How will schools be able to go back in September?

Lillyfae · 12-05-2020 12:12PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

To clarify, you have been pontificating about teachers in a country that you do not live in. Therefore anything you have posted has, at best, been anecdotal.
Perhaps you should concern yourself with issues that are currently impacting directly on you. I know my priorities are local. I may observe decisions being made elsewhere to see what lessons can be learnt but I tend to take “stories” emanating from elsewhere with a large pinch of salt.

Everything here is anecdotal. From teachers and parents alike. There are half on one side of the debate and half on the other. I am Irish and have plenty of family and friends there, so I'll do what everyone else here is doing, discussing my opinion with other people. And for what it's worth, the "go back to your own country" is a very weak argument, along the lines of attack is the best form of defence.

Lillyfae · 12-05-2020 12:16PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Hang on - why should teachers going back.be a priority if it's not safe for the kids to go back? You've already said it's unfair to fire sometime if you haven't provided them the resources to do the job.

The numbers are the issue. The school space would be too small for all the kids to go back at once, however there are plenty struggling to work from home. They should be given the option to use the classroom space if they need to. There is no risk at one teacher being on their own in their classroom. A teacher and 30 children is entirely a different matter.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 12-05-2020 12:21PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

The numbers are the issue. The school space would be too small for all the kids to go back at once, however there are plenty struggling to work from home. They should be given the option to use the classroom space if they need to. There is no risk at one teacher being on their own in their classroom. A teacher and 30 children is entirely a different matter.

A teacher in a classroom may resolve their issues related to broadband or whatever but the students may continue to have issues, especially in rural areas. Solving one problem won't fix another.

I would expect students will return to school on a staggered basis. One year group spread across a school for a day a week and online learning for the other days of the week etc. Rotate for each year group. The problem them is if the teacher is entertaining small student groupings each day, where does the time come from to prepare all the material needed for the "blended Learning"?

Plenty details that will need to be sorted out

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 12-05-2020 12:22PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

The numbers are the issue. The school space would be too small for all the kids to go back at once, however there are plenty struggling to work from home. They should be given the option to use the classroom space if they need to. There is no risk at one teacher being on their own in their classroom. A teacher and 30 children is entirely a different matter.

Ok, so you mean making the classroom available, rather than the teacher going back for the sake of it.

Damian F · 12-05-2020 12:22PM

With schools around Europe reopening, it simply won't be tenable to keep Irish schools closed on September 1

Lillyfae · 12-05-2020 12:30PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

A teacher in a classroom may resolve their issues related to broadband or whatever but the students may continue to have issues, especially in rural areas. Solving one problem won't fix another.

I would expect students will return to school on a staggered basis. One year group spread across a school for a day a week and online learning for the other days of the week etc. Rotate for each year group. The problem them is if the teacher is entertaining small student groupings each day, where does the time come from to prepare all the material needed for the "blended Learning"?

Plenty details that will need to be sorted out

The thing is it shouldn't be so difficult. Everyone is following the same curriculum, resources related to lesson planning and strategies can be shared. Everyone should be working towards the same goal but instead it's BoM vs DoE vs Teachers vs Principals vs Parents vs however many unions there are.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Ok, so you mean making the classroom available, rather than the teacher going back for the sake of it.

Exactly. Of course!

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 12-05-2020 02:29PM

Damian F wrote: »

With schools around Europe reopening, it simply won't be tenable to keep Irish schools closed on September 1

Exactly, and when you take into account that kids will be mixing in a few days there will be no excuse to keep them closed.

It's not possible to restart the economy if schools and childcare aren't available to working parents.

The longer they remain closed the harder it will be for kids to adapt back into formal education and no doubt there will be a few secondary students who were on shaky ground before and will not return at all.

Another option would be to pay a home school grant to parents (so that they can remain off work to educate children) but not sure where that would leave teachers in regards to pay and job security obviously if a grant is being paid for the education elsewhere then it would have to come from education budget.

