Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The Soulsborne combat debate

Options
12357…14

Comments

  • Options
    #122
    Rob2D
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 2,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rob2D


    nix wrote: »
    Take that back! :mad:

    But it is. You just parry along to the music of battle. I make little tunes/beats in my head of the pings and clangs so I can remember the flow.

    The only thing I had trouble with was shura at the end. But that's because he was a souls boss which I wasn't ready for. That fight was quite awkward.


  • Options
    #123
    nix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭nix


    heh, im jk.. But ive never found myself deflecting to the beat of the music, I'll probably find myself trying to though when i get around to a replay :D:mad::P


  • Options
    #124
    Mr Crispy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭Mr Crispy


    And after that, play through with music turned off. :pac:


  • Options
    #125
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users Posts: 27,919 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Brozy wrote: »
    I'm always intrigued by these threads related to the from software games. Bought Demon Souls back in 2012 and played it for maybe 5 hours (guessing) and I gave up as I hadn't a clue what I was at.

    After following all the discussion here I believe I'm really missing out by not giving these games a good go. So I made the decision that the next time Dark Souls remastered goes on sale, I'm going to take the plunge and get stuck into it.

    I think someone on here said that AAA games leave a lot to be desired and I have to agree. I picked up God of War in the sales before Christmas and was expecting to be blown away but wasn't all that impressed. The Norse mythology never struck a chord with me but still don't think there was anything groundbreaking in GOW.

    https://www.humblebundle.com/store/agecheck/dark-souls-remastered?hmb_source=humble_home&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_2_layout_index_6_layout_type_twos_tile_index_1_c_darksouls_remastered_storefront

    Probably won't get it cheaper than that for a while.


  • Options
    #126
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,866 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Brozy wrote: »
    I think someone on here said that AAA games leave a lot to be desired and I have to agree. I picked up God of War in the sales before Christmas and was expecting to be blown away but wasn't all that impressed. The Norse mythology never struck a chord with me but still don't think there was anything groundbreaking in GOW.

    Wouldn't say many games are groundbreaking these days, but for me, God of War was the perfection they have been working towards since the first game. I was invested in the original trilogy and some of the spin offs, so I was always going to enjoy a new entry.

    It's what they did, new combat style which felt meaty, heavy, strong, like Kratos' own evolution into what he is in the 2018 game. The story and lore for me were perfect (I like Norse mythology anyway) and how they brought in the well known Norse characters and how they interact with Kratos, the history it is building, it was perfection to me.

    Not to mention the gameplay was on point. As mentioned above, I have already killed Zeus, nobody but the head Gods in Norse should pose a proper challege, so the combat from DS games wouldn't suit here. Then the lighting, camera angle, score, sound effects, voice acting, mocap, it was all perfect for me. It even had a child in the game and they didn't ruin it, and made me realise that maybe kids can be playable in games without being annoying (Boy had his moments, but overall was a good addition).

    Each to their own and all that, more proof of it here, but many others agree that God of War was a masterpiece, metacritic agrees is was really good (if that's worth anything to you), 94 Critic/9.1 User. It was my GOTY.

    If we even filter metacritic (I don't use it personally, but some people do), God of War 5th is highest critic rated games on the PS4, and second in user ratings. So while opinions can differ, most seem to agree that God of War, and other AAA games are getting higher critic and user scores.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #127
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,983 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Ah but it plays like a poor man's platinum game.
    Untitled Image




  • Options
    #128
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,866 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Ah but it plays like a poor man's platinum game.

    In your opinion. More people agree it's better than any Soulsborne game, again if going by user and critic reviews.

    Why is that actually? Why do ye insist that they're the best series if the mass population doesn't think so? Lots or people say Donnie Darko is a great film, whereas i'd rather grate my own balls than watch it again. And back to an earlier comment, some people thoroughly enjoy getting kicked in the bollix, and will swear blind it's the best thing ever. Reminds me of Soulsborne fans tbh. :pac:


  • Options
    #129
    Doctor Nick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭Doctor Nick


    The Souls games all score very highly on Metacritic also. The combat in the last God of War game was Souls style combat I thought. I really enjoyed God of War 2018. Didn't like the earlier ones.


