How will schools be able to go back in September?

jrosen

If guidelines are that students need to wear masks then parents are going to have to explain that and relay how important it is. Teacher will need to enforce while in school.
For those kids who are unable to wear a mask, maybe sensory issues then i dont know. They could find it very upsetting.

wirelessdude01

jrosen wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree. Schools will need to have enforced policies regarding sickness.

But this needs to be fed down from the Department and doubt they will take the time to draw these guidelines/requirements up. As usual all this stuff will be left to schools to be organised at a local level and will then undoubtedly result in anger from parents and guardians.

jrosen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

But this needs to be fed down from the Department and doubt they will take the time to draw these guidelines/requirements up. As usual all this stuff will be left to schools to be organised at a local level and will then undoubtedly result in anger from parents and guardians.

Your probably right but its worth pissing off some parents for the safety of everyone else. The very ones who are angry will be the very ones chancing their arm I bet.
Its not ideal, it shouldn't be part of a teachers job but sick students put everyone else at risk.

khalessi

jrosen wrote: »

If guidelines are that students need to wear masks then parents are going to have to explain that and relay how important it is. Teacher will need to enforce while in school.
For those kids who are unable to wear a mask, maybe sensory issues then i dont know. They could find it very upsetting.

There are hats with visors/ face shields attached that might do or at least if everyone has them on and these children dont, it could be managed

Murple

sideswipe wrote: »

So what do you suggest? Keep schools closed till there is a vaccine?

Nobody is saying things should go back to normal but outside the box thinking is required. If this study is correct it means the risk of mass clusters in schools is unlikely. That has to give some reassurance, apart from that teachers may have to find ways to keep their distance and wear masks. Start and finish times may have to be staggered. Sanitising stations set up and regular deep cleans carried out. Ban parents standing around the gates chatting etc.

Yes some kids may not get the one to one SNA care they need or indeed up close attention from the teacher but it's still better that all kids having a huge chunk taken from their education until a vaccine is developed, tested, distributed and administered.

Do you understand the role of an SNA? Many children requiring the input of an SNA can’t attend school unless they have that assistance. They are often also the children who will have the least ability to maintain a distance from others or an understanding of why. The SNA are needed for help with hygiene and toileting, feeding, medication, because the child is a flight risk and must be held by the hand, mobility issues etc. For some of these children where behaviour is challenging or unpredictable, without the close and immediate support of an SNA, their classmates can’t learn or be supervised properly. Not providing that care is not an option. Even simple things like an interaction between the teacher and SNA would pose difficulties as much of what would be discussed would be of a sensitive nature and couldn’t be discussed at a 2 metre distance in the presence of the class. Given also that many SNA are now shared between several children in different classes, there is an even greater risk.

iamwhoiam

Just saw a piece on BBC about schools opening in Denmark . Teachers are so imaginative and proactive and some great suggestions . Lovely to see the happy faces

morebabies

jrosen wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree. Schools will need to have enforced policies regarding sickness.

I agree totally too, but in reality for me, that means my 5 yr old as an example, will be off school for months. He's suspected of developing asthma, he had a non stop series of viruses last winter from the start of November until a week after the shutdown in March. So he constantly had either a phlegmy cough or a runny nose. No exaggeration, because I had him several times at the docs and all they could say was he's maybe developing asthma.
I know the guidelines can't be tweaked to suit every child, and I also know there are very vulnerable children in school who will be considered high risk. I don't mind the idea of permanently homeschooling whatsoever, but do you think this will this be the advice for parents with vulnerable children?

spaceHopper

I've no clue how schools will reopen is September but I don't for one second believe that children don't spread it. They mightn't get as bad a dose as adults but they do get it. The study quoted is very limited.

Evey sick day I've had in the last few years is from something my kids caught in preschool and brought home.

