Relaxation of restrictions Part II

drunkmonkey · 01-05-2020 02:19PM

boring accountant wrote: »

Tell that to the Gardaí outside my estate every other day.

Ask yourself what would NWA say...

tobefrank321 · 01-05-2020 02:21PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

OK I take your point

Majority of other countries have plans in place though

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1135935/

Portugal should have less ICU capacity than us

Our ICU capacity due to COVID is 103 of the 312 beds we originally had

Apparently we should now have 800+ beds

Even considering non COVID ICU cases that Shoukd be a good buffer

ICU Ventilators are not even viewed as always the best way to deal with severe cases anymore and in many cases exacerbate the situation.

A number of hospitals in the UK and US are now using Nasal canula oxygenation as an alternative. Likely cheaper and easier to use than ventilators.

eg this Chicago hospital.

https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/uchicago-medicine-doctors-see-truly-remarkable-success-using-ventilator-alternatives-to-treat-covid19

JPCN1 · 01-05-2020 02:26PM

nelly17 wrote: »

The Meeting with NPHET is 3pm so Leo will probably be on the 6 one news - hes due on the Late Late tonight also

Should have realised he'd be on the Late Late, he does love the limelight.

Will scold us again?

Prefer him to explain why we had one of the lowest ICU capacities in the EU at the outset of this...

Maybe how he couldn't pay a dignified wage to the army and other frontline workers but now can throw 115 million a month for empty private hospitals.

How is he going to sort out the waiting lists which will have grown hugely over the period..

Trivial stuff like that.

I guess it'll be more Churchillian rhetoric and a bit of Heaney.

Penfailed · 01-05-2020 02:28PM

boring accountant wrote: »

Tell that to the Gardaí outside my estate every other day.

Why...what are they doing/saying?

easypazz · 01-05-2020 02:28PM

gozunda wrote: »

So we are just to give up and surrender yes?

How many times has it been explained to you that nobody is saying this.

You should learn to read and try to understand other peoples viewpoints before constantly throwing your toys out of your pram.

almostover · 01-05-2020 02:28PM

Roanmore wrote: »

The one thing that annoys me here is people saying I'm going to listen to the medical experts over you.

A medical expert messed up my wife's surgery and left her with permanent nerve damage.
A medical expert presided over the Cervical Check controversy.
A medical expert presided over Hep C scandal.
A medical expert presided over the symphysiotomy scandal
Medical experts are presiding over the trolley numbers.

Yes of course listen to Medical experts, take on board what they say but this blind allegiance and look down attitude of some to people who question medical experts is nauseating and then when somebody is questioned they pull out the "dead relative" card.

Would you believe that medical experts are also humans and not infallible? We follow their guidance as they have extensive training and vast experience in the field of medical science which most of us do not. Yes, they make mistakes and yes they should be open to challenge but in general it is a good approach if the general public follow their health advice. Their job is a hard enough one without a cohort of society trying to undermine them at every chance they get. It's easy hurl from the ditch!

RugbyLad11 · 01-05-2020 02:37PM

gozunda wrote: »

As was pointed our previously- its just as well a lot of just 'live with it' brigade weren't around during ww2.

So we are just to give up and surrender yes?

No restrictions and if someones dies of the disease tough titty?

Glad I dont live in your world ...

Look around you, most of the counties around the world are beginning to open up.

You can stay locked inside your room for the next few years while the rest of us get on with life.

You compare it with ww2 but lad you would've not lasting a day back day. In ww2 people just got on with life and were sent to battlefield were they knew they mostly likely would never return

mandrake04 · 01-05-2020 02:38PM

snotboogie wrote: »

and have thousands of people policing the hundreds of border crossings with the North? No more entering Ireland at all for the foreseeable future?

Like I say its not going happen, you can only take the edge off but the numbers are neither going up or down just constant. Thats the way it is now.

RugbyLad11 · 01-05-2020 02:39PM

JPCN1 wrote: »

Should have realised he'd be on the Late Late, he does love the limelight.

Will scold us again?

Prefer him to explain why we had one of the lowest ICU capacities in the EU at the outset of this...

Maybe how he couldn't pay a dignified wage to the army and other frontline workers but now can throw 115 million a month for empty private hospitals.

How is he going to sort out the waiting lists which will have grown hugely over the period..

