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Is it just me or have SF vanished?
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FrancieBrady wrote: »I actually think, given they are dealing with one of the most fundamentalist and culturally bigoted parties in western Europe in Northern Ireland that they have done spectacularly well.
They spent 20 years advancing NI back to normality (other parties were involved in what is technically a 5 party coalition as well) and they have delivered (even though they had to walk away) for Irish language SSM and womens's right, they have worked hard at normalising parades, the flying of flags. They have worked at creating and monitoring a newly structured police force ALL the people can have some confidence in. And most recently have aligned North and South on Brexit and Covid. They were talking about special status and treatment of NI in Brexit long before the government here were and spoke on it in the Dáíl and Europe.
A lot of this is tipping around the edges and belies the fact that NI society is changing without SF, just look at the vote share of SF and the DUP recently, both declining.
This is because both these parties have an inherent interest to keep the Green/Orange sectarian status quo.
SF give as good as they get from the DUP when it comes to this type of policy.
A good example would be reforming primary and secondary education and not supporting the sectarian makeup of schools. If SF really really wanted to bring NI to Western Europe norms, then they would multi-denominational schools, like they do in the south, but in the North, they want to keep that sectarian makeup of schools, as they see it as a good way to keep votes. Keep people tied into the old ways.
If Catholics and Protestants up north mixed more, married into their respective 'clans' more that would break the cycle of extremism that currently exists. However, that would mean centrist parties would then benefit from this, not the extremist parties. So, SF and the DUP are happy to carve the region up.
Just one recent example, in regards to the census, where people would tick the 'Athiest' box, SF has pushed for an additional question about the background that person grew up i.e. catholic or protestant.
So, are you a Catholic atheist or a protestant atheist. I am sure there is a joke in there somewhere.
SF is absolutely obsessed about religion and the demographic wave that will sweep NI into the arms of the south, lovely theory, except for the fact that more and more people, especially the young don't give a $hit.0 -
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FrancieBrady wrote: »Sure, I 'made up' the delivery of 'Irish Language Rights, SSM, and Women's Rights after years of pressure and attempts to have them passed by the Executive but thwarted by the DUP and UUP and TUV using Petitions of Concern.
I made up the Reform of Policing in Northern Ireland
I 'made up' what happened with Brexit and the avoidance of a Hard Border.
I 'made up' the establishing of an all Ireland body to manage Covid-19
I 'made up' the reduction in contentious parading
I 'made up' the normalising of flag flying.
As I come-back or response, it doesn't lack uniqueness anyway Redgirl...just pretend the above never happened.
In fairness, a lot of what you mentioned is fluff.
Going on about flags and parades as 'achievements' is kinda odd for a Western European political party.
Policing was agreed as part of the GFA and SF refused to endorse it for years, until they relented.
A hard border? SF did nothing on that front, you can thank FG for that, I know you won't be there you go.
It is notable though on the things you have not mentioned.
The big-ticket items, jobs, economy, housing, health, and education..... what are SF's achievements there? Feck all to be honest.
So, if all SF can do is point to success about flags and fluff about parades yet ignore, say the state of the health service, then you know they are in trouble.
This is why their vote share is falling, they think it's still the 90's.0 -
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In fairness, a lot of what you mentioned is fluff.
Going on about flags and parades as 'achievements' is kinda odd for a Western European political party.
Policing was agreed as part of the GFA and SF refused to endorse it for years, until they relented.
A hard border? SF did nothing on that front, you can thank FG for that, I know you won't be there you go.
It is notable though on the things you have not mentioned.
The big-ticket items, jobs, economy, housing, health, and education..... what are SF's achievements there? Feck all to be honest.
So, if all SF can do is point to success about flags and fluff about parades yet ignore, say the state of the health service, then you know they are in trouble.
This is why their vote share is falling, they think it's still the 90's.
You don't know a lot about the north, do you Mark?
'Flags and Parades' are a very 'odd' thing and getting the OO, Loyalism and Unionsim to behave around those issues has been some of the most bitter and acrimonious work any political party has done on these islands.
It may mean nothing to you but it has made a massive difference to society there.
I laugh at your mealy mouthedness over policing. Really laugh.
There would have been no disbandment and renaming of the disgraced RUC, the PSNI now has proper oversight and is building the trust of all the community. There has been mammoth work done there and SF were at the forefront of that.
They were way ahead of FG on the border. I linked to Enda Kenny rulling out special status before. SF used the Dáil debates to argue for it and the Dublin government's position changed and the entire body politic here got behind them.
I didn't mention the 'big ticket' items because they more or less function like they do here. And here you will have the usual arguments about who is doing what in those areas.
By improving the areas I highlighted and normalising society then those big ticket areas will improve.
But there is a finite limit on what anyone can do in the north as it is still a failed entity as a result of partition.0 -
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In fairness, a lot of what you mentioned is fluff.
Going on about flags and parades as 'achievements' is kinda odd for a Western European political party.
Policing was agreed as part of the GFA and SF refused to endorse it for years, until they relented.
A hard border? SF did nothing on that front, you can thank FG for that, I know you won't be there you go.
It is notable though on the things you have not mentioned.
The big-ticket items, jobs, economy, housing, health, and education..... what are SF's achievements there? Feck all to be honest.
So, if all SF can do is point to success about flags and fluff about parades yet ignore, say the state of the health service, then you know they are in trouble.
This is why their vote share is falling, they think it's still the 90's.
Exactly, imagine it took two pages of posts to get to this fluff. So either he hasn't a clue or Sinn Fein record in the North is actually this poor.
Time to move on anyway, couldn't spend another day going around in circles0 -
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Bishop of hope wrote: »Societaly as well, long gone are the days the state or councils could hire on workers for f'all, build a shanty with a shed at the bottom of the garden for a toilet.
Our own expectations what is acceptable housing is a major factor.
Housing hasn't just increased in line with inflation, standards and expectations have gone through the roof (pun intended).
Slums were everywhere, in every town the length an breadth of Ireland, this was housing, a roof over your head, you weren't homeless but you lived in a hovel.
We need more housing built,including 1 and 2 bedroom units
I know of places,where families have been reared and moved out,parents left in 3/4 bedroom houses.....all the while we have others raising kids out of hotel rooms
Theres no sense to this,
nor is there any sense to building top-of-line A2 rated houses for corporation houses either.....if someone wants to live in luxery,let them buy their own,simple,modest houses is whats needed
(Love the username btw ) 0 -
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This discussion has been closed.
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