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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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  • #1232
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    khalessi wrote: »
    Love the last sentence, dying to know your more challenging issues.

    Yes difficulties but you yourself s a fellow teacher know that there are no such things as the average classroom as across Ireland we have new builds old builds, prefabs, huge schools and 1 or 2 teacher schools

    Right, and with no one-size fits all solution, the only solution is return en-masse or not at all... You cannot have stark differences in access to education across the state.


  • #1233
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    khalessi wrote: »
    Love the last sentence, dying to know your more challenging issues.

    Yes difficulties but you yourself s a fellow teacher know that there are no such things as the average classroom as across Ireland we have new builds old builds, prefabs, huge schools and 1 or 2 teacher schools

    That is why there are so many challenges. The approach required for the 15 children in school on Tory Island is very different to what is required for the near 1600 on campus in Knocklyon. There is no simple solution. Many people are, understandably, caught up in their own personal circumstances but there are 3505 primary schools in Ireland with 509652 pupils enrolled. This is a complex matter. The last thing any school wants is a fatality.
    The first priority of schools when they reopen will be wellbeing. They need to be able to rebuild their communities in a safe and well supported environment. Make no mistake our children have been scarred by this experience and schools will play a vital role in undoing this damage.
    The answer, however, is not to force an unworkable solution on schools because some parents are getting angsty. There has a be a well thought out approach, allowing for the individual challenges each school will face, based on robust dialogue in consultation with all partners. There has to be a trust that each school will act in the best interests of their pupils and a collective responsibility to ensure that they do so. A fresh approach will be required with and there may be little emphasis on academics initially as schools tackle the many other issues arising from this crisis.


  • #1234
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    Right, and with no one-size fits all solution, the only solution is return en-masse or not at all... You cannot have stark differences in access to education across the state.

    I think the schools will have to return en masse all or nothing.

    We need to get on with things, the entire country will be back working (all going to plan of course) come September so schools won't be any different.


  • #1235
    daydorunrun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    Have to giggle at the teachers on here claiming to be working from dawn til dusk with their students online and then posting extensively on this thread all morning, great multi taskers :)

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • #1236
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    daydorunrun wrote: »
    Have to giggle at the teachers on here claiming to be working from dawn til dusk with their students online and then posting extensively on this thread all morning, great multi taskers :)

    Want to be careful you are not accused of teacher bashing.:D


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  • #1237
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    daydorunrun wrote: »
    Have to giggle at the teachers on here claiming to be working from dawn til dusk with their students online and then posting extensively on this thread all morning, great multi taskers :)
    Yeah hilarious, the cohort you love to hate. They couldn't possibly be doing their jobs, especially given the level of scrutiny they're under. Do you not have a job you could be doing yourself? Why aren't you out there in a cape administering justice to all the ills of the world, or is education your only area of interest?

    How come nobody is meticulously analysing if the people working from home from Apple or the Department of Transport are doing their jobs at every moment?


  • #1238
    DSN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 288 ✭✭DSN


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Are they? In my kids school we get an email every Monday with a list of homework for the week and that's it. Nada online.
    Same at ours! I have suggested even an hour a week was told it wouldn't be fair on kids whose parents couldn't facilitate it and not fair on teachers with young kids and no childminders (so what the rest of us doing?!) I don't blame them though you can't teach primary kids online it's crazy!


  • #1239
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    All these kids will be mixing starting next week.

    Social distancing is not implementable in any meaningful way in primary schools.

    Vaccine is long way away if ever.

    Testing and contact tracing will be vital along with hygiene and new procedures around checking temps of staff and students.

    The schools will not be able to remain closed once case loads are very low and kids are mixing 3 or so months come September.

    We will be one of the last countries to open back up schools by September.

    Schools are open to staff as of phase one next week so that's when the practical planning needs to start.

    I wish people would stop saying selling statements like vaccines a long way off if ever. The fact is we don't know this, it may take a long long time but let's have some hope here. This whole pandemic has given rise to people with no scientific knowledge embracing the negativity. Yes maybe never is an option but maybe lots of things will happen that are positive. I feel those kinds of statements are not helping anyone.


  • #1240
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    DSN wrote: »
    Same at ours! I have suggested even an hour a week was told it wouldn't be fair on kids whose parents couldn't facilitate it and not fair on teachers with young kids and no childminders (so what the rest of us doing?!) I don't blame them though you can't teach primary kids online it's crazy!

