Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

hmmm · 13-05-2020 03:01PM

owlbethere wrote: »

It says the evidence is limited. How can we get a true picture of children and their role in the possibility of being spreaders? We are living with a range of restrictions to slow down the spread of the virus.

We have lots of case statistics from countries outside Ireland where they have traced the sources of clusters. It's the same virus, it's not unique to us.

There's a few countries who have already brought younger children back to schools. We should know shortly whether they are seeing a spike in cases in schools as a consequence.

giveitholly · 13-05-2020 03:01PM

Stheno wrote: »

Leo said kn the last hour that opening schools and childcare is one of the safest things that can be done in the next couple of months
https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1260568871976816642?s=19

But it will still be September before they go back,no way will the teachers go back before the summer holidays

yourdeadwright · 13-05-2020 03:01PM

Stheno wrote: »

Leo said kn the last hour that opening schools and childcare is one of the safest things that can be done in the next couple of months
https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1260568871976816642?s=19

So should not be to long before I can dump the kids off to there grand parents

What a day that will be forever one kids can't wait to play in nana's house, nana and grand da can't wait to see them and I'm dieing for the break

stephenjmcd · 13-05-2020 03:03PM

Stheno wrote: »

Leo said in the last hour that opening schools and childcare is one of the safest things that can be done in the next couple of months
https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1260568871976816642?s=19

I know 6th years aren't kids but yet they couldn't run a leaving cert and now he says schools and childcare could be one of the safest things???

hmmm · 13-05-2020 03:04PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I know 6th years aren't kids but yet they couldn't run a leaving cert and now he says schools and childcare could be one of the safest things???

Young kids, not older ones. In Switzerland they've asked under 10s to return to school. Germany is still advising caution, and says there is not enough evidence yet.

giveitholly · 13-05-2020 03:05PM

hmmm wrote: »

Young kids, not older ones. In Switzerland they've asked under 10s to return to school.

If leaving cert students can't obey social distancing during there exams then there isn't much hope for them in the future

Tiger Roll · 13-05-2020 03:05PM

ACitizenErased wrote:

Where is the evidence for this? We don't have the space nor amount of teachers required to social distance/split up classes. We have the highest pupil to teacher ratio in the eurozone.

You will see a different kind of evidence from next week when " groups of up to 4 not from same household are allowed meet in public " . This will be open house for gangs of children and teenagers to meet up freely and mingle together, the required social distancing simply wont happen , nor will the " for a short time" aspect be adhered too. So it's one thing to question how will social distancing etc work in schools in September when from next week children of all ages will mix together

owlbethere · 13-05-2020 03:19PM

So far the news and the situation with animals getting the covid19, is small.

The Facebook group I'm on that's for covid19, there's a thread about pets. The news that we have so far about the animals, that's not isolated cases. People on the group with covid19 and their pets have experienced sickness along with the family. People aren't taking their pets to the vets so we aren't getting a true picture of the situation on animals. I can understand why they are not taking their pets to the vets, I don't think it's neglect, it's more of a position where they can't due to being sick themselves.

One person of many who posted there said that the first member of the family to get symptoms was their cat who was sneezing. Hard to say what that situation is exactly. If members of the family came down with the virus first and passed it onto the cat and it was the cat who was first to show symptoms.

If anyone wants the name of the group, PM me and I will share it, if you want to have a read of things yourself.

Stheno · 13-05-2020 03:23PM

owlbethere wrote: »

So far the news and the situation with animals getting the covid19, is small.

The Facebook group I'm on that's for covid19, there's a thread about pets. The news that we have so far about the animals, that's not isolated cases. People on the group with covid19 and their pets have experienced sickness along with the family. People aren't taking their pets to the vets so we aren't getting a true picture of the situation on animals. I can understand why they are not taking their pets to the vets, I don't think it's neglect, it's more of a position where they can't due to being sick themselves.

One person of many who posted there said that the first member of the family to get symptoms was their cat who was sneezing. Hard to say what that situation is exactly. If members of the family came down with the virus first and passed it onto the cat and it was the cat who was first to show symptoms.

If anyone wants the name of the group, PM me and I will share it, if you want to have a read of things yourself.

Eh sneezing is not a symptom according to the HSE?

13-05-2020 03:31PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Where is the evidence for this? We don't have the space nor amount of teachers required to social distance/split up classes. We have the highest pupil to teacher ratio in the eurozone.

https://www.hiqa.ie/reports-and-publications/health-technology-assessment/evidence-summary-spread-covid-19-children

New Home · 13-05-2020 03:31PM

Stheno wrote: »

Eh sneezing is not a symptom according to the HSE?

