How much is this all going to cost and who will pay for it ?

purifol0 wrote: »

"The establishment will first shore itself up, limiting the impact of austerity measures to itself and its outer defences, this will be widely supported by RTÉ and academics on the State payroll.

Public Sector pay and contracts will be ringfenced even if subject to wage cuts. There will be no reform of existing contracts, the overarching public good provisions in the Constitution already deployed in the crisis, will wither in this space because of Deep State power."

www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/eddie-hobbs-fasten-your-seatbelt-the-worst-is-yet-to-come-993618.html

That's wot Ed reckons will happen over here. Probably cos its what happened 10 year ago in the last recession.

Here take a gander:

For context this graph shows that even after "savage cuts" the public sector and wanker bankers actually made more money (and received increments as per their pay scales) the year after the crash, while the entire private sector saw take home pay slashed. Not shown is the private sector job losses, but I can give you the total pubSec job losses right now: ZERO.

Will history repeat?

It will only repeat if we allow it to

No idea how much it will cost. Its probably beyond figures i can comprehend. Who will pay probably the civil servants nurses etc working right now. CUTS.

nthclare wrote: »

I'm in the public sector myself and I'm hedging my bets I'll be on a 3 day week.
It's the only way for the present circumstances, and I'm on the lower end of the scale.
I'd be in the forestry and environmental side of it.
Looking after parklands etc.

I'd seriously have no issue with a 3 day week.
It should be right across the board including CEOs etc

Or else put it at a cut off point at 30,000 all inclusive manager's, supervisor s and the guy working as a porter on maybe 40,000 at the top of his pay scale.
There's a lot of people well below 30,000 in the public sector.

Probably a 3 day week will be fairer.

But more than likely the CEOs will hold onto their cushy number's and try to Shaft all around them.

Especially in the semi state's where there's a new regime of bringing in CEOs from other multinationals on a two or 3 year contract and fluff jobs at huge wages and trying to run a small company which is so top heavy that it's putting the company under strains.

Not mentioning any companies here, but it's well known in the sector.

Ah look the public sector is massive. Far far far too big for a tiny country with a small population. It employs almost 400,000 people! Many doing nothing useful at all. As soon as new payscales are announced we will see a huge amount of early retirements. And like the last time this happened, the desk jobs werent replaced because "the work" they did didnt matter one iota. They were killing time, but managers didnt care because the more employees they manage, the more power they have and the more they get to compare themselves to private sector counterparts who manage the same amount.



I mean cmon the fat at the top obviously needs to be cut, but you can go into a driving license centre today and watch the 20 nothing year old clerks physically POST documents to Cork because they dont "do" email.



The PS has yet to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, and by that I mean efficient use of IT to remove the need for uneccessary and unskilled labour. That means that state could quite easily shed a huge amount of workers, young ones that can either find private employment (good luck finding a clerical position in the private sector) or emmigrate.


Since no one leaves the public sector its just become a burgeoning liability and even a 3 day week wont plug the gap.



I mean no offence to you at all btw, but good God has this problem been in the works since Bertie skyrocketed PS pay before the last crash. And it wouldnt even be so mich of a pain point if the public actually got some use out of all the money we are taxed to fund the PS.


In the last two weeks ive seen my friends lose their jobs completely (construction) and a family member put on 4 day weeks thus negating the raise that they had just fought for just months before. Meanwhile the entire PS is on full pay.

touts wrote: »

No way Germany will let the ECB print money. Their Pension and investment funds can make too much profit off this.

I don't know what you mean by "print money" exactly?

Please note that the ECB has already been engaged in QE asset purchases since 2014.

More or less very month since 2014 the ECB has been creating new money to buy assets.

Here are the details:

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/implement/omt/html/index.en.html

MadYaker wrote: »

This is probably what will happen

Note that QE is already happening.

The ECB have been creating new money since 2014.

They use the new money to buy financial assets, mainly Govt bonds

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/implement/omt/html/index.en.html

APP net purchases, by programme
Between October 2014 and December 2018 the Eurosystem conducted net purchases of securities under one or more of the asset purchase programmes. During the net asset purchase phase, monthly purchase pace averaged:

€60 billion from March 2015 to March 2016
€80 billion from April 2016 to March 2017
€60 billion from April 2017 to December 2017
€30 billion from January 2018 to September 2018
€15 billion from October 2018 to December 2018

Blueshoe wrote: »

Of course. Public sector spending is out of control. There is no return on the money spent. Productivity and efficiency targets don't exist.

Privatise everything. Run for profit. Competition breeds innovation.
Take the climate crisis for example. Once it becomes profitable to go green the private sector will invest and develop technology to reach that goal.
If left to governments like everything else it turns into a public tax black hole. It's a step backwards

Correct. The best argument against paying tax is simply pointing out where the govt spend it. When the public cannot access the services they pay for its pretty galling. Think of the money sank into the HSE yet appoinments take years. Why? Because the staff only work office hours and the entire budget is taken up on payroll.

FVP3 wrote: »

Nobody has mentioned helicopter money. I'm not totally convinced by MMT etc but a short period of helicopter money might make sense.

If the CB handed newly-created money out to households, what would be the corresponding asset on the CB balance sheet?

FVP3 wrote: »

Thats a good idea, but a far cry from dismantling the entire public service. I would like the 70% of income to be permanent, and I don't think it would cost that much either, if limited to 6 months or so. Most people would try get a job in that time.

yeah and if we had a proper welfare system, this would have been in place already , so many countries doing along lines of wha you propose for this crisis and I am sure, many already have such a system in place...


No because that is not how tax works. Any chance you would even think of taxing the rich, no?

of course tax the rich more. The piss taking goes on right at the top and right at the bottom for the most part. Its easier to control it at the bottom though, of course it wouldnt be populist, so non of them would touch it with a barge poll! they need to get serious on land hoarding though etc, a proper site valuation tax, for a start!