Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

Kermit.de.frog · 13-05-2020 01:55AM

Mexico reports 353 new deaths, which is a new high. Previous high 257 on May 8th.

s1ippy · 13-05-2020 01:59AM

bekker wrote: »

Countries Rolling Out Coronavirus Tracking Apps Show Why They Can’t Work
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/12/coronavirus-tracking-tracing-apps-cant-work-south-korea-singapore-australia/?utm_source=PostUp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=21443&utm_term=Editors%20Picks%20OC&

Summation,
'The only way to make coronavirus tracking apps really work is to accept the burden of false alarms and track every person, all the time, everywhere. This is only possible in a totalitarian state such as China, yet even the Chinese government doesn’t have the resources to implement such extreme levels of monitoring.'

Perhaps some enterprising journalist or evan a politician at next week COVID-19 Committee hearings will press the much venerated TH as to why the HSE are wasting resources on such a futile endeavour.

This one is not directly related but interesting in the big data dilemmas it raises.
Germany’s Angst Is Killing Its Coronavirus Tracing App
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/08/germany-coronavirus-contract-tracing-pandemic-app/

I love your new name for "Mr Tony" as fake journalist Gemima Burke dubbed him.

tobefrank321 · 13-05-2020 02:04AM

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Covid-19 is showing that Singapore has much the same situation as wealthy middle eastern countries when it comes to migrant workers.
They are packed into overcrowded dorms. They don't earn enough to even dream of shopping or eating out in the same locations as the general population.

Not unlike our direct provision centres. Its little to worry about if they remain in the centre until recovered. That would mean holding them there though.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater · 13-05-2020 02:07AM

No new cases in New Zealand for the second day in a row.

tobefrank321 · 13-05-2020 02:10AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

884 new cases today in Singapore. From model to basket case in the blink of an eye.

This is the reality of the lockdown-ease restrictions-reimpose lockdown approach. It becomes pointless to an extent after a couple of waves. Every country will see something similar. These migrants will be young and not overweight. Deaths and hospitalisations will likely be few. If they can target the lockdowns to keeping people in the dorms they should contain it. A generalised lockdown won't achieve much especially as once its lifted its back to square one.

Kermit.de.frog · 13-05-2020 02:20AM

Brazil reports 881 new deaths.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/may/13/coronavirus-live-news-brazil-reports-record-881-deaths-as-wuhan-prepares-to-test-11m-residents

Brazil reported a record 881 Covid-19 deaths in 24 hours on Tuesday, its health ministry said, taking its total to 12,400 and making it the world’s sixth worst-affected country in terms of deaths, according to John Hopkins University figures. Its total of 177,589 confirmed cases is the world’s seventh-highest.

Earlier far-right president Jair Bolsonaro – who has attacked social isolation measures introduced by state governors – issued a decree declaring beauty salons, gyms and barbers “essential services” that could open. Several governors said they would ignore the decree.

The_Brood · 13-05-2020 02:27AM

Question: why was a government that was voted out of power allowed to make decisions over the virus that will negatively affect the country for decades to come, while they dont have to answer for anything?

I know the answer is because there wasnt time to form a new government, but surely the situation has to be the craziest in the world. A goverment voted out of power decides the country's fate for decades to come....and 4 million people just allowed this to transpire.

uncleoswald · 13-05-2020 02:29AM

The_Brood wrote: »

Question: why was a government that was voted out of power allowed to make decisions over the virus that will negatively affect the country for decades to come, while they dont have to answer for anything?

I know the answer is because there wasnt time to form a new government, but surely the situation has to be the craziest in the world. A goverment voted out of power decides the country's fate for decades to come....and 4 million people just allowed this to transpire.

What do you suggest?

shaveAbullock · 13-05-2020 02:30AM

The_Brood wrote: »

Question: why was a government that was voted out of power allowed to make decisions over the virus that will negatively affect the country for decades to come, while they dont have to answer for anything?

I know the answer is because there wasnt time to form a new government, but surely the situation has to be the craziest in the world. A goverment voted out of power decides the country's fate for decades to come....and 4 million people just allowed this to transpire.

