How much is this all going to cost and who will pay for it ?

Eric Cartman · 12-04-2020 6:05pm #1

Varadkar has pledged no income tax increases to fund this, which means he's planning to introduce another tax or increase USC.

How much is this all expected to cost by the end and more importantly who will be hit to pay for it and how ?

Jim_Hodge · 12-04-2020 6:12pm

What do you suggest?

Come on, give us a hint of how we can save lives and cover the costs.

DM1983 · 12-04-2020 6:13pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Varadkar has pledged no income tax increases to fund this, which means he's planning to introduce another tax or increase USC.

How much is this all expected to cost by the end and more importantly who will be hit to pay for it and how ?

ECB will buy government bonds at 0% interest rate. Massive QE program coming. Should be ok in Europe and US. I worry about the rest of the world. Places like South Africa for example will find themselves in hyper inflation territory pretty quickly.

Blueshoe · 12-04-2020 6:13pm

The Eu can pay for it. Fire up the printing machine. Just don't tell countries outside the EU and pretend we are all getting hammered by austerity. Lodge the money into Paschal's account in the quiet

Eric Cartman · 12-04-2020 6:14pm

In theory china should pay for the lot , but we all know that won't happen. I would personally be a fan of cutting government spending. End the quangos, tell the double job civil servants to go home, break the union controls on our civil service and utilise the new working from home systems to cut costs and decentralise some staff.

Podge201 · 12-04-2020 6:16pm

How much will the Chinese charge us for a vaccine when they are finished rodding us for crap ppe?

Thelonious Monk · 12-04-2020 6:17pm

I would imagine we'll see more taxes, less spending on infrastructure etc. We'll all take a hit. Dems the breaks.

Sierra Oscar · 12-04-2020 6:17pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

In theory china should pay for the lot , but we all know that won't happen. I would personally be a fan of cutting government spending. End the quangos, tell the double job civil servants to go home, break the union controls on our civil service and utilise the new working from home systems to cut costs and decentralise some staff.

Didn't happen following the financial crisis (those measures alone wouldn't even cause a dent in the financial hole regardless) and won't happen this time.

Judging from the EU response to date, I don't think we will see any tax increases. In fact I think we will see a significant fiscal stimulus programme which could be coupled with tax cuts to get people spending.

The response to this won't come close to resembling the response to the financial crisis. Completely different causes and the key difference this time around is that it impacts on the entire EU - and most importantly, Germany.

Ubbquittious · 12-04-2020 6:24pm

Maybe a massive hike in import tariffs for stuff from China. People will pay it as they, now all addicted to alibalibabba and wish. At least while they wean themselves off it

Beasty · 12-04-2020 6:26pm

We will pay for it, as will our children, and our children's children

How much? Can't imagine it will be much less than €50bn in costs incurred and lost tax revenues, and it may be a lot more

Eric Cartman · 12-04-2020 6:28pm

Beasty wrote: »

We will pay for it, as will our children, and our children's children

How much? Can't imagine it will be much less than €50bn in costs incurred and lost tax revenues, and it may be a lot more

was I supposed to read that in the jebidiah Springfield museum guys voice, because I did and all I can say is

1) wheres the fife
2) gimme the fife

Blueshoe · 12-04-2020 6:29pm

Beasty wrote: »

We will pay for it, as will our children, and our children's children

How much? Can't imagine it will be much less than €50bn in costs incurred and lost tax revenues, and it may be a lot more

Add it to the pile. Sure the Us is trillions in debt yet they plow on no problem. Trump and those before him had no issue lowering taxes. National debt doesn't seem to worry America.

IAMAMORON · 12-04-2020 6:30pm

Hopefully Sinn Féin, they have promised to pay for everything else.

Eric Cartman · 12-04-2020 6:31pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Hopefully Sinn Féin, they have promised to pay for everything else.

I don't think slab Murphy and the northern bank robbers have enough to sort this one even.

