How will schools be able to go back in September?

Muscles Schultz · 14-06-2020 01:26PM

Insidious wrote: »

I just watched the news from last night… I am so annoyed!
After all the sacrifices… all the deaths.. not seeing family or friends for months in an effort to suppress Covid 19… The Government are just going to send all the children back to school in September.
As far as I can tell it’s to hell with social distancing…
If this is the case why did you not run the state exams.. What’s the difference..
Now education is more important than lives.. I honestly don’t know what to say.
To all the healthcare workers and frontline staff in our hospitals this is shameful if it comes about.. They will drive us back in to the center of a new outbreak just as the Flu season starts..

This may be the start of a new Government. I won’t forget and If they follow through on this… I’ll see them in the next election with the memory of the consequences of their decisions.
They made mistakes at the start with Cheltenham and visiting Nursing homes but they were learning in a difficult situation.
This will be different. This will be a decision with the full knowledge of what happened before.
Apologies.. I needed to have a rant.. Am I wrong? I guess I could be but damn I’m annoyed just now!

Yes you are wrong. In years to come there will be studies on effects of the long down and the very irrational fear associated with a return to normal.

14-06-2020 01:32PM

Insidious wrote: »

I just watched the news from last night… I am so annoyed!
After all the sacrifices… all the deaths.. not seeing family or friends for months in an effort to suppress Covid 19… The Government are just going to send all the children back to school in September.
As far as I can tell it’s to hell with social distancing…
If this is the case why did you not run the state exams.. What’s the difference..
Now education is more important than lives.. I honestly don’t know what to say.
To all the healthcare workers and frontline staff in our hospitals this is shameful if it comes about.. They will drive us back in to the center of a new outbreak just as the Flu season starts..

This may be the start of a new Government. I won’t forget and If they follow through on this… I’ll see them in the next election with the memory of the consequences of their decisions.
They made mistakes at the start with Cheltenham and visiting Nursing homes but they were learning in a difficult situation.
This will be different. This will be a decision with the full knowledge of what happened before.
Apologies.. I needed to have a rant.. Am I wrong? I guess I could be but damn I’m annoyed just now!

When I saw the title of the thread, I first thought that you might be annoyed that it was being left so late. I myself, would be an advocate of kids going back sooner, maybe part time to see how distancing can work in a practical sense, if at all. I was really hoping to see some creative responses such as piloting some schools with distancing, and if all goes well then a full return.
I have been really disappointed that the education of our kids has been put on hold for so long without any form of creative response either from the government or the teachers organisations themselves.

khalessi · 14-06-2020 01:36PM

JL555 wrote: »

When I saw the title of the thread, I first thought that you might be annoyed that it was being left so late. I myself, would be an advocate of kids going back sooner, maybe part time to see how distancing can work in a practical sense, if at all. I was really hoping to see some creative responses such as piloting some schools with distancing, and if all goes well then a full return.
I have been really disappointed that the education of our kids has been put on hold for so long without any form of creative response either from the government or the teachers organisations themselves.

The INTO sent in a document with suggestions over a month ago. The Department of Ed promised guidelines to be issued on Friday and instead we got a list of wishful thinking, nothing solid a school could use to plan with and adapt. The Department have been a huge disappointment

Cyrus · 14-06-2020 02:04PM

screamer wrote: »

SARS totally different to covid19, it never got out of the traps to spread worldwide....

Those thinking normal will ever be normal again until we have either a vaccine or cure for covid19 are absolutely living in cloud cuckoo land and would be the very ones who’d scream blue murder if their little Johnny came home from school with covid. We need to be sensible about this. A second wave will come have no doubt, our approach may be different but thinking schools can just go back full steam ahead is wishful thinking

Those thinking there’s any certainty of a cure or vaccine are pretty misguided as well you could be a long time waiting

average_runner · 14-06-2020 02:25PM

History Queen wrote: »

As a teacher I can see between 150 and 250 students a day in my room for 40 mins at a time. I respectfully disagree that all we can hope for is masks. I want to see full cleaning procedures. My classroom gets bins emptied daily and hoovered every second day by school cleaners, I wipe down desks at the end of every day but I've only been doing the tops of the desks and with an "all purpose cleaner" i brought from home, I haven't been cleaning chairs/windows/doors etc. My classroom is a prefab so I (and my students) have no access to handwashing facilities when in my room.

I would like to see a hand sanatiser at the door to my room (cheaper than installing a sink), and strict protocols around symptomatic students and teachers. I fully accept that 2m social distancing is unworkable if we want students in school full time. I'll accept not having that, if we have other robust procedures in place. Such as strict protocols for dealing with symptomatic staff and students, better handwashing and toileting facilities, reduced movement in the corridor, massively increased cleaning regime both in classrooms and in the common school areas etc.