My best guess is they will claim the virus in limited in the community and schools have to reopen. At the same time we'll all be walking around with 10 foot barge poles to keep the distance.

jrosen

morebabies wrote: »

I agree totally too, but in reality for me, that means my 5 yr old as an example, will be off school for months. He's suspected of developing asthma, he had a non stop series of viruses last winter from the start of November until a week after the shutdown in March. So he constantly had either a phlegmy cough or a runny nose. No exaggeration, because I had him several times at the docs and all they could say was he's maybe developing asthma.
I know the guidelines can't be tweaked to suit every child, and I also know there are very vulnerable children in school who will be considered high risk. I don't mind the idea of permanently homeschooling whatsoever, but do you think this will this be the advice for parents with vulnerable children?

Sounds like he had a pretty tough year. I think rules have to be made to suit the majority. Unfortunately it wont suit every student. Perhaps he just had a bad year, perhaps he was sick due to other kids coming in sick all the time? I can empathize as Ive had similar with my old child.

I would imagine (no expert) that anyone considered high risk will always have to take more precautions than the general population. I cant see student being told to stay home though either? ?

beggars_bush

As per usual some parents won't supply masks if they are recommended

Are schools going to provide them?
Will DES supply and pay for them?

kandr10

On the subject of face masks, the purpose is to catch droplets right? The problem I see with kids wearing masks all day is that they would touch them often, without thinking. As long as they’re doing that, they’d be as well not wearing them. They would lose efficacy. I suspect that’s why the kids in China had to bring so many with them. They’re taking them on and off as they move around.

The hand towels are a good idea too but it does create a weak link if one kid isn’t washing theirs. Yes they’re the only ones touching it but then they are afterwards touching other surfaces, books etc which would spread germs. I’m a big advocate of zero waste solutions but in this instance I would revert to paper hand towels that can be disposed of. (In fact I made that very change in my own class just before we broke up).

Definitely a full curriculum will not be achievable. I don’t think this is such a big deal for primary school kids but for secondary it will have some knock on effects for a few years in terms of exam preparedness. It’s a tricky one.

kandr10

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Just saw a piece on BBC about schools opening in Denmark . Teachers are so imaginative and proactive and some great suggestions . Lovely to see the happy faces

What sort of things were they doing? Anything that would be practical for us to copy?

khalessi

kandr10 wrote: »

What sort of things were they doing? Anything that would be practical for us to copy?

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-52550470

Denmark have smaller classes than us, they have also coopted buildings such as museums and football stadiums as temporary classrooms.

Almost hourly handwashing

Small groups in class rooms with desks socially distanced

Previous article showed 8 or 9 children in a class

CHildren stay in the one group all day even on yard

khalessi

Holohon stated that there is not enough evidence for policy to say transmission doesnt occur between children

Meeting tomorrow re NPHET not anticipating changes

SusanC10

khalessi wrote: »

Holohon stated that there is not enough evidence for policy to say transmission doesnt occur between children

Meeting tomorrow re NPHET not anticipating changes

So, still planning a September opening then ?

pbthevet

If its safe to open schools then it was safe to allow the leaving cert go ahead.

Birdy

khalessi wrote: »

Holohon stated that there is not enough evidence for policy to say transmission doesnt occur between children

Meeting tomorrow re NPHET not anticipating changes

He didn't deny what Varadkar said.

Varadkar said it would reflect bad on us as a country if we were the last to open our schools.

Birdy

khalessi wrote: »

Holohon stated that there is not enough evidence for policy to say transmission doesnt occur between children

Meeting tomorrow re NPHET not anticipating changes

He didn't deny what Varadkar said.

Varadkar said it would reflect bad on us as a country if we were the last to open our schools.

khalessi

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ten-pupils-per-class-hourly-handwashing-what-reopened-schools-could-look-like-1.4234382

Classrooms look bigger and they have sinks in hall

bust basically

65sq feet per child
Desks 6.5 feet apart all directions
Children play in small groups of 3-5 within the smaller class group
Handwashing 1-2hourly
Toys tables doorhandles other surfaces cleaned twice a day
No sharing of food
Drop off ad colletions done at intervals and if possible outside of daycare and school
sit 6.5 feet away from each other on buses

They are also using other buildings

khalessi

Birdy wrote: »

He didn't deny what Varadkar said.