  • Options
    #130
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,866 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Aye, but God of War scores higher, ergo it's better! :D

    Any maybe the combat was Souls like, it was definitely no longer a button masher but also not too difficult/unforgivng, like the feeling I get from the Souls games (imo). Also, a big difference between GoW and the Souls games is not having to kill every single enemy again if you died. Or at the very least, it was only a small portion of them between checkpoints, so didn't overstay it's welcome in getting back to where you were. That really is my biggest complaint, rather than the combat itself.

    Case in point, think it was Bloodborne. You start off, kill a few people to get used to the sluggish controls (in comparison to other games, imo, and which I'm sure would have improved with time). Grand, I could like this. Spent a good 2 hours just moving slowly, getting used to the mechanics as best I could. I'm also a bit of a ransacker in these games, I nearly have to ensure I've done all I can in an area before I'll move on. Anyway, I got to some dude in a graveyard, and he basically one shotted me. Grand I says, probably not high enough level. When I respawned, I was all the way back and had to fight through all the same enemies again, in the same places, doing the same things. Granted, I knew the straight route to graveyard dude, but still loads of enemies in between. I heard you can run past, but if he one shotted me, running past would not help.

    Eventually, by the 4th time he killed me, I just couldn't bring myself to repeat the same section again, because of how long it takes each time. If there was a checkpoint or save point just outside of where he is, or at least nearby, I might have kept going. I did want to try him again, as I was getting the health down bit by bit (with the last time he killed me, something must have happened because he just got vicious out of nowhere and murdered me). But the thoughts of the same leadup to it put me off. Same with one of the Souls games I played, the respawning enemies put me off.

    I'm sure someone will come along to explain how I should have done it, but that's most likely because you have played it to death, or have read about it, or you're a fan of the series so you can't see any wrong in it. Simply put, I don't feel the game respected my time so it's not for me. I know not everyone will share that sentiment, and may even say it's more rewarding of your time when you stick with it and 'git gud', but that's not how I like my entertainment.


  • Options
    #131
    gimli2112
    Registered Users Posts: 13,407 ✭✭✭✭gimli2112


    Souls games are weird for me. Tried the first one and had several aborted attempts at the third and just couldn't get into them. Bloodbourne on the other hand consumed me from the outset.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #132
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users Posts: 27,919 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Aye, but God of War scores higher, ergo it's better! :D

    Any maybe the combat was Souls like, it was definitely no longer a button masher but also not too difficult/unforgivng, like the feeling I get from the Souls games (imo). Also, a big difference between GoW and the Souls games is not having to kill every single enemy again if you died. Or at the very least, it was only a small portion of them between checkpoints, so didn't overstay it's welcome in getting back to where you were. That really is my biggest complaint, rather than the combat itself.

    Case in point, think it was Bloodborne. You start off, kill a few people to get used to the sluggish controls (in comparison to other games, imo, and which I'm sure would have improved with time). Grand, I could like this. Spent a good 2 hours just moving slowly, getting used to the mechanics as best I could. I'm also a bit of a ransacker in these games, I nearly have to ensure I've done all I can in an area before I'll move on. Anyway, I got to some dude in a graveyard, and he basically one shotted me. Grand I says, probably not high enough level. When I respawned, I was all the way back and had to fight through all the same enemies again, in the same places, doing the same things. Granted, I knew the straight route to graveyard dude, but still loads of enemies in between. I heard you can run past, but if he one shotted me, running past would not help.

    Eventually, by the 4th time he killed me, I just couldn't bring myself to repeat the same section again, because of how long it takes each time. If there was a checkpoint or save point just outside of where he is, or at least nearby, I might have kept going. I did want to try him again, as I was getting the health down bit by bit (with the last time he killed me, something must have happened because he just got vicious out of nowhere and murdered me). But the thoughts of the same leadup to it put me off. Same with one of the Souls games I played, the respawning enemies put me off.

