Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Blaze420 · 18-05-2020 04:54PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I ll definitely be there 29th of June, getting a "sandwich"

"Charlie Chawke fears for pubs as people get used to drinking at home
Well-known publican says this year will be ‘a disaster’ for the trade"

We need to support the man and support local businesses (although its like 50 mins walk from where I live)

You know oddly enough I couldn’t care less if the pubs stay closed, I can replicate the same atmosphere at home with much cheaper booze and having friends around once the lockdown is over. The pubs are ****ed because most people will hopefully realise that a 4 pack of beer is the same price as a pint in most places, and there’s no risk of catching corona in your own house. They should adjust to the new reality because the world they operated in before is gone now and won’t be back for a very long time.

Goldengirl · 18-05-2020 04:55PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I ll definitely be there 29th of June, getting a "sandwich"

"Charlie Chawke fears for pubs as people get used to drinking at home
Well-known publican says this year will be ‘a disaster’ for the trade"

We need to support the man and support local businesses (although its like 50 mins walk from where I live)

Is the restriction up to 20 km by then ? Just asking as...
Think restaurant pubs will fare better

18-05-2020 04:56PM

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Here's the thing.

I'd love to believe this. I really, really would. I want nothing more than to be sitting in a sunny beer garden having pints, or planning a little city break in Seville.

But I live in London, one of the worst hit cities in Europe. I personally know 7 different people who had very serious complications from Covid, and not one of them is elderly, or in particularly bad health. They're all under 40 (one if them is just 26), and three of them have been in hospital at least once with it, one of them in intensive care. They've been sick for over 6 weeks now. Every time they think they're getting better, it hits them again. All have reported very, very bad breathing difficulties and lung pains.

So I find it hard to believe that Covid is just like a bit of a cold for most people. I think even 'mild' cases can often include symptoms like these people have had, for weeks or even months on end. Who wants to risk getting that?!

I equally find it hard to believe anecdotal evidence like this. Your experience is so disproportionate to the empirical data as to be almost unbelievable. I know no-one who has been sick with anything more serious than fatigue or a slight cough that soon passed (and might have been nothing), and neither does anyone in my London based family. And I have not heard of any friends of friends being ill (BTW, I lived in London most of my life and know a lot of people there)

So our divergent experiences are influencing a completely different behaviour. Not only will I be getting back to work asap, I plan to travel in July and swallow whatever quarantine I have on the way back

Ginger n Lemon · 18-05-2020 04:57PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Is the restriction up to 20 km by then ? Just asking as...

I am a slow walker :pac:

i think they go 20km on 29th of June co incidentally. Stars are aligning, Charlie Chawke watch out

Birdie Num Num · 18-05-2020 04:59PM

is_that_so wrote: »

We're not Iran and they seem to have been bouncing around a load of very changeable exit plans for quite a while. But why Iran anyway? Why not Denmark, NZ, Oz or Germany?

Why not any country? Every country is going to be different and adopt different strategies. Countries will differentiate greatly with resources, culturally, politically, seasonally and geographically. Best we can compare ourselves to on a like for like situation on some aspects is Britain. We just happened to act a bit more timely than they did and took it a bit more seriously to begin with.

A virus doesn't care about dictatorships or democracies. Brazil might be interesting to watch however as they are just coming into their winter season from the beginning of June or at least what could be called a winter for a mostly tropical country.

Late October could be telling when we start back into a cold and flu season particularly if we are back into full swing with pubs, educational institutions etc. back open.

Hurrache · 18-05-2020 05:01PM

Hurrache wrote: »

A perfect example of the sure why did we bother with all these restrictions when we're not that badly affected by it argument, an argument which always puts on display the person's making it abject failure of logic and cause and affect.

Followed a few hours later by another example, similar but slightly different.

Deleted User wrote: »

The reality is that less than 100 of the deaths are under 65. Only around 200 had no underlying condition. And those may well be elderly people above the life expectancy age.