There was time to form one if FF,SF or FG deemed it important enough

So would FF or SF have done a better job since it would seem they didn't want the job?

patnor1011 · 13-05-2020 02:34AM

uncleoswald wrote: »

Why is it always those who always scream loudest about questioning everything, not trusting the MSM, and everyone else being 'sheeple', are always the first to believe random stuff they see on the internet?

Why are so many people so quick to believe that these anti-malaria drugs are so magical just because a handful of doctors claimed to have had suspiciously positive results from them? Why put so much faith in them when there is so much mistrust in what the vast majority of medical professionals say?

I am curious what would you go for first?
A 1 euro antimalaria pill or 100 euro anti HIV pill?
There is so many angles to consider that result is pretty blurry. If you are patient who has to pay it out of his pocket choice is simple. If someone else will pay for treatment opposite will happen. And throw in MSM and drug manufacturers in the mix and you will see what gets promoted the most.
And it is not about "vast majority" but about who gets to be the loudest.

Kermit.de.frog · 13-05-2020 02:42AM

South Korean officials appealing for gay people to come forward saying their info will be deleted. Homophobia has been rising in the country due to the new cases. Authorities are trying to trace over 11,000 people so far due to the outbreak.

https://twitter.com/BBCLBicker/status/1260380520766029824

fritzelly · 13-05-2020 02:45AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

I am curious what would you go for first?
A 1 euro antimalaria pill or 100 euro anti HIV pill?
There is so many angles to consider that result is pretty blurry. If you are patient who has to pay it out of his pocket choice is simple. If someone else will pay for treatment opposite will happen. And throw in MSM and drug manufacturers in the mix and you will see what gets promoted the most.
And it is not about "vast majority" but about who gets to be the loudest.

We're not America (and those drugs cost a lot more than that) - plus there are too many companies working on this, many of whom will find the vaccine, it will be a race to the bottom for the best price.
In fact haven't many companies already said they will sell it at cost price - it's not like years of research are going in to it

uncleoswald · 13-05-2020 02:47AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

I am curious what would you go for first?
A 1 euro antimalaria pill or 100 euro anti HIV pill?

Whichever was advised medically?

There is so many angles to consider that result is pretty blurry. If you are patient who has to pay it out of his pocket choice is simple. If someone else will pay for treatment opposite will happen. And throw in MSM and drug manufacturers in the mix and you will see what gets promoted the most.

Big Pharma are not the only ones out to make money, snake oil salesmen have always existed and they are making a resurgence thanks to the internet.

And it is not about "vast majority" but about who gets to be the loudest.

Indeed but you seem to have that completely the wrong way around. The silent majority are quietly working on solutions while the exploitative few are shouting about how they have the cure.

patnor1011 · 13-05-2020 05:11AM

uncleoswald wrote: »

Whichever was advised medically?

Both.

uncleoswald wrote: »

Big Pharma are not the only ones out to make money, snake oil salesmen have always existed and they are making a resurgence thanks to the internet.

Stating that doctors promoting well researched and for over 60 years established drug are snake oil salesman is funny.

uncleoswald wrote: »

Indeed but you seem to have that completely the wrong way around. The silent majority are quietly working on solutions while the exploitative few are shouting about how they have the cure.

Can you please explain what is exploitative trying to use pill which cost about 30 cents?

And while nobody has a cure and there is possibility that cure may not be found, both mentioned drugs showed promise in reducing severity and shortening recovery. Same as is the case with high doses of vitamin C or oxygen therapy.

shaveAbullock · 13-05-2020 05:29AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

Both.

Stating that doctors promoting well researched and for over 60 years established drug are snake oil salesman is funny.

Can you please explain what is exploitative trying to use pill which cost about 30 cents?

And while nobody has a cure and there is possibility that cure may not be found, both mentioned drugs showed promise in reducing severity and shortening recovery. Same as is the case with high doses of vitamin C or oxygen therapy.

I'm out of the loop, have clinical trials of these anti viral drugs been concluded already and found both to be equally effective?

patnor1011 · 13-05-2020 06:25AM

shaveAbullock wrote: »

I'm out of the loop, have clinical trials of these anti viral drugs been concluded already and found both to be equally effective?

Any and every treatment currently used for wuhan virus of which there is quite a few are only helping in reducing severity and shortening recovery.

Gael23 · 13-05-2020 06:28AM

How is social distancing likely to change in the coming months?

