Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady · 15-05-2020 01:19PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

I'd believe you,only SF wouldn't turn down FF if they offered a coalition would they
So your premise is full of holes

No they wouldn't - if they could negotiate a satisfactory programme for government.

Michael Martin was all for a coalition when it looked like he was going to finish on 50 seats...he shut that door fairly quickly when he realised that he would have to talk to a party that is not prepared to move on it's core principles...not for a wee bypass here or a reopened Garda Station there.

Redgirl82 · 15-05-2020 01:38PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No they wouldn't - if they could negotiate a satisfactory programme for government.

Michael Martin was all for a coalition when it looked like he was going to finish on 50 seats...he shut that door fairly quickly when he realised that he would have to talk to a party that is not prepared to move on it's core principles...not for a wee bypass here or a reopened Garda Station there.

I didn’t hear anything from FF to say they wanted to go into government

More fantasy, I guess you have moved on from FG, Pitt you couldn’t move to Sinn Fein

FrancieBrady · 15-05-2020 01:43PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I didn’t hear anything from FF to say they wanted to go into government

More fantasy, I guess you have moved on from FG, Pitt you couldn’t move to Sinn Fein

You really should learn to use google when you don't know stuff, claiming things never happened is a weak way of debating .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/martin-opens-the-door-to-coalition-with-sinn-fein-38941313.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fianna-f%25C3%25A1il-reaction-martin-opens-door-to-government-with-fg-or-sf-1.4167246

Mortelaro · 15-05-2020 01:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No they wouldn't - if they could negotiate a satisfactory programme for government.

Michael Martin was all for a coalition when it looked like he was going to finish on 50 seats...he shut that door fairly quickly when he realised that he would have to talk to a party that is not prepared to move on it's core principles...not for a wee bypass here or a reopened Garda Station there.

You're saying there SF wouldn't go into government with FF, but you you know darn right well that they would
Core principles my aunt Sally
Deals always trump manifestos
Only FF don't want to deal

markodaly · 15-05-2020 01:51PM

jm08 wrote: »

My first general election to vote in. Even I knew then that abolishing road tax was just stupid.

I was on about Property Tax. SF wants to abolish it, again and we saw how that worked out... do you think we should abolish LPT?

FrancieBrady · 15-05-2020 01:54PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

You're saying there SF wouldn't go into government with FF, but you you know darn right well that they would
Core principles my aunt Sally
Deals always trump manifestos
Only FF don't want to deal

I said what they said...they will go in when they can negotiate a satisfactory programme for government that respects their mandate.

Not because they got freebies to look the other way.

Hard concept to grasp if you are in love with how coaition has been done by the power swap. That is why MM shut the door...he knew he couldn't buy control

blanch152 · 15-05-2020 02:04PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I edited the post to fix the quote tags. What 'name' did I remove?

And now I cannot mention Westminister when discussing NI? I hope to live until the day that that is not necessary.

I listed the achievements. I will bullet point them for clarity, in case that is your issue.
They have delivered/achieved:
1. Irish language Rights
2. SSM
3. Women's Rights
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust.
5. An all island approach to Brexit.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19
7. Reductions in contentious parades
8. Normalised the flying of flags

Just some of the things that SF can take credit for being involved in. And nobody is denying that they have also failed in other areas.

(1) Irish Language Rights: There is no standalone Irish Language Act, and SF have agreed that there will not be one. This is an achievement to rank alongside getting the British out of Ireland ie. it didn't happen.

(2) SSM: Legislated by the Tory government, in a parliament which Sinn Fein boycott.

(3) Women's Rights: Gender pay gap in Northern Ireland is far worse than the South and than even the rest of the UK. Abortion was legislated by the Tory government, in a parliament which Sinn Fein boycott.

(4) Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust: Pushing? That is an achievement? The reform was led by others, Sinn Fein stood by and spectated.

(5) An all island approach to Brexit: Sinn Fein did nothing to achieve this. They weren't involved at any stage in any of the serious negotiations, they contributed nothing constructive, they talked on the sidelines.

(6) An All island approach to Covid 19: What all-island approach? Where is the NI lockdown exit plan? When are we going to see it? This is a mirage.

(7) Reductions in contentious parades: If anything epitomises the small-town approach of Sinn Fein, listing this and the next point as achievements surely ranks right up there. Did they manage to set up a few Neighbourhood Watch Schemes and Tidy Towns organisations as well? [Oops, forgot that they have a history with the friendly Neighbourly Kneecapping Project]. Seriously, the fact that parades is considered a serious issue when health, education, crime, immigration, social welfare, taxation, local charges, broadband, infrastructural provision, public transport etc. are all, without exception, missing from this list, says it all.