Trivial stuff like that.

I guess it'll be more Churchillian rhetoric and a bit of Heaney.

I'm expecting the announcement tonight to be bad so he will be on the late late show to try win the public over

briany · 01-05-2020 02:45PM

Roanmore wrote: »

The one thing that annoys me here is people saying I'm going to listen to the medical experts over you.

A medical expert messed up my wife's surgery and left her with permanent nerve damage.
A medical expert presided over the Cervical Check controversy.
A medical expert presided over Hep C scandal.
A medical expert presided over the symphysiotomy scandal
Medical experts are presiding over the trolley numbers.

Yes of course listen to Medical experts, take on board what they say but this blind allegiance and look down attitude of some to people who question medical experts is nauseating and then when somebody is questioned they pull out the "dead relative" card.

Medical experts. The plural is the thing, here. Pay attention to what the lasting consensus is in the medical community. You can cite the failures of individuals belonging to any group to undermine trust in it, so I don't really take it as an argument.

Also, if you're going to take negative individual examples, there must be positive individual examples to demonstrate wisdom and ability. I'm sure there are plenty of medical experts to be thanked for saving lives over these past two months.

tobefrank321 · 01-05-2020 02:55PM

gozunda wrote: »

I'd disagree. Never took you for a Boris fan tbh. But no matter. If the hat fits then wear it.

The analogy is closest to home with a small self serving number of individuals suggesting we should throw certain categories of people under the bus and give up even trying to control the rate of infection and stopping the health services been overwhelmed. And yes the analogy stands - i reckon the same would have been cheering on the Vichy republic.

But to remind those who've forgotten again - it's not just the HSE and Ireland. This is a global problem and thankfully not one to be decided by self serving idiots.

I'm not sure why you keep misrepresenting what people are saying or how you are allowed to do so.

No-one here has said anything about throwing anyone under the bus. Most people have said nursing and care homes need to be targeted with better measures such as far better PPE, removing positive cases immediately and isolating them in a centre similar to City West, banning the movement of care staff between facilities and isolating care staff from the rest of the community as much as possible. This will be costly but worth it far more than sticking 1 million people on the dole to deal with a very concentrated issue in care homes. Others will have cocoon too.

Sticking 1 million on the dole is not the answer. A short term lockdown was a good idea to give us time to come up with a better more sustainable long term plan and that long term plan should not include a highly generalised lockdown.

As for your WW2 analogies they are tiresome at this stage. But if you do want to use one, try this - If American, British and Russian soldiers, decided to sit at home and listen to the radio rather than go out an fight and confront the enemy, where would we be now?

The front line in this "war" is nursing homes, care homes and those with underlying conditions. These people need to be targeted for protection. That hasn't happened. And yes they have been thrown under the bus by a government who are more interested in stopping people going about their daily business than specifically helping those most at risk.

Thousands of gardai to patrol checkpoints. 200 staff sent out to nursing homes in crisis. Says it all.

na1 · 01-05-2020 02:57PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

I'm expecting the announcement tonight to be bad so he will be on the late late show to try win the public over

I'm bit out of the loop, so what's the story with stay-at-home until 5th of May rule? Is it going to be announced today? should it be published on gov.ie or any other resource?

Juwwi · 01-05-2020 02:59PM

na1 wrote: »

I'm bit out of the loop, so what's the story with stay-at-home until 5th of May rule? Is it going to be announced today? should it be published on gov.ie or any other resource?

They misled us all ,, they meant 5th of May 2021 .
This evening leo is doing another announcement

sterz · 01-05-2020 03:06PM

Where did you see it'll be at 6:30?

gozunda · 01-05-2020 03:07PM

Roanmore wrote: »

The one thing that annoys me here is people saying I'm going to listen to the medical experts over you.

A medical expert messed up my wife's surgery and left her with permanent nerve damage.
A medical expert presided over the Cervical Check controversy.
A medical expert presided over Hep C scandal.
A medical expert presided over the symphysiotomy scandal
Medical experts are presiding over the trolley numbers.

Yes of course listen to Medical experts, take on board what they say but this blind allegiance and look down attitude of some to people who question medical experts is nauseating and then when somebody is questioned they pull out the "dead relative" card.

So it's better to listen / take the opinion of to some random 'expert' on boards then? Right you are ...