    I'm sure someone will come along to explain how I should have done it, but that's most likely because you have played it to death, or have read about it, or you're a fan of the series so you can't see any wrong in it. Simply put, I don't feel the game respected my time so it's not for me. I know not everyone will share that sentiment, and may even say it's more rewarding of your time when you stick with it and 'git gud', but that's not how I like my entertainment.

    You didn't open the short cut to that boss. If you did you'd only gave to kill one small guy then run past two ogres, go up a lift trigger the bridge so the enemies are killed, kill the Ogre and shied guy and then go up to the boss. Takes about 3 minutes to do the run at the very most.

    You we're probably very under leveled because you probably hadn't explored enough before tackling him. There's one other boss you can fight before him, a giant pig that you can kill in two hits that gives loads of souls and a church area and sewer area to explore that have better armor and another weapon.

    Also I never found the combat clunky. If you transformed your weapon during attack combos you could extend your combos and do much more damage.


  • Options
    #133
    gimli2112
    Registered Users Posts: 13,407 ✭✭✭✭gimli2112


    Father Gascoigne is a pretty tough boss but only because he comes so early. He can be cheesed on the stair railings to the right but once you are levelled up he becomes a walk in the park.

    That giant pig is my most hated creature in the game because he ate the little girl, Gascoigne's kid. Not sure where I saw that but I definitely did.


  • Options
    #134
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,983 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    In your opinion. More people agree it's better than any Soulsborne game, again if going by user and critic reviews.

    Why is that actually? Why do ye insist that they're the best series if the mass population doesn't think so? Lots or people say Donnie Darko is a great film, whereas i'd rather grate my own balls than watch it again. And back to an earlier comment, some people thoroughly enjoy getting kicked in the bollix, and will swear blind it's the best thing ever. Reminds me of Soulsborne fans tbh. :pac:

    Well I was being hyperbolic and while the combat in God of war is great it's short of platinum and souls games. Not by much though.

    As for most people and reviews agreeing it's better than souls? It was highly rated but doubt many of the reviews said that. Because that's comparing apples with oranges.

    Also reviews are both subjective and can be heavily influenced by hype, especially in videogame where there is a severe lack of quality reviewers. For instance look at the crazy high reviews for Bioshock infinite or gta 4. Most places have done retrospectives on those games and they are actually pretty bad. Ni no kuni as well.

    Then there's user reviews as well. Legend of dragoon got awful reviews because it's an awful game yet some people love that game.

    Basically metacritic scores and reviews aren't a metric to judge games by.

    Also it's not right to judge a game like dark souls against god of war. Both are very different and not comparable. One is quite a simple game which relies more on action movie spectacle while dark souls is a game that focuses more on it's gameplay and combat mechanics and has way more depth. I happen to prefer games with the later but I'm also not going to say god of war is a bad game because I don't get it. The problem there would be with me and not the game. (And that's hypothetical because I really like god of war).

    Sounds like you barely played any bloodbourne as well.
    Untitled Image




  • Options
    #135
    Doctor Nick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭Doctor Nick


    gimli2112 wrote: »
    Father Gascoigne is a pretty tough boss but only because he comes so early. He can be cheesed on the stair railings to the right but once you are levelled up he becomes a walk in the park.

    That giant pig is my most hated creature in the game because he ate the little girl, Gascoigne's kid. Not sure where I saw that but I definitely did.

    Yep. You get her ribbon from him if you kill him after she disappears.


  • Options
    #136
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,983 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    the most frustrating thing about this conversation is that I think Potential-Monke would actually like the soulsbourne games if you put a bit more time into them :)
    Untitled Image




  • Options
    #137
    nix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭nix


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    the most frustrating thing about this conversation is that I think Potential-Monke would actually like the soulsbourne games if you put a bit more time into them :)


    Yup, he experienced the ball ache everybody goes through at the start of these games and thinks thats all it is the whole way through the game..

