Masks

Arrival · 05-05-2020 08:52PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't see any evidence that the risks out weigh the benefits if your healthy. If your healthy and get the virus on your mask and handle it or don't wear it correctly your putting yourself at greater risk as the viral load is concentrated on it.
With the worke thing it just feels like it's something being forced in us, the Karen's are just waiting to let rip at people not wearing them.
If you feel safer in one fine, wear it. Don't force it like France where there using CCTV and drones to enforce compliance.

Any viral load which ends up on a mask is viral load which would've been inhaled if not for the mask being worn in the first place

And the whole point of 'healthy' people being included in the requirement to wear masks is the fact that this virus specifically can spread to and from people who are healthy. They can have the virus and be highly infectious without realising it.

There's no way of knowing whether they are or not unless everyone is tested at once, or in very quick succession; these aren't realistic options. Mask wearing is a simple measure that puts a big barrier between the infected and the uninfected. The virus only spreads from people's mouths and noses, so covering those body parts means the virus either gets spread much less or not at all. Considering these factors and still being averse to wearing when doing so would be playing a part in helping the overall public health of your country as a whole is very, very odd. If you're respecting the lockdown out of a feeling of wanting to help our healthcare staff and our most vulnerable then you should respect mask wearing in the same way. Especially since they're able to contribute towards us getting out of lockdown

As for the bold; the whole point is that we would all feel safer if everyone went with it since you'd be relieved knowing nobody around you has potentially infectious droplets and aerosols escaping their mouths and noses

Arrival · 05-05-2020 09:01PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

That sounds like the most sensible option.

I'm happy to wait for the HSE's realistic guidelines to change.

Whilst you are obviously clued-in about mask-wearing in general,the vast majority would have difficulty seperating their N98 from their P45.

The HSE's current guidelines appear well founded on commonsense and do err on the side of freedom to choose ...

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/face-masks-disposable-gloves.html

I'm happy enough with that.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/protect-yourself-and-others.html

This aspect now needs to be added to the Rules of the Road,as the potential of being killed by a Vehicle after you lep off the footpath out onto the middle of the road to avoid another pedestrian FAR exceeds the risk of CV19 killing you....with or without a mask !

Informative article here from a former Consultant Pathologist...

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/face-masks-should-there-be-a-cover-up-

So,to my thinking,unless EVERYBODY is kitted out in Hazmat style masks,or even full hoods,then the current trend remains largely based on a feelgood factor (nothing wrong with that of itself)

If wearing a mask makes you feel better,then wear away....just don't be giving me daggers looks because you can see my sweet smile

It's actually worrying that people still place this much blind trust in the HSE considering they were telling people that unless they are showing symptoms there is no need to isolate, weeks into the pandemic when we could easily find from other countries, ourselves as normal people, that asymptomatic people were infectious. They even told a doctor it was okay to continue doing his shifts after returning from Italy. I suppose you were smiling away, blissfully in your own bubble, thinking "I'm happy with their guidelines" back then as well

owlbethere · 05-05-2020 11:28PM

ixoy wrote: »

Saw this 'Why we should all be wearing face masks' article on BBC Future, that's well worth a read. Maybe it'll finally convince Wibbs - not sure what his position is

How anyone can argue with that, I will never know.

Away With The Fairies · 06-05-2020 12:02AM

Yes: valved

Anyone making face masks, hold it up to the light, if you can see light through it, it's not that good. Include a filter of some sort. Filters can be coffee filter, kitchen paper, dried baby wipe, someone else mentioned earlier in this thread meltblown wipes but they are expensive to ship here. I like this video where she included a coffee filter and easy to make.

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/health/a32239755/stop-foggy-glasses-with-face-mask/

Tipperary animal lover · 06-05-2020 06:05AM

Yes: homemade

Hi all, ill be home later today got out of Vietnam thank feck, ill post the masks on by friday all going ok( jetlag is gonna be a killer), ill contact the peolpe who agreed to take them via pm tomorrow ya should have them latest next Wednesday.

Away With The Fairies · 06-05-2020 12:21PM

Yes: valved

I really don't understand why Ireland is taking its time on masks or face coverings.

Can be spread in droplets by just talking. We should all be covering our mouths and nose. Along with other measures, distancing, hand washing and respiratory hygiene (I wear a mask when out and still sneeze into my elbow).

Arrival · 06-05-2020 12:47PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I really don't understand why Ireland is taking its time on masks or face coverings.

Can be spread in droplets by just talking. We should all be covering our mouths and nose. Along with other measures, distancing, hand washing and respiratory hygiene (I wear a mask when out and still sneeze into my elbow).