We've completely overreacted to Covid and the 3 month plan is 2 months too long. We should be reopening end of June.
We never even had a first wave in Ireland.

I don't consider myself to be a cold, heartless ba**ard but there is only so much you can do to prevent over 80's from dying. If its not covid, it will be flu/pneumonia or something else.

We cannot sustain remaining in lockdown and having so many extremely low risk people out of work and out of school.
We must find a way to live with the virus and do what we can reasonably can to shield the most at risk without tanking the economy for generations.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Newstalk now with Ivan Yates

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRTSl6vxlYA

Primary school teachers member also called in

talking with Danish school union representative, they opened their schools 14 April.

Makes for a great listen.

This was posted in another thread
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/europe/2020/05/18/70-cases-of-covid-19-at-french-schools-days-after-re-opening.html

PARIS - Just one week after a third of French schoolchildren went back to school in an easing ofthe coronavirus lockdown, there’s been a worrying flareup of about 70 COVID-19 cases linked to schools.

Some schools were opened last week and a further 150,000 junior high students went back to the classroom Monday as further restrictions were loosened by the government. The move initially spelled relief: the end of homeschooling for many hundreds of thousands of exhausted French parents, many whom were also working from home.

But French Education minister Jean-Michel Blanquer sounded the alarm Monday, telling French radio RTL that the return has put some children in new danger of contamination. He said the affected schools are being closed immediately. French media reported that seven schools in northern France were closed

growleaves · 18-05-2020 05:03PM

I tried to go to Argos today but the maitre'd said I needed a reservation.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-05-2020 05:04PM

Blaze420 wrote: »

You know oddly enough I couldn’t care less if the pubs stay closed, I can replicate the same atmosphere at home with much cheaper booze and having friends around once the lockdown is over. The pubs are ****ed because most people will hopefully realise that a 4 pack of beer is the same price as a pint in most places, and there’s no risk of catching corona in your own house. They should adjust to the new reality because the world they operated in before is gone now and won’t be back for a very long time.

Mmmmm. I think home setting can get a bit boring after few months though. But i do agree with u its bizarre 4 cans cost as much as 1 pint. although pint of guinness is much better from a tap than a can

growleaves · 18-05-2020 05:05PM

Hurrache,

A cause-and-effect assumption is the average Joe's idea of what science is. Really that is only the beginnings of a scientific investigation. Its the starting block, not the finishing line.

RebelRising18 · 18-05-2020 05:10PM

What are the restrictions for meeting up with friends in an outdoor setting from phase 2 onwards?

iamwhoiam · 18-05-2020 05:11PM

growleaves wrote: »

I tried to go to Argos today but the maitre'd said I needed a reservation.

Is it click and collect only now ??

Hurrache · 18-05-2020 05:14PM

growleaves wrote: »

Hurrache,

A cause-and-effect assumption is the average Joe's idea of what science is. Really that is only the beginnings of a scientific investigation. Its the starting block, not the finishing line.

It is. Nobody, not even specialists in the area, can say that the lock down was too long/short, it's was too early/late to go back to school etc etc. All they can say, for the most part, is that we don't know until we actually see the results.

stephenjmcd · 18-05-2020 05:15PM

Blaze420 wrote: »

You know oddly enough I couldn’t care less if the pubs stay closed, I can replicate the same atmosphere at home with much cheaper booze and having friends around once the lockdown is over. The pubs are ****ed because most people will hopefully realise that a 4 pack of beer is the same price as a pint in most places, and there’s no risk of catching corona in your own house. They should adjust to the new reality because the world they operated in before is gone now and won’t be back for a very long time.

Sure everyones known the price from an off licence compared to a pub for years and still make make choice to go once a week or once every 2 weeks or whatever it might be.
Yes the way they operated before will be changed for a while once they reopen but they'll eventually adapt.