Constitutionally education either happens in schools etc or at home so if it's not possible to happen at schools then proper arrangements need to be put in place for a nationwide homeschooling programme.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 12-05-2020 02:33PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Exactly. Of course!

In fairness, you didn't phrase it well! You mean making sure teachers have the resources to teach remotely is the priority, at which case it doesn't matter if where they are.

I'd also prioritise making sure the kids have the resources over opening classrooms for teachers only, because if the schools can't reopen kids who don't have adequate online access are the ones who will suffer.

iamwhoiam · 12-05-2020 02:40PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Exactly, and when you take into account that kids will be mixing in a few days there will be no excuse to keep them closed.

It's not possible to restart the economy if schools and childcare aren't available to working parents.

The longer they remain closed the harder it will be for kids to adapt back into formal education and no doubt there will be a few secondary students who were on shaky ground before and will not return at all.

Another option would be to pay a home school grant to parents (so that they can remain off work to educate children) but not sure where that would leave teachers in regards to pay and job security obviously if a grant is being paid for the education elsewhere then it would have to come from education budget.

Constitutionally education either happens in schools etc or at home so if it's not possible to happen at schools then proper arrangements need to be put in place for a nationwide homeschooling programme.

In all fairness not all parents would be capable or indeed be able to homeschool .And parents with one child would have a n advantage over a parent with three children for example .Some parents are ill and not in a position to teach.
I would have huge concerns too for kids missing out on socialising and for kids with special educational needs . Parents are not teachers and not qualified to teach in my opinion and we would fall behind in our education and skills

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 12-05-2020 03:06PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

In all fairness not all parents would be capable or indeed be able to homeschool .And parents with one child would have a n advantage over a parent with three children for example .Some parents are ill and not in a position to teach.
I would have huge concerns too for kids missing out on socialising and for kids with special educational needs . Parents are not teachers and not qualified to teach in my opinion and we would fall behind in our education and skills

Oh I know, just floating the idea because if schools won't open then under the constitution the only other allowed option currently is homeschooling. So if this is the road the government decides to go down then it needs to be structured and supported accordingly (parents can't really work outside the home if they are homeschooling too).

With proper planning we won't have the random effort that we've seen for the past two months where it seems to be the luck of the draw whether or not the school/teachers engages properly.

At the moment to officially home school you need to register with the Child and Family Services and they make sure that the education meets the required standard. If this becomes a requirement then maybe some teachers could be redeployed there to do registrations and education checks.

The social aspect is important, actually probably the most important for younger kids. But hopefully we can negate any damage done by this lockdown by getting the kids socialising again very soon and they will bounce back.

Lillyfae · 12-05-2020 03:14PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

In fairness, you didn't phrase it well! You mean making sure teachers have the resources to teach remotely is the priority, at which case it doesn't matter if where they are.

I'd also prioritise making sure the kids have the resources over opening classrooms for teachers only, because if the schools can't reopen kids who don't have adequate online access are the ones who will suffer.

It's been a long thread, it wasn't my only post

iamwhoiam wrote: »

In all fairness not all parents would be capable or indeed be able to homeschool .And parents with one child would have a n advantage over a parent with three children for example .Some parents are ill and not in a position to teach.
I would have huge concerns too for kids missing out on socialising and for kids with special educational needs . Parents are not teachers and not qualified to teach in my opinion and we would fall behind in our education and skills

I know, although teachers have mentioned numerous times through all of this that parents are the primary educators. Absolutely besides the point. Lets say you work in a supermarket, are a nurse, a doctor, care assistant etc etc etc. You can't even work from home, let alone homeschool your children. And you have no experience whatsoever in doing so.

Everything that can be done to help disadvantaged children should be done. But all children shouldn't be held back because the powers that be can't get their act together hiding behind a point of "fairness".

iamwhoiam · 12-05-2020 03:19PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

It's been a long thread, it wasn't my only post

I know, although teachers have mentioned numerous times through all of this that parents are the primary educators. Absolutely besides the point. Lets say you work in a supermarket, are a nurse, a doctor, care assistant etc etc etc. You can't even work from home, let alone homeschool your children. And you have no experience whatsoever in doing so.