In animals?

Stheno · 13-05-2020 03:37PM

New Home wrote: »

In animals?

Ah I read it wrong!

13-05-2020 03:39PM

There is a strain of the virus affecting children. Its in New York, UK and has also appeared in Montreal. Its too early and unsafe to send kids back to school until the virus is no longer in the community.

Regarding the above post, cats gave tested positive for Corona virus in NY and Hong Kong.

13-05-2020 03:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a strain of the virus affecting children. Its in New York, UK and has also appeared in Montreal. Its too early and unsafe to send kids back to school until the virus is no longer in the community.

Regarding the above post, cats gave tested positive for Corona virus in NY and Hong Kong.

There is no new strain in New York, UK and Montreal other than fear mongering. Kawasaki disease and similar post viral inflammatory conditions are known rare complications of viral infections in children. These are rare, but do occur and the rate of occurrence is within those you would normally expect to see, just they are associated with Covid-19, not influenza or any of the other myriad of viruses that children may get, and is giving an apparent spike given the numbers in New York, London etc recently

hmmm · 13-05-2020 03:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a strain of the virus affecting children. Its in New York, UK and has also appeared in Montreal. Its too early and unsafe to send kids back to school until the virus is no longer in the community.

More research is needed on these reports agreed, but there will probably not be a blanket assurance that it is 100% safe for kids - we can't keep kids out of school forever. I'm not a "lift the lockdown" fanatic, but we will have to learn to live alongside the virus for quite a while and not hide from it forever.

Hector Savage · 13-05-2020 03:53PM

Vitamin D evidence mounting ...

wadacrack · 13-05-2020 03:56PM

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1260584306302476289

khalessi · 13-05-2020 03:56PM

John Campbell has mentioned vitamin D for a long time in his posts

is_that_so · 13-05-2020 03:57PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Vitamin D evidence mounting ...

12% is not remotely compelling, even 70% is still just a decent number. Increased vitamin D is a good thing anyway and should be encouraged but really not much evidence of its effect with COVID-19.

tobefrank321 · 13-05-2020 04:00PM

The vitamin D suggestions remind me of the once much touted but now virtually forgotten supposed link between the BCG vaccine and reduced covid 19 effects. That didn't work out so well for the UK by the way - probably the highest rate of death and infection in the world despite a fairly thorough BCG vaccination program going back decades.

Those who suffer most from covid 19 are those who are very sick and very unlikely to be out and about in the sunshine. They are I'd imagine confined to their beds or to their houses, as most old people are. They are certainly not out and about most of the day getting vitamin D.

Then you have Italy, Spain and France. Among the sunniest countries in the world, far more vitamin D there than we'll ever get. Not such good results either. And yet Northern European countries such as Norway, Finland and even Germany with minimal Vitamin D, relatively low deaths from covid 19.

So yeh, hard to see any cause and effect here. And difficult to prove a link too.

Healthy people have far more vitamin D. They are not healthy because of Vitamin D although it helps. They are healthy because they are out and about, out in the garden, getting exercise, going to the beach, shops, etc. Generally those predisposed to dying from covid 19 aren't doing this, especially the chronically obese and very old.

owlbethere · 13-05-2020 04:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Regarding the above post, cats gave tested positive for Corona virus in NY and Hong Kong.

So far we only know of a few cases of animals from around the world. It looks as if there might be more cases of animals but they are undetected or not notified.

One woman on the Facebook group and on that thread, posted a video of her dog sneezing.

13-05-2020 04:05PM

hmmm wrote: »

Agreed that some people don't care, but we don't need perfection to be the enemy of the good.

Even one person with a cough which turns out to be Covid and stays home will reduce the risk for everyone. Multiply that by as many people as possible trying to do the right thing and it will have a big impact.

It has to become socially unacceptable to go to work or school, or get on public transport, if you have a cough or a fever. Just unacceptable. In the past this might have meant a cold, but now it could mean spreading a dangerous virus.

Three things on this that I can see being an issue.

1. Plenty of people with jobs that don't give sick pay are going to go to work because they have to. Could say the same for some self employed.

2. Manager attitude, plenty have the "I don't care if your sick you have to come in" attitude often corresponding with the usual "We can always find someone else to replace you" "This will have an affect on your end of year performance review" statements.
I actually caught out a previous manager of mine with this by recording our phone conversation after I had surgery on my back and was signed off for two weeks. They are no longer working for the company.