As for not catching corona in your own house well yes it is possible if one of those friends you have over is asymptomatic.

lainey_d_123 · 18-05-2020 05:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I equally find it hard to believe anecdotal evidence like this. Your experience is so disproportionate to the empirical data as to be almost unbelievable. I know no-one who has been sick with anything more serious than fatigue or a slight cough that soon passed (and might have been nothing), and neither does anyone in my London based family. And I have not heard of any friends of friends being ill (BTW, I lived in London most of my life and know a lot of people there)

So our divergent experiences are influencing a completely different behaviour. Not only will I be getting back to work asap, I plan to travel in July and swallow whatever quarantine I have on the way back

Why would I lie? If you choose not to believe me, that's on you. What exactly is the 'empirical data'? Did those people you know get tested? If not, maybe they didn't have covid, and they just had a bit of a cold. All the people I'm talking about tested positive. I also know lots of people who didn't get ill - so what? I'm not talking about the current chance of being infected, I'm saying that a significant proportion of the people I know who have *definitely* had covid have had it pretty bad.

My doctor here confirmed that 'mild cases' often are like those I've described - weeks of quite severe illness, pain and fatigue. And we don't know what kind of chronic implications there could be - some illnesses can result in things like chronic fatigue syndrome, with people having symptoms and poor health for the rest of their lives. There has been evidence of long term lung damage from recovered patients.

I certainly wouldn't be confident to stroll around thinking it's just like the flu.

18-05-2020 05:18PM

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Why would I lie? If you choose not to believe me, that's on you. What exactly is the 'empirical data'? Did those people you know get tested? If not, maybe they didn't have covid, and they just had a bit of a cold. All the people I'm talking about tested positive. I also know lots of people who didn't get ill - so what? I'm not talking about the current chance of being infected, I'm saying that a significant proportion of the people I know who have *definitely* had covid have had it pretty bad.

My doctor here confirmed that 'mild cases' often are like those I've described - weeks of quite severe illness, pain and fatigue. And we don't know what kind of chronic implications there could be - some illnesses can result in things like chronic fatigue syndrome, with people having symptoms and poor health for the rest of their lives. There has been evidence of long term lung damage from recovered patients.

I certainly wouldn't be confident to stroll around thinking it's just like the flu.

I'll take my chances

paw patrol · 18-05-2020 05:20PM

must be some heart broken lockdown cheerleaders today.

Blueshoe · 18-05-2020 05:22PM

When will the private hospitals be back in business again?
Public system doesn't need them anymore.

lainey_d_123 · 18-05-2020 05:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll take my chances

That's on you, but you really seem to have your head in the sand regarding the chances of getting a bad case of it.

growleaves · 18-05-2020 05:24PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Is it click and collect only now ??

Seems to be. There was no queue where I was but they turned me away.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-05-2020 05:27PM

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

That's on you, but you really seem to have your head in the sand regarding the chances of getting a bad case of it.

Empirical evidence would suggest 80% of covid cases have no symptoms (people dont even know they have it or had it) or mild symptoms.

80%.

As is currently, in terms of mortality anyways, car crashes deaths will still be higher this year than covid deaths. Fintan would appreciate this sentence.

18-05-2020 05:29PM

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

That's on you, but you really seem to have your head in the sand regarding the chances of getting a bad case of it.

And I think you are over-egging it. We'll never meet in the middle on this one

Ginger n Lemon · 18-05-2020 05:31PM

Huge news, probably very good in short term (1-5 years) anyways

"France, Germany propose €500B EU recovery fund
European Commission would borrow cash on financial markets, then distribute money as grants.