Assetbacked · 12-04-2020 6:31pm

There is no scope to increase income tax and USC, given the government promised but failed to this the last 7 years. However, spending has increased hugley the past few years, particularly with respect to welfare and this should be low hanging fruit in the first instance. Other measures such as a more meaningful property tax combined with large scale housebuilding and purchasing assistance will kill two birds with one stone; providing desperately needed housing and revenue for the State.

punisher5112 · 12-04-2020 6:33pm

Say good bye to bus connects, 10 minutes darts etc...

As mentioned USC increase, wage cuts and certain perks in jobs and so on....

Carbon tax increase to offset and saving on the decrease in charge for electric and gas.

It ain't looking good the next few years.

arctictree · 12-04-2020 6:35pm

So we are just going to heap it on the national debt? God help us if interest rates rise.

Ubbquittious · 12-04-2020 6:37pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

There is no scope to increase income tax and USC, given the government promised but failed to this the last 7 years. However, spending has increased hugley the past few years, particularly with respect to welfare and this should be low hanging fruit in the first instance. Other measures such as a more meaningful property tax combined with large scale housebuilding and purchasing assistance will kill two birds with one stone; providing desperately needed housing and revenue for the State.

Fcuk the "more meaningful property tax". This means struggling to keep a roof over your head after you bought and paid for the damn house

ixoy · 12-04-2020 6:38pm

Easier wins:

* Pension age to raise again - It'll be something like 2030 so it'll be a long-term *play

* Third tax-rate band - This will be an easy win as it'll be on "high" earners.

* VAT rate increase on certain goods

* Property tax re-evaluated in some form

* Big cuts back on infrastructure - A lot of these are partially EU-funded anyway and the EU could likely no longer have the funds.

Unlikely to happen irrespective of potential savings:

* Any PS wage cuts - After the fury the last time, it's unlikely to happen again regardless of whether it should or not.

* Cuts to social welfare - Too many people out of work to cut this.

Still waters · 12-04-2020 6:39pm

Who's paying for it, well op if you work look in the mirror, if you're a lifelong burden on the state you can sit back and relax, we'll cover for you

Soulsun · 12-04-2020 6:40pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

The Eu can pay for it. Fire up the printing machine. Just don't tell countries outside the EU and pretend we are all getting hammered by austerity. Lodge the money into Paschal's account in the quiet

Love this idea

L1011 · 12-04-2020 6:40pm

ixoy wrote: »

* Big cuts back on infrastructure - A lot of these are partially EU-funded anyway and the EU could likely no longer have the funds.

Virtually nothing infra-wise is EU funded or has been for a decade.

Eric Cartman · 12-04-2020 6:40pm

ixoy wrote: »

Easier wins:

* Pension age to raise again - It'll be something like 2030 so it'll be a long-term *play

* Third tax-rate band - This will be an easy win as it'll be on "high" earners.

* VAT rate increase on certain goods

* Property tax re-evaluated in some form

* Big cuts back on infrastructure - A lot of these are partially EU-funded anyway and the EU could likely no longer have the funds.

Unlikely to happen irrespective of potential savings:

* Any PS wage cuts - After the fury the last time, it's unlikely to happen again regardless of whether it should or not.

* Cuts to social welfare - Too many people out of work to cut this.

this one worries me the most. The amount of people on the 350 a week who will fight tooth and nail for the government not to drop them back to 203 a week will be quite a lot. Its the exact thing the shinners would jump on and try bankrupt us even further.

piplip87 · 12-04-2020 6:41pm

Be a great opportunity to introduce some decent changes to welfare policy. If your recieving a jobseekers payment for more than 12 months without effort to retrain then here is a few Tesco vouchers for you, they cannot be transferred or they cannot buy fags or booze. Here is a 20 quid ESB metre card. Make it do you......

That would certainly save a few quid.

Skylinehead · 12-04-2020 6:42pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

was I supposed to read that in the jebidiah Springfield museum guys voice, because I did and all I can say is

1) wheres the fife
2) gimme the fife

At least it's only for three months :pac:

brickster69 · 12-04-2020 6:42pm

arctictree wrote: »

So we are just going to heap it on the national debt? God help us if interest rates rise.

