people aren't straight. Thankfully I have a principal who doesn't believe everything that lands on her desk.

iamwhoiam · 17-06-2020 10:15PM

jrosen wrote: »

Symptoms of covid have been shoved in our faces since march.

The only time you could be trained in any of these is over the Summer. Is this something thats available to you?

But I would have thought teachers had some training /guidance when it comes to stress and anxiety in students?

I am not sure what you mean by “ is this available to you “ ?

Deeec · 17-06-2020 10:16PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There is a process in place for this ( it was sent out by the DES ten weeks in .) I’d suggest you follow this as it’s certainly not the norm in most schools and those schools drag the rest of us down.

I have always been happy with my childrens school, however methods of homeschooling have been very poor during covid. I dont blame the teachers - it is the Principle who set up the process. My children just received one email per week from their teachers with a work plan ( large amount of work) for the week listing what needed to be covered. We were told not to send completed work back to teachers. We were expected to teach our children new topics with no guidance on how to go about this. No online tutorials meetings, no phonecalls etc from teachers. My guess is the one email per week ticks the box for homeschooling unfortunately in the principles view. This same method would be unworkable for September.and thats why I am so worried about lack of clarity. Friends with children in other schools have said their schools and teachers could'nt have done more to help them. I feel we have got a very raw deal.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 17-06-2020 10:17PM

Looks like pubs and restaurants are going to be getting that exemption from social distancing and will be allowed to have the 1m rule instead.

There will be very few places still carrying on with social distancing come September.

Bar hand sanitisers and signage its on its way out and is already non existent for a lot of workers.

meeeeh · 17-06-2020 10:18PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

When I say they couldn't be bothered I really do mean they couldn't be bothered. I had three families tell me that they wouldn't do any of the work that I would be giving or doing with my class. I had various different excuses about why it took 5 families between 4 and 6 weeks to log in to Google classroom. I could go on if you like. This is my experience. I had two families ring my principal to say I had done nothing. Loved that I was able to show my principal all I had done and the various login logs for the various sites and apps that I used that showed that the two families had never bothered to actually log in. People seem to forget that anything online has an electronic trail.

As I said I don't tend to BS and don't respond well when people aren't straight. Thankfully I have a principal who doesn't believe everything that lands on her desk.

From perspective of those children it actually doesn't matter whether you did nothing or their parents did nothing. We need schools back to give kids like that some sort of a chance.

khalessi · 17-06-2020 10:18PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Looks like pubs and restaurants are going to be getting that exemption from social distancing and will be allowed to have the 1m rule instead.

There will be very few places still carrying on with social distancing come September.

Bar hand sanitisers and signage its on its way out and is already non existent for a lot of workers.

And for a lot of workers it is still in existance

jrosen · 17-06-2020 10:26PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am not sure what you mean by “ is this available to you “ ?

The training you mention that is needed by teachers? Is this available for teachers?

Deeec · 17-06-2020 10:27PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

When I say they couldn't be bothered I really do mean they couldn't be bothered. I had three families tell me that they wouldn't do any of the work that I would be giving or doing with my class. I had various different excuses about why it took 5 families between 4 and 6 weeks to log in to Google classroom. I could go on if you like. This is my experience. I had two families ring my principal to say I had done nothing. Loved that I was able to show my principal all I had done and the various login logs for the various sites and apps that I used that showed that the two families had never bothered to actually log in. People seem to forget that anything online has an electronic trail.

As I said I don't tend to BS and don't respond well when people aren't straight. Thankfully I have a principal who doesn't believe everything that lands on her desk.

I do hear what you are saying and I know you are correct - there will always be parents who don't care. The majority of parents do care however and are trying their best to ensure everything gets covered. Im just saying it is really really really hard for us to combine everything and teachers need to be understanding of us. Trust me home working and homeschooling at the same time is very difficult.

wirelessdude01 · 17-06-2020 10:28PM

meeeeh wrote: »

From perspective of those children it actually doesn't matter whether you did nothing or their parents did nothing. We need schools back to give kids like that some sort of a chance.