They should still encourage that too. All measures like that, that can help stop the virus escaping people's mouths and noses, should be urged. Varadkar really needs to put aside the robotic poetry bull**** during his next address and actually just talk to us as a human: explain that the virus only spreads if people allow it to, explain that masks are not a silver bullet but definitely a measure that can help us, explain how to make an effective homemade mask and emphasise the importance of not touching them and continuing with all other elements of hygiene while outside the home, and upon returning home

Very frustrating being a normal person and basically waiting for our government to come out with stuff like this which we know for certain will help the country, we're always so ****ing slow and it gets you down. Why can other countries be on the ball but never us!

Away With The Fairies · 06-05-2020 01:02PM

Yes: valved

Arrival wrote: »

They should still encourage that too. All measures like that, that can help stop the virus escaping people's mouths and noses, should be urged. Varadkar really needs to put aside the robotic poetry bull**** during his next address and actually just talk to us as a human: explain that the virus only spreads if people allow it to, explain that masks are not a silver bullet but definitely a measure that can help us, explain how to make an effective homemade mask and emphasise the importance of not touching them and continuing with all other elements of hygiene while outside the home, and upon returning home

Very frustrating being a normal person and basically waiting for our government to come out with stuff like this which we know for certain will help the country, we're always so ****ing slow and it gets you down. Why can other countries be on the ball but never us!

We are being told we are being so good... I'm still not so sure about being so good because of not testing everybody... But people are buying it...

Let's see how good we really are with mandatory face coverings.

What are they so afraid of, a reduction in cases?

bacon? · 06-05-2020 01:43PM

I live in Thailand, most people have been wearing masks from the get go. Can't enter most shops without having one on.

Are they easy to come by in Ireland? Can you pick em up in Spar?

What Username Guidelines · 06-05-2020 01:49PM

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-cut-advice-on-masks-from-its-roadmap-39184465.html

Paywalled but the preview is enough to kill hope. They should really be recommending them now, not when restrictions are lifted. It would put a massive dent in contagion in supermarkets seeing as they're pretty much the only places officially open right now. It makes so much sense.

VonLuck · 06-05-2020 01:58PM

In an ideal world masks are a great idea, but the reality is that people will inadvertently touch their face whilst wearing them.

Lets say you have the virus and have been using a mask. You go home, put the mask to one side then pick it up again the next day and go to the shop. You have just touched a mask with a huge viral load and now you are pottering about touching a lot of things in the shop.

The other instance is that you are not infected and are wearing a mask. You go around a shop and are touching a lot of different objects. Then you have an itch on your face because of how the mask sits, or maybe the mask is a little bit uncomfortable and you adjust it. You have potentially gotten the virus on your face now.

I'm not saying everyone will do this, but people instinctively do things like this and only realise after the fact "oh crap, I shouldn't have done that"!

Maybe the risk associated with people touching their face or spreading the viral load from touching masks and then objects is much lower than not wearing a mask at all, but I have yet to see a definitive study on that.

Away With The Fairies · 06-05-2020 02:01PM

Yes: valved

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-cut-advice-on-masks-from-its-roadmap-39184465.html

Paywalled but the preview is enough to kill hope. They should really be recommending them now, not when restrictions are lifted. It would put a massive dent in contagion in supermarkets seeing as they're pretty much the only places officially open right now. It makes so much sense.

Wtf?

Their advice was face coverings for the second phase??? Why in the second phase? Anywhere there's people... And they are everywhere, so should be now.

What fools are running this country?

What Username Guidelines · 06-05-2020 02:04PM

VonLuck wrote: »

In an ideal world masks are a great idea, but the reality is that people will inadvertently touch their face whilst wearing them.

Lets say you have the virus and have been using a mask. You go home, put the mask to one side then pick it up again the next day and go to the shop. You have just touched a mask with a huge viral load and now you are pottering about touching a lot of things in the shop.

The other instance is that you are not infected and are wearing a mask. You go around a shop and are touching a lot of different objects. Then you have an itch on your face because of how the mask sits, or maybe the mask is a little bit uncomfortable and you adjust it. You have potentially gotten the virus on your face now.

I'm not saying everyone will do this, but people instinctively do things like this and only realise after the fact "oh crap, I shouldn't have done that"!

Maybe the risk associated with people touching their face or spreading the viral load from touching masks and then objects is much lower than not wearing a mask at all, but I have yet to see a definitive study on that.

Even if that is the case, it doesnt matter that they touch the mask, without the mask they're breathing out droplets anyway, and will probably have touched their face or have virus on their hands anyway. It's still risky, but masks reduce the risk significantly if worn by all.