No chance of that, a good chance they will fall more though. Problem with that is it will **** the banks up even more, so they will get the cash first.

Rinse and repeat.

pure.conya · 12-04-2020 6:43pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Varadkar has pledged no income tax increases to fund this, which means he's planning to introduce another tax or increase USC.

How much is this all expected to cost by the end and more importantly who will be hit to pay for it and how ?

It will cost a fortune, and we'll pay for it as quick as we paid for the banks and unsecured bondholders since 2008/9, if we continue to be lazy apathetic idiots that refuse to stand up for ourselves

Eric Cartman · 12-04-2020 6:44pm

piplip87 wrote: »

Be a great opportunity to introduce some decent changes to welfare policy. If your recieving a jobseekers payment for more than 12 months without effort to retrain then here is a few Tesco vouchers for you, they cannot be transferred or they cannot buy fags or booze. Here is a 20 quid ESB metre card. Make it do you......

That would certainly save a few quid.

the one saving grace right now for me is knowing they can't use it for holidays, tanning beds, the bookies, pubs , buying loads of non essentials and drug dealers are finding it hard to re stock.

L1011 · 12-04-2020 6:45pm

piplip87 wrote: »

Be a great opportunity to introduce some decent changes to welfare policy. If your recieving a jobseekers payment for more than 12 months without effort to retrain then here is a few Tesco vouchers for you, they cannot be transferred or they cannot buy fags or booze. Here is a 20 quid ESB metre card. Make it do you......

That would certainly save a few quid.

Plenty of countries have welfare debit cards. People still get smokes/drink/drugs with them in every single one of them.

Dodgy retailers, or buy stuff to sell.

diggerdigger · 12-04-2020 6:49pm

We are about to go on a global money printing exercise, the GFC QE programs won't get a look in for scale. Developing nations will get debt forgiveness. Inflation, inflation, inflation, to lift all boats.

It'll work for 10 years and end in tears. I think mainly because I don't trust all the central banks to get it calibrated and scaled right.

Thelonious Monk · 12-04-2020 7:03pm

piplip87 wrote: »

Be a great opportunity to introduce some decent changes to welfare policy. If your recieving a jobseekers payment for more than 12 months without effort to retrain then here is a few Tesco vouchers for you, they cannot be transferred or they cannot buy fags or booze. Here is a 20 quid ESB metre card. Make it do you......

That would certainly save a few quid.

That would make their children even more impoverished and continue the cycle though

wyndhurst · 12-04-2020 7:05pm

My simple view....

This episode will cost the state €20bn.
We will borrow this money (via bonds). This has already commenced last week via NTMA raising €6bn from the sale of a new 7-year benchmark treasury bond at a yield of 0.242% (fantastic deal! & by the way there was an order book of €33bn from 250 potential investors!)

This means that our national debt will increase from €220bn to €240bn, however, due to falling interest rates and great refinancing deals, the cost of servicing this increased national debt will actually be less that what the state was paying in 2018 - 2019.

The real challenge to the state is how long it is going to take for the economy to recover and hence what spending plans will be delayed while the income levels recover. I predict a full 2 yrs for this recovery.

amacca · 12-04-2020 7:07pm

diggerdigger wrote: »

We are about to go on a global money printing exercise, the GFC QE programs won't get a look in for scale. Developing nations will get debt forgiveness. Inflation, inflation, inflation, to lift all boats.

It'll work for 10 years and end in tears. I think mainly because I don't trust all the central banks to get it calibrated and scaled right.

Sort of a modern day global version of the roaring 20s followed by a great depression eh....they do say history repeats itself

peasant · 12-04-2020 7:10pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

this one worries me the most. The amount of people on the 350 a week who will fight tooth and nail for the government not to drop them back to 203 a week will be quite a lot. Its the exact thing the shinners would jump on and try bankrupt us even further.

Might this be a good time for a universal basic income?
Threefiddy a week for everybody?

Before you reach for your heart medicine...bear with me ...

