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Masks

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    Appears this machine is up and running in Sligo....as stated in his tweat less than an hour ago, STRILE PACKING MACHINE NEEDED FOR MASKS. They look like kn95's....Sands is on twitter engaging with Aerlingus and Covney in public tweats.

    Obviously, public is down the waiting list, supplies to be focused elsewhere first.

    Screen-Shot-2020-05-06-at-18.48.17.png

    Screen-Shot-2020-05-06-at-18.54.02.png

    EXTRACT FROM ARTICLE BEHIND UK TIMES FIREWALL BELOW

    Mr Sands, co-founder of Answer Ireland’s Call, said he was working on creating a supply-line of masks in Ireland by producing them here. “We will be producing FFP2 masks for the front line, and beyond that we want to be able to create a supply chain and distribution line for every man, woman and child in Ireland to get masks in their door, delivered in a certain number, at cost, on a weekly or monthly basis,” he said.

    Answer Ireland’s Call, a not-for-profit, was set up to support the HSE’s Be On Call for Ireland campaign. It has raised funds to fly Irish medics home from abroad, provide accommodation so they can self-isolate and also sources personal protection equipment.

    Mr Sands, a former Silicon Valley technology executive who recently returned to Ireland from California, added: “We have been given permission by the HSE to import a mask-making machine. We are looking at Asia and Europe at the moment but we have some other options.”

    Screen-Shot-2020-05-06-at-19.04.25.png


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭Arrival


    Seanergy wrote: »
    Appears this machine is up and running in Sligo....as stated in his tweat less than an hour ago, STRILE PACKING MACHINE NEEDED FOR MASKS. They look like kn95's....Sands is on twitter engaging with Aerlingus and Covney in public tweats.

    Obviously, public is down the waiting list, supplies to be focused elsewhere first.

    Screen-Shot-2020-05-06-at-18.48.17.png

    Screen-Shot-2020-05-06-at-18.54.02.png

    EXTRACT FROM ARTICLE BEHIND UK TIMES FIREWALL BELOW

    Mr Sands, co-founder of Answer Ireland’s Call, said he was working on creating a supply-line of masks in Ireland by producing them here. “We will be producing FFP2 masks for the front line, and beyond that we want to be able to create a supply chain and distribution line for every man, woman and child in Ireland to get masks in their door, delivered in a certain number, at cost, on a weekly or monthly basis,” he said.

    Answer Ireland’s Call, a not-for-profit, was set up to support the HSE’s Be On Call for Ireland campaign. It has raised funds to fly Irish medics home from abroad, provide accommodation so they can self-isolate and also sources personal protection equipment.

    Mr Sands, a former Silicon Valley technology executive who recently returned to Ireland from California, added: “We have been given permission by the HSE to import a mask-making machine. We are looking at Asia and Europe at the moment but we have some other options.”

    Screen-Shot-2020-05-06-at-19.04.25.png

    That's brilliant to see. I can't help wondering what's going on in that factory in Limerick that produce masks, are they increasing capacity to help in a similar way? Are they purely fulfilling orders for the health services staff? Seems to be sparse details on it so far


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Arrival wrote: »

    Luke O’Neill - Professor of Biochemistry at the School of Immunology at Trinity College Dublin

    Probably just another youtube conspiracy theorist!
    "The Royal Society, a very famous institution, issued a big report two days ago summarising the evidence… the best brains in the world say you have to wear a mask in a supermarket or on public transport.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭Arrival


    2u2me wrote: »
    Luke O’Neill - Professor of Biochemistry at the School of Immunology at Trinity College Dublin

    Probably just another youtube conspiracy theorist!

    "THE EVIDENCE ISN'T THERE!!!" - Nobodies on the internet

    Meanwhile people actually qualified to discuss the handling of virus outbreaks are supportive


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    If people are looking for basic textile masks still you can find them on zalando: They have have a few different types available in Ireland (more in Germany) but they keep going in and out of stock. If you're interested you can subscribe for notifications.

    https://www.zalando.ie/evenandodd-5-pack-community-mask-light-blue-ev451e02r-k11.html

    https://www.zalando.ie/zign-3-pack-community-mask-blackdark-bluewhite-zi151e00g-q11.html

    https://www.zalando.ie/zign-3-pack-community-mask-black-zi151e00g-q12.html

    https://www.zalando.ie/zign-3-pack-community-mask-white-zi151e00g-a11.html


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    2u2me wrote: »
    Luke O’Neill - Professor of Biochemistry at the School of Immunology at Trinity College Dublin

    Probably just another youtube conspiracy theorist!