GazzaL · 13-05-2020 06:38AM

bekker wrote: »

Countries Rolling Out Coronavirus Tracking Apps Show Why They Can’t Work
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/12/coronavirus-tracking-tracing-apps-cant-work-south-korea-singapore-australia/?utm_source=PostUp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=21443&utm_term=Editors%20Picks%20OC&

Summation,
'The only way to make coronavirus tracking apps really work is to accept the burden of false alarms and track every person, all the time, everywhere. This is only possible in a totalitarian state such as China, yet even the Chinese government doesn’t have the resources to implement such extreme levels of monitoring.'

Perhaps some enterprising journalist or evan a politician at next week COVID-19 Committee hearings will press the much venerated TH as to why the HSE are wasting resources on such a futile endeavour.

This one is not directly related but interesting in the big data dilemmas it raises.
Germany’s Angst Is Killing Its Coronavirus Tracing App
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/08/germany-coronavirus-contract-tracing-pandemic-app/

They "STAY AT HOME!!!" brigade won't like reading that because they jumped on anyone who dared criticise the prospect of a HSE app. We are a world leader in data protection, we don't need a(nother) HSE scandal to damage that.

The HSE are blaming the likes of telephones (invented in 1876) and computers for their failure to hit testing targets. What hope do they have of developing an app that not only works but is adopted and trusted?

uncleoswald · 13-05-2020 06:41AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

Both.

If it, or any other drug, is prescribed to fight some of the symptoms of covid-19 then of course take it. But there is no evidence it is the magical cure being pushed by some, and it has been tested and tested.

Stating that doctors promoting well researched and for over 60 years established drug are snake oil salesman is funny.

Established as a cure for malaria, for anything else it is a snake oil until proved otherwise.

Can you please explain what is exploitative trying to use pill which cost about 30 cents?

It's never just about the drug. There is always an agenda to sell, whether it is a book, anti-vax propaganda or a political viewpoint.

893bet · 13-05-2020 07:04AM

The_Brood wrote: »

Question: why was a government that was voted out of power allowed to make decisions over the virus that will negatively affect the country for decades to come, while they dont have to answer for anything?

I know the answer is because there wasnt time to form a new government, but surely the situation has to be the craziest in the world. A goverment voted out of power decides the country's fate for decades to come....and 4 million people just allowed this to transpire.

Why do people keep banging this drum. No party was voted into power as a majority.

Even the mighty Sinn Fein, 75 percent of the population did not want them.

FG have done ok in an unprecedented fast evolving situation.

mandrake04 · 13-05-2020 08:15AM

coastwatch wrote: »

Limited capacity, you have a book in advance.
It's intended to facilitate essential travel.
Testing is available for departures too which is probably a better idea, so you could bring your negative results cert to show at the destination country (if they accept it). Maybe this is what the future of long haul international air travel looks like for a few years.

Interesting that they can even setup a small testing and analysis lab at an airport, that can turn around results in 3 hours.

You know much more about the testing equipment and process, but if this virus is going to be around for a long time, maybe we should be looking at having smaller local testing labs, same day appointment and results.

This could end up blowing up in their face, any of the handful of people on here that actually knows how PCR tests works would agree that although the test is 95-98% accurate there are a few drawbacks.

a) The sampling has to be successful, poorly collected sample or testing outside the test window is a problem. It’s possible to be infected but if you test too soon not enough of the virus present in the part of the body being collected. ie from a oropharyngeal or nasopharyngeal swab.

You could in theory get infected on your trip to the airport, walking through the airport or on the inbound flight and chances are it won’t show in a test for maybe 24-48 hrs. By the time you arrive at your destination you now have a false sense of security that you are clear but probably running around spreading it.

b) Depending on the brand and processing of the tests, most false negatives in molecular tests aside from poor sampling in in Pre-analytical handling. Those tests that require a fair bit of human handling are very susceptible to human error. You make 1 mistake and cause an serious outbreak and people die.

Although testing at the airport either inbound or outbound sounds good it’s the airport that is offering this, it’s all rather self-serving. It’s not in the airports interests not to have flights or no one travelling .....offering testing is one thing but establishing trust especially from other countries is totally different kettle of fish.

