Zwift spins

lukegjpotter · 25-05-2020 12:28PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Is it possible to suck at these tests ?,... I know I'll push much harder trying to chase someone's wheel that's 4 seconds up the road.

This was covered on the TrainerRoad Podcast a few months ago.
They answered a question about if they should take their FTP from a max 20min power from a race or from a ramp test.

IIRC, they more or less said "take it from the ramp test".
They cited that in a race, you're more motivated, probably caffeinated up and sugared up. This may not be the case for your workouts. They also factored in the expected power drop from riding on the trainer.

If you're racing with the same Caffeine and Sugar intake as you are for training workouts, then you can take the FTP from a Race.

Also for an actual 20 minute FTP test, there are intervals before the test to wear you out a bit. With a Zwift Race, you're starting fresh, so you'll get a higher number.

Where, in reality, your real number, not your ego number, is lower.

An overreaching FTP can lead to over training and stressing the incorrect systems.
An underestimated FTP might lead you to get a lesser quality training, but it's the consistency that brings improvement.
So maybe slightly lower is better than slightly higher in the long run.

joey100 · 25-05-2020 12:34PM

@Yop, Your food idea is good, I had dark chocolate with chilli and then some clove rock just for something that wasn't sweet. Once you stay on top of it from the start you will be ok, little and often. I started with bottles of water+ electrolyte tabs and then had some with dilutant in it too. By about half way tho all I wanted was plain water, everything was just getting too sweet. Have a few pairs of shorts, jerseys and socks, comfort is a huge thing over that sort of time on the bike so make sure your comfortable. Edited to add, wear gloves, my hands suffered more than anything else and wasn't expecting it at all.

Coke was good towards the end alright, even for just getting the focus back a bit! I went solo but if your doing it with others just watch your own pacing, I found that I needed to keep the first few very easy, rather than starting too hard an slipping off and suffering as it went on.

lukegjpotter · 25-05-2020 12:36PM

yop wrote: »

We've done a few recons of it, did the base camp yesterday but I suffered badly so I have ordered a 34 cassette for the back.

Any advice there besides?

Best of luck with it.

Have you watched the Francis Cade videos from his Double vEverest?
He ate mostly sugar and smoothies.

With the 34t cassette, ensure that you don't cross chain the 50-34t as without a slightly longer chain you may strip your mech hanger.

Riding it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV17fgB-bkQ

Reviewing the ride: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47WAvGfvO4

nilhg · 25-05-2020 02:20PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Is it possible to suck at these tests ?,I found the motivation hard doing a ramp test , I know I'll push much harder trying to chase someone's wheel that's 4 seconds up the road. I got ftp of 220w on last ramp test about 2 months ago , then started doing races of 1 hour and just used my average power as my new ftp.
Was holding 235w average for an hour a few weeks ago now last 4 efforts have all averaged 242-244w for an hour so zwifts guess of 243w is probably my ftp. Although my last race wasnt all out as definitely didn't pedal down hill and took a psychological rest in middle when ended up isolated. 243 for an hour seems doable if I was to hop on a trainer now so my guess is that's low aswell . Noticed normalised power was 252w and that feels more accurate.

Try syncing a couple of weeks data into https://intervals.icu/ and see what estimation it comes up with, it'll use maximal efforts of over 3 minutes to estimate your FTP

yop · 25-05-2020 02:25PM

joey100 wrote: »

@Yop, Your food idea is good, I had dark chocolate with chilli and then some clove rock just for something that wasn't sweet. Once you stay on top of it from the start you will be ok, little and often. I started with bottles of water+ electrolyte tabs and then had some with dilutant in it too. By about half way tho all I wanted was plain water, everything was just getting too sweet. Have a few pairs of shorts, jerseys and socks, comfort is a huge thing over that sort of time on the bike so make sure your comfortable. Edited to add, wear gloves, my hands suffered more than anything else and wasn't expecting it at all.

Coke was good towards the end alright, even for just getting the focus back a bit! I went solo but if your doing it with others just watch your own pacing, I found that I needed to keep the first few very easy, rather than starting too hard an slipping off and suffering as it went on.

Thanks thats great pointers. The hands have sufffered from rubbing against the bars and the sweat.
I'm solo on this, the lads will be "there" but most are 10-20kg lighter than me so I just plough on on my own.

I am hoping that it will go a bit as I go from dark to sun.

lukegjpotter wrote: »

Best of luck with it.