I'm not sure if it is possible to teach in a mask all day every day from a speaking and listening point of view, maybe those perspex shield things that you wear would work? Not sure if they're effective?

I agree certain things will need to be in place, obviously a secondary school your in. So maybe students dont switch class rooms, hand cleaning a must, temps taken, maybe all homework should on tablets or laptops.

average_runner · 14-06-2020 02:28PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

Unfortunately many class rooms are specialised in second level and used for specific subjects. Also most groups by third year are broken into higher and ordinary classes for certain subjects, so very few students would spend a great deal of time with their base group. While senior level students are everywhere due to the options picked for their timetables.

A bit of forward thinking by the school can get around alot of this.
But they be playing sports etc.
Teachers staff room need to go also as alot of teachers would be parents and could spread the virus from there.

History Queen · 14-06-2020 02:32PM

average_runner wrote: »

I agree certain things will need to be in place, obviously a secondary school your in. So maybe students dont switch class rooms, hand cleaning a must, temps taken, maybe all homework should on tablets or laptops.

Our students don't have lsptops and tablets and wouldn't be able to afford them in most cases. Perhaps a grant scheme for those in need?

Base classes could help to a degree but are limited in effectivness due to different subject options and levels as well as the fact that specialist subjects such as metalwork/home ec/art need specific equipmemt and class rooms.

There are no easy solutions but there is no doubt that the Dept of Education putting forward no solutions/options/possibilities is just not acceptable. Schools are crying out for guidance so they can get going on making the necessary changes to infrastructure/staffing/timetables etc.

TheValeyard · 14-06-2020 02:32PM

average_runner wrote: »

A bit of forward thinking by the school can get around alot of this.
But they be playing sports etc.
Teachers staff room need to go also as alot of teachers would be parents and could spread the virus from there.

No it fcuking could not. You cannot have a group of uneducated first years in a science lab doing English, or 3rd year Science in the woodwork room, while 5th year chemistry is in a prefab.

All mixed, not base units, need specialised rooms.

No staff room, no photocopy machines, grand, I can email work for students to print off at home to bring in next day.

Sammy2012 · 14-06-2020 02:35PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

No it fcuking could not. You cannot have a group of uneducated first years in a science lab doing English, or 3rd year Science in the woodwork room, while 5th year chemistry is in a prefab.

All mixed, not base units, need specialised rooms.

No staff room, no photocopy machines, grand, I can email work for students to print off at home to bring in next day.

When I was in school close on 20yrs ago we used to have maths in the science lab fairly regularly!

TheValeyard · 14-06-2020 02:36PM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

When I was in school close on 20yrs ago we used to have maths in the science lab fairly regularly!

20 years ago, maths was actually maths.

A lot has changed. Conditions, rules, child safety. Course content.

Sammy2012 · 14-06-2020 02:38PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

20 years ago, maths was actually maths.

A lot has changed. Conditions, rules, child safety. Course content.

Okay point taken! I dont know what's on the Maths curriculum now.

average_runner · 14-06-2020 02:39PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

No it fcuking could not. You cannot have a group of uneducated first years in a science lab doing English, or 3rd year Science in the woodwork room, while 5th year chemistry is in a prefab.

All mixed, not base units, need specialised rooms.

No staff room, no photocopy machines, grand, I can email work for students to print off at home to bring in next day.

Jaysus we did Maths in the science lab when in school.

Maybe stagger the times classes come out, teachers Marshall the corridors when students moving along.

Isolation rooms will have to be available also and then someone will have to Marshall the toilets, ie numbers allowed.

TheValeyard · 14-06-2020 02:41PM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Okay point taken! I dont know what's on the Maths curriculum now.

It kinda looks like maths. But mention it to math enthusiasts as you will be getting an earful for an hour.

Benimar · 14-06-2020 02:51PM

average_runner wrote: »

Jaysus we did Maths in the science lab when in school.

Maybe stagger the times classes come out, teachers Marshall the corridors when students moving along.

Isolation rooms will have to be available also and then someone will have to Marshall the toilets, ie numbers allowed.

You can do maths in a Science lab, you cant to a Science experiment in a regular class.

Group A in the Science Lab will be fine because they can do experiments, Maths, English etc.

What are Group B in the regular class going to do for Science?

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 14-06-2020 03:10PM

screamer wrote: »

SARS totally different to covid19, it never got out of the traps to spread worldwide....