Varadkar said it would reflect bad on us as a country if we were the last to open our schools.

he said he didnt hear what leo said but there was only a limited amount of studies

So basically he is being cautious

Murple

Birdy wrote: »

Varadkar said it would reflect bad on us as a country if we were the last to open our schools.

That’s a very odd comment from Leo. We shouldn’t be concerned with how it looks to other countries. The government has set out a programme to follow. Is he saying that that’s all to change now?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Murple wrote: »

That’s a very odd comment from Leo. We shouldn’t be concerned with how it looks to other countries. The government has set out a programme to follow. Is he saying that that’s all to change now?

Couple of things released today would point to maybe the schools opening earlier but definitely by September.

Hard to see why when not much has changed and the Leaving cert has already been cancelled.

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Couple of things released today would point to maybe the schools opening earlier but definitely by September.

Hard to see why when not much has changed and the Leaving cert has already been cancelled.

I think Leo has one eye on social media and public rather than both on health and safety

iamwhoiam

kandr10 wrote: »

What sort of things were they doing? Anything that would be practical for us to copy?

They had boxes drawn in the yard where each child could stand or sit in the line

Inside they had half a class in and red tape across certain points , one across the teachers desk . Another red tape across half the class , one side of the tape never mixed with the other
They limited the children contacts in school to two other children so they could play in small groups only . And only with those children each day


The teacher interviewed had done a lot of research how to deal with the childrens fears and anxiety post lockdown . She spoke with them for the first few days and she laughed and said “ in actual fact the children were grand “ !

At yard time the kids sat or stood in their boxes and I took it that teachers would do games or exercises .
The kids looked delighted and not fazed by the new rules . They weren’t wearing masks and nor was the teacher

LilyShame

Reopen the schools!

Irelands children could be utterly lost by September.

Ireland innovates in other ways... Business innovation products and service... Less excuses... Department of Ed, get the finger out... Come up with solutions!!! By hook or Crook!

Lyle

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html#link-28c645f6

Just mentioned at the briefing and linked in a different thread.

I understand politician speak includes stuff to placate the population but Leo shouldn't have said anything about schools being safe soon. Sure, that Australian study is positive, but it's a tiny sample size. I would think that the above article about that Kawasaki explosion in NY almost totally negates the Australian study.

One thing that is vital in all this is strain sequencing. If only we could achieve a greater understanding of what strain or mutation is doing what to people and where in the world its doing it, countries would be better equipped for international comparison. As it is, its just still too wild to jump to conclusions about the transmission profile or the symptomatic effects based on the international experience.

r93kaey5p2izun

Examples of school safety precautions abroad:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1260293369424760832


https://twitter.com/i/status/1258669564725997568

iamwhoiam

Lovey to see little kids back to school .

khalessi

Noce to see them in school alright but that is a small school.

Not all the children are back. They had masks on in the classroom. Small classes. Children not allowed mix on yard or play with each other. Temp checks and hand hygiene on way in. Classroom look bigger than ours.
PPe for staff

Only thing i didnt like is they seemed to clean table and chair with same cloth.

Interesting to see what will be implemented here.

r93kaey5p2izun

I think it's unnatural and upsetting to see tbh, and worse than than no school. I certainly wouldn't like to be involved in it, or for any of my young relatives to be in that environment. Personally, I wouldn't be sending a child back to that. Those who believe the social side is of such importance may choose it, and that is a big part of primary education. I think it looks like a totally unrealistic and inefficient model to manage post primary education, and I would say the overwhelming majority of post primary students would benefit far more from properly resourced online teaching.