It should still be drilled into people how important it is to wash hands as well.

Away With The Fairies · 06-05-2020 02:17PM

Yes: valved

VonLuck wrote: »

In an ideal world masks are a great idea, but the reality is that people will inadvertently touch their face whilst wearing them.

Lets say you have the virus and have been using a mask. You go home, put the mask to one side then pick it up again the next day and go to the shop. You have just touched a mask with a huge viral load and now you are pottering about touching a lot of things in the shop.

The other instance is that you are not infected and are wearing a mask. You go around a shop and are touching a lot of different objects. Then you have an itch on your face because of how the mask sits, or maybe the mask is a little bit uncomfortable and you adjust it. You have potentially gotten the virus on your face now.

I'm not saying everyone will do this, but people instinctively do things like this and only realise after the fact "oh crap, I shouldn't have done that"!

Maybe the risk associated with people touching their face or spreading the viral load from touching masks and then objects is much lower than not wearing a mask at all, but I have yet to see a definitive study on that.

Why can't people wear masks now around their homes and get the feeling of what it's like to have a mask on... Instead of going out to the shops and touching themselves for the first time.

is_that_so · 06-05-2020 02:20PM

No: other

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-cut-advice-on-masks-from-its-roadmap-39184465.html

Paywalled but the preview is enough to kill hope. They should really be recommending them now, not when restrictions are lifted. It would put a massive dent in contagion in supermarkets seeing as they're pretty much the only places officially open right now. It makes so much sense.

What contagion in supermarkets? Feeling left out now I didn't catch it!

krissovo · 06-05-2020 02:21PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Why can't people wear masks now around their homes and get the feeling of what it's like to have a mask on... Instead of going out to the shops and touching themselves for the first time.

Because that is sensible, most are losing that ability.

mulbot · 06-05-2020 02:21PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Why can't people wear masks now around their homes and get the feeling of what it's like to have a mask on... Instead of going out to the shops and touching themselves for the first time.

I do this with condoms

is_that_so · 06-05-2020 02:23PM

No: other

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Wtf?

Their advice was face coverings for the second phase??? Why in the second phase? Anywhere there's people... And they are everywhere, so should be now.

What fools are running this country?

It's advice not a requirement . As Harris has said you can make an informed decision. Gotta ask here though are you seriously going to walk around with a mask on your face until a vaccine is found?

is_that_so · 06-05-2020 02:25PM

No: other

krissovo wrote: »

Because that is sensible, most are losing that ability.

Or most don't share that dread fear of something that won't do anything much to them.

Wibbs · 06-05-2020 02:26PM

Yes: other

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-cut-advice-on-masks-from-its-roadmap-39184465.html

Paywalled but the preview is enough to kill hope. They should really be recommending them now, not when restrictions are lifted. It would put a massive dent in contagion in supermarkets seeing as they're pretty much the only places officially open right now. It makes so much sense.

Sense? With the calibre of mediocre muppets we have in charge? Just add this to the list of screwups and delays in our handling of this. Though it beggars belief that they are so hellbent on removing masks from the equation now when even the anti mask nations have done an about turn regarding them. Other than Sweden I can't think of another EU nation that isn't mandating them for at least some situations like public transport? It's mad, the Irish authorities finally pluck up the courage to have an independent thought and it's a retarded one. Figures.

Like I reckoned earlier they'll accept three to four thousand dead and claim success because we predicted it could have been much higher, blah blah. Sure aren't we great.

stephenjmcd · 06-05-2020 02:31PM

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-cut-advice-on-masks-from-its-roadmap-39184465.html

Paywalled but the preview is enough to kill hope. They should really be recommending them now, not when restrictions are lifted. It would put a massive dent in contagion in supermarkets seeing as they're pretty much the only places officially open right now. It makes so much sense.

Heres the article for you. I've only copied in the face coverings part. The rest references the article yesterday regarding the over 70s advice being altered etc.

Public health advice on face coverings was removed from the Government's roadmap for reopening the country.

The National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) recommended publishing guidelines for "wearing face coverings in the community" by the second phase of the plan, on June 8.

However, this recommendation was deleted from the final version of the Government's 'Roadmap for Reopening Society and the Economy'.

The Government's roadmap says any decision on face coverings would be "based on guidance".

In phase one, starting on May 18, Nphet advised that the Government should "develop guidance for wearing of face coverings in the community and has regard to the need for medical grade masks by healthcare workers".

This was also removed from the publicised version of the plan.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has suggested the public may be asked to wear face coverings to help stop the spread of the virus.