Everything that can be done to help disadvantaged children should be done. But all children shouldn't be held back because the powers that be can't get their act together hiding behind a point of "fairness".

My MIL lived through a horrendous World war 11 in a large city in Europe . After all the suffering , bombing , starvation etc she said once the war ended all they all wanted was for schooling to start again . Education by Educators is vital for children in my opinion .

downthemiddle · 12-05-2020 03:43PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Everything here is anecdotal. From teachers and parents alike. There are half on one side of the debate and half on the other. I am Irish and have plenty of family and friends there, so I'll do what everyone else here is doing, discussing my opinion with other people. And for what it's worth, the "go back to your own country" is a very weak argument, along the lines of attack is the best form of defence.

That’s a particularly disingenuous and nasty interpretation of my post, and extremely ironic given my circumstances.
Keep tilting at those windmills. I’m out.

SusanC10 · 12-05-2020 04:26PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Exactly, and when you take into account that kids will be mixing in a few days there will be no excuse to keep them closed.

I have read this a few times now.
Why will Kids be mixing in a few days?

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 12-05-2020 04:50PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

I have read this a few times now.
Why will Kids be mixing in a few days?

Because part of phase 1 from the 18th of May they are allowed to meet up outdoors in groups of four or less.

Sports teams are allowed to go back training in phase 2 from the 8th of June.

SusanC10 · 12-05-2020 04:55PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Because part of phase 1 from the 18th of May they are allowed to meet up outdoors in groups of four or less.

Sports teams are allowed to go back training in phase 2 from the 8th of June.

Does the Sports Teams include children? None of our children's sports have indicated a return yet. Our GAA Club have actually sent an email saying nothing will happen before July 20th at the earliest.

I presume the meeting up should be with social distancing which is difficult with children.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 12-05-2020 04:59PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Does the Sports Teams include children? None of our children's sports have indicated a return yet. Our GAA Club have actually sent an email saying nothing will happen before July 20th at the earliest.

I presume the meeting up should be with social distancing which is difficult with children.

I'd say it's down to the individual club to decide but they are allowed to return to group training from the 8th of June.

All with social distancing but I'd say it won't be long before that falls by the wayside.

khalessi · 12-05-2020 05:07PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I'd say it's down to the individual club to decide but they are allowed to return to group training from the 8th of June.

All with social distancing but I'd say it won't be long before that falls by the wayside.

Not if parents are sensible

SusanC10 · 12-05-2020 05:18PM

Well, our kids won't be going to meet up with anyone for the moment.
They would need one of us to drive for starters.
And none of their extra-curricular activities have indicated a return at all.

iamwhoiam · 12-05-2020 05:21PM

khalessi wrote: »

Not if parents are sensible

You said yourself it’s impossible to keep distance with the smallies .it will be impossible to keep children at a 2 metre length
I honestly think we need to loose the fear of people touching and focus on teaching hand washing and good hygiene .
I am going to be very honest here , if my grandchildren tip off me I am not going to panic , they have been nowhere in 6 weeks except in a park miles away from anyone as have most kids

jrosen · 12-05-2020 05:22PM

Once our clubs are open both my children will be back at their sports. Their soccer club has indicated a return within guidelines. So far nothing from their GAA.
That being said coaches are volunteers so I would imaging a lot depends on if the individual coaches feel comfortable being back.

khalessi · 12-05-2020 05:23PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

You said yourself it’s impossible to keep distance with the smallies .it will be impossible to keep children at a 2 metre length
I honestly think we need to loose the fear of people touching and focus on teaching hand washing and good hygiene .

Yeah, social distancing in schools a problem in the yard but in families kids do what they are told. So the idea that in a few days social distancing will be dropped seems mad to me.

iamwhoiam · 12-05-2020 05:25PM

khalessi wrote: »

Yeah, social distancing in schools a problem in the yard but in families kids do what they are told. So the idea that in a few days social distancing will be dropped seems mad to me.