By LILI BAYER, HANS VON DER BURCHARD AND BJARKE SMITH-MEYER 5/18/20, 6:14 PM CET Updated 5/18/20, 6:20 PM CET
France and Germany on Monday called for a €500 billion recovery fund that would give cash to EU countries impacted by the economic fallout of the coronavirus crisis.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron presented a joint position for the fund, aimed at helping to kick-start all EU economies and avoid distortions in the bloc's single market"

Only question is - how much of this will we get?

lainey_d_123 · 18-05-2020 05:32PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Empirical evidence would suggest 80% of covid cases have no symptoms (people dont even know they have it or had it) or mild symptoms.

80%.

As is currently, in terms of mortality anyways, car crashes deaths will still be higher this year than covid deaths. Fintan would appreciate this sentence.

The people I know are all classed as 'mild' cases, with the exception of the one who ended up in intensive care, and even he was only 'moderate'. A 'mild' case just basically means that you don't require ventilation or other inpatient treatments. It can still mean weeks or months of being extremely ill. People hear 'mild' and think it's just like a bit of a cold. It often isn't.

Sure, some people seem to get lucky and have few to no symptoms, but that 80% is a spectrum, that's my point.

snowcat · 18-05-2020 05:34PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Followed a few hours later by another example, similar but slightly different.

This was posted in another thread
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/europe/2020/05/18/70-cases-of-covid-19-at-french-schools-days-after-re-opening.html

70 out of 150000 sounds like a great result.

boring accountant · 18-05-2020 05:36PM

Colibri wrote: »

https://twitter.com/NicksCoffeeCo/status/1262311230070538241?s=20

I love to see landlords eff up like this because you can always get an order for costs out of someone with property in their name!

Ginger n Lemon · 18-05-2020 05:44PM

snowcat wrote: »

70 out of 150000 sounds like a great result.

Yeah, i think eventually you gotta weigh up risks of lack of education and societal development versus other risks.

Children grow very quickly, if they dont develop properly even for 3 months, god knows what long term issues this could uncover. (our children will suffer for good part of 6 months :S)

retro:electro · 18-05-2020 05:58PM

We have the lowest number of reported deaths today since the end of March, and Tony is still whinging and finger wagging about that survey which shows 46% of Irish people feel the worst is over. He finds this “concerning”. Are we not even allowed a bit of optimism now? Jaysus is there anything we’re allowed at all? He’s never happy unless he’s miserable as my mother used to say

Arghus · 18-05-2020 06:01PM

More low figures today, great to see. Further proof that restrictions are necessary and are doing what they are supposed to do.

18-05-2020 06:03PM

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Here's the thing.

I live in London, one of the worst hit cities in Europe. I personally know 7 different people who had very serious complications from Covid, and not one of them is elderly, or in particularly bad health. They're all under 40 (one if them is just 26), and three of them have been in hospital at least once with it, one of them in intensive care. They've been sick for over 6 weeks now. Every time they think they're getting better, it hits them again. All have reported very, very bad breathing difficulties and lung pains.

So I find it hard to believe that Covid is just like a bit of a cold for most people. I think even 'mild' cases can often include symptoms like these people have had, for weeks or even months on end. Who wants to risk getting that?!

My sister is a frontline NHS nurse in London and my daughter who is 27 lives in London too. Neither of them have had Covid or personally know anyone else who has. My daughter works in Microsoft and previously worked in British Airways yet not one of her past or present colleagues or friends has Covid. Likewise with my sister who has lived in UK for 25 years.

I'm not disputing how rampant Covid was in the UK and how much bigger the spread was due to the denser population but there is going to be a "risk" with everything in life. Now is the time to get over our fears and start being productive and living again. We have learnt in the last 9 weeks how to behave around this virus. It wont be what it was like before but it will be a step in the right direction. Having said that I'm glad I'm in Ireland and not the UK.

(I'm amazed no matter what topic is being discussed Lainey that you always seem to have numerous friends and acquaintances you can quote who have been through the exact same experience , maybe its just a coincidence.....

)

Quantum Erasure · 18-05-2020 06:05PM

paw patrol wrote: »

must be some heart broken lockdown cheerleaders today.

show me one

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings