Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

Hector Savage · 13-05-2020 11:40AM

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-05-13/spanish-health-ministry-considering-making-masks-obligatory-in-public.html

Spanish Health Ministry considering making masks obligatory in public
For now, the use of a face covering is only compulsory on public transport, but the central government is consulting with the regions on extending the rules

Utter nonsense, fair enough on public transport or in public buildings, but on the f*cking street ????

More mass hysteria, the irony is , as the health situation itself gets better, the restrictions are getting worse ...

Danzy · 13-05-2020 11:43AM

wakka12 wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/mexico-city-underreporting-covid-19-deaths-sky-news-analysis-finds-11987235
Government official in Mexico says national death toll is 5x times higher than reported, which would mean about 20,000 deaths
South America is really being devastated, I wonder if there an ethnic aspect, the death toll in South American countries seems staggering considering how incredibly young the average citizen is

Mexico has 128 million, the higher estimate of 20000 is not in anyway devastating or staggering.

It may suggest either natural protection from genetics or climate.

We know that there is a large genetic element to this.

Vitamin D levels also play an important role, the Nordic countries have very high levels due to supplements, much higher than Med countries, strangely enough.

We Irish have very low levels of Vitamin D .

normanoffside · 13-05-2020 11:44AM

It's because we are counting deaths where Covid19 is not necessarily the main cause of death.
Our deaths are counted where Covid19 was present or even just suspected to be present at the time of death even if it was not a major factor in death.

Compared to most other countries our death rate is inflated.

You will only be able to judge our death rate against other countries when overall excess mortality can be compared.

stephenjmcd · 13-05-2020 11:45AM

Latest HSE hospital report issued this morning.

As of 8pm last night there were 67 confirmed cases in ICU. 1 death in ICU in the previous 24 hours. Of the 67, 45 are ventilated. There are 20 suspected cases.

Likewise as of 8pm 487 confirmed cases in acute hospitals down from 512 at 8am yesterday morning.

There are as of 8pm 277 suspected cases in acute hospitals and this was 412 at 8am yesteday morning.

bekker · 13-05-2020 11:47AM

Miike wrote: »

Isn't this what everyone is using? What other options are there?

None allowable by GDPR, it's just an attempt to cover lack of proper joined-up test/track/trace system which is manpower intensive but effective if done within 48 hours.

Countries Rolling Out Coronavirus Tracking Apps Show Why They Can’t Work
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/12/coronavirus-tracking-tracing-apps-cant-work-south-korea-singapore-australia/?utm_source=PostUp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=21443&utm_term=Editors%20Picks%20OC&

Germany’s Angst Is Killing Its Coronavirus Tracing App
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/08...-pandemic-app/

is-that-so posted,
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2243137-bluetooth-may-not-work-well-enough-to-trace

addenum re voluntary takeup,
A typical NFC transceiver draws ~50mA of current when powered up. For reference this equates to around 25% of the total consumption of a typical smartphone with the screen powered on. Left unchecked this could have noticeable, adverse effect on battery life.

Miike · 13-05-2020 11:47AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Latest HSE hospital report issued this morning.

As of 8pm last night there were 67 confirmed cases in ICU. 1 death in ICU in the previous 24 hours. Of the 67, 45 are ventilated. There are 20 suspected cases.

Likewise as of 8pm 487 confirmed cases in acute hospitals down from 512 at 8am yesterday morning.

There are as of 8pm 277 suspected cases in acute hospitals and this was 412 at 8am yesteday morning.

This really is wonderful news, at a population level. I hope this trend keeps up

facehugger99 · 13-05-2020 11:49AM

1) We allowed it to run rampant in nursing homes.

2)We are fluffing up our fatality figures by counting end-of-life patients in the stats where Covid was a contributing factor. The median age of death from Covid is higher than our life expectancy figure.

Stheno · 13-05-2020 11:49AM

Danzy wrote: »

Mexico has 128 million, the higher estimate of 20000 is not in anyway devastating or staggering.

It may suggest either natural protection from genetics or climate.

We know that there is a large genetic element to this.

Vitamin D levels also play an important role, the Nordic countries have very high levels due to supplements, much higher than Med countries, strangely enough.

We Irish have very low levels of Vitamin D .

Obesity maybe too?

speckle · 13-05-2020 11:53AM

mandrake04 wrote: »

This could end up blowing up in their face, any of the handful of people on here that actually knows how PCR tests works would agree that although the test is 95-98% accurate there are a few drawbacks.

a) The sampling has to be successful, poorly collected sample or testing outside the test window is a problem. It’s possible to be infected but if you test too soon not enough of the virus present in the part of the body being collected. ie from a oropharyngeal or nasopharyngeal swab.

You could in theory get infected on your trip to the airport, walking through the airport or on the inbound flight and chances are it won’t show in a test for maybe 24-48 hrs. By the time you arrive at your destination you now have a false sense of security that you are clear but probably running around spreading it.

b) Depending on the brand and processing of the tests, most false negatives in molecular tests aside from poor sampling in in Pre-analytical handling. Those tests that require a fair bit of human handling are very susceptible to human error. You make 1 mistake and cause an serious outbreak and people die.

Although testing at the airport either inbound or outbound sounds good it’s the airport that is offering this, it’s all rather self-serving. It’s not in the airports interests not to have flights or no one travelling .....offering testing is one thing but establishing trust especially from other countries is totally different kettle of fish.

You have a country that spent Billions and weeks on lockdown to try and contain the virus and then on the basis of an airport test that ‘maybe’ wrong have some spreader arrive to commence another outbreak.

I think most countries will be playing the watch and see what happens elsewhere approach for a long time before they entertain this, the nature of the virus and how it spreads is not very competitive with international travel.

Agree. First time to do this.... yes ...yes... and yes.
Thanks x many times.

wakka12 · 13-05-2020 11:54AM

Danzy wrote: »

Mexico has 128 million, the higher estimate of 20000 is not in anyway devastating or staggering.

It may suggest either natural protection from genetics or climate.

We know that there is a large genetic element to this.

Vitamin D levels also play an important role, the Nordic countries have very high levels due to supplements, much higher than Med countries, strangely enough.

We Irish have very low levels of Vitamin D .

Did you even look at the article?Do you think its a normal situation in May for Mexico to have so many bodies in morgues and crematoriums that they cant even refridgerate them? Mexico had almost no deaths before April. So 20,000 deaths in 6 weeks is indeed extremely significant. But anyway Danzy in Ireland says the situation in Mexico isnt bad so well that will be reassuring for the Mexican people, especially considering the average Mexican is 28 years old, it is absolutely staggering

owlbethere · 13-05-2020 11:54AM

ednwireland wrote: »

the only thing i hope is that it makes people stay at home with a cold/flu more as its expected in our company for you to drag yourself in whatever. problem is being infectious before symptoms.

as to working from home really not all its cracked up to be but our office isnt big enough for everyone to be in and social distance so we will be working from home mostly.

It's never going to happen - people staying at home with a cold/flu.

It can be somewhat controlled within working environments but on a societal level it's never going to work. Peoples greed and selfishness will come first and foremost. Take for example a social welfare pension payment collected at a post office. If someone feels unwell, they will get up and get the payment anyways. I know there are ways around that with payments into bank accounts but some older people don't have bank accounts and they might mot have anyone to help them pick up a payment like bachelors living alone.

Then when the pubs open, peoples want for alcohol will come first. They won't care if they are coughing about the place so long as they get their pints.

Have a look at the amount of people who have treated this lock down as an extended bank holiday - meeting on beeches and continuing with house parties. Some people don't care about other people. Just themselves.

Danzy · 13-05-2020 11:56AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

This is an unnecessary dog whistling thread

Not to be backseat Modding but have you a constructive alternative to show how the O.P. can indulge in self pity or poor us thinking? If not this way.

No, didn't think so.

givyjoe · 13-05-2020 11:59AM

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-05-13/spanish-health-ministry-considering-making-masks-obligatory-in-public.html

Utter nonsense, fair enough on public transport or in public buildings, but on the f*cking street ????

More mass hysteria, the irony is , as the health situation itself gets better, the restrictions are getting worse ...

Genuinely curious how on earth you have come to this conclusion, even more curious how this is mass hysteria. Since when is advice based on science mass hysteria?

Before you spout yet more nonsense in reply, you might have a look at this article and video on how the particles spread when out walking jogging. Masks help prevent these 'plumes' of particles being spread. There's loads of similar videos out there, this is literally just the one first I've found.

People still using the word hysteria to dismiss the **** show happening around us is infuriating.

Danzy · 13-05-2020 12:06PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Did you even look at the article?Do you think its a normal situation in May for Mexico to have so many bodies in morgues and crematoriums that they cant even refridgerate them? Mexico had almost no deaths before April. So 20,000 deaths in 6 weeks is indeed extremely significant. But anyway Danzy in Ireland says the situation in Mexico isnt bad so well that will be reassuring for the Mexican people

No it's not normal, pandemics are not normal, heaped up dead is not normal.

Mexico had their first cases in February.

If they have kept it to 20k dead, that is an achievement and a success to date.

Mexico had deaths before April, it just didn't test the corpses.

If they can keep the death total below 128k then they will rightly be praised as an example world wide. Given there is no social distancing happening there and the lax Gov't oversight, it may be environmental or genetic protection and will be worth studying why.

quokula · 13-05-2020 12:13PM

Danzy wrote: »

No it's not normal, pandemics are not normal, heaped up dead is not normal.

Mexico had their first cases in February.

If they have kept it to 20k dead, that is an achievement and a success to date.

Mexico had deaths before April, it just didn't test the corpses.

If they can keep the death total below 128k then they will rightly be praised as an example world wide. Given there is no social distancing happening there and the lax Gov't oversight, it may be environmental or genetic protection and will be worth studying why.

... it they have a death toll 50% higher than the current highest death toll anywhere in the world they will be praised as an example?

Hector Savage · 13-05-2020 12:16PM

givyjoe wrote: »

Genuinely curious how on earth you have come to this conclusion, even more curious how this is mass hysteria. Since when is advice based on science mass hysteria?

Before you spout yet more nonsense in reply, you might have a look at this article and video on how the particles spread when out walking jogging. Masks help prevent these 'plumes' of particles being spread. There's loads of similar videos out there, this is literally just the one first I've found.

People still using the word hysteria to dismiss the **** show happening around us is infuriating.

People aren't picking this up on the street keeping reasonable distance from others.

If we get scared of that , we may as well never leave our homes again.

Danzy · 13-05-2020 12:20PM

quokula wrote: »

... it they have a death toll 50% higher than the current highest death toll anywhere in the world they will be praised as an example?

In a country that crowded, where people live cheek by jowl, are very hands on with each other, relaxed about hand washing, shared food utensils are very common, intergenerational households etc etc then yes it would be a good outcome.

It is a lot of dead but Mexico could breath a sigh of relief.
Death tolls elsewhere are not comparable. As long as its death toll doesn't soar in to several hundred thousands, which would still make it milder there than New York.

Italy was not so fortunate, why that is is an important issue
Every country has it's own circumstances.

quokula · 13-05-2020 12:27PM

Danzy wrote: »

In a country that crowded, where people live cheek by jowl, are very hands on with each other, relaxed about hand washing, shared food utensils are very common, intergenerational households etc etc then yes it would be a good outcome.

It is a lot of dead but Mexico could breath a sigh of relief.
Death tolls elsewhere are not comparable.

Italy was not so fortunate, why that is is an important issue
Every country has it's own circumstances.

Mexico has a lower overall population density than Ireland. I've travelled through parts of Mexico and many people live in smaller isolated towns. It's more than just Mexico city. Many many countries have the same issues you describe so I find it utterly bizarre that you'd try to paint a catastrophic death rate as some kind of success based on some strange view of their demographics being utterly unique.

kilkenny31 · 13-05-2020 12:29PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-05-13/spanish-health-ministry-considering-making-masks-obligatory-in-public.html

Utter nonsense, fair enough on public transport or in public buildings, but on the f*cking street ????

More mass hysteria, the irony is , as the health situation itself gets better, the restrictions are getting worse ...

Restrictions aren't getting worse its just as restrictions are lifted governments are trying to ensure that any personal things people can do to prevent the spread of the virus is being done. That makes sense, you don't need those recommendations during a lockdown as there is not many people out and about. As that increases measures should be put in place to limit the spread. Masks is one of those measures that does something to prevent the spread.

gabeeg · 13-05-2020 12:31PM

NDWC wrote: »

You can't compare deaths between countries.

This has been established at least a million times on the main threads.

True, this was established.

It's not the case anymore though - the FT have been using official overall death stats and making valid comparisons.

wakka12 · 13-05-2020 12:33PM

Danzy wrote: »

In a country that crowded, where people live cheek by jowl, are very hands on with each other, relaxed about hand washing, shared food utensils are very common, intergenerational households etc etc then yes it would be a good outcome.

It is a lot of dead but Mexico could breath a sigh of relief.
Death tolls elsewhere are not comparable. As long as its death toll doesn't soar in to several hundred thousands, which would still make it milder there than New York.

Italy was not so fortunate, why that is is an important issue
Every country has it's own circumstances.

Fair enough, from what was said in the Skynews article Mexico looks in an even worse situation than Italy imo. In a study of just 30 crematoria in mexico city alone, there was 600 bodies burnt in one day, it does not include the figures from normal burial or other creamtoria and Mexico city which is just 8% of Mexico's population. That same day Mexican government announced just 112 covid deaths for the whole country

An Ciarraioch · 13-05-2020 12:34PM

CSO with air and sea travel statistics for Jan-March - in February, Italian visitors were virtually identical to last year, at 43,800, but this had predictably fallen to 5k by the following month. France went from 64,000 to 32,000 and Spain from 110k to 67k. As for Britain, more than 532,000 visited in February, and even in March, 270k arrived.

As for Irish going abroad, the number of us travelling to Britain was virtually identical to the traffic going the other way in both months, similarly trips to Italy went from 40k to 5k, France from 63,000 to 34,000, and Spain from 113,000 to 50,000.

All of which suggests Italy was the most probable, but not definite source of entry into this country:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ast/airandseatravelstatisticsmarch2020/

Danzy · 13-05-2020 12:37PM

quokula wrote: »

Mexico has a lower overall population density than Ireland. I've travelled through parts of Mexico and many people live in smaller isolated towns. It's more than just Mexico city. Many many countries have the same issues you describe so I find it utterly bizarre that you'd try to paint a catastrophic death rate as some kind of success based on some strange view of their demographics being utterly unique.

I never said their demographics were utterly unique or even unique.

Lots of people have traveled a few months in Mexico, not just us.

20k dead is not catastrophic, its rough and very sad but it suggests a mortality rate there that is much smaller than New York which if Mexico had a similar rate would have it's dead approaching 200k by now and that's in a modern, highly sophisticated city.

40k dead would be comparable to here by now. You have been there, there are large stretches of Mexico closer to 1920s Ireland than now.

There may be some geographical or genetic protection in that country.

I think our approach was correct.

wakka12 · 13-05-2020 12:40PM

Danzy wrote: »

I never said their demographics were utterly unique or even unique.

Lots of people have traveled a few months in Mexico, not just us.

20k dead is not catastrophic, its rough and very sad but it suggests a mortality rate there that is much smaller than New York which if Mexico had a similar rate would have it's dead approaching 200k by now and that's in a modern, highly sophisticated city.

40k dead would be comparable to here by now. You have been there, there are large stretches of Mexico closer to 1920s Ireland than now.

