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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

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Comments

  • #422
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Everyone needs to read that.
    Spiked would have some credibility if their front page wasn't littered with arguments about why lockdowns are unnecessary, lamenting the economic damage suggesting that some conspiracy theories might be valid.

    It's a far-right mouthpiece and nothing else. Anything it publishes is done with a specific agenda. In this case to try and convince people that not only should the lockdowns be dropped, but they were a mistake in the first place.

    That specific piece is the same old tired and rubbished arguments that "it's barely worse than the flu" have been online for weeks, only published without challenge.


  • #423
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    seamus wrote: »
    Spiked would have some credibility if their front page wasn't littered with arguments about why lockdowns are unnecessary, lamenting the economic damage suggesting that some conspiracy theories might be valid.

    It's a far-right mouthpiece and nothing else. Anything it publishes is done with a specific agenda. In this case to try and convince people that not only should the lockdowns be dropped, but they were a mistake in the first place.

    That specific piece is the same old tired and rubbished arguments that "it's barely worse than the flu" have been online for weeks, only published without challenge.

    It would seem that quite a few posters here are choosing to bury their heads in the sand and still believe this nonsense.


  • #424
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Everyone needs to read that.
    What a load of sh!t


  • #425
    Ms2011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,171 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    Polar101 wrote: »
    I wonder how dentists could open - it's going to be difficult to keep them closed for months, yet it's hard to think of any other profession that would be more at risk for Covid infections.

    They're not closed, I was there on Monday


  • #426
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    It would seem that quite a few posters here are choosing to bury their heads in the sand and still believe this nonsense.

    The original predictions from Dr. Neil Ferguson justifying the lockdown claimed covid would be deadlier than the Spanish Flu which killed 50 million people.

    Consistently posters on this site have floated mortality rates of 1-7% which they picked from the air, and which which would mean tens of millions dead at a low estimate.

    I don't believe it.

    Perhaps this coronavirus will go higher than a seasonal flu (650,000) into 1957 pandemic or Hong Kong flu pandemic territory (1-2 million). We shall see.


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  • #427
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Pitch n Putt wrote: »
    NPHET are running the country in reality and that’s a bad sign as conservatism on any lifting of restrictions is their approach

    We are asking the wrong people the wrong questions.

    It's like asking a legal person if there is a potential legal issue - the answer is always 'yes'.

    These 'experts' are inherently biased in their approach, everything is being viewed through a prism of reducing infection - who cares if society collapses due to measures implemented.


  • #428
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,252 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    It would seem that quite a few posters here are choosing to bury their heads in the sand and still believe this nonsense.

    What's "nonsense" is your asserton that people are suggesting that.

    But you continue to ignore the fact that the majority of people can live alongside this just fine with some safety measures - and that's exactly what needs to happen.

    Won't be much comfort sitting in lock down when you can't pay your bills and are suffering mentally from the stress and isolation but perfectly healthy.


  • #429
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    Strumms wrote: »
    Hmm yeah my initial impression was similar but like him or otherwise he’s under tremendous pressure, he must be working some hours... it’s an unprecedented position for any health minister to be in, he’s 33, got a family and if he is going to fûck up I’d rather it be blurting out some dodgy statistics but getting the big decisions right that will safeguard the health of the nation and its citizens... good luck to him, and everyone in this war.
    You should really listen to Callan's Kicks.

    Playing a blinder.

    I hope Covid 1 - 18 are eradicated. A friend* of mine made the same mistake in like... February and we had a good laugh about it.

    *my friend is not a health minister of a country


  • #430
    Tokyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,656 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Mod: @Cork Boy 53, @Merry Prankster - I'm pretty sure neither of you are mods of this forum, so quit it with the running commentary on another poster's history here. If you have an issue with specific posts, report them.


  • #431
    Multipass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    Ms2011 wrote: »
    They're not closed, I was there on Monday

    My sister just broke a tooth, and the dentist wont see her - she’s not in enough pain apparently.


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  • #432
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    Multipass wrote: »
    My sister just broke a tooth, and the dentist wont see her - she’s not in enough pain apparently.
    My mom is in considerable pain with two broken crowns that she should have gotten looked at ages ago... She's been cuccooning for months now. But she doesn't want to go herself because she's terrified about getting sick. It's hard to watch her pretend she's fine.


  • #433
    Merry Prankster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭Merry Prankster


    growleaves wrote: »
    The original predictions from Dr. Neil Ferguson justifying the lockdown claimed covid would be deadlier than the Spanish Flu which killed 50 million people.