    They're backed into a corner at this stage. There's no getting out of it, we need to wear masks... Problem is, it has to be made mandatory. It can't be based on advice because there's idiots out there who won't wear them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭sunbeam


    So what happens to people who cannot wear them for medical reasons-breathing difficulties etc? Will we require some kind of medical cert to carry around at all times or just have to stay at home?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,755 ✭✭✭SleetAndSnow


    No: other
    Just a question which has probably been asked a lot of times, but search function isn't working for me so apologies for that.

    Local shop is selling some reusable cotton face masks, would they be any good for this? The reusable aspect is intriguing and think it would be similar to the making your own out of a t-shirt?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    sunbeam wrote: »
    So what happens to people who cannot wear them for medical reasons-breathing difficulties etc? Will we require some kind of medical cert to carry around at all times or just have to stay at home?

    Would a face shield work for people with medical reasons?

    I've always hated the rain in my face. I want a face shield with wipers.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭Zardoz


    Yes: other
    2u2me wrote: »
    Luke O’Neill - Professor of Biochemistry at the School of Immunology at Trinity College Dublin

    He is the so called expert who was on the Late Late Show saying that there was no evidence that wearing a facemask will protect you at all and people wearing them were getting carried away as they had seen too many horror films.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭Arrival


    Zardoz wrote: »
    He is the so called expert who was on the Late Late Show saying that there was no evidence that wearing a facemask will protect you at all and people wearing them were getting carried away as they had seen too many horror films.


    Have you ever had an opinion or a stance on a topic, encountered new evidence or been exposed to a different way of thinking and then changed your mind as a result? This happens fairly often, at least with reasonable people


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Watching that clip, he's right in what he says if you take the question to be about surgical or basic cotton masks as opposed to respirators or medical grade FFP2/3 masks. He makes it clear that yes masks are good if you have the virus and stopping you infecting others. They do very little to stop you getting the virus.

    The point he's making is something people are still struggling to understand. I see a lot of people wearing masks thinking they protect you for others.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Zardoz wrote: »
    He is the so called expert who was on the Late Late Show saying that there was no evidence that wearing a facemask will protect you at all and people wearing them were getting carried away as they had seen too many horror films.


    First time I'm seeing this but he clearly says in this video
    "Masks are effective if you're infected"
    "It'll stop me coughing it on you"
    "There's no evidence that wearing a face mask will protect you(the wearer) at all"
    "The main reason is to stop you spreading it"

    All of the above seems correct. However these below statements were made before we knew asymptomatic people were also spreaders. The upload date on this video is Feb 28th. I think news of asymptomatic spreaders was out on April 20th.
    "If you're not infected no reason to wear a face mask"
    "But if you don't have this, no need to wear a face mask"

    It seems he's saying people wearing masks to protect themselves have seen to many horror movies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    Yes: to protect myself and others
    Except they have a functioning government to make mask wearing mandatory. We dont. Current caretaker government can't sign anything else into law at the moment.

    It wouldn't be in law here and they know it, hence it'll be a non enforceable recommendation.
    Mask wearing is not enforced by law in Hong Kong. It has 90%+ adoption by HK people, who I'd say wouldn't necessarily agree with the view that HK have a functioning government.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,323 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    2u2me wrote: »
    All of the above seems correct. However these below statements were made before we knew asymptomatic people were also spreaders. The upload date on this video is Feb 28th. I think news of asymptomatic spreaders was out on April 20th.
    The WHO noted asymptomatic spread in early February. It was being reported in a few of the main medical journals soon after. Germany had published info on one cluster tracked to an asymptomatic patient in mid Feb.

    But let's forget that and imagine they didn't have basic search engines back then, we know today and have known for over two months that asymptomatic spread is quite the risk and nations that previously held the same position on masks are now rowing back on this, even the Americans are. And yet our bunch are still peddling the mantra of "Wearing a mask is unlikely to be of any benefit if you are not sick" with an added copypasta(and uninformative) sop of how to wear a mask if you choose too and have no intention of changing that. In fact they removed references to masks from their breaking lockdown plans in the last week.