(8) Normalised the flying of flags: Eh, who cares? The most nauseating issue in respect of flags is the "republican" tradition of appropriating our national flag to place on the coffins of terrorists. Sinn Fein have done nothing to stop this.

My earlier post, on the complete lack of achievement from Sinn Fein, stands.

blanch152 wrote: »

I am still waiting for a single achievement of Sinn Fein. Lobbying others to do something isn't an achievement, especially if it is something they would have done anyway (e.g. drop the best Brexit outcome - SM and CU - when it became unachievable and drop to a lower possible outcome).

blanch152 · 15-05-2020 02:12PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You really should learn to use google when you don't know stuff, claiming things never happened is a weak way of debating .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/martin-opens-the-door-to-coalition-with-sinn-fein-38941313.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fianna-f%25C3%25A1il-reaction-martin-opens-door-to-government-with-fg-or-sf-1.4167246

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No they wouldn't - if they could negotiate a satisfactory programme for government.

Michael Martin was all for a coalition when it looked like he was going to finish on 50 seats...he shut that door fairly quickly when he realised that he would have to talk to a party that is not prepared to move on it's core principles...not for a wee bypass here or a reopened Garda Station there.

More fantasy and embellishment.

"I think we’ll let things calm down today,” he told RTÉ. “We’ll assess when the full count is in and the full number of seats are in. I’m a democrat, I listen to the people. I respect the decision of the people.”"

That is what Micheal Martin said, from the link you provided.

It does not equate in any way to "Michael Martin was all for a coalition when it looked like he was going to finish on 50 seats..."

Revisionist history, take a bow, you are almost happening in real time now.

FrancieBrady · 15-05-2020 02:17PM

blanch152 wrote: »

(1) Irish Language Rights: There is no standalone Irish Language Act, and SF have agreed that there will not be one. This is an achievement to rank alongside getting the British out of Ireland ie. it didn't happen.

(2) SSM: Legislated by the Tory government, in a parliament which Sinn Fein boycott.

Which is what should happen when all other attempts are exhausted.
SF (and others) progressed it to the point where the UK parliament were mandated to step in.

(3) Women's Rights: Gender pay gap in Northern Ireland is far worse than the South and than even the rest of the UK. Abortion was legislated by the Tory government, in a parliament which Sinn Fein boycott.

See above.

(4) Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust: Pushing? That is an achievement? The reform was led by others, Sinn Fein stood by and spectated.

Ha ha. See the SDLP trying to accept watered down reform and SF's reaction.
. There was no proper functioning Police Board until SF was happy with it. Talking utter nonsense as usual blanch.

(5) An all island approach to Brexit: Sinn Fein did nothing to achieve this. They weren't involved at any stage in any of the serious negotiations, they contributed nothing constructive, they talked on the sidelines.

Nonsense again. I posted the Dáil debates before where they lobbied for an all island appraoch against Enda's government position at that time.
FG did an about face on that when SF's prediction of what it would mean for a border came true.

(6) An All island approach to Covid 19: What all-island approach? Where is the NI lockdown exit plan? When are we going to see it? This is a mirage.

SF were pivotal in the getting the North -South co-operation going. The reason there is isn't full alignment, is in three letters D-U_P and their refusal to be seen doing it. But thankfully it is all but in alignment.

(7) Reductions in contentious parades: If anything epitomises the small-town approach of Sinn Fein, listing this and the next point as achievements surely ranks right up there. Did they manage to set up a few Neighbourhood Watch Schemes and Tidy Towns organisations as well? [Oops, forgot that they have a history with the friendly Neighbourly Kneecapping Project]. Seriously, the fact that parades is considered a serious issue when health, education, crime, immigration, social welfare, taxation, local charges, broadband, infrastructural provision, public transport etc. are all, without exception, missing from this list, says it all.

(8) Normalised the flying of flags: Eh, who cares? The most nauseating issue in respect of flags is the "republican" tradition of appropriating our national flag to place on the coffins of terrorists. Sinn Fein have done nothing to stop this.

Yes, we know a man of partitionist persuasions would not see any value or importance in this achievement. You don't care and never did what people have to endure in NI. Never better highlighted by your derogatory remarks regarding this.

FrancieBrady · 15-05-2020 02:19PM

blanch152 wrote: »

More fantasy and embellishment.

"I think we’ll let things calm down today,” he told RTÉ. “We’ll assess when the full count is in and the full number of seats are in. I’m a democrat, I listen to the people. I respect the decision of the people.”"

That is what Micheal Martin said, from the link you provided.

It does not equate in any way to "Michael Martin was all for a coalition when it looked like he was going to finish on 50 seats..."

Revisionist history, take a bow, you are almost happening in real time now.

