Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Gemma1982 · 29-04-2020 11:36AM

Looking at the various newspaper reports, I am seeing very little about childcare facilities reopening. My three children would normally be in a crèche. At the moment, we are trying to work full time from home while looking after them. With a five, three and one year old, this is really difficult and with no end in sight, getting worse by the day. Do people think crèches are likely to be treated the same way as primary schools in terms of reopening?

never_mind · 29-04-2020 11:36AM

cython wrote: »

Was going to say exactly this. It's beyond frustrating to hear such vague rationales as "not good enough" without ever being told what "good enough" might look like. But if they even provided a ballpark of what might be required from the public then it would be more difficult to hide behind this kind of excuse when the bolstering measures (testing, etc.) from the state are not realised in time.

One more post until 4,000. Congrats!!!

stephenjmcd · 29-04-2020 11:37AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

People are talking here as if the Irish government has some different policy from other places like Poland. It does not, it has an equal willingness to reopen things but it has different data. Poland has half the deaths of Ireland with 7 times the population and only half the number of new cases at present. We are where we are, we cannot wish we were somewhere else and we just have to get on with it and not make any more mistakes.

Issuing a plan is fine but they need to identify the data that will be needed to justify each step.

I dont dispute that, but the point is we've been told for the last 2 weeks its suppressed in the community, main issue is nursing homes and long term care settings, the CMO on the late late saying he was very optimistic about the 5th, but now that's changed, so either they aren't presenting us all the data or dont have a plan.

We'll see come Friday

iamwhoiam · 29-04-2020 11:38AM

This is an interesting find

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/swiss-elderly-told-they-can-hug-children-who-are-under-10-as-theyre-not-spreaders-39166432.html

seamus · 29-04-2020 11:40AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Does sound like Leo is gearing you all up for some bad news....

I don't think so. I think they're trying to avoid any hint that restrictions will be lifted, so that people stick with it until an official announcement.

Could also be the case that the medical advice is that in the absence of a proper cross-border plan, that we should stay in lockdown as long as the UK does.

But one could imagine the impact of saying that!

Thelonious Monk · 29-04-2020 11:41AM

jonnny68 wrote: »

People from up north can come over the border and go on day trips here without the garda doing anything,Bulgarian fruit pickers can travel on a packed plane to come into this country to pick strawberry's, so if Leo and co think that people are going to remain under lockdown and this 2km restrictions then they'll be sorely mistaken.

I don't think you represent the views of everyone, most people will abide by the rules as they have in every other country.

hmmm · 29-04-2020 11:42AM

This is a great article in the Irish Times today

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/r%C3%B3is%C3%ADn-ingle-i-m-an-optimist-but-we-need-to-confront-the-brutal-realities-1.4238932

"We won’t be out by May 5th. We need to confront the reality, what holocaust survivor Viktor Frankl called “tragic optimism”.

We need to train ourself to hold both things close: the hope that we will indeed prevail and the harsh, brutal reality of all the awfulness and uncertainty we’re facing. It’s liberating."

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 29-04-2020 11:45AM

seamus wrote: »

I don't think so. I think they're trying to avoid any hint that restrictions will be lifted, so that people stick with it until an official announcement.

Could also be the case that the medical advice is that in the absence of a proper cross-border plan, that we should stay in lockdown as long as the UK does.

But one could imagine the impact of saying that!

Not sure - if they were to say no easing of restriction for another two weeks (or even one), I think they'd fear a "**** this" attitude and people would start easing back into their own lives, with reason. By this I mean, moving otusdie of the 2km area but still distancing.

I don't think the border argument will hold as long as the UK don't have a roadmap either.

ELM327 · 29-04-2020 11:45AM

Great article indeed.
I'd heard that quote before but it seems even truer here. Those generations fought a war. We're being asked to watch netflix and chill, and we can't even handle that it seems!!

ixoy · 29-04-2020 11:47AM

ELM327 wrote: »

Great article indeed.
I'd heard that quote before but it seems even truer here. Those generations fought a war. We're being asked to watch netflix and chill, and we can't even handle that it seems!!

That "Netflix and chill" flippant point still going? Maybe, just maybe, there's more reasons people are objecting to it. Such as the ones that have been outlined here hundreds of times.

growleaves · 29-04-2020 11:48AM

never_mind wrote: »

One more post until 4,000. Congrats!!!

Sorry but 4,000 posts are "not good enough".

ELM327 · 29-04-2020 11:50AM

ixoy wrote: »

That "Netflix and chill" flippant point still going? Maybe, just maybe, there's more reasons people are objecting to it. Such as the ones that have been outlined here hundreds of times.

Thread has gotten TLDR... care to outline?

ChikiChiki · 29-04-2020 11:52AM

ELM327 wrote: »

Thread has gotten TLDR... care to outline?

Family, friends.

Humans are not built for this level of restriction. Social creatures and all that.

Thelonious Monk · 29-04-2020 11:55AM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Family, friends.