If you bothered to read my posts I think it's quite obvious where I stand on this. Where I stand with regards to guidance and guidelines has also been clearly stated. Both are hugely intertwined whether people agree with them or not. It's a very fluid situation but we can't just have a situation where the dept don't bother with telling us what is required. That isn't fair on an schools, the people in them or their respective families.

wirelessdude01 · 17-06-2020 10:30PM

jrosen wrote: »

The training you mention that is needed by teachers? Is this available for teachers?

I'll answer this, NO. That would mean money having to be spent . Anyone with half a brain knows that education funding is abysmal in Ireland.

iamwhoiam · 17-06-2020 10:30PM

jrosen wrote: »

The training you mention that is needed by teachers? Is this available for teachers?

I have no idea !! I am not a teacher ! I said I hopped it would be available if needed

meeeeh · 17-06-2020 10:33PM

jrosen wrote: »

The training you mention that is needed by teachers? Is this available for teachers?

When we reopened we had to do a Risk Assessment, implement precautions, adapt workplace, work procedures and so on. We are a company of 20. Are you telling me that schools, principals, unions and Department of Education are unable to put together some sort of work practices and advise their employees/members? And even worse, it is already decided that nothing can be done two months away from school reopening.

khalessi · 17-06-2020 10:39PM

meeeeh wrote: »

When we reopened we had to do a Risk Assessment, implement precautions, adapt workplace, work procedures and so on. We are a company of 20. Are you telling me that schools, principals, unions and Department of Education are unable to put together some sort of work practices and advise their employees/members? And even worse, it is already decided that nothing can be done two months away from school reopening.

Yep that was what we looked for and expected last week and yep not done. A suggestd risk assessment document was sent in to them that could have been issued and adapted to each school
I know it is done unofficially by my principal but that is the stuff that the Department were supposed to get their finger out and sort.

I know from meetings in school we have informally been discussing this but nothin formal can be done without official department guidelines. Bureaucracy
gone mad. The red tape just to get them to order hand sanitizer has been unreal.

In the best of times I provide pencils, rubbers rulers. books in some cases, copies, cleaning products and cloths for my classroom even sweeping brushes and pans. and that is normal for most teachers

There is an ongoing joke in teaching that it is the only job you steal from home and bring to work.

wirelessdude01 · 17-06-2020 10:41PM

khalessi wrote: »

Yep that was what we looked for and expected last week and yep not done.
I know it is done unofficially by my principal but that is the stuff that the Department were supposed to get their finger out and sort.

I know from meetings in school we have informally been discussing this but nothin formal can be done without official department guidelines. Bureaucracy
gone mad. The red tape just to get them to order hand sanitizer has been unreal.

In the best of times I provide pencils, rubbers rulers. books in some cases, copies, cleaning products and cloths for my classroom even sweeping brushes and pans. and that is normal for most teachers

There is an ongoing joke in teaching that it is the only job you steal from home and bring to work.

Actually the hoops that had to be jumped through from an insurance aspect with Allianz to organise books to be given back to kids was ridiculous.

wirelessdude01 · 17-06-2020 10:41PM

khalessi wrote: »

Yep that was what we looked for and expected last week and yep not done.
I know it is done unofficially by my principal but that is the stuff that the Department were supposed to get their finger out and sort.

I know from meetings in school we have informally been discussing this but nothin formal can be done without official department guidelines. Bureaucracy
gone mad. The red tape just to get them to order hand sanitizer has been unreal.

In the best of times I provide pencils, rubbers rulers. books in some cases, copies, cleaning products and cloths for my classroom even sweeping brushes and pans. and that is normal for most teachers

There is an ongoing joke in teaching that it is the only job you steal from home and bring to work.

Actually the hoops that had to be jumped through from an insurance aspect with Allianz to organise books to be given back to kids was ridiculous.

khalessi · 17-06-2020 10:57PM

Do you know what amazes me.

That there is a discussion going on about the 1 hr 45 minutes time limit for pubs being discussed on another thread and that the document is unworkable. The discussion is fine but the fact that pubs got a document issued over schools!!!!

Someone took the time to issue a document on pubs and we couldnt get any suggestions from the Department who have had since March to think about this.