Have you watched the Francis Cade videos from his Double vEverest?
He ate mostly sugar and smoothies.

With the 34t cassette, ensure that you don't cross chain the 50-34t as without a slightly longer chain you may strip your mech hanger.

Riding it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV17fgB-bkQ

Reviewing the ride: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47WAvGfvO4

I haven't watched that but definitely will.
Umm, thats something I haven't taken into consideration. I much check it.

new2tri19 · 25-05-2020 02:56PM

nilhg wrote: »

Try syncing a couple of weeks data into https://intervals.icu/ and see what estimation it comes up with, it'll use maximal efforts of over 3 minutes to estimate your FTP

Never seen that site before very good , I linked to Strava and it seemed to sync every activity for this calendar year , says 249watts so must be around that . It gives data on running and swimming too very impressive thanks for link.

lennymc · 25-05-2020 03:02PM

intervals.icu is class. i use the fitness graphs quite a bit for monitoring load, and building in restdays.

dahat · 25-05-2020 03:04PM

I've been using this for a while now and its impressive, ideal for those who don't want to sub to TP.

Bambaata · 25-05-2020 05:07PM

Do you need to allow it get all permissions? I see it asking for a max HR, i havent a notion! How has anyone ever entered this figure?

new2tri19 · 26-05-2020 08:50AM

Some interesting data just need to know how to interpret it , my training is consistent every week seems to be treshold that doesn't sound great but in percentage terms looks like z1+2 53% , z3+4 41% and z5+ 5% . That looks fairly balanced it's nearly exact same every week this year which would make sense as I replaced my hard runs with bike races and rest of week is always each aerobic running.

I used my max heart rate achieved during a 5km run race as a close estimate. It's hard to know without lab tests .

CramCycle · 26-05-2020 10:43AM

Bambaata wrote: »

Do you need to allow it get all permissions? I see it asking for a max HR, i havent a notion! How has anyone ever entered this figure?

I just went with the highest recorded HR from Strava over the last while, currently 197bpm, it was north of 200 last year.

Macy0161 · 26-05-2020 10:50AM

I though your max heart rate was your max heart rate, and it doesn't change? Unlike resting heart rate?

CramCycle · 26-05-2020 10:55AM

Macy0161 wrote: »

I though your max heart rate was your max heart rate, and it doesn't change? Unlike resting heart rate?

Everything changes over time, max HR will typically decline with age regardless although if you get fitter it should increase for awhile. When i started using a HR monitor, I could easily get over 200bpm on the way home, I would sprint up one small climb. Last year I think I hit it twice, maybe only once, this year I haven't hit at all.

I wouldn't worry about it to much though, whatever is the highest you can recall in the last year or two should be a grand starting point

new2tri19 · 26-05-2020 11:35AM

It seems to be different for sports aswell , max heart rate running about 190 on the bike all out heart rate never seems to go above 160 .

CramCycle · 26-05-2020 12:00PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

It seems to be different for sports aswell , max heart rate running about 190 on the bike all out heart rate never seems to go above 160 .

Yep, running always seems to be higher, Swimming I think is lower in general as well, I could be wrong.

Macy0161 · 26-05-2020 12:04PM

CramCycle wrote: »

Yep, running always seems to be higher, Swimming I think is lower in general as well, I could be wrong.

Yes, iirc it's to do with the load/ muscles engaged or something. I try to block all that triathlon stuff out of my head.

My max running is about 10bpm more than I've managed on the bike.

I must have a look at some of the zwift stuff I've done recently, as probably as near to all out I've done in a while to be honest!

iwillhtfu · 26-05-2020 02:07PM

CramCycle wrote: »

Yep, running always seems to be higher, Swimming I think is lower in general as well, I could be wrong.

Swimming is probably something to do with the horizontal plain. I know when you get out of a swim in a triathlon your heads a bit all over the place for a few secs due to the change in blood pressure or something along those lines.