Wiser heads than you saw it as plain and simple 'opening the door' to a party he vowed to have no dealings with.
If only he had said it about another party too and then welched on that, we could prove it.

James Brown · 15-05-2020 02:34PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

You said you voted for Sinn Fein based on housing but you have no idea what the housing policy is they have?

Great to see the people of Ireland have such consideration for the privileged that many Irish died to get them

Personally, well first off I would go after all the people sitting in council houses not paying rent. Would you not think that is a good policy? free up millions to build more houses

No, I read up on the housing part after lies were spun regarding it, just to clarify for myself. As I said if they simply came out and said, 'build more social and affordable' I'd have given them a vote. I find the details change when folk try implement policy so I'm not naive enough to think every fine detail will be achieved exactly as written.

What do you mean by:

Great to see the people of Ireland have such consideration for the privileged that many Irish died to get them

It's comes across as bizarre. Can you explain?

Yes I would. Rent should be taken directly from wages/welfare etc.
But you didn't answer my question?
Do you feel record breaking crises year on year is something we need to keep?
Rent arrears is a problem but even if we'd zero rent arrears we'd still be follwing the same policies right?

jm08 · 15-05-2020 02:37PM

markodaly wrote: »

I was on about Property Tax. SF wants to abolish it, again and we saw how that worked out... do you think we should abolish LPT?

I think taxation is fairer.

James Brown · 15-05-2020 02:39PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

As I posted the main issue I see is non payment of rent, why waste more money Building house to give to people who have no intention of paying rent?

Fix the current system first

The concentration should be on affordable housing and fix the public transport so people can live outside main cities.

You realise that instead of building social we are entering into 25 year leases with vulture funds, to house the very same people right? So the options are hotels, 25 year leases, private landlords or social housing.

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I would support higher rates of repossessions in Ireland, this would drive down mortgage rates for everyone else. Why should everyone suffer for the few.

We have a society and we must deal with everyone at some level. If you push for evictions, cool, then we need pay for a hotel.

Mortelaro · 15-05-2020 02:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said what they said...they will go in when they can negotiate a satisfactory programme for government that respects their mandate.

Not because they got freebies to look the other way.

Hard concept to grasp if you are in love with how coaition has been done by the power swap. That is why MM shut the door...he knew he couldn't buy control

I doubt now that MM had one view on SF one day and another the next
His problem was sharing Taoiseach with SF
That's his only problem
A problem he wouldn't have had if he would have got the 55 to 60 seats he expected

SF on the other hand would do a deal with FF
Theres no doubt about that

James Brown · 15-05-2020 02:55PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

I doubt now that MM had one view on SF one day and another the next
His problem was sharing Taoiseach with SF
That's his only problem
A problem he wouldn't have had if he would have got the 55 to 60 seats he expected

SF on the other hand would do a deal with FF
Theres no doubt about that

He put it to FF and they refused. MM would have gone with it had FF not resisted. I think he still would. Better to use SF than risk getting used by FG.

FrancieBrady · 15-05-2020 03:00PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

I doubt now that MM had one view on SF one day and another the next
His problem was sharing Taoiseach with SF
That's his only problem
A problem he wouldn't have had if he would have got the 55 to 60 seats he expected

SF on the other hand would do a deal with FF
Theres no doubt about that

If ever an answer was 'suiting' yourself, that is it.

I don't care what you think his problem was...he opened the door when he thought he had control and shut it when that wasn't the case.

He adopted the same position regarding FG...'Never Never' but is now up to his oxters trying to sledgehammer a government.

Both FG and FF knew that the safety net was always gonna be the two of them concocting a deal to keep power between them.
Looks like the Greens are the meat in that sandwich again. The Last Waltz of the power swap, as they say.

Tokyo · 15-05-2020 03:13PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Do I have to mention again this is the Sinn Fein thread...

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Another post, nothing of interest. Does this normal work? just bore people to death?

Redgirl82 wrote: »

The adults are talking now.

Mod: @Redgirl82 - rein it in. Next time will earn you a threadban.

Mortelaro · 15-05-2020 03:26PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If ever an answer was 'suiting' yourself, that is it.

I don't care what you think his problem was...he opened the door when he thought he had control and shut it when that wasn't the case.

But you're agreeing with me,that's what I said,MM was only interested in SF as a junior partner

He adopted the same position regarding FG...'Never Never' but is now up to his oxters trying to sledgehammer a government.

Ain't he lucky that Leo left the door open then as a last resort solution

Both FG and FF knew that the safety net was always gonna be the two of them concocting a deal to keep power between them.
Looks like the Greens are the meat in that sandwich again.

They may have been thinking about it,but one of them,FG,was prepared to walk away unless there was no other hope of a government and at least they stuck to their guns until all other options were tried

The Last Waltz of the power swap, as they say.