Humans are not built for this level of restriction. Social creatures and all that.

Well could you relay this to the virus and kindly ask it to go away?
Humans aren't made for all kinds of things, war, famine, etc. But we persevere. We're hardly staying indoors for the fun of it.

Downlinz · 29-04-2020 11:55AM

road_high wrote: »

Sadly, I wouldn't doubt it. Was only saying to my ma the same thing last night- they'll extend to two weeks - and as the June bank holiday will be coming up "to be extra safe" we will extend beyond that. Then we will do another "review". All the while the economy is flushed down the toilet.

It's amazing how some people seem to think the lockdown is to blame for the economic problem and not the virus. :pac:

I don't think you guys have quite processed what trying to run a business would be like in a society of fear with staff dropping like flies for various reasons.
The manager of a nursing home was on radio 1 this morning explaining how 1/3rd of their regular staff were unavailable to work either because they have the virus, they're in a vulnerable group and need to cocoon or they live with someone cocooning. Imagine the kind of chaos that would ensue if that was the sort of picture every restaurant, hardware shop etc had to deal with.

Supermarkets have had to recruit a significant number of extra staff as well just to deal with it. It would be farcical to think small business could operate in that kind of environment.

ixoy · 29-04-2020 11:59AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well could you relay this to the virus and kindly ask it to go away?
Humans aren't made for all kinds of things, war, famine, etc. But we persevere. We're hardly staying indoors for the fun of it.

No but saying people should just "chill" is effectively saying they should just relax, take it easy. It's not acknowledging how tough it is as they're worried about how they're going to cope financially, mentally (not everyone is happy just to watch Netflix) and the longer term. You can't just "chill" in these circumstances.

Downlinz wrote: »

It's amazing how some people seem to think the lockdown is to blame for the economic problem and not the virus. :pac:

Actually our response to the virus most certainly impacts the economic problem.

growleaves · 29-04-2020 11:59AM

Well could you relay this to the virus and kindly ask it to go away?

Its been over-hyped and over-sold from day one and onwards continually. The lockdown is pointless and hasn't done anything except destroy the country's finances and small businesses.

Worldwide estimates of H1N1 were ~152-575 thousand, with 375,000 being the median. We have 211,000 (inflated) deaths now. And we’re on the down slope. Which will put us almost exactly in middle of H1N1.

Penfailed · 29-04-2020 12:00PM

road_high wrote: »

That’s how they operate- drip drip drip feed. Not even going to watch this rubbish Friday night, not worth wasting your time.

It's with good reason. Firstly, they have to do things bit by bit as things change and they can gauge what is required. Secondly, can you imagine what would have happened at the start if they'd told the country that they were going to be locked down for two months?

Thelonious Monk · 29-04-2020 12:00PM

ixoy wrote: »

No but saying people should just "chill" is effectively saying they should just relax, take it easy. It's not acknowledging how tough it is as they're worried about how they're going to cope financially, mentally (not everyone is happy just to watch Netflix) and the longer term. You can't just "chill" in these circumstances.

Actually our response to the virus most certainly impacts the economic problem.

Well the best thing to do is try to chill and not let anxiety take over, it wont help.

facehugger99 · 29-04-2020 12:01PM

Downlinz wrote: »

Supermarkets have had to recruit a significant number of extra staff as well just to deal with it. It would be farcical to think small business could operate in that kind of environment.

And yet every small business that is allowed to open, from petrol stations to corner shops, are managing to operate fine.

KrustyUCC · 29-04-2020 12:01PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I dont dispute that, but the point is we've been told for the last 2 weeks its suppressed in the community, main issue is nursing homes and long term care settings, the CMO on the late late saying he was very optimistic about the 5th, but now that's changed, so either they aren't presenting us all the data or dont have a plan.

We'll see come Friday

These two bonus weeks are a result of the mess in nursing homes etc and HSE not having sufficient testing capacity

Nothing to do with the public at large

The virus is very well suppressed in the community

The vast vast majority have done all that could be asked of them

Be very interesting how the government will try to spin this one

is_that_so · 29-04-2020 12:01PM

hmmm wrote: »

This is a great article in the Irish Times today

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/r%C3%B3is%C3%ADn-ingle-i-m-an-optimist-but-we-need-to-confront-the-brutal-realities-1.4238932

"We won’t be out by May 5th. We need to confront the reality, what holocaust survivor Viktor Frankl called “tragic optimism”.

We need to train ourself to hold both things close: the hope that we will indeed prevail and the harsh, brutal reality of all the awfulness and uncertainty we’re facing. It’s liberating."

OK, I'd take with a shipload of salt what a columnist who's been ranting every other day about the misery of this, has to say!

the kelt · 29-04-2020 12:01PM

cython wrote: »

Was going to say exactly this. It's beyond frustrating to hear such vague rationales as "not good enough" without ever being told what "good enough" might look like. But if they even provided a ballpark of what might be required from the public then it would be more difficult to hide behind this kind of excuse when the bolstering measures (testing, etc.) from the state are not realised in time.