    Gascoigne is like the games tutorial, once you get passed him, you are ready to take on anything as you now likely have the moves required in the game down to feel confident and progress.

    Plus I'm pretty sure he missed the first optional boss which is a much shorter corpse run and good practice. Didn't explore as much as he claims he likes to do :P


  • Options
    #138
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,983 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I actually found bloodborne to be the easiest of the souls games. Gascoigne was tough but basically a tutorial, once you beat him you had learned to tools you need for the rest of the game. After that is Vicar Amelia who is tough and after that.... well kind of found the game a cake walk. The DLC was tough, Orphan of Kos gave me all kinds of trouble, more so than Laurence but by that point you are fully invested in the game.
    Untitled Image




  • Options
    #139
    gimli2112
    Registered Users Posts: 13,407 ✭✭✭✭gimli2112


    I hit a roadblock 1/2 way through while doing the dungeons. Some Ogre with chains on his back, fup me it destroyed my new found confidence.
    The cursed dungeon fire dog and Amygedela were tough, struggled with the boss in Cairnhurst too. I got over everything eventually although never beat Kos.


  • Options
    #140
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,983 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I never really bothered with the dungeons. Got to one dungeon that was straight up dick move level design and just played the main game.
    Untitled Image




  • Options
    #141
    gimli2112
    Registered Users Posts: 13,407 ✭✭✭✭gimli2112


    Yeah a lot of people didn't like them but you could get some great stuff out of them plus I had to do the cursed one for the platinum. I probably spent as much time in them as the main game.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #142
    Doctor Nick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭Doctor Nick


    gimli2112 wrote: »
    Yeah a lot of people didn't like them but you could get some great stuff out of them plus I had to do the cursed one for the platinum. I probably spent as much time in them as the main game.

    I've tried them but never got beyond Depth 4. Never done the cursed or defiled ones (half health).


  • Options
    #143
    Arcadeheroes
    Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭Arcadeheroes


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Wouldn't say many games are groundbreaking these days, but for me, God of War was the perfection they have been working towards since the first game. I was invested in the original trilogy and some of the spin offs, so I was always going to enjoy a new entry.

    It's what they did, new combat style which felt meaty, heavy, strong, like Kratos' own evolution into what he is in the 2018 game. The story and lore for me were perfect (I like Norse mythology anyway) and how they brought in the well known Norse characters and how they interact with Kratos, the history it is building, it was perfection to me.

    Not to mention the gameplay was on point. As mentioned above, I have already killed Zeus, nobody but the head Gods in Norse should pose a proper challege, so the combat from DS games wouldn't suit here. Then the lighting, camera angle, score, sound effects, voice acting, mocap, it was all perfect for me. It even had a child in the game and they didn't ruin it, and made me realise that maybe kids can be playable in games without being annoying (Boy had his moments, but overall was a good addition).

    Each to their own and all that, more proof of it here, but many others agree that God of War was a masterpiece, metacritic agrees is was really good (if that's worth anything to you), 94 Critic/9.1 User. It was my GOTY.

    If we even filter metacritic (I don't use it personally, but some people do), God of War 5th is highest critic rated games on the PS4, and second in user ratings. So while opinions can differ, most seem to agree that God of War, and other AAA games are getting higher critic and user scores.

    You didnt play any of the souls games long enough , so you will never understand why FromSoftware games are considered some of the greatest games ever made . Using Metacritic as an indicator for your arguement isnt valid either since videogame journalist often hype up the latest Blockbuster releases ie. (GTA 4 , Read dead redemption 2 , Bioshock Infinite , L.A Noire,Metal Gear Solid 4) which all scored high at their release but not long after, were not well recieved by gamers. While you had the likes of Godhand which was hated by the likes of IGN and is considered a cult classic now.