I think in cycling you would hit your max more often as you tend to work in waves of effort, running is more of a constant effort although I'd say it differs with each running category sprint,xc,long,mountain etc.

new2tri19 · 27-05-2020 08:33AM

new2tri19 wrote: »

I did a race on Zwift it was Bologna circuit , 2 times up a hill . Anyway I didn't go flat out because ended up on my own and didn't pedal down the hills.
When I finished Zwift told me I had a new ftp 235-243w when I check zwift power I see I averaged 243watts for the race which was 57 mins or so and normalised power says 252watts.
Does normalised power mean the power you could hold for an hour riding steady ? Should I assume that is my FTP? Or is it a little more complicated than that ?thanks

As an update on this I got on bike last night and tried to hold 265watts for last 20 mins of a bike ride , my legs where tired but it started to hurt last 5 mins seems to drag. Zwift told me new Ftp of 253watts so im guessing NP for an hour was fairly accurate. Happy to break into 4w/kg for 20 mins now need to get that to an hour , I'll try an hour at 265w after a day or 2 rest .

dahat · 27-05-2020 10:34AM

Will the Cycle Ireland sprint race be a sub 20 effort this week? Laps changed from 3 to 2 laps.

JimmiesRustled · 27-05-2020 11:24AM

dahat wrote: »

Will the Cycle Ireland sprint race be a sub 20 effort this week? Laps changed from 3 to 2 laps.

Reckon it'll be close to the last one in New York on the 14/05/20. That was 20km and just under 25 minutes. More elevation this time around. Last race in New York was 62m elevation gain per lap, tomorrow is 120m per lap.

dahat · 27-05-2020 12:18PM

JimmiesRustled wrote: »

Reckon it'll be close to the last one in New York on the 14/05/20. That was 20km and just under 25 minutes. More elevation this time around. Last race in New York was 62m elevation gain per lap, tomorrow is 120m per lap.

Yeah, after having a look it looks like a 20 plus effort alright, might gamble all the same.

CramCycle · 27-05-2020 03:43PM

Have to say I am preferring the sprint races. Shorter and more intense, which is odd as in real life, it would the opposite of what would suit me. Certainly placing far higher in them than any other races.

I am slowly coming around to the realisation in the longer races that I am not being found on the wrong side of splits, it might be that I am more naturally suited to the 2nd group, which is disheartening. Being caught on the wrong side a few times is one thing, but every time indicates that it is not just luck

dahat · 27-05-2020 04:28PM

In terms of the Cycle Ireland races the front group for the last 2/3 are flirting with A grade so not making the selection there isn't something to be downbeat over.

dahat · 28-05-2020 11:22AM

dahat wrote: »

Yeah, after having a look it looks like a 20 plus effort alright, might gamble all the same.

No race tonight, body is in tatters so easy road spin & rest day tomorrow.

Flat out Zwift racing does catch up with you even more so than road racing i'd say.

daragh_ · 28-05-2020 11:54AM

dahat wrote: »

No race tonight, body is in tatters so easy road spin & rest day tomorrow.

Flat out Zwift racing does catch up with you even more so than road racing i'd say.

110%. I'm in a cycle of a week long recovery from our Club League on Tuesday nights. Had to skip a planned TT this day last week because of fatigue.

new2tri19 · 28-05-2020 12:09PM

Is it frowned upon to enter a race below your grade , I would like to ride C grade cycling Ireland race just for the training effort. I've a run to do first so won't be able to hold with B group . Is it ok once you don't win , my plan is just to stick with top group in C (if I can) if by some miracle I was ahead I would drop back and let others take the podium.

dahat · 28-05-2020 12:41PM

daragh_ wrote: »

110%. I'm in a cycle of a week long recovery from out Club League on Tuesday nights. Had to skip a planned TT this day last week because of fatigue.

Amazing platform to wipe you out in fairness. Hopefully the suffering pays off at some point.

It's definitely something to be aware of heading into the winter when the temptation is there to hammer more than needed.

dahat · 28-05-2020 12:42PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Is it frowned upon to enter a race below your grade , I would like to ride C grade cycling Ireland race just for the training effort. I've a run to do first so won't be able to hold with B group . Is it ok once you don't win , my plan is just to stick with top group in C (if I can) if by some miracle I was ahead I would drop back and let others take the podium.

Yes, you will be dq'd & not fair on the genuine C lads.
Race the B with us, it will be fun....

new2tri19 · 28-05-2020 12:51PM

dahat wrote: »

Yes, you will be dq'd & not fair on the genuine C lads.
Race the B with us, it will be fun....

Fun you say! I'm certainly not a sprinter no power I'll be last hanging on with tired legs from running , sure I'll give it a go , hopefully find a small group at back to hang with .

JimmiesRustled · 28-05-2020 01:05PM

dahat wrote: »

Yes, you will be dq'd & not fair on the genuine C lads.
Race the B with us, it will be fun....

Could say the exact same for a lot of the guys racing in B.... :rolleyes:

Zwift spins

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