There are concerns that a recommendation on face coverings may result in panic buying and could lead to fewer masks being available for frontline health workers.

Health officials are working on guidelines and these will be published in the coming weeks.

Wibbs · 06-05-2020 02:31PM

Yes: other

is_that_so wrote: »

Gotta ask here though are you seriously going to walk around with a mask on your face until a vaccine is found?

In crowded indoor public spaces? Why not? It doesn't seem to trouble those nations that have done significantly better than us in both much lower numbers of dead and their country reopening, while we're still in lockdown.

is_that_so wrote: »

Or most don't share that dread fear of something that won't do anything much to them.

Let me guess, you're another one of these open up now!/Economy/herd immunity/it won't kill me so... types?

Away With The Fairies · 06-05-2020 02:34PM

Yes: valved

is_that_so wrote: »

It's advice not a requirement . As Harris has said you can make an informed decision. Gotta ask here though are you seriously going to walk around with a mask on your face until a vaccine is found?

Alot of people has already said that they are waiting for HSE to tell them. Even going by this poll here, it actually got the most votes... That's not an informed decision waiting for someone else to tell you to wear masks... And these experts are still saying masks for the sick... Just one thing about that... Asymptomatic cases... And people still can't make a decision for themselves?

Wibbs · 06-05-2020 02:34PM

Yes: other

stephenjmcd wrote: »

There are concerns that a recommendation on face coverings may result in panic buying and could lead to fewer masks being available for frontline health workers.

Oh FFS, they're not still banging that old drum are they? We've already spent over 200 million euro on PPE for health workers. None of that PPE is in the public domain so the public can't buy them. You can buy masks in shops and pharmacies and online already. Homemade masks are a big option. No other nation is still peddling this as an excuse. Even the Americans who were pushing this in a big way have rolled right back on it.

is_that_so · 06-05-2020 02:38PM

No: other

Wibbs wrote: »

In crowded indoor public spaces? Why not? It doesn't seem to trouble those nations that have done significantly better than us in both much lower numbers of dead and their country reopening, while we're still in lockdown.

What did what when is still not fully clear and masks would always have been used in conjunction with a wide range of other measures.

Let me guess, you're another one of these open up now!/Economy/herd immunity/it won't kill me so... types?

Not remotely. I favour caution but not extreme extended paranoia. This thing is not going to be lurking around the corner for the next decade or more. Judging by the very few I see wearing masks I don't think I am anyway alone. There is room in the world for both sets of opinions and choices.

is_that_so · 06-05-2020 02:43PM

No: other

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Alot of people has already said that they are waiting for HSE to tell them. Even going by this poll here, it actually got the most votes... That's not an informed decision waiting for someone else to tell you to wear masks... And these experts are still saying masks for the sick... Just one thing about that... Asymptomatic cases... And people still can't make a decision for themselves?

Experts, I've some to realise during this have their own agendas. Mostly they have aligned with extremely vital public health matters but there is also a level of alarmism there too, which is not at all useful. Our "experts" are not inclined towards mandatory so it will be a choice.

Wibbs · 06-05-2020 02:43PM

Yes: other

is_that_so wrote: »

. Judging by the very few I see wearing masks I don't think I am anyway alone. There is room in the world for both sets of opinions and choices.

Not in a pandemic there isn't. You might have an opinion on social distancing/hand washing/covering your nose and mouth being useless, so choose not to bother but in doing so you endanger others. That's a selfish idiocy. Then again there are a lot of selfish idiots out there.

Wibbs · 06-05-2020 02:45PM

Yes: other

is_that_so wrote: »

Experts, I've some to realise during this have their own agendas. Mostly they have aligned with extremely vital public health matters but there is also a level of alarmism there too, which is not at all useful. Our "experts" are not inclined towards mandatory so it will be a choice.

Sadly our "experts" have proven to be complete fucking idiots more than once during this crisis.

Away With The Fairies · 06-05-2020 02:49PM

Yes: valved

is_that_so wrote: »

Experts, I've some to realise during this have their own agendas. Mostly they have aligned with extremely vital public health matters but there is also a level of alarmism there too, which is not at all useful. Our "experts" are not inclined towards mandatory so it will be a choice.

A choice to infect others?

is_that_so · 06-05-2020 02:50PM

No: other

Wibbs wrote: »

Not in a pandemic there isn't. You might have an opinion on social distancing/hand washing/covering your nose and mouth being useless, so choose not to bother but in doing so you endanger others. That's a selfish idiocy. Then again there are a lot of selfish idiots out there.

Of course there are and of course you're always right. Just a fact of life, innit?

Masks

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