    As for masks not protecting "at all". Again we have the magical one way valve mask in action. They apparently will stop my cough getting to you, but completely fail at stopping your cough getting to me. And as for "just wash your hands", have a look at the studies and science behind how effective that is. It's not nearly so clear how effective that is. Handwashing and wearing a mask shows a much greater efficacy.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    What type of masks?



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    Manion wrote: »
    Watching that clip, he's right in what he says if you take the question to be about surgical or basic cotton masks as opposed to respirators or medical grade FFP2/3 masks. He makes it clear that yes masks are good if you have the virus and stopping you infecting others. They do very little to stop you getting the virus.

    The point he's making is something people are still struggling to understand. I see a lot of people wearing masks thinking they protect you for others.

    I think people can be infectious about 2 days before they show any symptoms. Also there is asymptomatic spread where people are infected but don't have symptoms and are spreading the virus.

    I think at this stage masks should be made mandatory for everyone using public transport, and in indoor environments like shops, offices, factories, especially now considering there's talks about opening the economy up again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 968 ✭✭✭railer201


    Yes: valved
    Wibbs wrote: »
    The WHO noted asymptomatic spread in early February. It was being reported in a few of the main medical journals soon after. Germany had published info on one cluster tracked to an asymptomatic patient in mid Feb.

    But let's forget that and imagine they didn't have basic search engines back then, we know today and have known for over two months that asymptomatic spread is quite the risk and nations that previously held the same position on masks are now rowing back on this, even the Americans are. And yet our bunch are still peddling the mantra of "Wearing a mask is unlikely to be of any benefit if you are not sick" with an added copypasta(and uninformative) sop of how to wear a mask if you choose too and have no intention of changing that. In fact they removed references to masks from their breaking lockdown plans in the last week.

    As for masks not protecting "at all". Again we have the magical one way valve mask in action. They apparently will stop my cough getting to you, but completely fail at stopping your cough getting to me. And as for "just wash your hands", have a look at the studies and science behind how effective that is. It's not nearly so clear how effective that is. Handwashing and wearing a mask shows a much greater efficacy.

    Clearly any filter material works in both directions and cotton acts as a filter through hydrophilic or wicking action. Cotton has excellent 'wicking' properties, just dip a corner of a handkerchief in some water and watch how quickly the water soaks up through the material due to 'wicking' or 'hydrophilic' action.

    In the following tests they mimicked the virus with 100 nanometre fluorescent particles and we can see these clearly in the videos.

    .............................................

    Making a homemade COVID mask? Study explains best fabric choices
    by University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign




    First, most common household fabrics, such as T-shirt material, have 40% or higher droplet blocking when used as a single layer. In two layers, to our surprise, T-shirt fabric had a 98% droplet blocking efficiency—exceeding that of the medical mask, while maintaining better breathability.

    Second, most common fabrics are hydrophilic, meaning they up soak water, whereas medical masks are hydrophobic, meaning they repel water. This tells us that common household fabrics use an alternative mechanism to hold droplets by retaining them.

    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-homemade-covid-mask-fabric-choices.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭Zardoz


    Yes: other
    Arrival wrote: »
    Have you ever had an opinion or a stance on a topic, encountered new evidence or been exposed to a different way of thinking and then changed your mind as a result? This happens fairly often, at least with reasonable people

    Yes of course .

    However he shouldn't have been so dismissive of people wearing masks and he shouldn't have said "Theres no need to wear a mask,absolutely not if you don't have it".


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Wibbs wrote: »
    As for masks not protecting "at all". Again we have the magical one way valve mask in action. They apparently will stop my cough getting to you, but completely fail at stopping your cough getting to me. And as for "just wash your hands", have a look at the studies and science behind how effective that is. It's not nearly so clear how effective that is. Handwashing and wearing a mask shows a much greater efficacy.

    Are they masks or are they respirators? I think a lot of this comes down to what the public consider a mask to be and what medical experts consider them to be. I just conclude that all the previous advise related to the community mask concept.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    No: I don't care enough
    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's advice not a requirement . As Harris has said you can make an informed decision. Gotta ask here though are you seriously going to walk around with a mask on your face until a vaccine is found?
    Absolutely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    No: I don't care enough
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Sense? With the calibre of mediocre muppets we have in charge? Just add this to the list of screwups and delays in our handling of this. Though it beggars belief that they are so hellbent on removing masks from the equation now when even the anti mask nations have done an about turn regarding them. Other than Sweden I can't think of another EU nation that isn't mandating them for at least some situations like public transport? It's mad, the Irish authorities finally pluck up the courage to have an independent thought and it's a retarded one. Figures.