Other than the few professional scroungers that you get everywhere and all the time no matter what, most people actually would like to work. But what's keeping a lot of them of doing any job at all is that it doesn't pay enough and that they risk their welfare money.

But in this post-virus economy, I predict that there will be loads and loads of jobs on almost all skill levels that will be part-time, short term, weird hours,etc because the economy has changed, social distancing needs to be done, demand fluctuates, recurring lockdowns...whatever.
Basically, the classic 9-5, 40h per week job will be pretty much gone and there will be a need for much more flexibility.
In order for people to be able to offer that flexibility, they will need an assured income so that they can afford to work when they are needed and stay at home when they aren't.

There will have to be more local start-ups and small, part time businesses to make up for what we're gonna lose in globalised business ...again needing part-time, on-off workers.

The more i think about it, a basic income sounds like a must have

Idbatterim · 12-04-2020 7:22pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

There is no scope to increase income tax and USC, given the government promised but failed to this the last 7 years. However, spending has increased hugley the past few years, particularly with respect to welfare and this should be low hanging fruit in the first instance. Other measures such as a more meaningful property tax combined with large scale housebuilding and purchasing assistance will kill two birds with one stone; providing desperately needed housing and revenue for the State.

absolutely, I say this relentlessly here and for years, they are MORONS! Every budget, instead of being prudent, is mainly, how many hundreds of millions will we throw at welfare. Agreed about LPT, the rate its at is a farce. No point touching water charges again. I would prefer a council tax, every adult pays it, no exemptions... No more free gp visits for those with medical cards. I proposed all of this months ago, there needs to be a several euro swing, from the working an particularly the working broke. from those paying for nothing... guaranteed income paid by you and I every week. No more free transport, this kind of lunacy. As if we were an oil rich gulf state, no we arent that, we are a country where this sheer lunacy is paid for by those earning over the pittance of E35k as if they were the wolf of wall street, when in reality many can barely keep the world from the door. free rooof over the head, free medical card, whatever welfare scams many of them have going on. When I see how stretched and stressed many hard workers here are, my tolerance for the bull**** and excuses here, ended a long time ago!

the entire lot, go futher, RTE can do one! Licensce fee gone, they will start problem solving, like a private company does, when its that or the shark tank...

Idbatterim · 12-04-2020 7:26pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Varadkar has pledged no income tax increases to fund this, which means he's planning to introduce another tax or increase USC.

How much is this all expected to cost by the end and more importantly who will be hit to pay for it and how ?

maraget cash and co will pay for it all... sure on her 80k gross, she is far better off, than many still in employment :rolleyes:

PowerToWait · 12-04-2020 7:41pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

In theory china should pay for the lot , but we all know that won't happen. I would personally be a fan of cutting government spending. End the quangos, tell the double job civil servants to go home, break the union controls on our civil service and utilise the new working from home systems to cut costs and decentralise some staff.

I note you were careful to not use 'public' service. But you realise the civil service, alongside public servants, are the ones digging us out of this, bit by bit as best they can.

I don't hear much about Dennis O'Brien, or Michael O'Leary or any of the other billionaire tycoons who are eulogised by free marketeers who want to dismantle the public and civil service.

Eric Cartman · 12-04-2020 7:50pm

PowerToWait wrote: »

I note you were careful to not use 'public' service. But you realise the civil service, alongside public servants, are the ones digging us out of this, bit by bit as best they can.

I don't hear much about Dennis O'Brien, or Michael O'Leary or any of the other billionaire tycoons who are eulogised by free marketeers who want to dismantle the public and civil service.

Ahh the aul hide middle manager Maura and her union behind the nurses and doctors defence. Nobody is talking about sacking frontline civil servants, but its a top heavy system with too many layers.

and then we have the Irish boogeyman DOB mentioned too..

Michael O Leary is taking much more of a hit than most during this.

Ha Long Bay · 12-04-2020 7:58pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

maraget cash and co will pay for it all... sure on her 80k gross, she is far better off, than many still in employment :rolleyes:

Good to see she is spending it sensibly and following social distancing guidelines.