Btw dont like to point this out and I dont disbelieve anything you said for a minute but you yourself just pulled a 'sick relative' card.

Yeah medical experts sometimes get things wrong and yes they can be questioned. That said it's not 'blind allegience' to take evidence based information over someones rantings to be fair.

cajonlardo · 01-05-2020 03:10PM

boring accountant wrote: »

Tell that to the Gardaí outside my estate every other day.

Practise both Norn Ireland and Traveller accents.

Whichever one you are better at, use it to answer the Gardai and you'll be grand.

Juwwi · 01-05-2020 03:11PM

sterz wrote: »

Where did you see it'll be at 6:30?

Apologies I read earlier that it was 6:30

Just double checked and now it's saying expected to be sometime between 19:00 and 21:00 on Dublin live news site

na1 · 01-05-2020 03:11PM

Juwwi wrote: »

They misled us all ,, they meant 5th of May 2021 .
Tonight at 6:30pm leo doing another announcement

I bet it would be:
More services/businesses to start working again, i.e. go back to work you lazy ejits, but stay at home the rest of the time! Only leave your house for work or to grab some food. Some sort of a labor camp.

Penfailed · 01-05-2020 03:13PM

easypazz wrote: »

You should learn to read and try to understand other peoples viewpoints before constantly throwing your toys out of your pram.

Preach!

In fairness, I reckon Easypazz's (I've just realised that I've been typing your username wrong in previous posts...apologies) viewpoint and my viewpoint are really not that far away from each other. However, I choose not to run the government and the HSE down at every opportunity.
To the best of my knowledge, every country that has nursing/care homes are having problems with infection control in them. There would have been a crisis in them irrespective of what the HSE did unless you operate them in a vacuum with the carers, cleaners and caterers staying onsite around the clock and no visitors unless for food deliveries.
I'm of the opinion that it's time that restrictions are relaxed somewhat. If they stay as they are, I'll follow them as I have been doing. I'll not be posting opinions such as, "the lockdown is over either way on the 5th." That's somewhat wreckless as other (impressionable) people reading it may be swung into thinking that it's okay to flout the regulations.
There's a middle ground that the vast majority of people posting fall into. The posting style would make you think that it's polarised views one way or the other (open everything up vs. lock everything down). I don't think this is the case. Belittling people's opinions doesn't do anyone any favours.

Cool rant?

Mental Mickey · 01-05-2020 03:14PM

Juwwi wrote: »

Apologies I read it earlier that it was 6:30

Just double checked and now it's saying expected to be sometime between 19:00 and 21:00 on Dublin live news site

Source?

rusty the athlete · 01-05-2020 03:14PM

gozunda wrote: »

So it's better to listen / take the opinion of to some random 'expert' on boards then? Right you are ...

I suppose if an expert told you to put your head in the fire you would blindly and without question or any kind of critical thought go and do it. Try common sense for a change, it works wonders.

Juwwi · 01-05-2020 03:20PM

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Source?

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/what-time-leo-varadkar-make-18184677

Penfailed · 01-05-2020 03:34PM

rusty the athlete wrote: »

I suppose if an expert told you to put your head in the fire you would blindly and without question or any kind of critical thought go and do it. Try common sense for a change, it works wonders.

That reads like something my mother would have said. Yet people are criticising Leo for speaking to everyone like children...

gozunda · 01-05-2020 03:34PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'm not sure why you keep misrepresenting what people are saying or how you are allowed to do so.
No-one here has said anything about throwing anyone under the bus. Most people have said nursing and care homes need to be targeted with better measures such as far better PPE, removing positive cases immediately and isolating them in a centre similar to City West, banning the movement of care staff between facilities and isolating care staff from the rest of the community as much as possible. This will be costly but worth it far more than sticking 1 million people on the dole to deal with a very concentrated issue in care homes. Others will have cocoon too.Sticking 1 million on the dole is not the answer. A short term lockdown was a good idea to give us time to come up with a better more sustainable long term plan and that long term plan should not include a highly generalised lockdown. As for your WW2 analogies they are tiresome at this stage. But if you do want to use one, try this - If American, British and Russian soldiers, decided to sit at home and listen to the radio rather than go out an fight and confront the enemy, where would we be now?The front line in this "war" is nursing homes, care homes and those with underlying conditions. These people need to be targeted for protection. That hasn't happened. And yes they have been thrown under the bus by a government who are more interested in stopping people going about their daily business than specifically helping those most at risk. Thousands of gardai to patrol checkpoints. 200 staff sent out to nursing homes in crisis. Says it all.