There may be some geographical or genetic protection in that country.

I think our approach was correct.

New York is far beyond a peak , Mexico is not even at a peak. Unfortunately I dont think it will turn out as a good example of pandemic management

Danzy · 13-05-2020 12:44PM

wakka12 wrote: »

New York is far beyond a peak , Mexico is not even at a peak. Unfortunately I dont think it will turn out as a good example of pandemic management

Pandemic management was wrongly used by me, it's nature not nurture, the Gov't there are not coordinating a master plan, the people don't seem to be acting on any committed social distancing.

Genetics or environmental factors.

owlbethere · 13-05-2020 12:54PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

CSO with air and sea travel statistics for Jan-March - in February, Italian visitors were virtually identical to last year, at 43,800, but this had predictably fallen to 5k by the following month. France went from 64,000 to 32,000 and Spain from 110k to 67k. As for Britain, more than 532,000 visited in February, and even in March, 270k arrived.

As for Irish going abroad, the number of us travelling to Britain was virtually identical to the traffic going the other way in both months, similarly trips to Italy went from 40k to 5k, France from 63,000 to 34,000, and Spain from 113,000 to 50,000.

All of which suggests Italy was the most probable, but not definite source of entry into this country:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ast/airandseatravelstatisticsmarch2020/

It's absolutely scandalous how our government never implemented quarantine measures at the airports and allowed visitors to come in. It will turn out to be the most biggest, fcuking monumental fcuk up in the history of our state. The population was put under restrictions from the middle of March while more potential covid19 cases came in and allowed to go about our communities.

hmmm · 13-05-2020 12:54PM

owlbethere wrote: »

It's never going to happen - people staying at home with a cold/flu.

Agreed that some people don't care, but we don't need perfection to be the enemy of the good.

Even one person with a cough which turns out to be Covid and stays home will reduce the risk for everyone. Multiply that by as many people as possible trying to do the right thing and it will have a big impact.

It has to become socially unacceptable to go to work or school, or get on public transport, if you have a cough or a fever. Just unacceptable. In the past this might have meant a cold, but now it could mean spreading a dangerous virus.

is_that_so · 13-05-2020 01:02PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Nursing Homes, complete shambles made in protecting them.

It it the word of the moment! Insert any country in the world and that comment could hold true. Really less of a shambles than some care homes just not being up to scratch for this in the first place. 35% of all such homes I believe were unaffected by this. A shambles would have had it in almost all of them.

is_that_so · 13-05-2020 01:06PM

hmmm wrote: »

Agreed that some people don't care, but we don't need perfection to be the enemy of the good.

Even one person with a cough which turns out to be Covid and stays home will reduce the risk for everyone. Multiply that by as many people as possible trying to do the right thing and it will have a big impact.

It has to become socially unacceptable to go to work or school, or get on public transport, if you have a cough or a fever. Just unacceptable. In the past this might have meant a cold, but now it could mean spreading a dangerous virus.

The knock-on effect of this is how it might affect absenteeism levels. A cold is really not being sick and being in thrall to the possibility of a disease appearing is no way to live our lives long-term.

caveat emptor · 13-05-2020 01:09PM

The cheek of O'Leary knows no bounds.
When asked on sky news if he'll be selling the middle seat
he said that it is very important families need to sit together. No mention of the fact they use an algorithm to split families. Pr!ck
Plan sounds very good. He should probably start by actually cleaning the plane before the next person gets on it. I never fancied 3 hours of snot on my tray while I order a panini, beer and scratch card.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airline-flights-pay-extra-to-sit-together-split-up-family-algorithm-minister-a8640771.html

Speaking to a parliamentary communications committee,
Digital Minister Margot James described the software as “a very cynical, exploitative means… to hoodwink the general public”.
She added: “Some airlines have set an algorithm to identify passengers of the same surname travelling together.
“They’ve had the temerity to split the passengers up, and when the family want to travel together they are charged more.”

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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