I think that is so sad. Pubs are more important than education it seems. Education is necessary pubs are entertainment and they have gotten more attention from our government.
But it is ok we got soap

kandr10 · 17-06-2020 11:00PM

meeeeh wrote: »

When we reopened we had to do a Risk Assessment, implement precautions, adapt workplace, work procedures and so on. We are a company of 20. Are you telling me that schools, principals, unions and Department of Education are unable to put together some sort of work practices and advise their employees/members? And even worse, it is already decided that nothing can be done two months away from school reopening.

Individual schools would of course be capable of doing this alone. However, without a centralised standardised approach at department level, you’ll end up with a situation similar to The home schooling whereby some schools do their part, other schools are unable to despite the best will in the world due to lack of funding and others (hopefully) a minority, may be inept at putting correct procedures in place. A school where parents are able to find the shortfall financially to get sanitisers etc would fare much better than a deis school where the same is not an option.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 17-06-2020 11:02PM

khalessi wrote: »

In the best of times I provide pencils, rubbers rulers. books in some cases, copies, cleaning products and cloths for my classroom even sweeping brushes and pans. and that is normal for most teachers

There is an ongoing joke in teaching that it is the only job you steal from home and bring to work.

Just on this because it always puzzles me, why aren't the parents being asked to supply the likes of copies, stationery etc?

I get handed back a pile of unused copies without fail at the end of every single year (all were on the booklist) it's not one or two more like 10-15 unused copies. I always thought they put extra on everyone's list as 'spares' in the event that there would be some kid who wouldn't have any??

khalessi · 17-06-2020 11:07PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Just on this because it always puzzles me, why aren't the parents being asked to supply the likes of copies, stationery etc?

I get handed back a pile of unused copies without fail at the end of every single year (all were on the booklist) it's not one or two more like 10-15 unused copies. I always thought they put extra on everyone's list as 'spares' in the event that there would be some kid who wouldn't have any??

Parents are but it is never enough and not all parents provide it. Like art supplies. Parents also have enough expenses with vountary contributions and uniforms etc.

The first year I started teaching I was in learning support and was handed one dice and a bag of marbles as my resources. I spent 1800e that year building supplies which go with me from class to class. I generally spend about 400e a year topping up school supplies. Now someone will pop up and go oh you get 600 flat rate expenses that goes on clothes for school.

Thats why when kids buy me magnets or school supplies I am happy out.

Mrsmum · 17-06-2020 11:09PM

Deeec wrote: »

I do hear what you are saying and I know you are correct - there will always be parents who don't care. The majority of parents do care however and are trying their best to ensure everything gets covered. Im just saying it is really really really hard for us to combine everything and teachers need to be understanding of us. Trust me home working and homeschooling at the same time is very difficult.

I was watching something on telly the other day and they were discussing home schooling. The sports commentator, Evanne Ni Chuilinn was saying how it wasn't working for her and her child/children at all at all. Then she said her mother, who is a teacher, told her you can't be both parent and schoolteacher and to just leave the homework. To involve the children in household stuff and teach them in that way. I also am friendly with a teacher who has a little girl in junior infants. She told me she told her child's teacher that they wouldn't be engaging in any work sent home because as she explained to me the work sent home is for the masses, not individually tailored. And again that she would be teaching her child through home activities. And then you have other parents fighting every day with their children to get every last bit of the set homework done and it's almost to the point the work is being done to satisfy the teacher rather than for the good of the child. Home schooling is all over the shop.

Dental Floss · 17-06-2020 11:12PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think remote learning, which in lots of cases meant no learning, was something we could tolerate from March to May/June because well everyone was thrown in at the deep end and it was enough to just keep afloat considering all the individual difficulties people were dealing with. We're alot further down the road now & we know we have to live alongside this virus and that means workers who need to be physically present to do their jobs need to go back working and that our children need a proper full time education.
Being very blunt about it, for all hospital staff, from doctors to cleaners, our starting point was patients must be cared for, for grocery stores & haulage companies our starting point was food (& toilet paper)needed to be available to buy, for gardai, that we needed them out there, for bus drivers, that transport was essential and so forth. And from that starting point, whatever was required to the best of our ability was provided for the employees. We even sent a call out for medical personnel to come home from abroad and converted hotels into hospitals. We had huge plane loads of PPE flown in from China.
So now I think the time is nigh to be getting real about education. We need to be approaching the school issue that all students, except the vulnerable, need to go back full time in Sept. That this is as necessary as carers in nursing homes and food in the shops. Our children's education should not be way down the priority line. The Government and D of Ed need a kick up the backside. They need to stop tinkering around with this and start spending money doing whatever it takes. Because this remote/blended learning is codology and utterly failing our children.