    Consistently posters on this site have floated mortality rates of 1-7% which they picked from the air, and which which would mean tens of millions dead at a low estimate.

    I don't believe it.

    Perhaps this coronavirus go higher than a seasonal flu (650,000) into 1957 pandemic or Hong Kong flu pandemic territory (1-2 million). We shall see.

    The posters did not 'pick them from the air.' They based them on medical calculations based upon current understanding and data. It's a novel pathogen and a quickly evolving story. However, you seem to have pulled your own prediction from the air. Is yours based upon medical predictions, or is it shaped more by ideology?


  • #434
    Breezin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Breezin


    seamus wrote: »
    Spiked would have some credibility if their front page wasn't littered with arguments about why lockdowns are unnecessary, lamenting the economic damage suggesting that some conspiracy theories might be valid.

    It's a far-right mouthpiece and nothing else. Anything it publishes is done with a specific agenda. In this case to try and convince people that not only should the lockdowns be dropped, but they were a mistake in the first place.

    That specific piece is the same old tired and rubbished arguments that "it's barely worse than the flu" have been online for weeks, only published without challenge.

    I don't share that publication's world view, but the piece makes reasonable arguments and asks important questions that no one seems prepared to answer.

    And, by the way, you are living in dreamland if you think other publications don't have agendas.


  • #435
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    GazzaL wrote: »
    The daily increase of cars and vans on the road continues.

    Are you counting from the window of your flight John?


  • #436
    ongarite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,496 ✭✭✭ongarite


    My place of work is a lot busier this week than last 3 weeks.
    Car park is nearly full last few days with the trades back on site supporting and working as required.


  • #437
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    We are asking the wrong people the wrong questions.

    It's like asking a legal person if there is a potential legal issue - the answer is always 'yes'.

    These 'experts' are inherently biased in their approach, everything is being viewed through a prism of reducing infection - who cares if society collapses due to measures implemented.

    And economists would have no dog in this fight either? No biases at all?


  • #438
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,858 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    GazzaL wrote: »
    The daily increase of cars and vans on the road continues.

    Of course. Vast majority don’t want to be sitting at home doing nothing. Great to hear people are getting back to normal and using common sense. It’s a shame our state and authorities wouldn’t get onto the same page


  • #439
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    And economists would have no dog in this fight either? No biases at all?

    Of course they have.

    The Govt should be asking multiple experts for advice and plotting the best course of action.

    The problem now is we're asking one particular group for advice

    Ask a medical person what we need to do to eliminate the spread of the virus and they'll tell you to lockdown indefinitely.

    They aren't being asked what the economy and society will look like as a result of this - that's not the question they have been asked or are qualified to answer.

    The question has be be broader than 'how do we stop it?'

    The question should be 'what measures will give us the least-worst outcome for the most people?'

    We need more than medical professionals to answer that question.


  • #440
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    road_high wrote: »
    Of course. Vast majority don’t want to be sitting at home doing nothing. Great to hear people are getting back to normal and using common sense. It’s a shame our state and authorities wouldn’t get onto the same page

    Unless all these people are essential workers or are on essential journeys they are violating the current restrictions and could and should be prosecuted. Simple as that.


  • #441
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,858 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    Unless all these people are essential workers or are on essential journeys they are violating the current regulations and could and should be prosecuted. Simple as that.

    Lol :D. They probabaly are. When are you Lockdowners going to let it go?
    Maybe bring back public floggings and stocks for these "violations" too. I can picture someone like you first in line.


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  • #442
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    Unless all these people are essential workers or are on essential journeys they are violating the current restrictions and could and should be prosecuted. Simple as that.

    Smart employers can fit their business into the 'essential' definition with a bit of creativity.

    Employers should be providing their staff with a simple letter. Any checkpoint I've come across, the Guards have never looked at my letter, just waved me through when I mentioned I had one.


  • #443
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,839 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    road_high wrote: »
    Lol :D. They probabaly are. When are you Lockdowners going to let it go?
    Maybe bring back public floggings and stocks for these "violations" too. I can picture someone like you first in line.

    Bring back the guillotine


  • #444
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Merry Prankster wrote: »
    The posters did not 'pick them from the air.' They based them on medical calculations based upon current understanding and data. It's a novel pathogen and a quickly evolving story. However, you seem to have pulled your own prediction from the air. Is yours based upon medical predictions, or is it shaped more by ideology?