Those thinking normal will ever be normal again until we have either a vaccine or cure for covid19 are absolutely living in cloud cuckoo land and would be the very ones who’d scream blue murder if their little Johnny came home from school with covid. We need to be sensible about this. A second wave will come have no doubt, our approach may be different but thinking schools can just go back full steam ahead is wishful thinking

SARS spread to 29 different countries and was considered a worldwide pandemic. Same with swine flu.

While it was nowhere near the extent in sheer number of infections and deaths that we are seeing with Covid, it did make it all the way to Ireland back then too.

It's impossible to say whether a second wave is likely. Experts don't even know so it's not a certainty.

98% of cases are very mild, so much so that some people don't even know they have it, an approach based on risk with localised lockdowns for clusters will be the way forward.

I don't think we'll be having any more nationwide lockdowns regardless of second wave, we have to learn to get on with it while testing and tracing etc.

wirelessdude01 · 14-06-2020 04:11PM

average_runner wrote: »

I agree certain things will need to be in place, obviously a secondary school your in. So maybe students dont switch class rooms, hand cleaning a must, temps taken, maybe all homework should on tablets or laptops.

You do know that students in secondary aren't in the same group all day? Some do French, some Spanish, some German for instance.

Also remember all those protests against iPads in schools/education a few years back? Here that rubbish comes home to roost.

firemansam4 · 14-06-2020 04:42PM

Ger Roe wrote:

What about if you are under 50 and in good health, but living with elderly relatives or other people with increased risks?. It's not as simple as assessing the level of risk and worry by a cut-off age.

Because of a failure to deal with the long running housing crisis, there are many people who themselves are low risk, but have to consider others that they are living with.

It's all fine to be aware that catching Covid is a risk that we have to accept and manage, but a considerable amount of people can not confine that risk to just themselves and their own good health or young age.

There is always going to be a few situations like this, and again maybe special conditions need to be made under these circumstances.

This virus is going to be with us a very long time, a vaccine anytime soon is just a fantasy. Children have already missed nearly 4 months of school, and this is going to have a disastrous effect on them if they continue to miss school. This part time school idea won't be much help, kids need to get back to school full time.

Now the argument has been made that we are putting Teachers lives at risk to facilitate this, I countered this by showing evidence that for those who are under 44 and in good health there is nearly the same chance of being killed in a motor accident as from dying of covid 19.

Now by all means extra investment and as many measures as possible need to be made to try and minimise the risk of spread as much as possible.
But I just don't think we can keep sacrificing our children's education for a virus that now seems to be very low in the community.

Beasty · 14-06-2020 05:19PM

Threads merged

daheff · 14-06-2020 06:58PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Please link anywhere where this is said?

Received school weekly note last month from the principal saying they have no idea how they can possibly get back to school in September...a full 3.5 months away. No..we have some ideas..no open to your suggestions....not suggestions even offered for discussion. Simply admitting defeat even before starting to try.

Heard similar stories from family friends and work colleagues about their schools.

wirelessdude01 · 14-06-2020 07:04PM

daheff wrote: »

Received school weekly note last month from the principal saying they have no idea how they can possibly get back to school in September...a full 3.5 months away. No..we have some ideas..no open to your suggestions....not suggestions even offered for discussion. Simply admitting defeat even before starting to try.

Heard similar stories from family friends and work colleagues about their schools.

It's true though that we have no idea how school will look like when we hopefully get back in September. The dept and current minister have been found to be woefully out their depth when it comes to giving any form of guidance or guidelines to us. Leo and his 'bespoke solutions' is just new speak for let the schools try and figure it out and if and when things go tits up then schools can take the blame.

Chicoso · 14-06-2020 07:06PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

It's true though that we have no idea how school will look like when we hopefully get back in September. The dept and current minister have been found to be woefully out their depth when it comes to giving any form of guidance or guidelines to us. Leo and his 'bespoke solutions' is just new speak for let the schools try and figure it out and if and when things go tits up then schools can take the blame.

School principals just mailing the problem back

Can't blame them really

iamwhoiam · 14-06-2020 07:07PM

daheff wrote: »

Received school weekly note last month from the principal saying they have no idea how they can possibly get back to school in September...a full 3.5 months away. No..we have some ideas..no open to your suggestions....not suggestions even offered for discussion. Simply admitting defeat even before starting to try.

Heard similar stories from family friends and work colleagues about their schools.