    We're the same here an email once a week with work set out for the week, that's the extent of it.

    The only thing is that people including teachers will have to get back to proper work sooner rather than later. The government can't afford to continue to pay for people to stay at home especially when there's very many who aren't working or will have no job to return to.

    Teachers will not be paid to stay at home until the magical vaccine arrives.


  • #1241
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Yeah hilarious, the cohort you love to hate. They couldn't possibly be doing their jobs, especially given the level of scrutiny they're under. Do you not have a job you could be doing yourself? Why aren't you out there in a cape administering justice to all the ills of the world, or is education your only area of interest?

    How come nobody is meticulously analysing if the people working from home from Apple or the Department of Transport are doing their jobs at every moment?

    Think seeing how teachers also help up to 30 kids st a time is now impressive given parents are saying its impossible to help one or two and do their jobs. What do you think teachers are doing with the other 29 while helping your child etc etc, teachers are the ultimate multitaskers for good reason. Plus a lot of their work needs to be done before or after school as its prep before or assessment after.


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  • #1242
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Yeah hilarious, the cohort you love to hate. They couldn't possibly be doing their jobs, especially given the level of scrutiny they're under. Do you not have a job you could be doing yourself? Why aren't you out there in a cape administering justice to all the ills of the world, or is education your only area of interest?

    How come nobody is meticulously analysing if the people working from home from Apple or the Department of Transport are doing their jobs at every moment?

    In fairness, much to my amazement, the health service has really risen to the challenge. I think the whole situation has really shown the average, inflexible and resistant to change school system for what it is. It has been handled terribly, particularly around the LC.


  • #1243
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Dublingirl80 wrote: »
    Think seeing how teachers also help up to 30 kids st a time is now impressive given parents are saying its impossible to help one or two and do their jobs. What do you think teachers are doing with the other 29 while helping your child etc etc, teachers are the ultimate multitaskers for good reason. Plus a lot of their work needs to be done before or after school as its prep before or assessment after.

    I'm sure all the prep work and corrections balances out over the course of a year through salary and holidays.

    Teachers are trained and paid to do this work (and choose this career for themselves).

    Kids will behave differently when in a classroom setting than they do sitting at home with a parent. So you can see why someone trying to work full time at home while teaching a few kids might run into difficulties.


  • #1244
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    I'm sure all the prep work and corrections balances out over the course of a year through salary and holidays.

    Teachers are trained and paid to do this work (and choose this career for themselves).

    Kids will behave differently when in a classroom setting than they do sitting at home with a parent. So you can see why someone trying to work full time at home while teaching a few kids might run into difficulties.

    Or indeed how a teacher teaching from home while also trying to mind their own children might run in to difficulties?


  • #1245
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    History Queen wrote: »
    Or indeed how a teacher teaching from home while also trying to mind their own children might run in to difficulties?

    Well they have the benefit of not having to do it over the long Easter holidays. It also ends shortly for them too doesn't it? For most in the private sector working from home, we have been doing the same thing for 2 months now. It will continue right through to September if the schools open again. So its quite a different situation for parents. Many primary schools have just been sending on a bit of work at the beginning of the week, it really couldn't take more than a couple of hours to put it together. Some people don't like to hear complaints from others that have a much easier situation.


  • #1246
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    In fairness, much to my amazement, the health service has really risen to the challenge. I think the whole situation has really shown the average, inflexible and resistant to change school system for what it is. It has been handled terribly, particularly around the LC.

    Strangely it wasn’t teachers who made that decision. However the teachers have agreed to give predictive grades despite all the difficulty that will cause.
    Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant.


  • #1247
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    I'm sure all the prep work and corrections balances out over the course of a year through salary and holidays.

    Teachers are trained and paid to do this work (and choose this career for themselves).

    Kids will behave differently when in a classroom setting than they do sitting at home with a parent. So you can see why someone trying to work full time at home while teaching a few kids might run into difficulties.

    Oh I don't for one second think it's easy. That's exactly my point. Great that the work will be finished at least in 6 weeks time for the duration of the Summer and parents can get a break from the extra stress.


  • #1248
    Dublingirl80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 244 ✭✭Dublingirl80


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    I'm sure all the prep work and corrections balances out over the course of a year through salary and holidays.