The public have done their bit, thats the thing but were having a finger wagged at them telling them to behave or else. Over the past few days following a bit of kick back on that rhetoric the tune has changed slightly, as can be seen, people who dont follow like sheep realise thats a load of boll1x.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/dr-tony-holohan-insists-public-21942586

So what are the reasons?

Issues with nursing homes (no Nursing home rep on NPHET despite this being the biggest issue)?
PPE supplies?
Testing?

So more and more it seems we wont be easing restrictions because of failings at HSE and Government level mainly.

Personally speaking if thats the case then thats the case, if we need to hunker down for another couple of weeks to get over this because of failings at government and HSE level then fair enough.

But be honest about it and front up rather than thinly veiled digs at the general public whilst trying to deflect the blame from your own shortcomings.

Sure we would all like restrictions to be eased but if its not possible it isnt possible but what irks me most is the deflection and shifting of blame to the people who have for the most part (apart from the usuals) bought into this, thats a sh1thouse move imho.

So im looking forward to friday to see what comes out, at this stage i honestly dont expect anything other than keep going but lets hear why, but dont tell me to keep going in one breath whilst wagging your finger saying im to blame for this when your own shortcomings are blatantly obvious to anyone who opens their eyes.

easypazz · 29-04-2020 12:02PM

seamus wrote: »

I don't think so. I think they're trying to avoid any hint that restrictions will be lifted, so that people stick with it until an official announcement.

Agree 100%. He has said anything published in the media is nothing but speculation.

We have 6 days of figures until there needs to be a final announcement.

Only 229 new cases yesterday.

There are a few soft restrictions that can be eased from next week, like DIY stores and garden centres opening once strict measures are in place.

If anything these will reduce footfall in grocery stores as people are buying DIY and gardening stuff in these now.

growleaves · 29-04-2020 12:02PM

Supermarkets have had to recruit a significant number of extra staff as well just to deal with it. It would be farcical to think small business could operate in that kind of environment.

If that was true it wouldn't be necessary to forcibly shut them.

In truth, some businesses would be unable to operate or would need to re-organise. Many would be able to run. Some of those would see lost revenues.

is_that_so · 29-04-2020 12:03PM

growleaves wrote: »

Its been over-hyped and over-sold from day one and onwards continually. The lockdown is pointless and hasn't done anything except destroy the country's finances and small businesses.

Worldwide estimates of H1N1 were ~152-575 thousand, with 375,000 being the median. We have 211,000 (inflated) deaths now. And we’re on the down slope. Which will put us almost exactly in middle of H1N1.

What level of deaths would have worked for you, not to think this?

walshb · 29-04-2020 12:03PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

Very unhinged stuff. Just being confrontational for the sake of it.

Went out of her way to be so hostile and rude to what amounts to a complete stranger....

Very sad that any person has that hate inside them...

endacl · 29-04-2020 12:04PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

7. How many more people are going to die of cancer and other conditions as a result of this decision should they take it.
I know people waiting for vital tests, eg. colonoscopy, etc., none of these are being done. MADNESS.

Just on this last point.

I have personal knowledge of a person who started feeling really unwell (nausea/vomiting/other unpleasantness) about a month ago. His family contacted the GP two weeks ago. There was a phone consultation, whereupon the doctor decided it sounded serious enough for a visit. A physical exam resulted in an immediate ambulance to the Beacon (as a public patient) where tests revealed early stage bowel cancer. The following day he had surgery, and is doing really well. He'll be discharged tomorrow with follow up treatment to follow.

The world hasn't stopped turning. It's just turning slightly differently. If treatment is urgent it's being delivered.

Rodin · 29-04-2020 12:05PM

GolfNut33 wrote: »

If there aren't any sort of easing of restrictions the government will lose the compliance of a hell of a lot people.

People are starting to get angry and pissed off.

Angry and pissed off when they sit on their arses at home putting on weight while others do the fighting on the front line?

Should be given a tour of the ICUs around the country or made to log on to every webcammed funeral for a victim.

Some need a bit of perspective.

Charles Babbage · 29-04-2020 12:05PM

growleaves wrote: »

Its been over-hyped and over-sold from day one and onwards continually. The lockdown is pointless and hasn't done anything except destroy the country's finances and small businesses.

Worldwide estimates of H1N1 were ~152-575 thousand, with 375,000 being the median. We have 211,000 (inflated) deaths now. And we’re on the down slope. Which will put us almost exactly in middle of H1N1.

This is a fraudulent comparison, you are comparing estimated deaths of people most of whom were not testing in a lab for flu with deaths of people tested for Covid19. The actual number who died from Covid19 is much higher than this.

It is also nonsense because the Covid19 deaths were only so low because of the lockdown, without that millions would be dead, so you are using the success of the lockdown as a reason not to have it, which is truly bizarre.

Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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