Kivaro · 12-04-2020 8:02pm

If it lasts longer than 3 months .....
If Trump incentivizes the major US companies based in Ireland back to the States .....
If we do not reign in the social welfare bill across the board, as that expense is not sustainable even in good times .....
If we have a global depression versus a global recession .......

Lots of 'ifs'. We are looking at least €5 billion in the next three months for welfare supports. Bank of Ireland is saying it will cost us €30 billion overall.
However it could cost us a lot more if any of the 'ifs' above kicks in.
We need to be cognizant that our children and grandchildren will be picking up the tab for most of this, so we need to be prudent (fiscally responsible) on what we are spending their money on in the coming months/years.

12-04-2020 8:05pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

was I supposed to read that in the jebidiah Springfield museum guys voice, because I did and all I can say is

1) wheres the fife
2) gimme the fife

You don't know Donald Sutherland?

Blueshoe · 12-04-2020 8:08pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

maraget cash and co will pay for it all... sure on her 80k gross, she is far better off, than many still in employment :rolleyes:

It's 50k when added up actually

rajqo · 12-04-2020 8:09pm

I recommend to check out this website..

usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

Ireland has at the moment 87.23% public debt to gdp ratio

it's just a matter of time when it will be 100% and more... the only positive that it's affecting basically every single country so we are all in this together and every country's GDP is getting lower and debt getting higher.

If governments could still print money and people would accept it, then nothing else will happen this time again and we just add a few more numbers to the world debt....

CageWager · 12-04-2020 8:09pm

It’ll be paid for by “the rich”.. i.e some lad on €75k per year bursting his hole to prop up the welfare state so jacinta can maintain her “rights” while he pays through the bollix for the most expensive mortgage in Europe at a time when banks can borrow at zero %. Not to mention he keeps the health/car/home insurance cartel in business because god forbid Aviva shareholders take a down quarter. Im angry.

listermint · 12-04-2020 8:11pm

Libertarians out in force again then.

Same people who have hacked the NHS to death in the UK and allowed the market to solve the problem in the US.

Sure it's only good to socialize your investments I suppose. Ye people are a parody .

listermint · 12-04-2020 8:13pm

rajqo wrote: »

I recommend to check out this website..

usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

Ireland has at the moment 87.23% public debt to gdp ratio

it's just a matter of time when it will be 100% and more... the only positive that it's affecting basically every single country so we are all in this together and every country's GDP is getting lower and debt getting higher.

If governments could still print money and people would accept it, then nothing else will happen this time again and we just add a few more numbers to the world debt....

That's odd because it was 63.4% in 2018.

Can you explain the massive jump because you know it seems your source might be questionable

SEPT 23 1989 · 12-04-2020 8:14pm

I am no left winger but they better not try and charge us a cent for this

They pulled the stunt of "you all partied" in 2008 which stunted a whole section to not revolt because we "partied" a little

Not this time

No excuses

Mr. teddywinkles · 12-04-2020 8:15pm

Well if China benefit from this they can fook right off with extra tax and misery in general.

listermint · 12-04-2020 8:15pm

CageWager wrote: »

It’ll be paid for by “the rich”.. i.e some lad on €75k per year bursting his hole to prop up the welfare state so jacinta can maintain her “rights” while he pays through the bollix for the most expensive mortgage in Europe at a time when banks can borrow at zero %. Not to mention he keeps the health/car/home insurance cartel in business because god forbid Aviva shareholders take a down quarter. Im angry.

That old adage.... Lol.

Jacinta is actually the people in the middle. The same folks who are being ripped by expensive child care and barely make mortgage payments. Your lad isn't real.

Hoffmans · 12-04-2020 8:15pm

Bank bail in is on the cards ðŸ˜‰

Idbatterim · 12-04-2020 8:15pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I am no left winger but they better not try and charge us a cent for this

They pulled the stunt of "you all partied" in 2008 which stunted a whole section to not revolt because we "partied" a little

Not this time

No excuses

They can do one on increased employment taxes!

How much is this all going to cost and who will pay for it ?

Comments