3. The fu*k everyone else, I'll get mine type of mentality that some people have.

DevilsHaircut · 13-05-2020 04:05PM

'This study shows – counterintuitively – countries at lower latitude and typically sunny countries, such as Spain and northern Italy, had low concentrations of vitamin D and high rates of deficiency'

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1259955342663979008

tobefrank321 · 13-05-2020 04:07PM

owlbethere wrote: »

So far we only know of a few cases of animals from around the world. It looks as if there might be more cases of animals but they are undetected or not notified.

One woman on the Facebook group and on that thread, posted a video of her dog sneezing.

ok that's it, lock the country down. That's enough evidence.

hmmm · 13-05-2020 04:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no new strain in New York, UK and Montreal other than fear mongering. Kawasaki disease and similar post viral inflammatory conditions are known rare complications of viral infections in children. These are rare, but do occur and the rate of occurrence is within those you would normally expect to see, just they are associated with Covid-19, not influenza or any of the other myriad of viruses that children may get, and is giving an apparent spike given the numbers in New York, London etc recently

"Should kids go back to school?" is a great example of a difficult question which will become very easy when we look back at it in hindsight.

If we send kids back to school and they spread the disease, we'll have the "well it was obvious that..." crowd out in force.

If we don't send kids back, and we find out later they don't spread the virus we'll have the "why was Ireland so slow to...." crowd out in force instead.

You can't win - you can only make decisions based on the knowledge you have now, and doing your best to make risk-based decisions.

Miike · 13-05-2020 04:10PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The vitamin D suggestions remind me of the once much touted but now virtually forgotten supposed link between the BCG vaccine and reduced covid 19 effects. That didn't work out so well for the UK by the way - probably the highest rate of death and infection in the world despite a fairly thorough BCG vaccination program going back decades.

Those who suffer most from covid 19 are those who are very sick and very unlikely to be out and about in the sunshine. They are I'd imagine confined to their beds or to their houses, as most old people are. They are certainly not out and about most of the day getting vitamin D.

Then you have Italy, Spain and France. Among the sunniest countries in the world, far more vitamin D there than we'll ever get. Not such good results either. And yet Northern European countries such as Norway, Finland and even Germany with minimal Vitamin D, relatively low deaths from covid 19.

So yeh, hard to see any cause and effect here. And difficult to prove a link too.

Healthy people have far more vitamin D. They are not healthy because of Vitamin D although it helps. They are healthy because they are out and about, out in the garden, getting exercise, going to the beach, shops, etc. Generally those predisposed to dying from covid 19 aren't doing this, especially the chronically obese and very old.

Actually there is still quite a lot of interesting research related to BCG. It doesn't confer long term immunity but it boosts the innate immune system after you receive it, for a short period, which could translate into a better immune response from the likes of NK immune cells. That book isn't as closed as you've made it sound

wakka12 · 13-05-2020 04:12PM

Think everyone might be reading a bit too much into the Vitamin D factor.Spain and Italy (and most of the western world) have experienced a lot of deaths because their population is old, age is the number one risk factor, second to absolutely nothing. At least 1 in 5 westerners are over 65, theres about 100 million OAPs in the European Union, and 60 million in North America, many living in densely populated urban areas on the continent.Thats a lot of fuel for this fire. It doesnt really need much other explaination

owlbethere · 13-05-2020 04:18PM

hmmm wrote: »

"Should kids go back to school?" is a great example of a difficult question which will become very easy when we look back at it in hindsight.

If we send kids back to school and they spread the disease, we'll have the "well it was obvious that..." crowd out in force.

If we don't send kids back, and we find out later they don't spread the virus we'll have the "why was Ireland so slow to...." crowd out in force instead.

You can't win - you can only make decisions based on the knowledge you have now, and doing your best to make risk-based decisions.

What if we don't send them back and we find out that they can be spreaders, isn't it better to be cautious?

13-05-2020 04:21PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Think everyone might be reading a bit too much into the Vitamin D factor.Spain and Italy (and most of the western world) have experienced a lot of deaths because their population is old, age is the number one risk factor, second to absolutely nothing. It doesnt really need much other explaination

Plus older people only make about 25% vitamin D as younger people would it has been shown. Much like dark skinned people make less of it also.

New Home · 13-05-2020 04:26PM

Like this, but instead of desks, a sealed cubicle each.

(I know, the picture is tiny)

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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