Exactly. Well said.

wirelessdude01 · 17-06-2020 11:39PM

Think the most important thing for every school is that there has to be a uniform approach. This has to be built on a structure that has to come from the dept. No ifs, buts or maybes. That has to be the starting point. Schools shouldn't have to scrambling around trying to find hand sanitisers or dispensers. Govt should be providing all of that but we know they won't. There will be a big deal made of a nicely choreographed press conference where X,y and z is promised. The word millions will be thrown around and to Joe public it will appear like the right things are being done and said. The reality will be somewhat different but will be all about appearances.

mcsean2163 · 17-06-2020 11:56PM

Boggles wrote: »

Well no, I am not assuming anything, it's not my opinion.

Evidence based science conclusively proves the restrictions controlled the spread of the virus, it's absolutely irrefutable and bizarre in the extreme that a functioning adult at this stage would hold such a view.

Unless you can cite some other credible science based evidence that a similar novel virus would have just burned itself out in the same time frame with the same adverse effects without mitigation?

I'll gladly take a peek.

Doesn't the influenza virus recede in the summer months?

screamer · 18-06-2020 07:37AM

Mrsmum wrote: »

I was watching something on telly the other day and they were discussing home schooling. The sports commentator, Evanne Ni Chuilinn was saying how it wasn't working for her and her child/children at all at all. Then she said her mother, who is a teacher, told her you can't be both parent and schoolteacher and to just leave the homework. To involve the children in household stuff and teach them in that way. I also am friendly with a teacher who has a little girl in junior infants. She told me she told her child's teacher that they wouldn't be engaging in any work sent home because as she explained to me the work sent home is for the masses, not individually tailored. And again that she would be teaching her child through home activities. And then you have other parents fighting every day with their children to get every last bit of the set homework done and it's almost to the point the work is being done to satisfy the teacher rather than for the good of the child. Home schooling is all over the shop.

When has homework ever been tailored for each child, we’ve always been treated as the masses. How could any teacher set individual homework? Jees some people are too precious, I feel sorry for teachers having to deal with parents like that.
You can be teacher and parent to your child, we all are from the time they’re born so that’s a load of bull also, it’s the will and interest to help your child get their work done that’s the difference between parents, and yes I work a full time job at home since lockdown with 3 kids here on my own to look after and home school.

screamer · 18-06-2020 07:39AM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Doesn't the influenza virus recede in the summer months?

Absolutely and comes back with a vengeance in October till April- what is known as flu season. Covid19 is a virus so it doesn’t take Einstein to figure out that it will be circulating at higher levels in the flu season when we’re all crammed back into our offices and schools..... but hey, the nay sayers are many.

Mrsmum · 18-06-2020 07:54AM

screamer wrote: »

When has homework ever been tailored for each child, we’ve always been treated as the masses. How could any teacher set individual homework? Jees some people are too precious, I feel sorry for teachers having to deal with parents like that.
You can be teacher and parent to your child, we all are from the time they’re born so that’s a load of bull also, it’s the will and interest to help your child get their work done that’s the difference between parents, and yes I work a full time job at home since lockdown with 3 kids here on my own to look after and home school.

Did you even read my post ? It was not I or even any ordinary parent who said these things you object to. It was the opinion of two teachers, of long experience and in the know, I was quoting. And for the record, of course you can be teacher and parent, that's what parenting is to a huge extent, every parent does it to the best of their ability and beyond but there is a big difference between being teacher and being a schoolteacher same as parents nurse their children regularly but they also know when their child needs a real nurse/doctor.

lulublue22 · 18-06-2020 10:25AM

jrosen wrote: »

Im actually not worried about my children, they are strong healthy children with no underlying conditions. I have no more reason to be worried about them retuning to school this year than any other year.

That’s great that you are in such a position. There are many children who are not - those children are as much entitled to an education as any other child. The dep needs to issue clear guidelines which outlines procedures to be followed in relation to children and staff who may be adversely affected by covid19.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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