So you personally get to determine if someone can comment now is it? Of course you do. Use the ignore list if the truth bothers you do much.

Yes a small number of posters have suggested throwing certain categories of people under the bus. That has already been detailed many times. I'm not the only one to point that out btw.

And again to reiterate - the crisis with nursing homes is global. With the issue being that such settings sadly do not allow cocooning and self isolation.

Yes there needs to be drastic action but that does not negate the need for the Gardai and other essential personnel to do their jobs as well

Yes the restrictions have had a huge impact on the economy. Sweden doesn't have such restrictions and is also experiencing a huge economic downturn because of the pandemic. No there are no winners. Many other countries are in the same boat. It is not soley sn 'Irish' problem.

Btw I really dont care what you find 'tiresome'.
The analogy stands with those who seem to find certain portions of the population expendable and on 'borrowed time'. That has happened before. Ww2 is a good example imo.

But yes if some of the 'we have to live with it brigade' got their way - it is evident that there would be few of any restrictions with a corresponding increase number of infections and the health service bring overwhelmed.

Of interest the soldiers in this pandemic are the frontline medical and other staff whether Irish, American, British and Russian. And no they dont get to stay 'at home'

And that's why such restrictions are necessary. Until the death rate and increasing amount of infection start to stabilise - then those restrictions are likely to stay in place.

Tbh not at you in particular but its really unbelievable the small number of people who apparently need exact times and dates as to when the restrictions will be lifted. Tbh It's like dealing with kids in the back of the car - who keep screaming they need to know "are we there yet" without any idea of what they are asking or that the answer cannot be set in stone at this point in time..

Naos · 01-05-2020 03:41PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Looking at this graph, Sweden must be absolutely ****ed. They will have 100k deaths going by this graph and the models the Irish government is using.

We have about 4x their population density as well as other factors, social customs being one.

Kermit.de.frog · 01-05-2020 03:45PM

I wonder what movie will be quoted from this time

gozunda · 01-05-2020 03:48PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Look around you, most of the counties around the world are beginning to open up.You can stay locked inside your room for the next few years while the rest of us get on with life.You compare it with ww2 but lad you would've not lasting a day back day. In ww2 people just got on with life and were sent to battlefield were they knew they mostly likely would never return

The difference is that most countries 'opening up" now especially in Europe had much stricter restrictions than anything here. That and the fact that the outbreak here was later than in most other countries.

It has been made quite clear the restrictions will be removed over time. But the screamers appently want it NOW. So no I'm not sitting inside my room but I'd suggest you get out of the basement and see the light for a change.

Btw just to set you on the right track- it's not a comparison with WW2 and has nothing to do with 'lasting a day' during that war. For your information those who stayed at home lived under huge restrictions for years and got on with it without constant bitching.

The analogy however has a lot to do as a comparison with a very small number of individuals who seem to believe part of the population is expendable.

Sorry if some dont like being pointed out.

drunkmonkey · 01-05-2020 03:49PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I wonder what movie will be quoted from this time

Probably Schindler's list "Für Ihre Sicherheit"

uli84 · 01-05-2020 03:52PM

gozunda wrote: »

The difference is that most countries 'opening up" now especially in Europe had much stricter restrictions

That’s unfortunately not true

robbiezero · 01-05-2020 03:57PM

gozunda wrote: »

The difference is that most countries 'opening up" now especially in Europe had much stricter restrictions than anything here. That and the fact that the outbreak here was later than in most other countries.

It has been made quite clear the restrictions will be removed over time. But the screamers appently want it NOW. So no I'm not sitting inside my room but I'd suggest you get out of the basement and see the light for a change.

Btw just to set you on the right track- it's not a comparison with WW2 and has nothing to do with 'lasting a day' during that war. For your information those who stayed at home lived under huge restrictions for years and got on with it without constant bitching.

The analogy however has a lot to do as a comparison with a very small number of individuals who seem to believe part of the population is expendable.

Sorry if some dont like being pointed out.

Link to any posts declaring part of the population expendable?

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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