Good job the frontline workers and health services didn’t throw in the towel and say they have no idea how they could cope

I genuinely admire all those who movd outside their comfort zones and carried on
Be it frontline or restaurants or chemists etc

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 14-06-2020 07:29PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

It's true though that we have no idea how school will look like when we hopefully get back in September. The dept and current minister have been found to be woefully out their depth when it comes to giving any form of guidance or guidelines to us. Leo and his 'bespoke solutions' is just new speak for let the schools try and figure it out and if and when things go tits up then schools can take the blame.

I'm presuming the use of the words bespoke solutions will be for measures specific to staff and pupils that have underlying conditions or may be more vulnerable.

That was my take on it anyway.

lulublue22 · 14-06-2020 07:34PM

daheff wrote: »

Received school weekly note last month from the principal saying they have no idea how they can possibly get back to school in September...a full 3.5 months away. No..we have some ideas..no open to your suggestions....not suggestions even offered for discussion. Simply admitting defeat even before starting to try.

Heard similar stories from family friends and work colleagues about their schools.

I presume this is in relation to waiting for dep guidance. There is absolutely no point in telling parents how school might look like in 3.5 months when those responsible have not to date issued any guidelines re same.

This is one of my pet peeves. Dep of Ed is responsible for how schooling will look in Sep not principals nor teachers - how schools respond will be based on guidelines from the dep. It boggles the mind how people don’t seem to grasp that basic fact. Ive no doubt the same poster would be back here in Sep bitching how the principal said x y and z and now the school wont do it. Bad school bad teachers yada yada .

ETA - as a school we have discussed how we could accommodate a return to school in Sep. We have a number of ideas / suggestions in mind that are fine tuned to our school. However we have no idea which of these ideas will be a runner or feasible as to date we have not received any guidance from the dep. There is absolutely no point in communicating same to parents as depending on the dep none of our solutions maybe feasible. I doubt we are the only school in the country to have discused a return in Sep.

iamwhoiam · 14-06-2020 07:40PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I presume this is in relation to waiting for dep guidance. There is absolutely no point in telling parents how school might look like in 3.5 months when those responsible have not to date issued any guidelines re same.

This is one of my pet peeves. Dep of Ed is responsible for how schooling will look in Sep not principals nor teachers - how schools respond will be based on guidelines from the dep. It boggles the mind how people don’t seem to grasp that basic fact. Ive no doubt the same poster would be back here in Sep bitching how the principal said x y and z and now the school wont do it. Bad school bad teachers yada yada .

It would be nice if the Principal had put it that way rather than “ we have no clue how we can do it “
A bit of positive communication for very anxious parents would go a long way

History Queen · 14-06-2020 07:43PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It would be nice if the Principal had put it that way rather than “ we have no clue how we can do it “
A bit of positive communication for very anxious parents would go a long way

I agree with you there. I have some sympathy for the principal though. We were promised specifics Friday and instead got waffle and soundbites. Very difficult and the principal is probably just exasperated and exhausted and fielding questions that they can't answer from teachers, parents and students for the last few weeks.

lulublue22 · 14-06-2020 07:48PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It would be nice if the Principal had put it that way rather than “ we have no clue how we can do it “
A bit of positive communication for very anxious parents would go a long way

Yes it would - but principals are only human too. Our principal is inundated with emails and calls from anxious parents - some who are reasonable and others who are taking the opportunity to let off steam to someone who is as much in the dark as the parents themselves.

iamwhoiam · 14-06-2020 07:49PM

History Queen wrote: »

I agree with you there. I have some sympathy for the principal though. We were promised specifics Friday and instead got waffle and soundbites. Very difficult and the principal is probably just exasperated and exhausted and fielding questions that they can't answer from teachers, parents and students for the last few weeks.

I understand that and its really not easy but then maybe say nothing at all instead of causing more anxiety
Parents are also stressed and anxious about September . Its hard on everyone

History Queen · 14-06-2020 07:54PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I understand that and its really not easy but then maybe say nothing at all instead of causing more anxiety
Parents are also stressed and snxious

Agreed. If we could get all parents and teachers demanding that the Dept cop on to themselves maybe something positive could come from this. I could stand to be corrected on this but there's no clear guidance on the running of July provision either, this scheme deals with some of our most vulnerable students, they cannot be left fend for themselves or worse, have schools unable to run the scheme becauseguidance wasn't provided.

iamwhoiam · 14-06-2020 07:55PM

History Queen wrote: »

Agreed. If we could get all parents and teachers demanding that the Dept cop on to themselves maybe something positive could come from this. I could stand to be corrected on this but there's no clear guidance on the running of July provision either, this scheme deals with some of our most vulnerable students, they cannot be left fend for themselves or worse, have schools unable to run the scheme becauseguidance wasn't provided.

Absolutely and these kids must take priority now . They need help so badly as do their carers .

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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