    Teachers are trained and paid to do this work (and choose this career for themselves).

    Kids will behave differently when in a classroom setting than they do sitting at home with a parent. So you can see why someone trying to work full time at home while teaching a few kids might run into difficulties.

    There's still a shortage by the way if youd like to join the profession. The question was how are teachers multitasking. No complaints here, prep and assessment have always been done before and after contact hours, like you said part of the job.


  • #1249
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Strangely it wasn’t teachers who made that decision. However the teachers have agreed to give predictive grades despite all the difficulty that will cause.
    Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

    The unions are part of management and they were involved in the decision making though. On the one hand you have some teachers on here who won't do anything without a circular being sent around, on the other hand some of them want to be consulted on every decision.


  • #1250
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭History Queen


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Well they have the benefit of not having to do it over the long Easter holidays. It also ends shortly for them too doesn't it? For most in the private sector working from home, we have been doing the same thing for 2 months now. It will continue right through to September if the schools open again. So its quite a different situation for parents. Many primary schools have just been sending on a bit of work at the beginning of the week, it really couldn't take more than a couple of hours to put it together. Some people don't like to hear complaints from others that have a much easier situation.


    I can't comment on how long it takes to put weekly work together as it isn't the system I'm using as I'm in second level so I'm teaching daily rather than weekly. It takes me ages but a lot of that is my own lack of IT skills and having to create and adapt resources so they work for distance learning. This is not something I have been trained to do. I'm currently waiting on files to upload to teams pages so I can move on and correct another set of assignments.


    In good news you won't have to teach your children during the summer holidays or had to do it during Easter so that must have helped ease your burden.


  • #1251
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭History Queen


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    The unions are part of management and they were involved in the decision making though. On the one hand you have some teachers on here who won't do anything without a circular being sent around, on the other hand some of them want to be consulted on every decision.

    I don't understand what you mean by unions being part of management? Do you mean of each school? Neither the principal nor the deputy of my school is a member of my union. And we're not allowed to act on anything without a circular so as to ensure nationwide uniformity of provision.


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  • #1252
    daydorunrun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Yeah hilarious, the cohort you love to hate. They couldn't possibly be doing their jobs, especially given the level of scrutiny they're under. Do you not have a job you could be doing yourself? Why aren't you out there in a cape administering justice to all the ills of the world, or is education your only area of interest?

    How come nobody is meticulously analysing if the people working from home from Apple or the Department of Transport are doing their jobs at every moment?

    Sorry miss/sir.

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • #1253
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    History Queen wrote: »
    I can't comment on how long it takes to put weekly work together as it isn't the system I'm using as I'm in second level so I'm teaching daily rather than weekly. It takes me ages but a lot of that is my own lack of IT skills and having to create and adapt resources so they work for distance learning. This is not something I have been trained to do. I'm currently waiting on files to upload to teams pages so I can move on and correct another set of assignments.


    In good news you won't have to teach your children during the summer holidays or had to do it during Easter so that must have helped ease your burden.

    It doesn't make much difference to me if the schools are open. We have 2 small children and it isn't a huge effort to keep them busy with reading and maths. We would continue with that in the summer anyway.


  • #1254
    History Queen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭History Queen


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    It doesn't make much difference to me if the schools are open. We have 2 small children and it isn't a huge effort to keep them busy with reading and maths. We would continue with that in the summer anyway.

    To be honest if I could wave a magic wand and return to normality with regards to schools I would. I find it difficult having to pre-record my classes at night when my son is in bed so I have them ready to upload the following day. I'm sure every household has their own issues/difficulties.

    I hope we will return to some sort of semblance of normality sooner rather than later.


  • #1255
    jrosen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭jrosen


    Any parents I have spoken too have said its the uncertainly that is bothering them the most. For some their own work has continued, even gotten busier and for others they know based on the phased plan when they will be expected to return to work themselves.

    Parents are getting by for now but its not sustainable. Not for them and their own workload and certainly not for the kids.


  • #1256
    Scruff101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 250 ✭✭Scruff101


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    This is my point exactly. One teacher seems to think that because she's going above and beyond that everyone is doing it and that is clearly not the case. The attitudes on here prove that.