    Like I reckoned earlier they'll accept three to four thousand dead and claim success because we predicted it could have been much higher, blah blah. Sure aren't we great.
    3k dead is per capita result worse than Italy, France and Spain. Only Belgium and UK would be worse...

    Absolutely abysmal result if it comes to that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    No: I don't care enough
    Mike3287 wrote: »
    It's either isolate that group from society or gear them up

    Virus can't be stopped here now, it's too widespread and do we have the man power to enforce mask wearing country wide?

    I'd love everyone to maskup, it's the the way to go

    I wear a mask/eye wear out and about and when I have to meet clients

    What's your solution?

    Mask up whole country and enforce it?

    Can it be done?

    Of course it can be done. Korea, Taiwan, Japan, China, Singapore, Czechia, Austria, Germany, France, some US jurisdictions. The list goes on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    McGiver wrote: »
    Of course it can be done. Korea, Taiwan, Japan, China, Singapore, Czechia, Austria, Germany, France, some US jurisdictions. The list goes on.

    Those great countries don't have travellers

    Good luck getting them to wear masks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    Saw this and thought we were onto a winner, but it's referring to the north. Hopefully will be done here too, and hopefully many people just read the tweet

    https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1258428630159503361?s=20


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,089 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    A metastudy has found that masks do protect health care workers: https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2765801/epidemiology-risk-factors-coronavirus-infection-health-care-workers-living-rapid
    64 studies met inclusion criteria; 43 studies addressed burden of HCW infections (15 on SARS-CoV-2), and 34 studies addressed risk factors (3 on SARS-CoV-2). Health care workers accounted for a significant proportion of coronavirus infections and may experience particularly high infection incidence after unprotected exposures. Illness severity was lower than in non-HCWs. Depression, anxiety, and psychological distress were common in HCWs during the coronavirus disease 2019 outbreak. The strongest evidence on risk factors was on PPE use and decreased infection risk. The association was most consistent for masks but was also observed for gloves, gowns, eye protection, and handwashing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    Arrival wrote: »
    That's brilliant to see. I can't help wondering what's going on in that factory in Limerick that produce masks, are they increasing capacity to help in a similar way? Are they purely fulfilling orders for the health services staff? Seems to be sparse details on it so far

    Haven't the foggiest, very sparse info re home production.

    article in IT today about Measc could be behind paywall....so small extract only below. Maybe the State aren't prepared to back them.
    Coronavirus: Irishman sets up company for mask production in Sligo

    ‘Restarting Ireland is one thing but restarting Ireland safely is another’



    A pair of brothers have sourced machines to produce the equipment in China and Germany and hope to be up and running in around two weeks’ time, providing medical-grade masks for “as close to cost as possible”.


    Have been looking at various means in which they can ramp up domestic production. There are two main pillars to that.


    The first is being able to get our hands on the machines themselves that will provide a sufficient outcome so that we can make an impact on the restart effort,” Mr Sands said. “


    The second is on raw materials, which are becoming increasingly difficult to acquire. We’ve been looking at the options for domestic supply and how other small, Irish companies might be able to step forward and create what’s called meltblown material to make masks.


    Mr Sands said he has a machine confirmed in Germany and three in China, but that shipping costs are problematic.


    “We have high hopes that the German machine will be on the island in the next 10 days and will be ready for output,” he added.


    Mr Sands said he would “welcome a partnership with anybody else, whether that’s government or corporate”.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    Coming from a healthcare setting the wearing of masks will only work if it's mandatory for everyone. The standard masks you see that are about 1 euro each only protect another person from you, they do not protect you against others.

    The more expensive and less readily available FFP2 and FFP3 will protect both you and others.

    So in summary, I won't wear a mask in general unless everyone else is wearing one or if I'm going to be close to someone who is vunerable.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    pinkyeye wrote: »

    So in summary, I won't wear a mask in general unless everyone else is wearing one or if I'm going to be close to someone who is vunerable.

    So in summary if everyone adopted your attitude no one will wear a mask. What is wrong with you wearing a mask to protect others? Lead by example?


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