Yes they do but I will no problem if my grandchildren tip off me .

khalessi · 12-05-2020 05:28PM

I mean with their friends.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 12-05-2020 05:42PM

khalessi wrote: »

Yeah, social distancing in schools a problem in the yard but in families kids do what they are told. So the idea that in a few days social distancing will be dropped seems mad to me.

I think people will make an effort initially but I don't think it will be sustainable long term. We will slip back into normality eventually but I don't think it will happen overnight.

I'll certainly be letting mine meet up for a stroll or picnic with a couple of pals. Where I am there are a large number of kids who were always mixing and playing together throughout this whole thing.

Very unfair and difficult to explain when you are following the rules yourself and you have to explain to your kids that yes some people are idiots/selfish. So with the restrictions lifting on Monday I'll be allowing them meet up without a doubt.

khalessi · 12-05-2020 05:53PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I think people will make an effort initially but I don't think it will be sustainable long term. We will slip back into normality eventually but I don't think it will happen overnight.

I'll certainly be letting mine meet up for a stroll or picnic with a couple of pals. Where I am there are a large number of kids who were always mixing and playing together throughout this whole thing.

Very unfair and difficult to explain when you are following the rules yourself and you have to explain to your kids that yes some people are idiots/selfish. So with the restrictions lifting on Monday I'll be allowing them meet up without a doubt.

Im lucky as kids friends live in an estate a good few minutes away and around here no young so they just have each other

Scoondal · 12-05-2020 06:41PM

If I get used to home schooling ... my kids might attend school for just 2 or 3 days a week.
I am now ignoring school work sent to me. We will work through it as it is a good reference for what my kids should be doing at their level. Actual going to school will be more relaxed in September for our family.

iamwhoiam · 13-05-2020 11:31AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0513/1138100-hiqa-coronavirus-review/

Interesting read from HIQA

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0513/1138100-hiqa-coronavirus-review/

The Health Information and Quality Authority has said it appears that children are not substantially contributing to the spread of coronavirus, in their household, or in schools.

The authority has published a summary of the latest research and evidence on immunity and the spread of Covid-19 by children.

It said that while evidence is limited, it appears that children are not significant contributors to the spread.

HIQA said that one study found that while there was a high transmission of Covid-19 in adults aged 25 years or older, transmission is lower in those under 14.

khalessi · 13-05-2020 11:42AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0513/1138100-hiqa-coronavirus-review/

Interesting read from HIQA

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0513/1138100-hiqa-coronavirus-review/

The Health Information and Quality Authority has said it appears that children are not substantially contributing to the spread of coronavirus, in their household, or in schools.

The authority has published a summary of the latest research and evidence on immunity and the spread of Covid-19 by children.

It said that while evidence is limited, it appears that children are not significant contributors to the spread.

HIQA said that one study found that while there was a high transmission of Covid-19 in adults aged 25 years or older, transmission is lower in those under 14.

Would be nice of it is true.

It would contradict a study realeased by Johns Hopkins University on April 27th

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30287-5/fulltext#%20

The household secondary attack rate was 11·2% (95% CI 9·1–13·8), and children were as likely to be infected as adults (infection rate 7·4% in children <10 years vs population average of 6·6%). The observed reproductive number (R) was 0·4 (95% CI 0·3–0·5), with a mean serial interval of 6·3 days (95% CI 5·2–7·6).

iamwhoiam · 13-05-2020 11:51AM

khalessi wrote: »

Would be nice of it is true.

It would contradict a study realeased by Johns Hopkins University on April 27th

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30287-5/fulltext#%20

The household secondary attack rate was 11·2% (95% CI 9·1–13·8), and children were as likely to be infected as adults (infection rate 7·4% in children <10 years vs population average of 6·6%). The observed reproductive number (R) was 0·4 (95% CI 0·3–0·5), with a mean serial interval of 6·3 days (95% CI 5·2–7·6).

If you get time to read the study it is about high transmission rates not high infection rate .The children are not in fact higher transmitters its the 20-40 year olds who seem to be

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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