    On a side note, I just took a quick trip to the DoE website. Interestingly, they seem to have a lot of online resources and some training available on how to use them at first glance.

    Additionally, there is a press release stipulating that schools are open for teachers to collect/ use the resources there if that is needed. I found it unbelievable that this wasn't the case, and there it was in black and white. There would be no danger whatsoever to a teacher sitting in an empty classroom all day (if necessary) as long as they are practicing good hygiene.


    Totally agree, there's no interaction from our children's teachers apart from an email for next fortnight's work.
    Luckily kids love doing their school work and I can correct it. Some form of interaction from teachers or with class group would be of such significant benefit to kids who have been away from teacher and class for so long.

    I work in the health service, I'm not waiting for my clients to come to me looking for interaction I'm actively seeking them out. Surely parents shouldn't have to hound teachers for some form of interaction. As things stand my kids won't have seen teacher for almost 6 months come Sept, a bit of virtual/zoom interaction would be good for them. Not necessarily to teach but to know they've not been forgotten/catch up with class etc.
    The only saving grace is that I know we are not alone, parents with kids in other local schools are having same struggle so not isolated to our school.

    As an aside ive emailed teacher three times in the past week as she finally set up an email. No response. I really don't have time to go chasing principals, boards of mgt just to get a simple email reply.

    Just to add I'm well aware of teachers out there doing trojan work including family and friends working in education unfortunately just like in any service there's others doing nothing unfortunately.


  • #1257
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Scruff101 wrote: »
    Totally agree, there's no interaction from our children's teachers apart from an email for next fortnight's work.
    Luckily kids love doing their school work and I can correct it. Some form of interaction from teachers or with class group would be of such significant benefit to kids who have been away from teacher and class for so long.

    I work in the health service, I'm not waiting for my clients to come to me looking for interaction I'm actively seeking them out. Surely parents shouldn't have to hound teachers for some form of interaction. As things stand my kids won't have seen teacher for almost 6 months come Sept, a bit of virtual/zoom interaction would be good for them. Not necessarily to teach but to know they've not been forgotten/catch up with class etc.
    The only saving grace is that I know we are not alone, parents with kids in other local schools are having same struggle so not isolated to our school.

    As an aside ive emailed teacher three times in the past week as she finally set up an email. No response. I really don't have time to go chasing principals, boards of mgt just to get a simple email reply.

    Just to add I'm well aware of teachers out there doing trojan work including family and friends working in education unfortunately just like in any service there's others doing nothing unfortunately.

    It is likely that there might be another shutdown during a second wave. There needs to be some sort of consistent plan. I think there should also be a review to see what schools have been doing, what has worked well, what % have kept up contact with pupils etc.


  • #1258
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    We're the same here an email once a week with work set out for the week, that's the extent of it.

    The only thing is that people including teachers will have to get back to proper work sooner rather than later. The government can't afford to continue to pay for people to stay at home especially when there's very many who aren't working or will have no job to return to.

    Teachers will not be paid to stay at home until the magical vaccine arrives.

    No but they will be paid like everyone else working from home.


  • #1259
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    khalessi wrote: »
    No but they will be paid like everyone else working from home.

    Most people will be doing more than an email a week to get their salary though.


  • #1260
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    In fairness, much to my amazement, the health service has really risen to the challenge. I think the whole situation has really shown the average, inflexible and resistant to change school system for what it is. It has been handled terribly, particularly around the LC.
    If you think the health service is to be held up as an example of good practice currently you haven't been paying any attention. The disastrous situation many people find themselves in waiting on treatments and for other tests besides coronavirus is going to have catastrophic outcomes.

    The responsibility for what happened with the Leaving Cert lies mainly with Leo "by hook or by crook" Varadkar and he brought Joe McHugh down with him.

    As for the rest of the education system, teachers will be going back into schools from May 18th to organise for whenever students come back.
    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    I'm sure all the prep work and corrections balances out over the course of a year through salary and holidays.

    Teachers are trained and paid to do this work (and choose this career for themselves).
    Continuously and with emphasis you refuse to account for the health risks whatsoever in your haste to offload your children, so your posts and disdain for school-goers doesn't even register with me, and I'd imagine many other posters.


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  • #1261
    Jim Root
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 487 ✭✭Jim Root


    Teachers should be getting a 20% pay cut minimum while this is ongoing.


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