    The medical experts who made the original predictions which justified the lockdown - the Fauci-Birx team in the US and the Ferguson-Imperial team - have revised their estimates downward by many multiples.

    They have walked back their predictions to the range of tens of thousands.

    The boards commenters who gave out death rates which felt right to them - the highest I saw was 21% of the human race perishing, that's 1.6 billion people - were told by many others that initial death rates coming out of Lombardy were not normative for the whole world (or even for Italy). I posted links to epidemiologists who explained this in detail (which is all I can do, having no medical background myself) and received personal abuse.


  • #445
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    road_high wrote: »
    Lol :D. They probabaly are. When are you Lockdowners going to let it go?
    Maybe bring back public floggings and stocks for these "violations" too. I can picture someone like you first in line.

    Interesting suggestion from you. Many who have been on the receiving end of anti social behaviour would be of the opinion that this would be a very good idea.


  • #446
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Everyone needs to read that.

    "The World Health Organisation initially suggested that the case-fatality rate – the proportion of people diagnosed with the disease who die – would be 3.4 per cent. This is a very high number which would have caused a huge number of deaths. But as we have had gradually more and more data coming in, those percentages have been falling"

    As of 22 April, the Department of Health has confirmed 16,671 cases and 769 deaths, 4.6%.

    Are people actually reading this?


  • #447
    Supercell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,641 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    Anecdotal I know, when the lockdown started i could go out for a jog in my local park without having too many detours due to social distancing. Last week I decided to avoid it altogether as the place is full of people picnicing, kids on bikes everywhere etc so I changed to using the paths around the local area, was ok, very few people encountered and with a careful glance I could run on the road to get around them.

    This week that's gone too, the roads are far more busy, there are far more people on the paths walking around, its not safe or practical to run out on the road every 100 meters or so anymore no matter how cautious.

    I've taken to early morning runs, but the way things are headed those are going to have to get earlier and earlier. Not anywhere near normal volumes of people out and about but definitely to my mind far more than last week, which had more than the week before and so on.
    I don't see how social distancing is going to work for everyone in urban areas (not just the joggers!) once the restrictions are lifted.
    My wife tells me that in China that face masks are obligatory everywhere in public but there is no social distancing for this reason, they seem to have it under control now.
    https://www.loughlinstown.ie/

    Have a weather station?, why not join the Ireland Weather Network - http://irelandweather.eu/



  • #448
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    Pitch n Putt wrote: »
    Yes the lockdown is effectively over lots more people on the move and businesses opening up.

    This will be accelerated now after yesterday’s boo boo by Minister Harris.

    Who’s going to continue to take advice from the government when they don’t even have their facts right after two months of this.?

    NPHET are running the country in reality and that’s a bad sign as conservatism on any lifting of restrictions is their approach

    How can NPHET have the power to effectively implement a policy to pay frontline workers partners to stay at home with full pay to mind their children??

    The tail is wagging the dog now. Yes the government needs advice on the situation and probably someone to blame when there’s questions to be answered but at the end of the day governments should govern

    Fully agree with this.

    They are I'm certain excellent in their own field and by and large doing their job as well as they can in the middle of such an unprecedented crisis.

    However Tony Holohan, Cillian de Gascun, Prof Nolan etc are not elected leaders, they are medical professionals and academics who should be advising the government not running it.

    I don't think these press conferences every day should be happening either without any political input.


  • #449
    Breezin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Breezin


    Augeo wrote: »
    "The World Health Organisation initially suggested that the case-fatality rate – the proportion of people diagnosed with the disease who die – would be 3.4 per cent. This is a very high number which would have caused a huge number of deaths. But as we have had gradually more and more data coming in, those percentages have been falling"

    As of 22 April, the Department of Health has confirmed 16,671 cases and 769 deaths, 4.6%.

    Are people actually reading this?


    In the absence of mass testing in the community, that percentage is meaningless.


  • #450
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    road_high wrote: »
    Lol :D. They probabaly are. When are you Lockdowners going to let it go?
    Maybe bring back public floggings and stocks for these "violations" too. I can picture someone like you first in line.


    What a stupid comment, the law should be respected

    Other countries set an example of how to handle restrictions and their numbers are definitely looking better than ours


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  • #451
    Nermal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Epidemic models are a failure:
    https://issuesinsights.com/2020/04/18/after-repeated-failures-its-time-to-permanently-dump-epidemic-models/


This discussion has been closed.
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