Nope,just another compromise, like what we have had since the '77 government, the last majorly single party government we ever had,dissolved that Dáil

markodaly · 15-05-2020 03:37PM

jm08 wrote: »

I think taxation is fairer.

They are both taxation.

FrancieBrady · 15-05-2020 04:21PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

But you're agreeing with me,that's what I said,MM was only interested in SF as a junior partner

Ain't he lucky that Leo left the door open then as a last resort solution

They may have been thinking about it,but one of them,FG,was prepared to walk away unless there was no other hope of a government and at least they stuck to their guns until all other options were tried

Nope,just another compromise, like what we have had since the '77 government, the last majorly single party government we ever had,dissolved that Dáil

You are codding yourself if you think FG were doing anything but covering blushes.

Mortelaro · 15-05-2020 04:25PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are codding yourself if you think FG were doing anything but covering blushes.

You would say that...

Redgirl82 · 15-05-2020 04:59PM

Bowie wrote: »

You realise that instead of building social we are entering into 25 year leases with vulture funds, to house the very same people right? So the options are hotels, 25 year leases, private landlords or social housing.

We have a society and we must deal with everyone at some level. If you push for evictions, cool, then we need pay for a hotel.

What is a vulture fund?

Redgirl82 · 15-05-2020 05:03PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are codding yourself if you think FG were doing anything but covering blushes.

For someone that seemingly is a Sinn Fein supporter, you seem to have a huge insight into FG and FF. Where do you source this information?

James Brown · 15-05-2020 05:05PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

What is a vulture fund?

I tell you what, you respond to my questions and I'll do same. Otherwise it just comes across like you are dodging.

Redgirl82 · 15-05-2020 05:10PM

Bowie wrote: »

I tell you what, you respond to my questions and I'll do same. Otherwise it just comes across like you are dodging.

What about you voting? well you said you voted without reading a manifesto

You not think its a bit disrespectful to the people that died to allow you to vote and you couldn't even spend an hour reading all the manifesto's from the parties?

You also seem to be on here a lot talking about how great Sinn Fein is but you haven't even read the main document they reference for voting? you not find that a bit odd?

McMurphy · 15-05-2020 05:13PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

For someone that seemingly is a Sinn Fein supporter, you seem to have a huge insight into FG and FF. Where do you source this information?

People who follow politics and political developments in knowledge of other political partys shocker.

James Brown · 15-05-2020 05:19PM

Redgirl82 wrote: »

What about you voting? well you said you voted without reading a manifesto

You not think its a bit disrespectful to the people that died to allow you to vote and you couldn't even spend an hour reading all the manifesto's from the parties?

You also seem to be on here a lot talking about how great Sinn Fein is but you haven't even read the main document they reference for voting? you not find that a bit odd?

No. I got the gist.

They died for my right to do as I please on election day, even not vote at all.

No I haven't. I couldn't even name more than a handful of their politicians TBH.
No, I see their intentions on certain issues and like them.
So where did we land on:

Bowie wrote: »

...
Do you feel record breaking crises year on year is something we need to keep?
Rent arrears is a problem but even if we'd zero rent arrears we'd still be following the same policies right?

Bowie wrote: »

You realise that instead of building social we are entering into 25 year leases with vulture funds, to house the very same people right? ...

Redgirl82 · 15-05-2020 05:20PM

McMurphy wrote: »

People who follow politics and political developments in knowledge of other political partys shocker.

But Francie spent all day yesterday and couldn't answer a simple question on Sinn Fein yet today seems to know the internal working of FF and FG. I would expect the opposition as a SF supporter he should know more about Sinn Fein, would you not think?

Redgirl82 · 15-05-2020 05:21PM

Bowie wrote: »

No. I got the gist.

They died for my right to do as I please on election day, even not vote at all.

No I haven't. I couldn't even name more than a handful of their politician TBH.
No, I see their intentions on certain issues and like them.
So where did we land on:

I have no idea what a vulture fund is, that was the question?

Have I given you enough time to google?

* Seems having to find out what a vulture fund is taking Bowie longer than expected :-)

Redgirl82 · 15-05-2020 05:25PM

Bowie wrote: »

No. I got the gist.

They died for my right to do as I please on election day, even not vote at all.

No I haven't. I couldn't even name more than a handful of their politicians TBH.
No, I see their intentions on certain issues and like them.
So where did we land on:

I do find it strange you are around a lot of these political thread lecturing people on how exception Sinn Fein are. This is based on a quick look at your posting history.

Yet you haven't even read the manifesto of the party you voted for? so that would suggest you haven't read any of the other parties, not think that's a bit of an issue?

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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