    Of course how people view a game is subjective , but there are certain art forms that are just the pinnacle of said art form without argument

    I could show someone Akira Kurosawa Seven Samurai today and tell them its the pinnacle of cinema. But someone who cant get the passed the fact its over 3hrs long , black white or the fact its subtitled only would probably hate it and think the marvel movies are better.

    GOW isnt better than the souls games they are just more popular . As I stated in a previous comment The souls games had inspired Mark Cerny to creating the ps4 , ubisoft with the watchdog games and a genre (SoulsLike).

    GOW is a great game but it will not have the lasting factor or legacy Souls had on the industry. Frustrated Players have mistaken death in souls games as unfair punishment , but death is the theme of the series , you learn from your mistakes and the game never cheats you out of anything .

    in the end enjoy the games you want to play =)


  • Options
    #144
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,361 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Just got killed a few more times by Seven Spears, and I'll say it again, the issue of enemy attacks tracking you is bullsh*t. It's just bullsh*t, and it's just bad design. There's no excusing it imo.


  • Options
    #145
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users Posts: 27,919 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Penn wrote: »
    Just got killed a few more times by Seven Spears, and I'll say it again, the issue of enemy attacks tracking you is bullsh*t. It's just bullsh*t, and it's just bad design. There's no excusing it imo.

    If you have to dodge him just dodge backwards not to the side but you should be deflecting his attacks.


  • Options
    #146
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,361 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    TitianGerm wrote: »
    If you have to dodge him just dodge backwards not to the side but you should be deflecting his attacks.

    One of them was more than dodging, I jumped completely over him (I was on the steps behind so had decent height over him) when he was about to do an attack, and he completely spun around and still hit me as I was landing.

    Regardless though, I do think it's a serious issue in the game design as a whole. Enemies simply shouldn't be able to do it. It's bad design.

    I mean look at the video I posted over the weekend of the Drunkard. When you look at the rock on the ground beside him, you can see he rotates about 270degrees on one foot tracking you. It's ridiculous.


  • Options
    #147
    nix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭nix


    I thought the same also, until i just started trying to deflect everything instead and that worked ALOT better..

    A way to approach it is, dont dodge at all if the enemy has a weapon unless the Mikiri shows, then dodge/counter accordingly. Otherwise be constantly trying to deflect, its the way of killing them faster also by breaking their stance, as trying to just chip away at HP is much much slower..

    Its not bad game design, its intended.


  • Options
    #148
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,361 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I get what ye're saying, but sometimes with posture too high or health too low, you have to try get out. Either way, it's cheap. If you dodge out of the way of an attack, you shouldn't still be hit by the attack because the game decides you should be deflecting the attack instead.


  • Options
    #149
    nix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭nix


    Penn wrote: »
    I get what ye're saying, but sometimes with posture too high or health too low, you have to try get out. Either way, it's cheap. If you dodge out of the way of an attack, you shouldn't still be hit by the attack because the game decides you should be deflecting the attack instead.

    Most of the time the enemy will hit you away with a deflect (especially seven spears), make sure you're letting go of deflect when hes not in your grill as your stance bar will recover much faster. Other than that, dodge backwards to recover your stance, or use a firecracker to give yourself a break/heal.


  • Options
    #150
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,361 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    nix wrote: »
    Most of the time the enemy will hit you away with a deflect (especially seven spears), make sure you're letting go of deflect when hes not in your grill as your stance bar will recover much faster. Other than that, dodge backwards to recover your stance, or use a firecracker to give yourself a break/heal.

    I get it, and I appreciate the advice, but to me that element of enemy attack is still just bad design, and I doubt I'll feel differently.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #151
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users Posts: 27,919 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    nix wrote: »
    Most of the time the enemy will hit you away with a deflect (especially seven spears), make sure you're letting go of deflect when hes not in your grill as your stance bar will recover much faster. Other than that, dodge backwards to recover your stance, or use a firecracker to give yourself a break/heal.

    Your posture recovers faster if you're holding block and don't get hit.


Advertisement