You have a country that spent Billions and weeks on lockdown to try and contain the virus and then on the basis of an airport test that ‘maybe’ wrong have some spreader arrive to commence another outbreak.

I think most countries will be playing the watch and see what happens elsewhere approach for a long time before they entertain this, the nature of the virus and how it spreads is not very competitive with international travel.

Speakerboxx · 13-05-2020 08:17AM

893bet wrote: »

FG have done ok in an unprecedented fast evolving situation.

They have and they haven't. They made quiet a few fcuk ups too along the way with this situation.

ek motor · 13-05-2020 08:28AM

Gael23 wrote: »

How is social distancing likely to change in the coming months?

Not a lot. If and when more shops and restaurants re-open they will only have limited numbers permitted to enter at once. Public transport capacity will be much reduced. More widespread wearing of face masks. Keeping two meters distance will gradually become an ingrained habit for most people.

froog · 13-05-2020 08:35AM

The_Brood wrote: »

Question: why was a government that was voted out of power allowed to make decisions over the virus that will negatively affect the country for decades to come, while they dont have to answer for anything?

I know the answer is because there wasnt time to form a new government, but surely the situation has to be the craziest in the world. A goverment voted out of power decides the country's fate for decades to come....and 4 million people just allowed this to transpire.

What would you have suggested? Just give to SF without a proper majority? Thats not how it works.

is_that_so · 13-05-2020 08:42AM

shaveAbullock wrote: »

I'm out of the loop, have clinical trials of these anti viral drugs been concluded already and found both to be equally effective?

No trial has concluded yet. The WHO big solidarity trial is ongoing and they say they'll be focusing on the 4-5 most promising. End of May into June is where some data would be expected from vaccine trials as well.

13-05-2020 08:46AM

The_Brood wrote: »

Question: why was a government that was voted out of power allowed to make decisions over the virus that will negatively affect the country for decades to come, while they dont have to answer for anything?

I know the answer is because there wasnt time to form a new government, but surely the situation has to be the craziest in the world. A goverment voted out of power decides the country's fate for decades to come....and 4 million people just allowed this to transpire.

Article 28.11.2 of the Irish Constitution: “The members of the Government in office at the date of a dissolution of Dáil Éireann shall continue to hold office until their successors shall have been appointed.”

hmmm · 13-05-2020 08:48AM

uncleoswald wrote: »

Why is it always those who always scream loudest about questioning everything, not trusting the MSM, and everyone else being 'sheeple', are always the first to believe random stuff they see on the internet?

Why are so many people so quick to believe that these anti-malaria drugs are so magical just because a handful of doctors claimed to have had suspiciously positive results from them? Why put so much faith in them when there is so much mistrust in what the vast majority of medical professionals say?

The same sort of people who won't get vaccinated are also the ones pushing an anti-malarial drug with some severe side-effects as a "cure".

It seems to be a desperate need for attention and to appear smarter than everyone else.

is_that_so · 13-05-2020 08:48AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Article 28.11.2 of the Irish Constitution: “The members of the Government in office at the date of a dissolution of Dáil Éireann shall continue to hold office until their successors shall have been appointed.”

Yeah, this has been posted multiple times in multiple places yet people still persist with the dodgy government hogwash.

hmmm · 13-05-2020 08:50AM

The_Brood wrote: »

Question: why was a government that was voted out of power allowed to make decisions over the virus that will negatively affect the country for decades to come, while they dont have to answer for anything?

There's nothing in the Constitution stopping the other parties from getting together and forming a government.

Because they seem to be incapable of even talking to each other, and keep slagging each other off in public, the current government continues on or we'd have no-one in charge. I wouldn't want anti-vaxxers and anti-5g types in government at the moment - that sort of stuff was face-palming a few years ago, now it's dangerous.

is_that_so · 13-05-2020 08:52AM

ek motor wrote: »

Not a lot. If and when more shops and restaurants re-open they will only have limited numbers permitted to enter at once. Public transport capacity will be much reduced. More widespread wearing of face masks. Keeping two meters distance will gradually become an ingrained habit for most people.

I think suggested face coverings will be short term, especially when we finally get to an extended period of no new cases. The Czechs, for example, are relaxing some of their rules on 25 May. The extended 2 meter thing is likely to have a lot of long term psychological consequences.

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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